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Date:      Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:42:09 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Robert Watson <rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG>
To:        Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
Cc:        Will Andrews <will@physics.purdue.edu>, Daniel Eischen <eischen@vigrid.com>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, arch@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Rsh/Rlogin/Rcmd & friends 
Message-ID:  <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1000915183414.50219B-100000@fledge.watson.org>
In-Reply-To: <200009152050.e8FKojS25996@cwsys.cwsent.com>

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On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote:

> > You misinterpreted me.  I meant in this specific case, post-install
> > operation doesn't matter.  People can use ssh to get in the machines to
> > do things rsh/rlogin/rcmd offer.
> 
> They can also use ssh to get to machines to do things that telnet (IMO 
> similar function as rlogin).  Sftp can be used to replace ftp.

FTP is a widely deployed software distribution service, which even the
FreeBSD project uses.  There's no anonymous sftp, and such a service would
be undesirable for performance and security reasons, due to ssh's adoption
of keys in the keyfile to connect to a host -- accepting a key for
anonymous access should not be the same as accepting it for authenticated
access, but there is no trust level service in the SSH keyfile.

Also, last I checked, out sftp port did something stupid with regards to
path handling -- it relies on sftpserv being in the path, accessible by
the ssh daemon.  We hard-coded the path making it non-portable to other
platforms, where /usr/libexec is *not* the location of sftpserv.
Attempting to sftp to a platform with sftpserv in a different path fails
as a result of this modification.  Sftpserv is intended to reside in the
default path for sshd.

Not to mention that sftp is not a standized protocol.

> Not including telnet and ftp in this discussion is inconsistent.

Not including either would be a mistake -- just disable them in
inetd.conf.  We have SSH, which means we support secure service.  Telling
the rest of the world to be damned and removing countless tightly
integrated and well-supported services would be foolish.

Remember: tools not policy.  I use telnet and ftp all the time with
perfect safety.

  Robert N M Watson 

robert@fledge.watson.org              http://www.watson.org/~robert/
PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37  ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1
TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services




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