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Date:      Wed, 20 May 1998 17:18:13 -0400
From:      "Jason" <kib@poboxes.com>
To:        <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>, "Brett Glass" <brett@lariat.org>
Subject:   Re: Why we should support Microsoft.
Message-ID:  <022b01bd8434$cf24c060$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net>

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>At 11:23 AM 5/18/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>This is not what "they" are saying.
>
>Microsoft is engaging in unscrupulous and monopolistic business practices,
>including tying, monopoly maintenance, tortious interference with contract,
>breach of contract, and more. These practices are illegal in any
industry --
>be it software, steel, coal, railroads, or shoes.


That sounds aweful vague....and vague doesn't win in court (well not
supposed to anyway :)...What are the specifics here anyhow?

>>I belive in economic Darwinism; that is to say, good products flourish and
>>poor products wilt away. The consumer ultimately decides what sells and
>>what doesn't, and not the providers. If Win98 stinks, I hope it dies and
>>forces MS to make better products. But who am I to say what they should or
>>should not try to do?
>
>This is analogous to saying that if a group of gangsters manages to gain
control
>of a city as its "territory," that you have no say in what it does. After
all,
>that's "Darwinism;" the strongest gang has won, right?


But the software industry is a ligitament business.   Gangsters are involved
in ileagal businesses like murder and gambling.   I think there is a
distinct difference here.

Now if it is found out that MS is involved in muder and gambling or
something else ilegal then there is a case....but unless they can find
something like MS forcing OEMs do something like: not allowing them to
install something that consumers might want.

>
>Microsoft could, and should, have removed the browser entirely and made it
>optional. Since it did not, it seems reasonable to offer it the option of
>disabling it.
>


Why ...it was never optional before?   Every windows 9x I have ever seen has
had IE in it.  And what does it hurt to make IE part of Windows anyhow?  In
Win98 I have seen that IExplorer.exe and Explorer.exe are one and the
same...so you cant use win98 without IE4.   Unfortunately if IE window
crashes so does explorer.exe  :(    But that os not a mojor problem because
the OS automatically restarts the shell and all you losy is the systray.
Its there but you cant see anything that was there before the crash.


>> * If MS does include a browser, they must also provide all
>>   competing products as well. Can you say horse<dung>? That is
>>   entirely ludicrous.
>
>No, it is not. Again, it's merely an expedient compromise. The PROPER thing
>to do is not to tie the browser to the OS. However, if Microsoft is going
>to do so, one way to ameliorate the negative effects is to allow other
companies
>to put their browsers on the disk as well. It's not a very GOOD way, since
>they wouldn't be able to charge for their browsers that way (and one of the
biggest
>problems with Microsoft's tying of the browser is that it's effectively
"dumping"
>it on the market for free). But at least the browser makers could get some
revenue
>page from "Portal" pages, etc.


How would a browser company make money by putting it in win98?   unless its
a shareware or somethint that requires registration to use.   I don't think
this is appropriate unless they make Apple, OS/2, FreeBSD and others do the
same thing.

>> * MS must modify their "Window Manager" so that OEMs and
>>   competitors can customize their visual. How would all the
>>   developers of FreeBSD feel if I took a FreeBSD release, changed
>>   the GUI a bit, and called it AtipaOS?
>
>Fine. In fact, you're allowed to. Go to it!
>

And it can be done on windows 95/98 as well.   Everything but messing with
the source or kernal....those are protected by copyright laws.  But the OS
has a great many things you can customize.


>You seem to be buying Bill Gates' bogus arguments, hook, line, and sinker.
>With all due respect, have you been sent to this newsgroup by Microsoft as
>part of its "grass roots" campaign? Microsoft has been known to plant
>disruptive "advocates" in online forums in the past, so this is by
>no means unusual.


sounds more like you are buying into the DOJ as much as he is buying into
Bill Gates.   from what I have seem the DOJ is talking in "vague emotional
terms" and Bill Gates is showing the people proof in his recent news
conference on CNN.

Jason


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