From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 27 17:12:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB581065670; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mezz.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B744E8FC0A; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl8 with SMTP id l8so1347167yen.13 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:12:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UKGohNsozKEb0J+uL6a9Z5aZFjYIP7EHY5xJtLKB9gw=; b=CSMCyzVPI7XLbZBqlgFNaj176kkJSfxo51q7ZezVrPqd0iKaMgGBtlXgpWgzA1fSEG L8tePjqUh4LObhTE7Ysbr6CR0oNktCPSxLJk7WFxPlPIeBUD04tjpcbYsFe/tI/j12KQ r6/r2mYdRDDwdRIK+pZtO5EGCyj5Vl0zo1AkiwOK0cDRLNhPVrq0s8JOSRWiuNMCfauY BU7CHJP+OcvlpAyP5om/CinzAV7DX3AF/uYeC4r5QBATNCAED9Z0roxEtpnW6HwU1oV8 +cFhuQ1P7/j8PbCwZqKB0QAlCFZ7TxXvTmKHhYnig0xxL3+SzUWLFN0XMBujKwAmBE+B ro/Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.173.135 with SMTP id v7mr23517655yhl.19.1340817172959; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.85.17 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:12:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FEB1F20.8010704@FreeBSD.org> References: <1340807413.83238.YahooMailClassic@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FEB1F20.8010704@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Jeremy Messenger To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: pfg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS-UP] BSD sort is the default sort in -CURRENT X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:12:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 06/27/2012 07:30 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> >> >> --- Mer 27/6/12, Doug Barton ha scritto: >> ... >>> >>>> I believe we do not >>>> make this kind of work with any vendor code that is >>> being updated in the >>>> base; >>> >>> Au contraire, we frequently avoid updating the old versions >>> of things we have in the base precisely because they are >>> not bug-for-bug compatible with existing behaviors that we >>> count on. >>> >> >> >> Really?? I guess you are speaking for bind, > > Nope. > >> because the idea >> behind updating and piece of software is precisely shaking >> bugs. > > Nope. > >> I would think only the maintainer of the package has the >> authority to make any request in the lines of being >> bug-for-bug compatible > > You have a seriously wrong idea of "maintainer." The community owns the > software, it's up to the community to decide how it should work. > Historically we have looked at the maintainer as the person who > volunteers to take care of code, not the person who has the exclusive > lock on it. > >> and in the case of GNU sort and >> GNU grep they are both unmaintained and replacements >> are welcome. > > Actually both are maintained, it's just that we don't want to import the > new GNU versions. And yes, having BSD versions of these core tools is a > nice goal, but it's not one we should pursue for its own sake. > >> Please let's stop being an obstacle towards people >> bringing real progress to FreeBSD! > > In the case of grep, there were a fairly large number of people who > agreed that a BSD grep with orders of magnitude worse performance than > the previous version was not something we, as a project, were willing to > stomach. Sufficiently such that the default was switched back. > > So can we please stop pretending that it's me who's the problem, and > start looking at these things rationally? Doug, I think you need to give it a chance. I do not see any problem for anyone to switch the default and if the problems discover then switch the default back. It's a bleeding edge branch where more people can test it. The issue with grep was very harmeless and it was not difficult to switch the default between GNU and BSD. It's not like they threw GNU grep/sort away quickly. How come that I haven't heard anything from you about the jemalloc update? If you did then I must have missed it. It was very clearly that it was not test and he doesn't handle it very well, but got fixed evenly with the multi-commit. It was worst than grep/sort and other projects. If you are wondering why it's you. Because lately you are starting to whine a lot without give the things chance. If we are doing your way and nothing will moving on. > Doug -- mezz.freebsd@gmail.com - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org