From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 13:56:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6950A33A229 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:56:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12c.google.com (mail-il1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mV9p0QVkz42dN for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:56:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id i1so1410808ils.11 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:56:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NdbkwtHCyHbIrr9ny7SAWAyWdN3cNmj0sCO3n0FwDW8=; b=CYgicPykXAPxyfsLlOEgI56w3vrXgziU183iJiknmiTspmBJWIBhqs5YJkjzEqOLS8 qPr7v/KNLjpUMtiaEizvUDWbaWqP+3NLxnuz2tG7IzD0YTuDb/KVmUwiHYtonmzlI75+ 7Qub7fWUgXe3opZoNPEEIRD4B4YsLAyWOfcYd6Dx550BQLa/hErZMiXHSvCL1T1n2gZz oE5IhElAj9PszL/uD+t+bDtASa43ZMQwasbZ+kkOlNhNFU7e+nHnA+It9lHfkzQqaLW1 dp3fJUbibvLGdatzjtsqTOK8b4mIJ5EjcxsqPE3hS2K3gjrEqsRgP1BnnuWv+YX3T1cw DTXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NdbkwtHCyHbIrr9ny7SAWAyWdN3cNmj0sCO3n0FwDW8=; b=icR3jxEhggC5wfn4keED2wGXMhem+zc7WhSSiGuQSDdWAeyuzTWKiDnLWF9ES4aAq1 NL5fKzjOIe4A8F8xXC1nOLxWGyWZQWHmf53ErUHao8zPAQfhi+brJ20VmRo/DniHIt4p Yfy72nQQnS2/mr2jFeQuJ+BD0aK0Ahi71jFy0yeDdOay1IN0048vC95+EIqTjyc5GcVy edpoUgOmQbFqhJ4LbUAeXn7uPNeCSgkLW0ROXSVuno3K5i6eixBbMk9693ustAOf9qq0 btBdwsO1wDaJTXAQ1jDFdQRoqiGfRvIcPMeXxkllTME8ZAN1Mx1cic0Z/jAuojwlag6k a69Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5316RntbubdMEe4zFjxMCEV6Ng4F/CeK2C6uY5j6nvkRxd2INsXZ ZH0KZijzB4Qv/9KAjMNu4O3BTBn73U8dRoojraY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgmPn36JyUtvmdxAdEwXtnug57Nq5J1pNt1HYTr4mBzUJtlRZ86aPJLYSHN50ORojBW3kVYCskzb7AMTsnap8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:eb0:: with SMTP id u16mr3430341ilj.81.1592315804833; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:56:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616092901.000002f7@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:56:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Chris Knipe Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mV9p0QVkz42dN X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=CYgicPyk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.53 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.052]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.480]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:56:47 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 9:46 AM Chris Knipe wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:35 PM Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 9:29 AM Jerry wrote: >> >> > >> > 1) Not everybody buys the bargain basement item. >> > >> > [snip] >> >> > 3) In virtually all cases, I never buy the entry level product of any >> > line. It is almost always the first one to go obsolete and/or not be >> > supported by its creators. >> > >> >> News for you: >> 1. Not everyone is made out of money or works for someone who is >> >> 2. Some of us have more useful things to do then buying tech we don't need >> like paying the rent and putting food on our table >> >> 3. To deny that the above facts are not true for at least some people is >> the height of lack of empathy and/or the understanding needed to pick the >> right defaults for a system that needs to be useful to as many people as >> possible. >> >> > We are talking about > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#idp44832888 > > It would -seem- to me (personally at least), the majority is kept back to > cater for the minority. As I've said in my initial post, I will use > whatever MUA I want, and I will send email in whatever standard I deem to > be acceptable. It would -seem- to me, that the problem is YOUR choice of > MUA that cannot decode / display said email correctly, and not mine that is > not encoding it correctly. > I am not the one complaining about the inability to do anything. I use gmail directly on the web and never had any of the issues you described. Please be more careful about actually reading what people said before making assumptions about them (other people were complaining about the formatting, I was not, I was only complaining about your attitude). > If you want to use old / outdated technologies, that is your choice. I > know of many, many freelancers having even better hardware than I. If you > choose to be stuck in the old age, then so be it. The majority, can't be > technologically held back to cater for the minority. If you depend on said > tech to generate income to pay rent and put food on the table (like all of > us btw, not just you), common sense would dictate that you'd want to > continuously improve on said tech to be able to use the latest and greatest > technologies to woo said clients and get the business in order to get the > $$$ you need to pay the rent / put food on said table. > I hardly call maintaining the software behind a remote cardiac monitoring system "low tech" or backwards. I will call it life critical and that's why I stay with stuff I *KNOW* is rock solid instead of being the shiniest thing on the block (dead people don't know or care how new tech is if they are dead just ask several thousand people who flew on a 737-MAX *ONCE*) . If you want to woo the kind of client who is impressed by bells and whistles, be my guest but just do me a favor and keep them away from any project that might actually affect someone's life/livehood. No my friend, it is your CHOICE to be stuck in the stone age... In fact, > the entire tone of your message basically reads "I use old tech, and > therefore it MUST be supported".... > More like it has been fire tested to hell and back and passes with flying colors where newer stuff can't always make that claim. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org