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Date:      Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:54:32 -0400
From:      "Brian T. Schellenberger" <bts@babbleon.org>
To:        Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: root (/) not soft-updates by default ?
Message-ID:  <200208192254.32172.bts@babbleon.org>
In-Reply-To: <200208191604.g7JG4DOU077232@apollo.backplane.com>
References:  <20020819144928.GA6628@nebula.wanadoo.fr> <m3ofbylv71.fsf@merlin.emma.line.org> <200208191604.g7JG4DOU077232@apollo.backplane.com>

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I find that that the performance of my IDE drives is perfectly acceptable with 
write-caching turned off *if* I also enable softupdates on everything.

This is for desktop use, not a server, but then again if I were running a 
server I believe that I'd use SCSI anyway.

On Monday 19 August 2002 12:04 pm, Matthew Dillon wrote:
|     This conversation is moot, since modern IDE drives (and apparently
| seeping into SCSI drives as well) do track-at-once writes to the physical
| media, there is no ordering guarentee no matter what you do, and IDE
| performance with write caching turned off sucks so badly you pretty much
| *have* to turn it on if tags are not supported or suffer penalties so
| severe that the last time we tried it our user community was up in arms
| over the result.
|
|     So short of caching the data in NVRAM you are *screwed* no matter what
|     you do.  Oh, wait, even caching the data in NVRAM doesn't save us,
| since track-at-once writes rewrite sectors we never modified.  So we might
| as well turn write caching on.  If you don't like the default, you can turn
| it off in /boot/loader.conf.
|
|     In any case, Jaime Bozza's explanation (the smallish root can fill up
| with softupdates enabled when installing a new system over the old one) is
| the correct one.  This issue is fixed in -current's softupdates but not
| fixed in -stable's.  The business about IDE not ordering writes is also
| correct, but the statement that softupdates is somehow *worse* then a
| normal mount with an IDE disk is not correct.  Both are equally dangerous
| due to the track-at-once writes which IDE drives tend to do these days.
|
|     Since very little on the root partition is modified once a system has
|     come up, not enabling softupdates on root is not a big deal.
|
| 					-Matt
| 					Matthew Dillon
| 					<dillon@backplane.com>
|
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-- 
Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . .   bts@babbleon.org (personal)

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