Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:31:17 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Plagiarism (Was: FreeBSD spokesman) Message-ID: <20010706173117.N99228@lpt.ens.fr> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010706090739.045bc340@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:18:55AM -0600 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010703141550.045f5340@localhost> <20010705123729.M371@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705125211.04638740@localhost> <20010705224626.O47721@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705163434.04524b00@localhost> <20010706103808.A99228@lpt.ens.fr> <20010706151421.I99228@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010706071808.04536ef0@localhost> <20010706170429.M99228@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010706090739.045bc340@localhost>
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Brett Glass said on Jul 6, 2001 at 09:18:55: > At 09:04 AM 7/6/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > >> "The proper use of footnotes and other methods of attribution varies from > >> discipline to discipline. Failure to abide by the attribution standards of > >> the discipline concerned in the preparation of essays, term papers and > >> dissertations or theses may, in some cases, constitute plagiarism. > >> > >> "Students who are in any doubt about the proper forms of citation and > >> attribution of authorities and sources should discuss the matter in advance > >> with the faculty members for whom they are preparing assignments. In many > >> academic departments, written statem ents on matters of this kind are made > >> available as a matter of routine or can be obtained on request." > > > >Note the word "may". > > The "may" refers to failure to abide by strict attribution standards. Greg > did not attribute my words to me at all. For this reason, there is NO > QUESTION that what he did was plagiarism. He abided by perfectly adequate attribution standards for this medium. In a scholarly paper you are supposed to cite to a level of accuracy which enables the reader to track down the original in a library (or these days on an online archive): saying "Brett Glass said" would not be enough. In less formal writing, giving the source (a FreeBSD mailing list) is quite adequate. In fact it's more than adequate: with what he wrote, interested people can readily search for the original if they really want to, and find it within seconds. > >"Use" is not defined in the second part, but if we take the meaning > >to be the same as in the first clause, the meaning is "use as one's > >own", not "quote for reference". > > Sorry, Rahul, but this is a very weak argument. Why? It's a very obvious argument. Despite my lack of respect for Webster, I still assume that the authors are consistent and don't change the meaning of a verb mid-sentence. > plagiarism by any standard -- academic or journalistic. Read > the THOUSANDS of pages on the Web, published by universities all > over the world. There is universal consensus that failing to > cite constitutes plagiarism. Failing to cite in journalism never constitutes plagiarism and seldom constitutes impropriety. Open today's newspaper and count the quotes like "an unnamed official said" (which are always because the journalist didn't want to name the official at possible risk to the latter, or because the official explicitly requested not to be named.) In academic circles, failure to give a full citation is improper, yes: but it is not plagiarism even by your Webster definition. > >> Another authoritative reference: The MLA Style Manual > >> (http://www.mla.org/www_mla_org/style/style_index.asp?mode=section) > >> which is the gold standard among academic syle guides. My friend > >> has this here, too. It states, simply: > >> > >> "Plagiarism is the use of another person's ideas or expressions > >> in your writing without acknowledging the source." > > > >But he did acknowledge the source, a mailing list. > > This is akin to saying, "I did acknowledge the source: A book!" No, it's like saying "in the journal Nature" or "in the New York Times recently" -- how many news articles give a full citation with volume and page number and names of authors? But you can find it if you want to, and it's even easier to find if the reference is a FreeBSD mailing list. You're just arguing in circles, and looking out for potentially ambiguous usages of words like "use", because you cannot defend your claim on this in any concrete way. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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