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Date:      Sun, 6 Oct 2019 11:55:10 +0100
From:      Bob Bishop <rb@gid.co.uk>
To:        Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Cy Schubert <Cy.schubert@cschubert.com>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org>
Subject:   Re: New CPUTYPE default for i386 port
Message-ID:  <EDBB2851-24FC-446E-B686-2F3D18787551@gid.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <20f9896361c341736c5154c010cedf3fdcffc235.camel@freebsd.org>
References:  <CANCZdfoFPsjyuCTfm0dQhz%2BsgVHLEvMA8-E3-Yhciz67qdoKvw@mail.gmail.com> <20191005173411.l6gs3kszs7zcgfey@mutt-hbsd> <CANCZdfo6=r7BaGA8qKYSR9ba=azzxD%2ByDkN4aO87Oj1Qr9TKmA@mail.gmail.com> <06E29438-732D-4045-8FB3-5F2A082E9B98@cschubert.com> <20f9896361c341736c5154c010cedf3fdcffc235.camel@freebsd.org>

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> On 5 Oct 2019, at 23:50, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote:
>=20
> On Sat, 2019-10-05 at 14:20 -0700, Cy Schubert wrote:
>> On October 5, 2019 11:19:41 AM PDT, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, 11:34 AM Shawn Webb <
>>> shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 09:28:53AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
>>>>>=20
> [...]
>>>> I'm curious about the possibilities regarding 64-bit time_t on
>>>> 32-bit
>>>> Intel systems.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Beyond the scope of this discussion. However, feel free to start a
>>> thread on this. It's quite difficult to switch if you want binary
>>> compat. It would affect system calls on the upgrade path and is
>>> among the hardest types to change if you have any kind of legacy to
>>> support...
>>>=20
>>> Warner
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>> This is one of the two reasons I believe we should deprecate 32-bit.
>> Even supporting 32-bit compatibility long term is unsustainable. It
>> is not worth the effort.
>>=20
>> Putting a stake in the ground to say we no longer support 32-bit
>> after 2038 would be desirable. (Sooner the better though.)
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> Only i386 has a 32-bit time_t.  Other 32-bit arches either began life
> with 64-bit time_t or have been switched to it.
>=20
> For i386, if its current users (and I am one, for $work) have a choice
> between "As of date X there will be no more i386" and "As of date X we
> switch time_t to 64 bits and you will not be able to run old binaries
> after that" I suspect people would choose the latter.
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Ian

Obvious casualties of total i386 deprecation would be Soekris 45xx (AMD =
Elan (i486)) and 55xx (AMD Geode (i586)), we have small numbers of those =
running recent HEAD. We are only still using them because they are more =
or less indestructible (especially compared with a lot of the ARM-based =
offerings). I don=E2=80=99t think we=E2=80=99d complain if i386 support =
ceased on a reasonable timescale.

--
Bob Bishop
rb@gid.co.uk







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