From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 4 18:47:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9B216A41B; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:47:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.netplex.net (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F7913C4D3; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:47:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.netplex.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id m14Il4m1009185; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:47:04 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.netplex.net) X-Greylist: Message whitelisted by DRAC access database, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.10]); Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:47:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:47:04 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86abmgd4gl.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <861w7um5o5.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080203162918.GK57756@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <20080203121112.426a8c25@kan.dnsalias.net> <86zlugeqaz.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86r6fsd55s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86abmgd4gl.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-559023410-758783491-1202150824=:14537" Cc: Kostik Belousov , threads@freebsd.org, Peter Wemm , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Symbol versioning errors in libthr X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Eischen List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:47:08 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---559023410-758783491-1202150824=:14537 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hey, just because I'm ugly, hairy, and my knuckles scrape on the ground is no reason to call me a monkey ;-) On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > Daniel Eischen writes: >> Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: >>> (unless you can show that it's actually harmful in some way?) >> Please do not bump private, it was never meant to be bumped like this. > > This is not substantiation, this is the old monkey telling the young > monkey "this is the way it's always been done". > > With all due respect to the old monkey, the young monkey simply can't > understand why FBSD and FBSDprivate should be assymetric. Linux doesn't even have a version for GLIBC_PRIVATE. If we take the same approach to FBSDprivate as we do FBSD, then there is no need at all for FBSDprivate. We don't want to add compatibility hacks for anything in FBSDprivate (that is the purpose of having private in the first place), so if you start bumping private then you should also start adding compat hacks - otherwise you have to edit old private versions to remove (duplicate) symbols. FBSDprivate is to allow us to change our internal ABIs without really managing them - at least on the same level as the public namespace. If somehow something sneaks into private that needs to be publicized, we are free to bump private, but the goal is to not allow that to happen. We've come from -current and previous releases where there was no versioning at all, and have always managed. Yes, with some pain. But I cannot forsee how using FBSDprivate in the way we've designed it for (yes, it was reviewed) is somehow going to make the sky fall one day. And if there is a problem, that is why we have -current. We can iron it out there, and bump private if it ever becomes necessary. But we don't want to create more of a headache by maintaining different versions of private symbols - the private namespace allows us to add, remove, and change ABIs almost "willy nilly" without burdoning ourselves. This seems to be how it is done on both Solaris and Linux, if you want an example of prior art. > The young monkey would also like the old monkey to explain to him what > harm will come of this (the young monkey has asked this already, but the > old monkey has declined to respond). > > Finally, the young monkey would like to point out that this is all very > poorly documented. While aware of the freebsd_versioning.txt document > written by the old monkey, the young monkey can't find anything in it > about private symbol spaces. > > If the old monkey is in any way offended by this, he is free to > s/old/mature and experienced/ :) No, of course not. I hope I don't come across as too controntational either :-) --=20 DE ---559023410-758783491-1202150824=:14537--