From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 13:07:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA3C2CCF89 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4963lH2ymwz4Hs4 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MlNgz-1ixIdA2yaL-00lkDm; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:07:45 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:07:41 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "@lbutlr" Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200421150741.28dd6309.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Mv2rslgFwelT7vJo21gLO3l9HkRPzZFKqCwkPJuE4v4NZPXC1d+ +2FD8aXZs0xV4J51NpJP8EH6RuyUPmKiHecCV44yv+1wf3Lfp70ryPBw6ZmOVv65kzZUKZa li0XTQ3PPCpqZ2yhrpdVghpI4NQXeEB0SYs+TCCvdp+pmm4+XrTAL56x7vGRzC7EPXASL6m dBezao/EtcGrixFbfFe/g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VUewuOs+LVY=:fr7IHe3vlm2CS4OzjopwSR 3iZTOI46mZuYWV/Zen12WVvRh+fT1bDeBHL6qdkCSRpXmaiqPYfYVLj7zhCAt/wHKfsNWFOcn On0R7IubME50Rm0U5kbrfzn86q605mIsmRhel9RlRg5+DJlaHgUatSCjy2+I0s+o5uIkhkldF oYHRE2ryMSpE37AJQoBuUzekVqpLYdv4gFig92OasgXEFolg8geFmckfub6+6neGma+BWj6KR jXcmVAKV9Z4ikY98Q8UzQu2OjCnVogf+K3zthi8LNznJVCixZKgT+Nh6hwoArQq2GDMfdk/lE 8FBRlgYMdrMa4ntpxljLYVgmX+vB+mxe+Ngm5b9/3/+7zNB2Ptd/Go2y3Ju2QsRioltCDcocy pfa12wy0bnguR7qYbVUTAKZq83jzxiPw1fQNXUPY8AipfuFNXs/rZr9DrEaZdZ8AlsGuTH9a6 DXetkTzHQl/lEa6PdawN7GX8VokoKUS1a386niLuHJB2llTEyEms8llohgJMoUs4PEi/WyFMj GgTDQJ6IPUclcETA02GTluzcR1e5L6FQo+C/VgKecOlyLigBYoya3soMfQ48zhFBsff1PFl09 LMv0DuP4au3+Dfe1u5hPLWiSKgCdt+FFTc8xjae66tlDNDmsb26Slhjf+CpHFgkjnTsXYSSyc K/msWkesTMZDKZhwgItyiJjr+BTnUSXA+6GBPGl5seuUCjxOoHuAvrVjd/M/ZUfvjxXa3AuLr maAJHyZKZKn5UxQgGhmsJHUFFRhEmpi66vg2bnHVi1GMoSL0eupVgPON5BSGNnana0t8yOQXB QCRZGVRg51HJWQfOTDhwFaMRpIMOrU9I+w/IcbzHYTxr3kjfoC9smOjaYcSJOGdqGV7/2al X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4963lH2ymwz4Hs4 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.27.222.94.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.889,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.49)[ip: (1.61), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.20), asn: 8560(2.08), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:56 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:18:51 -0600, @lbutlr wrote: > On 20 Apr 2020, at 02:24, Ihor Antonov wrote: > > But even in 10 years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11 > > Perhaps. A tiny percentage. The rest will continue as they are now, > avoiding X11 at all costs because it is insecure bloat that > interferes with the desired operation of the machine. Depends. If Wayland can offer all features that X11 offers at the moment, there will probably be no major problem in transition. Being able to utilize 3D support and all the driver confusion is definitely a point to work on. > FreeBSD doesn’t delude its users into thinking it is a > reasoanable desktop; linux does but it is a delusion. No idea what I'm "obviously" doing wrong for decades... I'm using FreeBSD as a very reliable (!), convenient, modern, pleasant, do-not-interfere-with-my-intentions kind of desktop for probably 20 years, for regular desktop use, development, gaming, media, everything. Personally, I'm not missing _anything_ that's important to me; on the other side, Linux desktops do not offer this kind of reliability yet. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...