Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:15:14 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> Cc: Darren Pilgrim <dpilgrim@uswest.net>, George Halek <bsdlist@cr343877-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com>, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which mailing list? (was: handling posting errors [was: Disk geometry question.]) Message-ID: <19990403201514.32339@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <19990403190636.F2142@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 07:06:36PM %2B0930 References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990402112542.281B-100000@cr343877-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com> <37055859.E945BB40@uswest.net> <19990403151145.59606@welearn.com.au> <3705C8A9.747F784D@uswest.net> <19990403185229.63533@welearn.com.au> <3705DCB1.640B948D@uswest.net> <19990403190636.F2142@lemis.com>
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On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 07:06:36PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 1:17:37 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote:
> > Sue Blake wrote:
> >> If you are able and willing to answer support questions, your interest
> >> in newbies will be most valuable in freebsd-questions. We need more
> >> newbies to be seen asking questions there and to be seen getting
> >> answers, since it is supposed to support the _whole_ user community.
> >
> > I do answer questions in -questions, and I often answer the ones that
> > no one else seems willing to answer because they're considered "stupid
> > newbie questions" by people who seem to have forgotten what it's like
> > to be a newbie.
>
> This is an assumption on your part. More likely they don't know the
> answer, or they assume that somebody else will answer.
Aah, yes, I see it now. I bet some newbies see a simple question
unanswered there and assume that nobody can bother with newbies
questions, which of course is not the case.
When I see a typical newbie question go unanswered, I used to send
personal email offering help, until I realised that that's robbing
everyone else of the solution. Now I send private email asking whether
or not they've got an answer yet but I don't try to answer off the
list. Then I can, for example, suggest other details that could be
presented to make it an easier question to answer.
Often they say that someone _else_ has helped them privately and spent
a great deal of time doing it too. (I just hope it's always someone who
really knows their stuff.) With so many people watching -questions I
guess this is bound to happen occasionally. Unfortunately the
appearance is the opposite of what's actually going on.
> > My day job involves helping people solve problems and find answers
> > and every day I hear them ask me what I used to ask, see them have
> > trouble with things I used to worry over. I see myself in them and
> > for that reason I take the time to help them. I just wish the
> > tribal elders would clue into the fact that they're denying others
> > the things that they take for granted.
>
> I'm not sure I understand who you're referring to here. Care to
> explain? Certainly the "tribal elders", whoever they may be, are not
> denying people anything.
:-) Oh, I sure know what he means! I'm not going to name names, but
occasionally some new cowboy goes tripping into freebsd-questions and
tries to raise his status by putting down the status of others. They
see newbies as easy pickings, probably a bad habit picked up elsewhere
because the names of these people weren't around before they suddenly
appear with their put-downs. It doesn't happen on the freebsd lists
anywhere near as much as it does elsewhere, and when it does they get
to contend with some pretty stern words in private mail that usually
makes them stop or at least deflate a little. You've seen it happen in
-questions occasionally, but the juiciest bits happen off the list :-)
> If you're referring to Sue, she's doing a good job in trying to
> differentiate between a mailing list for newbies to discuss their
> attitude to FreeBSD (newbies) and a mailing list for newbies (and
> everybody else) to ask moderately technical questions (-questions).
Thank you! Times like this I feel like everyone's worst enemy.
> As part of the bargain, those who regularly answer
> questions in -questions have agreed not to answer questions in
> -newbies. This is all in the charter, and it has the benefit that the
> lurkers in -questions get to see the answers. It also helps ensure
> that people don't get too many wrong answers.
>
> >> If you feel sufficiently familiar with the list charters to gently guide
> >> newbies to the appropriate use of the lists, don't let anyone make you
> >> feel bad because of _their_ misunderstandings.
> >
> > But I'm human, not a sterile man page or a printed manual, it hurts
> > everytime I get shot down for trying to help out.
>
> Nobody's shooting you down for helping out. You said yourself that
> you answer questions in -questions, and that's the right thing to do.
> The only thing that Sue was asking you to do was to adhere to the
> conventions.
Yeah Greg, I think he understands that. He was just having a final
little whinge, which *is* specifically allowed here :-) In fact, you're
probably a bit put out yourself when faced with the negativity you
sometimes get as the only thanks for helping out. You just don't steam
up easy like some of us do, or you release it away from the keyboard.
While you're here, thanks for being so willing to treat newbies just
like everyone else in -questions. Sometimes when I refer new people to
-questions they have emailed me later saying how impressed they were
with your support.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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