From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 9 10:37:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5264016A412 for ; Tue, 9 May 2006 10:37:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from msid@daemons.gr) Received: from jefferson.hostingzoom.com (jefferson.hostingzoom.com [216.118.117.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F34443D45 for ; Tue, 9 May 2006 10:37:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from msid@daemons.gr) Received: from [88.218.36.6] (port=63718 helo=localhost) by jefferson.hostingzoom.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.52) id 1FdPak-0005tl-9Y; Tue, 09 May 2006 05:37:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:37:18 +0300 From: Sideris Michael To: Gary Kline Message-ID: <20060509103718.GB4205@daemons.gr> References: <20060508200926.GA6005@daemons.gr> <1147119806.18944.59.camel@ikaros.oook.cz> <20060508211402.GB49575@thought.org> <20060508212319.GA74691@daemons.gr> <20060509024606.GB52788@thought.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060509024606.GB52788@thought.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - jefferson.hostingzoom.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - daemons.gr X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ports structure and improvement suggestions X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 10:37:30 -0000 On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 07:46:06PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 12:23:19AM +0300, Sideris Michael wrote: > > On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 02:14:02PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > > On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:23:26PM +0200, Pav Lucistnik wrote: > > > > Sideris Michael p??e v po 08. 05. 2006 v 23:09 +0300: > > > > > > > > > > This is likely to start a flame war, or at least a spit-ball > > > fight. I hope not.... Some months ago after using RedHat's > > > update stuff, a few people seemed a bit upset at my enthusiasm. > > > Since then RH got greedy and stopped their free or cheapware > > > approach and I eventually found the next best altrnative to > > > FBSD: Ubuntu. Among their ``idiotware'' apps is a GUI front end > > > to their apt-get stuff. In 11 months of use, I've managened to > > > keep 2 Ubuntu systems current with a few mouseclicks a month. > > > > > > Nutshell, is there a way of using this approach? If not, > > > is there a way of perl- or /bin/sh- or /bin/ch- bundling > > > portupgrade with pkgdb, and other upgrade programs to get > > > something more rational working? Most of the times that > > > portupgrade screws up, it is due to a build failure. Sometimes > > > it's easy to figure out why the build failed; when it is a > > > ./configure snafu, it's always hours of time backtracing. > > > Time N failed builds. ...Too much. > > > > The problems here are really two. Decide a standard way for configuring ports and > > include in the base system a tool that will upgrade the installed ports. Both of > > them are easy to achieve. Having in mind always that there are people in the mood > > to improve things. Bored and irresponsible people should be vanished in my opinion > > cause they are a cancer for a project like FreeBSD. And it is really sad to hear > > that the port maintainers are bored to modify the Makefiles. And it even more awful > > to hear that even if the current Makefiles are modified, there is no way to ensure > > this for future ports. Unacceptable. > > > Yeah. I'm at least as guilty as anyone because I have four or > five ports under my name--2 I wrote. Since then life has > done some trips on me, I've forgotten the How-to's of creating > or updating a port. So my latest fixes have sat here for > 2,3 years. ((I've got small programs that might be useful to > some people, but don't share because the porting is a bear.... > that's a side-bar.)) I didn't accuse anyone and I don't intend to do so. But I don't understand why people abandon everything. And even worse, they refuse new ideas for improvements. I know it may be complicated or whatever. But do you like the current chaotic situation? I am just pointning out a problem and you(in general) try to burry it. > One important q is why aren't packages more widely used? > I have to have at least 5.4 or 5.5 to fetch any pkg. I love > src, but less when it takes hours to download over my ISDN > wire and days to build, say OO. Or firefox. If I want to > see how person X did some function y(), I can grab the source. Well, as I have already mentioned, packages are outdated, unfortunately. And even worse, they are not available for all versions of FreeBSD. > Suggest that, rather than having endless debates about which > should be the standard method of confguration, people make > pro/con lists and present their conclusions. Re modifying > the makefiles, can this be done largely by script? No problem by me. Wanna focus on packages. Do so. But do it effectively. Once again, there is no debate. I am just throwing ideas around. Sideris Michael.