From owner-freebsd-pf@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 02:23:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F88BCF0 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul.g.webster@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED09C8FC08 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id u54so1299419wey.13 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:23:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:organization:subject:to:from:date:mime-version :message-id:user-agent; bh=KNYDWYaN2QWi8qHrhZv7+9gXYpa6KPobo5NHCMmntvI=; b=QfcCBOp4DPquJM/pzYDq2aNlrTPNg0l4TJLaZ5mYINSLLZ6918RiXHIcWHc9XkX2iU sLnIRTeUH7fLcgCo79O42AohRXzPAgexjNXTic/3GftlQfYvoL3onxLI8eBFVlbkBxuR Pee36gqga/fPyGabM4Q5fGtkkGQiUYMfcEpm+7ZUtXZb4NJf4o22fOuqD4x2yJmeA7s+ I6TOj9NiUNvAl8EAB5IWib1rBqVmTDZ+qcXL4SCfwWzg29BQx2zwxYq641fQiwK9PKc9 CNdaXa/supTeaD1dkBD19cqwbC3+nwiKT7K4r02XaBFixBKEpQfd2h3qVz/Xdpg6uCcV EM6w== Received: by 10.180.105.134 with SMTP id gm6mr11632733wib.21.1353378189582; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from box.dlink.com (host-78-149-58-39.as13285.net. [78.149.58.39]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bz12sm2887924wib.5.2012.11.19.18.23.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:23:08 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=----------xo5kxhbZtSA6Ccv6ZiGEEy Organization: Interflective Group Subject: Upgrading FreeBSD to use the NEW pf syntax. To: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org From: "Paul Webster" Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:23:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.11 (Win64) X-BeenThere: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussion and general questions about packet filter \(pf\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 02:23:13 -0000 ------------xo5kxhbZtSA6Ccv6ZiGEEy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good day all, I am aware this is a much discussed subject since the upgrade of PF, I believe the final decision was that to many users are used to the old style pf and an upgrade to the new syntax would cause to much confusion. There was a recent debate on ##freebsd about this issue and I was inclined to mail in and get your opinions; basically it boiled down to the majority of users wanting either: 1) To move to the newer pf and just add to releases notes what had happened, and 2) my own personal opinion: creating 'pf2-*' as a kernel option tree, basically using the newer pf syntax and allowing users to choose. I would be interested to know the feedback from you guys as to be honest there seems to be quite a few users who actually DO want the new style format and functionality that comes with. I Attached the log of the conversation just for reference. -- Thank you for your time -- Paul G Webster 'daemon' Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------xo5kxhbZtSA6Ccv6ZiGEEy Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=irc-snippet.txt Content-Type: text/plain; name="irc-snippet.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable * daemonik (~Adium@mail.originate.com) has joined ##freebsd Is the implementation of PF on FreeBSD up to date yet? no * stormcrow (~phydeaux@c-24-126-183-121.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has left ##= freebsd and it won't ever be, we (retardedly) forked it with some ra= ndom guy's patches rather than updating it it's rare that that question asked about *any* part of the ba= se OS will be answered with "yes" doh. booo @ random patches blakkheim that was truly a stupid move i agree any chance of getting them to 'take it back' they think freebsd users are too stupid to adapt to the newe= r pf syntax and "thousands will upgrade without knowing and be left with= an unreachable system" or some bs like that is there anything that pf can do that ipfw cannot do check the freebsd-pf mailing list illuminated (or feel free = to post and complain) blakkheim: That's pretty damn . . wow might be worth a few emails to all the lists asking for other u= sers to post into the pf list to support moving to the correct pf maybe we can implement the newer pf as 'pf2' FreeBSD presently doesn't have ALTQ support included in the g= eneric kernel, correct? Is there an alternative to ALTQ? daemon: i think so too daemon: Is it really that hard to shout in the appropriate pl= aces to properly inform users? What about release notes? Anybody who doe= sn't read release notes deserves what's coming to them. that's what i said! * chrisb has learned to read MOVED and UPDATING closely Huh . . that kind of behavior is why no one respects anyone/t= hing associated with GNOME anymore . . daemonik, I dont see it being that hard to use both the 'ramdon= guys patches' version of pf as the default for a few releases putting t= he newer version of pf as 'pf2' therefor satisfying both channels of thought there certainly should be A WAY of using the newer version posting these thoughts to freebsd-pf@ is much more likely to= invoke a change (or at least a poll or something) than on irc daemon: No . . the noobs are the ones who should have to use = a pf-something. I bother to read the release notes, I want to use the co= rrect version of the software. Why should I have to suffer? Why should I= change when they're the ones who suck? * nightwalk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) I'll make a post later tonight. I hope that others see these = messages and also articulate their thoughts on the mailing list. FreeBSD= should hold a high standard for something as important as PF. daemonik, if you did read release notes you would see 'ad the n= ew version of pf is pf2' there is no need to upset users without cause; = as the 'patched' pf is the default for the tag 'pf' at the moment making= the new version 'pf2' is literally much more sane and certainly a huge degree less antagonistic How do I find the size of a folder? And for that matter how do I search a man page? du -sh dirname and use /string to search Thanks blakkheim I would rather read the release notes seeing that the WRONG v= ersion of PF gets deprecated to pf-legacy as it ought to be =97 knowing = that those who don't read the release notes will have a bad day. Referring to the CORRECT and latest stable version of PF as "= PF2" would make FreeBSD . . well, look about as incompetent as certain L= inux distros sometimes do to say the least. daemonik, transistion time should always be taken into account = on any system; if we did was I was suggesting then 'pf' would be the new= version in -CURRENT but for later 9.x releases it would still have to b= e as I pointed out above i recall a number of features having 2 tagged to the name UFS2 for one or was it FFS2 and i think IPFW2 its quite a common practice; sudeenly changing a major feature/= system is just generally what makes people cry especially when it can be avoided with something as simple as a= dding a number to the end of the kernel tag kernel option* ------------xo5kxhbZtSA6Ccv6ZiGEEy--