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Date:      Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:32:31 -0600
From:      "Josh Paetzel" <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>
To:        "Seth" <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>, "Jordan Hubbard" <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com>
Cc:        "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <akm@mail.theinternet.com.au>, "Kent Stewart" <kstewart@urx.com>, <mij@osdn.com>, <freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Web page suggestion 
Message-ID:  <007301c096f7$a181c9e0$6100000a@vladsempire.net>
References:  <85731.982130477@winston.osd.bsdi.com>

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Hubbard" <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com>
To: "Seth" <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>
Cc: "Josh Paetzel" <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>; "Andrew Kenneth Milton"
<akm@mail.theinternet.com.au>; "Kent Stewart" <kstewart@urx.com>;
<mij@osdn.com>; <freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Web page suggestion


> Hmmmm.
>
> I think some people here are arguing from such false premises that
> it'd be truly impossible to "win" either side of the debate in
> FreeBSD's favor.
>

Not arguing, just stating my opinion, which was asked for, IIRC.

> Sure, there are people who come to FreeBSD with highly unrealistic
> expectations which are then shattered, causing grief both to them
and
> to the people they dump on.  There are also developers with limited
> time and journalists doing press evaluations who can't spend all day
> learning how to install FreeBSD.  These are valid data points on
both
> sides of the "easy of use, ease of installation" argument and since
> you can't please both sides, the best you can do is please yourself.
>

I guess my point is that there are a lot of things that we could be
working on.  The question then becomes, what should we work on?  This
is a volunteer project, and everyone who helps out, whether on the doc
project, on the -questions mailing list, or writing kernel code does
this out of their own generosity.  Keeping that in mind, I don't think
that anyone is in a position to really tell a volunteer what to do.
You take what you can get, and let people contribute where their
strengths are.  I guess I was looking deeper at the question than
just, "Should we alter the webpage to make it easier for people to get
to the installation instructions?"  I started thinking about what
direction the SS FreeBSD heading.  Are we ready to try and make
FreeBSD available to the masses?  Do we have the support
infrastructure in place?  Personally, I don't know if we do.  To bring
up an old topic that has been kicked around for at least a year or
two, and possibly longer, let's use the "graphical installer" as an
example.  We have talked about having a GUI installer for a long time,
but that's all that it's ever been.  Talk.  If ease of use has become
a priority, I guess I would like to know about it.  That's all.
Personally, I would rather not redirect effort from the current
projects to "ease of use" issues.  From my standpoint as a user, I
don't really care if the media knows what FreeBSD is  and I don't care
if my 95 year old deaf and blind Grandma can't install it.  I am
anxious to have a 5.0-STABLE machine, though.  I've got a bunch of SMP
boxes here that are just crying for it.

Sorry if I read more into the question than was there.

Josh


> I obviously can't speak for what pleases all of you, but some of the
> things which please me are those which represent the very best
> examples of their art.  A virtual memory subsystem is an intricate
and
> non-trivial piece of technology which is best evaluated on its
> performance and elegance of design, even though that might not be
> immediately comprehensible at a glance.  A web page which serves as
> the general public "portal" for FreeBSD, on the other hand, should
be
> evaluated on ease of comprehension and sheer usefulness for the
> greatest percentage of its viewing public.  It would obviously be
> foolish to judge one objective by the standards of the other, yet I
> see that kind of thing all the time.
>
> We need to simply do the best job we can in *every* category and
> assume that any problems which might arise as a consequence of doing
> too good a job can and will be dealt with when the time comes.  If
we
> do a bad job at something, it's still a bad job no matter what the
> justification and we'll never know just how much better we would
have
> done had it been done properly.
>
> - Jordan
>



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