From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Sep 19 14:49:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5174114D0F for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: from kilt.nothing-going-on.org (kilt.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.18]) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA57257; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:24:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by kilt.nothing-going-on.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA71934; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:34:44 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:34:44 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: jorgandar blackmoon Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: whoops! Message-ID: <19990919173443.A69975@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990918082323.15419.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990918082323.15419.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com>; from jorgandar blackmoon on Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 01:23:23AM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 01:23:23AM -0700, jorgandar blackmoon wrote: > You want more newbies to fuel the freeBSD movement? Then just let them > have what they need, a newbies mailing list that is also for newbie > questions. It might be what you want. It's not necessarily what you need. A list filled with people new to FreeBSD asking questions is not going to get you useful answers. It will probably get you a lot of different answers, one of which might the right one, but without any way of telling. -newbies is a social list. If it helps, pretend the name is chat-newbies or something similar instead. Yes, -questions can sometimes be harsh. In my experience this is almost always because the answer to the question was findable with 5 minutes work going through the existing FreeBSD documentation (the FAQ, the Handbook, the manual pages, and the web site). Questions like "How do I install FreeBSD?" will get 'shouted at', regardless of where they are asked. Questions like "My FreeBSD install isn't working. I followed the instructions in the Handbook, but I get the error message 'foo' at step 7. I search the website for this error message, but nothing turned up" accomplishes several things: 1. You (that's the generic 'you', not you personally) don't look like you've put no effort in to trying to sort this out yourself. 2. It allows people who might be able to respond to have a much better idea of what the problem might be. This makes it much more likely that they will bother to answer. If you provide no information then it's much more likely that you'll be ignored. 3. It gets the error message into the mailing list archives, so that other people benefit from it. In some sense, this reflects part of the FreeBSD 'ethic'. We (again, that's the generic 'we') would rather not lower the bar to entry in order to accommodate everyone. We would prefer that people raise their 'awareness'[1]. They are then far more likely to be able to use FreeBSD. I'm well aware that some people will probably see this as being frighteningly elitist, and that FreeBSD should be catering for every single user who knows how to run a web browser. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Put this issue comes up every now and again, and you're unlikely to change anyone's opinions on it. If newbies want a newbie friendly mailing list for questions then strive to make -questions that list. Make sure that for each "Help, I can't install FreeBSD" question you put together a polite, friendly response trying to get more information so that you can solve the problem. And if you can't solve the problem, put together a nice friendly message explaining how to ask a question in -questions. It's been a while since I last subscribed, but it's possible there's something like that already. N [1] Probably the wrong word, but it'll do. -- [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed, non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs the links. -- Tom Christiansen in <375143b5@cs.colorado.edu> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message