From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 22 21:07:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78EFD361032 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 21:07:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pf1-x443.google.com (mail-pf1-x443.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::443]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BBp2T5fJfz4m1S for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 21:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pf1-x443.google.com with SMTP id t11so1910973pfq.11 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=zyHiYZxjv6w94XJ+Z/Nk8Cr25fD1pocsKyo6bnK3v+M=; b=Li8YvnsUMtoazLRWWJftbykrMCpERHTMW6fiELQQqd4U5evYCNVJrU6h2vGyraWDiE 9A8ojPk5KGAeB3/ApzlD6U79u4SmVnGYolwI2x9x5BlHrkh1sWNt41UXbkCfv8Lq//8K iEhesmMUZynArRIgoVgiJIAs2Hsfy3Qp29olOyfKoHVEmcCl0r4VcxCVqT8oZomOrVTv o6EXd8E5Be1qsV8+0r4WlgnbYuTp3dgpgGiYQcPtGcdKODjFf97ylo+fjrGJ/ofUsHvo m7BcgZnkwK/sBea5tlu3KyZ9phK+hc2BFtA7hCG/P7Xe6/wl6HWpLmp9CqNT+mHiQTxI MUtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=zyHiYZxjv6w94XJ+Z/Nk8Cr25fD1pocsKyo6bnK3v+M=; b=Uzfj59ih7QlsUv/jq2q1dhbDGx8DfBO10sIjmITaFPvDpNoSz5g+VRRDT67DW27Bo/ SqTUCdbEXekCFnYKGDNrod/9gEBx2Go+nD7frqcmri6Y9YoKzogzWZRVR6j/Ng+lFVtf hdUreqEVdItG0JPpLS0l0aRy9WYFoY+sT6zCU4uP2+7JtI9eXX/ZP0GXeDxM25F6HVlp sgGB1mkocNZnCrlfwMh4J+IJlB+GF77NhIi+GxC06R8bNhyvI6QXlVX2BegrU+2xVzwq fjfTcRUAkBKrjZBTMa2FVX4P0Esxw0jWa8TRodkYxusL8Y4Xy5GMTWRkl2H5TxMZ6AcA I8FA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Kwb1A+7qtmmwclcj0LCfiGDpG/9mkhvP1K/fq4cf6hStktx6i L6xU6bNuIq9xmL8AOBrUuRGBo6lA3vo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxDSyQzs4DY3WDdyXDiMT09zuoHhfYYq1uxzcphtspE4Ll1xQsf9vV+CbkAr7G+HLYYDEtqlw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8b4c:: with SMTP id i12mr1391491pfd.91.1595452063957; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.4] (184-98-239-89.phnx.qwest.net. [184.98.239.89]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g18sm512544pfi.141.2020.07.22.14.07.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD (GhostBSD) Question? To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <1720589882.5509006.1595431360144@mail.yahoo.com> <20200722204107.e19f8052.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Don Wilde Message-ID: <3ad130d6-cc26-a77d-536d-713772dadd95@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:07:41 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200722204107.e19f8052.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BBp2T5fJfz4m1S X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Li8YvnsU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::443 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.24 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.26)[-0.259]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[184.98.239.89:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::443:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 21:07:46 -0000 On 7/22/20 11:41 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 09:45:08 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: >> I don't see that any of these GUI installers help a whole bunch for what >> I want. I can see their usefulness for those who come from the Doze or >> Mac -- or even Ubuntu -- worlds, but that's not where I want to go. I'll >> just do it the old-fashioned way because I want to know what's getting >> installed. > The problem with desktop environments, not limited to MATE, > or Xfce, or Lxde, is that they come with their equivalent > of "accessories" - little programs that you might or might > not need. If you wish to avoid this, install a graphical > file manager and a window manager, but keep in mind that > this is _not_ a desktop environment anymore! My only addition beyond that is a programmer's editor with scripting capability. I like old-fashioned EMACS and (sorry about the heresy) replace VI / VIM as the default editor. > I tend to do this because I wish to have control over what > is being installed, and I also use software from any "GUI > lands" which are part of the Linux and UNIX experience: > KDE programs, Gtk programs, and I don't care about "visual > consistency" - it has been gone, it no longer exists, not > even on the Mac (and "Windows" has said goodbye to it > long time ago). So I only need to required libraries, but > not the stuff a full desktop would include. I hadn't even gone that far. For me, it wouldn't be the 'visual consistency' that I'd be worried about, it'd be the underlying GUI/WM library hooks. > For example, I have a "service system" that runs FreeBSD > with the IceWM window manager (theme "metal2"), plus the > program wbar (Warlock bar), and a Mac background image. > It looks very expensive, and I tend to start all the > different Gtk / Qt / ... programs via terminal, except > for those already present in wbar (typical stuff like > Firefox, an audio mixer, WiFi manager, LibreOffice and > so on). I don't even go that far. That's why I keep Ubuntu 18 around. :) I just don't choose to fight it any more, as you describe in your next paragraph. :) > Most desktop environments have moved to "let's include > everything, maybe someone needs it, and when it's not > there they'll complain" approach. "Old-fashioned" desktops > like Mate or Cinnamon have quite good control over what > additional parts to install, Gnome 3, in my opinion, does > not fit: even though you can configure a lot, it feels > like you have to fight the system to make it do what you > want, instead a system supporting your workflow. Exactly! -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * ****************************************************