From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 16:58:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3621065672 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:58:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pw0-f54.google.com (mail-pw0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3A28FC14 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:58:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbdx13 with SMTP id x13so2761640pbd.13 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:58:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=nlHsQ09G281w4wrVlpNFOkM34v3byfWkmKHOohsxIeo=; b=fEhB660Lvmb+1gZeEbCRpw3Ovteh6zFSboVzTr0XT4BLGJaESB2XG3YW8pEQJscVcH dk+DFKvsf0MbgYwxQeVGoQvuQtvRCq/y54U9soOKXNEXdUVVyRiLaZmR7xaHLOElPTXz azwl8x0S3Sv7c/elI7E2AGXUpQvnBsBz/XMvo= Received: by 10.68.190.101 with SMTP id gp5mr35710473pbc.31.1326819536114; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:58:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mozolevsky@gmail.com Received: by 10.68.28.199 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:58:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1326756727.23485.10.camel@Arawn> <4F14BAA7.9070707@freebsd.org> <20120117010239.GA29529@richh-imac.office.boxdice.com.au> From: Igor Mozolevsky Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:58:15 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zfPPGafkIxr0tTUrUXqrJKTxpQk Message-ID: To: Freddie Cash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:58:56 -0000 On 17 January 2012 16:48, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Igor Mozolevsky wrote: >> Actually, I don't think it's cash that's the problem. I think it is >> more to do with the lack of common goal: the way that releases are >> perceived, at least by me, are that a bunch of people "play" in >> current then at some point someone decides to take a "cut" of the >> current branch and call it a release then work toward making that >> "release" passable as stable. To illustrate that, I cannot find >> anywhere on the .org website what core@ see the desirable features of >> 10.0 to be, or what the committers are working toward. > > That would be because, with the multi-year debacle that 5.0-RELEASE > became while they worked on the "features list for 5.0" (primarily > SMPng), the FreeBSD Project has moved away from features-based > releases and to time-based releases (although the exact timelines are > not carved in stone). > > You won't find a list of features for the next release of FreeBSD. > You'll just find a list of things that people are working on that may > or may not be ready in time for the next release. > > The development is much closer to Ubuntu (release whatever is ready > every 6 months) than to Debian (release everything when it's ready, > even if it takes 2, 3, 4+ years to make it ready, while the current > release grows stale). And this is the ridiculous "bazaar" situation that I was criticising. In contrast to Ubuntu, or other distribution on top of Linux, FreeBSD is a "whole" system. Even Ubuntu and such, take a "collection" of projects that have been developed with certain measurable goals. Yes, Ubuntu appears to be date-oriented distribution, but the software that Ubuntu incorporate into their releases is feature- and goal- oriented. FreeBSD, it seems, as I have pointed out, have no measurable goals within the project itself other than "whatever looks like it has a potential to work on date X" is going to be in our release. How can this be even considered to be serious?.. No serious manufacturer/producer says "throw things in a mix and we'll stick to whatever passes as passable by date X"... -- Igor M. :-)