From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 10 08:50:34 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4C416A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:50:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BDB43D45 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:50:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) j1A8oZj19002; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Andrew L. Gould" , Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:50:34 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200502092223.01650.algould@datawok.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal Subject: RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such asNetBSD!!! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:50:34 -0000 owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org wrote: > On Wednesday 09 February 2005 07:09 pm, - wrote: >> http://www.petitiononline.com/fbsdmsc1/petition.html >> >> Julien Gabel wrote: >>>>> See the thread "The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public >>>>> competition for the new logo design. ????" in -advocacy - I've >>>>> already replied with my views on the subject, along the same >>>>> lines as your comments. >>>> >>>> I'm not subscribed to -advocacy can you provide me with an archive >>>> link to this thread in question? I wasn't able to find it based on >>>> the subject you provided. >>> >>> You can follow this post at: >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2005-February/ > > I have been watching the fallout regarding this issue on both the > advocacy and questions email lists. It is clear from the advocacy > list, that the announcement was made prematurely and did not convey > the intended message either clearly or completely. That is true. > It is clear from > reading both lists that much of the anger is based upon false > assumptions, misinformation and incomplete editing of the leaked > document. > Sorry, but that is false. Much of the anger is based on Robert Watson (and whatever other core members are arguing with him over this) not IMMEDIATELY becoming completely forthright with the FreeBSD community as soon as the leak occurred. I am deeply concerned with what I see going on here. Since when has the FreeBSD Project had "secret" information of a sales and marketing nature? This is a brand new one to me. I can condone secrets in the area of leaglities - such as back in the bad old days when UCB was sued by USL, there were many secrets, a few that I and some others were able to ferret out but still many buried, and still some people under gag orders. But there has never before in the entire history of the FreeBSD Project been a situation where sales and marketing information has been considered "secret" Sure, BSDI operated like this - but they were not part of the FreeBSD Project. And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. But if Robert Watson had wanted to respond to this then he should have brought it up for discussion with the userbase immediately, not sneaked around talking to his cronies at Apple Computer, trying to figure out how to push this off onto the userbase in a way that people wouldn't object to doing so. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag - such a competition does not have as it's goal that of obtaining an image, it's only goal is assuaging pissed off people by pretending that they have a hand in the decision. > I (just a user) ask that the petition effort be delayed until the > official announcement is made and the issues can be drawn out and > discussed more clearly. > No, sorry. The core team apparently feels that the way to do things now is to made decisions of this nature first, then have discussion later, rather than the reverse which previously has been the case. Therefore if they are going to play it like this, then all users who disagree with this idea should do exactly as they are doing. In short, we have made our decision we don't want to see beastie removed from logo status, and we will be happy to discuss it after we have made up our minds, just like the core team seems happy to discuss their decision to jettison beastie as the logo, after having made up their minds to do so. I personally might have supported a logo change if the core team had started tossing around the idea in the mailing lists FIRST in an informal basis. And I will also say that when I worked with Addison Wesley back in 2000 for the cover art for my book, I did consider this as an issue that might possibly impact sales of my book. However I decided that I would be willing to take the financial impact on a personal basis of losing a few sales to people who are so blinded by their idea of religion that they wouldn't touch a book with an image of a devil on the cover - because the FreeBSD devil image has a historical significance to FreeBSD that is important. After all, in my book I am asking people to put aside their concerns that FreeBSD is a non-commercial operating system, and run it on their production business systems. I would be a hipocrite of the worst kind if I were to have not put aside my concerns that the Beastie image was unacceptable to businesses. However, as the core team as apparently represented by R Watson has stated they want to consider this internally first, then just tell the userbase what they are going to do later on, I say screw you, and I'll argue and fight against this topic for years. Ted Mittelstaedt Author, The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide