From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:16:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484BFDEC0A9 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AC0D70DBA for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id z74so33903276iof.12 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=nagyVmr0ZfB1u1xSWhsY5J6ltRs2ccanvJhe+Bedj2w=; b=CGFVgwtjplpGVEzdLu+OeMeSpomNKx0COPosMrAIFBcJxvDkQYy8ZeiivOx1/WGUMp hXwMAVH3/5tMCy/wMvuafF7JJQ6+Cuh2cX5E1SqbzlI5otstsZHL5WavHsopP3UUZDB4 KhwStUHHE0Cc7rbsL7KLmbFBng/kW2AvWufnHKqAWHGr57HvmxlAR939WDmGFJTQTKEh xDGZKep8y3niPsiuRQcufr0ogb5orqqztgLHV3DAh7iI8e4VOSGiIT6ioKlWYT01lz04 jKq156LWEjBZY6g87Gwf4mBFY2jVA9EsrFnp4XumP/EAk2lWNO+V0Ay/gYU0cerN+9ju rA4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nagyVmr0ZfB1u1xSWhsY5J6ltRs2ccanvJhe+Bedj2w=; b=XFHCZtdKAiYJPa3Cr7+mMHlO2n7e7smgQXTn7pky+I5jYJjQnNWCgVQLD1QXzfukvx O6+GoHYlnizQtCz+OikXUO/VYD50qNb37DkkWiRAkd7YECLYbg6E3iN5EiAZ5R/EGhGo 4TjRngIzfEg4uLgR1cB5AWX99qhXXMMSd2R7lwzDC5AlkUqTnNJJfDLNBx6PjBqp0YDT C7+blKmA8yMShxdeI2ike/dCrKixNggZxCa/4cNAvjnKH+DtdfLAYjd8vPFEa2fbDraE YUxjCwD+DqfcdoUiChJfxu9XbYYpY+llP5UnucGKHq9Dk3XmKtpww1GgGAIT/KBbFy2V HSSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4hRbNtnSCQ4pfWHVc0l+zb3lPI/rs4hkIckENBrz9rqRLzvp0r I2R0bo/jkJDtFEGxlpV+hsUs3eUpDd4viCEsCDX4wg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZu3B7fuIKz9q9NzGqVqh+ZaOWekfFueC/5i9W14oeazLlbz7/7GRGGHuFmns8WtnTmrkHkpMfslyWbMvglBds= X-Received: by 10.107.48.197 with SMTP id w188mr37299536iow.301.1511716610235; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:49 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:16:49 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tIjdf34p_dnauTYQoA1QVmmYOJg Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: John Baldwin Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , lidl@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 -0000 On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > >> On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: >> > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: >> > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we >> should take: >> > > >> > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage >> from the default .login/.profile files. >> > > >> > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and mak= e >> freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. >> > >> > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. >> > >> > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips t= o >> > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. >> > >> > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users >> > of the program. If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile >> > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. >> >> Agreed. I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can >> maintain >> a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool. When >> the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, bu= t >> instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local. The >> current state is fine. The drama and lost time has always been about th= e >> 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issue >> is >> resolved. >> > > I like this plan. Let's call it consensus and implement. > [[ stupid gmail UI -- hit send too soon ]] I call it "consensus" but know there's a number of folks on one end of the spectrum that want it gone completely, and some on the other end that want the datafile restored. And all sorts of opinions in between. Maybe "rough consensus" in that it's about the "centroid" of the mass of opinions on the topic, and a good argument can be made. I find the "freebsd-tips is useful and makes the system more friendly," argument persuasive. I think it would help our brand and user experience to have it there by default and it is very much the sort of thing that should be in the base. Having the "fiunny" data files in a port and having the tool in the base system is a reasonable compromise, though one that will be revisited with pkg src in the future so if we get it wrong there's a natural decision point not too far away. Warner