From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 9 05:11:07 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A0AC377F9 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 05:11:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-1.mit.edu [18.9.25.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7E29669 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 05:11:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) X-AuditID: 1209190c-573ff70000007d1a-30-5822aeb5e50d Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.35]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id F8.80.32026.5BEA2285; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 00:05:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id uA955ugK029567; Wed, 9 Nov 2016 00:05:56 -0500 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id uA955qHj014005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 9 Nov 2016 00:05:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2016 23:05:52 -0600 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , NetBSD Users Subject: Re: Improved manual page for ul(1) Message-ID: <20161109050551.GZ91607@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20161106190144.GL91607@kduck.kaduk.org> <87e90ef8-05d2-1480-47ce-cc228fb3fd36@NTLWorld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87e90ef8-05d2-1480-47ce-cc228fb3fd36@NTLWorld.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrLt1nVKEwYYb8hbbN/9jtDh/toXJ 4ueSU8wOzB4zPs1n8Vj4sIfR4+rEbUwBzFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGZvXbmIrWChccWO3SwPj Yv4uRk4OCQETiTUda1i6GLk4hATamCRWfz7PBuFsYJT4v/4rK4RzhUli94seVpAWFgEViRl/ /rGD2GwCahKP9zaDxUUEPCS6/m9lBrGZBZIkHrX8ZQGxhQW0JaZ2rQSL8wKt+7b2LjPE0AWM Escb5jBBJAQlTs58wgLRrCVx499LoDgHkC0tsfwfB0iYU8BB4uihpWwgtqiAskTDjAfMExgF ZiHpnoWkexZC9wJG5lWMsim5Vbq5iZk5xanJusXJiXl5qUW6hnq5mSV6qSmlmxjBoSvJs4Px zBuvQ4wCHIxKPLwC9xUjhFgTy4orcw8xSnIwKYny9s5SihDiS8pPqcxILM6ILyrNSS0+xCjB wawkwvtiOVCONyWxsiq1KB8mJc3BoiTO+9/ta7iQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMVoaDQ0mCt2EtUKNg UWp6akVaZk4JQpqJgxNkOA/QcAOQGt7igsTc4sx0iPwpRkUpcV4PkIQASCKjNA+uF5RaJLL3 17xiFAd6RZg3DaSKB5iW4LpfAQ1mAhpcFaMAMrgkESEl1cCom7a06qjv5k5OThu25dz/Zk5+ dmuSjpnL0a4yrpvsCvrqFzxq7j69IXt2coTTT8F7xUV162zuHL+xSW5m1/7lBTqF026LLfow 5XjhLoaIW037p3arWiieWnHwyFmPOPlQ2xVnkwt3LPerm6N68ItWhY/Gih4RPr5D8a5zZ51b 6/VmTrvUXsafSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAp5OJmAgDAAA= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 05:11:07 -0000 On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 10:17:32AM +0000, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Jonathan de Boyne Pollard: > > > So whither does one submit an improved manual page for ul(1) ? Here's the source: > > > > * http://jdebp.eu./Proposals/ul.1 > > Benjamin Kaduk: > > Somehow I do not think that a 1993 copyright by the Regents is accurate. I am unwilling to commit without some clarification of the copyright status and confirmation of license terms (noting that for new code, we prefer the two-clause BSD license at this point). > > It's actually quite clear and straightforward. You are suggesting that > the copyright declaration should be changed; that is not permitted, > however. The copyright declaration for the UC Regents is entirely > accurate for the (small amount of) existing manual text that's still > there, and retaining it is mandated by the first of the very licence > terms that you are referring to. I took the existing manual and > expanded and corrected it, and the world has my work under the exact > same licence that I had the original, so that the result is not > entangled in BSD Licence Hell; hence the exact same licence remains > there as-is. Leaving the copyright declaration and license unchanged is akin to disclaiming that you hold any copyright in the work, i.e., that only minor non-copyrightable changes were made. I assumed it went without saying that there remains original text the Regents copyright must stay, rather, that there must be an *addition* to the copyright holders. So, which is it? Do you claim copyright on any of the text present, or disclaim it? My point about our project (and the Regents) having gone to the two-clause form remains. > Really, the first reaction should rather be something like "My goodness! > Are all of those bugs really there?" or perhaps "Does anything nowadays > make any use of that wacky lpr feature?" or even "Given then that it can > handle UTF-8 input and output, could ul be fixed to make all of groff's > overstrikes work?". (-: It would be easier to do so if the contribution was provided as a diff. > I haven't found anything that makes use of the lpr feature. Presumably > it dates from a time when ul was once used as a filter for printing. > Back then there was an array of programs: collpr, colcrt, iul, ul, ulpr, > ... Indeed, many interesting historical things have dropped from common use. -Ben