Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:05:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Sean Eric Fagan <sef@Kithrup.COM> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft brainrot (was: r-cmds and DNS and /etc/host.conf) Message-ID: <19970928160530.00335@lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <199709280254.TAA20632@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Sat, Sep 27, 1997 at 07:54:33PM -0700 References: <199709272127.OAA11524@usr08.primenet.com>; <19970928101941.03210.kithrup.freebsd.chat@lemis.com> <199709280254.TAA20632@kithrup.com>
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On Sat, Sep 27, 1997 at 07:54:33PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote:
>>> If you make it grammar-based, you write it once, and it works for a
>>> crudload of command line configurators that know how to be run over
>>> pipes. Like disk partition tools, install tools, etc..
>> Correct. But why?
>
> I dunno 'bout you, but I hate having to partition drives using 'disklabel
> -e'. Fortunately, I don't add new drives all that often, and it can be done
> now using /stand/sysinstall.
Agreed. This is a different case, however:
1. It's a thing that requires relatively little data, but it's
difficult to get: you can't just write it down, you need to
calculate it.
2. The alternative to sysinstall is a collection of tools which can't
agree with each other about the geometry of most disks. I haven't
even been able to determine which is most often right.
DNS is a different matter. I don't see how you can change the fact
that there's a lot of repetitive information in there. If you have
100 systems, and you have to change the IP address, your choices are:
1. With a GUI, I contend that you have to go in and change each one
individually. Sure, it's possible to write a GUI which will
handle this example, but each such example has to be programmed
individually.
2. With the current config file mechanism, you just go in with an
editor and do a block change.
>> How do you find out your configuration with this horrible,
>> complicated, you-only-see-as-much-at-a-time-as-I-want-to-show-
>> you-and-make-sure-you-keep-alternating-from-keyboard-to-mouse Motif
>> application once you have entered your initial configuration?
>
> "The experienced user will know what to do."
I hope you noticed I was talking about the GUI :-)
> Having a simple "create a standardized named.boot, <domain>.zone, and
> <network>.rev file" shell script, which would ask a couple of questions,
> would suffice in Terry's case. Of course, he could write that shell script
> pretty easily, and submit it. Except, of course, that people have this
> tendency to just reject anything Terry says *because* it's from Terry :).
I don't think that's fair. On the whole, I tend to agree with Terry
(this case being an obvious exception). But, as somebody commented a
while back, we don't often see finished code from him.
>> Wrong on both counts. 99.99% of the computer users in the world don't
>> understand the question -- which is why they are MS users instead of
>> UNIX. In fact, I'm very surprised to find you defending this
>> position.
>
> And if 99.99% of the computer users can't understand the question, what
> makes you think they'll want to fiddle with the bits that the GUI program
> doesn't allow them to?
Nothing. In fact, I'd guess that, despite the GUI, they'll screw up
the configuration and run on regardless.
>> Then why don't you do it and import the configuration to your UNIX
>> box? I'd like to see it, if only to pick holes in it. How do you set
>> up a HINFO RR? An ISDN RR?
>
> Most people don't need to set up an ISDN RR. I don't even know what that
> is. I certainly don't have one.
I'd guess that you have that in common with most people. But if you
wanted one, how would you do it with a GUI developed by somebody who
also didn't know what they were?
> Few people seem to bother setting up an HINFO RR these days. I don't, I
> think. But it's certainly easy enough to set up.
Sure. With an editor. How do you do it with a GUI if the author
hasn't provided for it.
> Of coruse, since Paul wants to have BIND handle arbitrary resource records,
> it's unlikely that any front-end interface is going to be able to handle all
> cases.
>
> That doesn't invalidate Terry's point.
>
> Replies sent to me and the list will be returned to the sender -- learn to
> edit your headers.
OK, go ahead. I consider it courtesy to mention the person I'm
replying to directly. And I don't have a GUI thingamabob to edit the
headers :-)
Greg
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