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Date:      Wed, 7 Nov 2001 23:37:04 -0800
From:      "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To:        "Erik Trulsson" <ertr1013@student.uu.se>, "Anthony Atkielski" <anthony@atkielski.com>
Cc:        "FreeBSD Questions" <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   RE: Lockdown of FreeBSD machine directly on Net
Message-ID:  <004301c16828$2942aaa0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20011107154930.A7915@student.uu.se>

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Erik Trulsson
>Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 6:50 AM
>To: Anthony Atkielski
>Cc: FreeBSD Questions
>Subject: Re: Lockdown of FreeBSD machine directly on Net
>
>To get 100% security you also need to protect yourself against attacks
>such as:
>

[list deleted]


The biggest thing you missed there is collusion between employees, the
classic "inside job".  This will defeat any security system.  The only
problem with it is that most of these conspiracies end when the
participants get too greedy and start fighting with each other over
dividing up the spoils.

>  In other words, the
>> system is completely secure in this context through computational
>feasibility,
>> and you can make it theoretically 100% secure as well by
>installing a lockout
>> after a certain number of bad password attempts.
>

Just a few comments on the telnet security scenario.

The biggest problem I see here is that both of you are assuming that the
goal of the cracker is to get into the system.  Your forgetting that if
the goal of the cracker is to damage the system without getting in, then
they don't need to guess the right password to cause problems.  Let me
explain.

There's 4 main problems with depending on simple password-protected logins:

1) Setting up a lockout allows an attacker to DoS the system and prevent
others from logging on (or make it very difficult) because the system is
always in lockout, or has so many login processes going in lockout (think
multiple simultaneous attempts here).

2) The 5 login attempts per second assumes _serial_ attacks, one after
another.  Consider a theoretical attempt on a cluster of systems, like 10
webservers.  If the admin uses the same password on all members of the
system (a not unreasonable assumption to make) and the attackers can run
100 simultaneous login attempts on each system, you can see that
they can break the linear search up into 1000 sections (ie: a-d, e-i, j-n,
etc.)
which greately increases chances of finding a match.

3)  It's very hard to get good randomness when creating passwords.  If the
cracker finds out how the "randomly determined" password is created, then
they can greatly narrow the parameters for a brute-force search.

4) Humans usually pick poor passwords.  Organizing the attack with a
dictionary
crack first, followed by a naming dictionary second, etc. can greatly increase
chances of finding a match.



Ted Mittelstaedt                                       tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:                           The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:                          http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



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