From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 20:34:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3888016A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3761943D6D for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0F4NHAS075795; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0F4NHjC075794; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:17 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Message-ID: <20040114202317.A75531@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net>; from fullermd@over-yonder.net on Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:26:55PM -0600 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:34:01 -0000 nice work Matt! thanks ;) cheers, -matt On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:26:55PM -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > [ Combined a few responses since they overlap mostly ] > > Peter / David, > > > 1) Adjust the color scheme. It makes it somewhat > > difficult to read though the site. > > In the time my page has been up with that color scheme, most people have > really liked it. However, there's always been a sizable minority who > really dislike it, and a number who just can't deal with it at all. So, > I've always had it on my "someday" list to go ahead and put together a > few alternate stylesheets. And this is as good an excuse as any. > > So, if you'll look at the bottom of the navbar, there's a selector for a > few alternate color schemes. Hopefully, one of them should be a little > less painful for you. > > > > 3) The connection is very, very slow. > > While the connection isn't exactly a speed demon, the pages are pretty > light. Once in a while, though, it does just drop out for a few minutes; > you may have hit it over that. > > > > 4) Deeper coverage on packages vs. ports with emphasis > > to portupgrade. > > These are the sort of things I was intentionally avoiding. There's lots > of resources on the Hows; my feeling is that when you don't understand > the Whys, you'll have a hard time finding the Hows, and a harder time > understanding them when you DO find them. I want to try and delineate > the Whys, with just enough How to demonstrate them. > > If I tried to do both, it would be even LONGER. Nobody wants that :) > > > > 5) Remove "Chaos vs. Order". Your slamming a > > development model. Both models have merit (compare and > > contrast). > > I wasn't slamming it. The Linux model practically requires, just by its > very construction, an abundance of chaos. That's not necessarily _BAD_, > and I didn't intend for it to be taken as pejorative. I've added a > comment making it a bit more explicit. > > Y'see, this is why I hate this kind of writing. Sooner or later, someone > [not directed at you, but just in general] is going to come up with > "That's not always true" or "That doesn't mean we're wrong" or so on. > How many times do I have to write "These are all generalizations riddled > with exceptions, and when I say 'X is Y' that doesn't imply a value > judgement" in one essay?! > > > > 6) Remove the ego. IE: "BSD users are a bunch of > > elitist self-centered rude snobs." Yup. And proud of > > it. " > > That's supposed to be irony, not ego. Smiley added to clarify. > > I've always been a bit uncomfortable with that section anyway. How do > you prove or disprove a charge of "elitism"? It's either going to be > both sides handwaving and saying "It seems to me", or you're going to > pull out some kind of bizarre statistic. Pretty icky either way. > > I've gone through and done some reworking and clarification in it, and > added a bit more. > > > > One other thought, how about bumping up the Philosophy > > and myths up towards the top and dispel some of the > > preconceived notions about BSD. > > I messed a lot with the ordering of the pieces (the "Design" and > "Technical" sections, particularly, flip-flopped at least a half dozen > times). I think making those moves (to me) makes it not flow quite as > well, since you're trying to understand the really abstract before the > concrete. > > However, it is intentional in my rants that they be at least somewhat > random-access. I've written it to be read all the way through, but with > an eye toward keeping it usable by picking out pieces. That's one reason > I have the indexes everywhere (that, and I *HATE* sites with multi-page > articles, that don't provide indexes, or only in special places). It's > not perfect, but it gives a little flexibility. > > > > PS: don't forget to mention that their is ~10,000 > > prog's in the ports collection. A huge bonus. > > Well, shoot; I thought I put that in there! I sprinkled a few mentions > in the Program Availability myth section; it seems the best place for it > to have an impact. > > > > 2) It is very critical of Linux users. > > 3) Remove personal bias > > 2) It is way too condescending towards Linux and Linux users. > > 7) Most important; be objective. > > This is the hardest one, because so much of its interpretation is > subjective. Some parts of the essay WERE, in fact, written after I'd > just spent 12 hours wrestling with something that should have taken about > 10 minutes, but didn't because of the way the [Linux] system was put > together. I hate RPMs (and all binary packages for that matter) with a > passion that knows no bounds. > > I think it's impossible to write anything like this, and avoid making any > value judgements anywhere. I try to make it obvious and severable where > I AM doing so, and to never do it unwittingly. I went over the whole > thing, both piecemeal and as a whole, many times before I stuck it up on > the web. However, when you read anything (particularly your own writing) > that many times, you get so used to it and so sick of it that you WILL > miss those sort of things. > > With some more distance, I've gone through it again and fiddled with a > lot of wording and added some clarifications. I'd appreciate any > pointers to specific sections that you still find particularly egregious > in those ways. > > > > I applaud your work in the advocacy of *BSD. Please do > > not the above statements in a negative way. You do > > have great foundation to the site. I like the lay out > > and the index. > > I take it as constructive criticism (which I _hope_ is in the spirit it's > intended :). I know a lot about me; particularly, I know that I hate > criticism and get very defensive and stubborn about it. I s'pose it's > probably some sort of character flaw or something. Still, I try. > > > I hope some of the changes I've made help cover your concerns. Please, > if you can, go through it again and see if it works better for you, and > if (as above in the 'bias' section) there's anything you could > specifically point me at. > > > Thanks loads, guys. > > > -- > Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net > Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ > > "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I > haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain