From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 29 19:02:08 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DEA1065673 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:02:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD18FC0C for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:02:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SBHFISLREXT03 ([10.132.254.62]) by SCSFISLTC01 (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p3TJ2716023170; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:02:07 -0500 Received: from sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM (Not Verified[10.132.248.122]) by SBHFISLREXT03 with MailMarshal (v6, 5, 4, 7535) id ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:02:43 -0500 Received: from sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM ([10.132.248.122]) by sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:02:06 -0500 Received: from dtwin ([10.132.254.135]) by sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:02:05 -0500 From: "Devin Teske" To: "'Mike Meyer'" References: <9AD2C0D5-F2A7-4F20-B04A-AF9BFC5918F7@vicor.com> <20110429130820.5056390e@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20110429130820.5056390e@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:02:03 -0700 Organization: Vicor, Inc. Message-ID: <000301cc069f$edf8bd10$c9ea3730$@vicor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQF9G/AhblsjpgWTQkLl7e1bA9mQcAGd6pailQYOoYA= Content-Language: en-us X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2011 19:02:05.0941 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE980A50:01CC069F] Cc: 'FreeBSD Hackers' Subject: RE: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:02:09 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mwm@mired.org] > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 10:08 AM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: Re: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu > > On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:53:11 -0700 > Devin Teske wrote: > > > Hello fellow hackers, > > > > I'd love to finally release (under the BSD license) my code for the revamped > FreeBSD boot loader menu. > > > > Here's a detailed discussion of the release complete with pictures: > > http://devinteske.com/new-freebsd-boot-loader-menu > > Got it, nice simple install (as promised), and it worked like a charm. > > I'd like to revisit the numbers vs. letters for menu options. IIRC (and I may not), > an earlier version used letters for the menu options, and people objected to that > change. Looking at the CVS history of the Forth code that renders the menu, I'm noticing: a. FreeBSD-4.x and earlier didn't have a menu (after loading the kernel, the loader simply drops to autoboot). b. FreeBSD-5.x introduced the menu that is currently in-use today (rendered by `beastie.4th'). c. The current menu uses numbers, not letters. If there was an earlier version of the menu that used letters, I'm not seeing it in CVS. > > Since we're changing the menus, we ought to look at which is best for the end > user, as opposed to just doing what feels comfortable to us as old users. > I was thinking that what we ought to do is support *both* numbers *and* letters. I envision the menuitem numbers remaining unchanged (1-7), allowing those familiar with the numbers to use them. However, as for the letters, I'm thinking that we *BOLD* the mnemonic in the menuitem. For example (showing bolded items between asterisks): 1. Boot *[ENTER]* 2. *A*CPI Support: Enabled 3. Boot Safe Mode: NO 4. Boot *S*ingle User: NO 5. Boot *V*erbose: NO 6. *Esc*ape to loader prompt 7. *R*eboot This should indicate to the user, for example if they see that the "V" in "Verbose" is bolded, that they can press that key to activate that menuitem. In addition, represented above, the only non-numeric keys that do anything would be: ENTER to boot A to toggle ACPI support S to toggle Single User mode V to toggle Verbose boot Esc to escape to the loader prompt R to reboot Looking at a standard QWERTY keyboard, A and S are close to each other, but since the new menu is stateful (meaning that pressing the key merely changes the state of that option) rather than stateless (wherein pressing a key would immediately boot with that option), if you jam the wrong key, no worries (just jam it again to return it to its pre-toggled state). I'm open to discussion as to what the keys should be, though I'm pretty hard-set on "S" for single-user, and "V" for verbose (the others, besides ENTER-to-boot, are open for debate -- personally I think I'd be happy with nothing more than just ENTER, "S" and "V" and no others). > In particular, there was a study done around '80 (I tried to find it but couldn't; I > know of someone who can probably provide a reference if someone really wants > it) that showed that menu selection with letters assigned mnemonically are > easiest for users to memorize. I can believe that quite easily. However, currently the boot menu does not support such letters. I think this new loader menu is the perfect place to implement them. On another note, I have one other change that I'd like to get in... I noticed that (in CVS) the menu currently blanks-out option #2 if booting on a system where ACPI is disabled or unavailable. In my boot loader, I'd like to display "ACPI Support: N/A" rather than simply blanking out the menu item. -- Devin > > Not really a major issue - you shouldn't be booting FreeBSD systems all that > often, so it's not something I care very much about. However, I figure someone > ought to at least speak up for using system that's better for new users rather > than quietly doing it the old way since we're making a change anyway. > > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. _____________