From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Feb 18 21:10:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D964CE398B for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:10:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "holgerdanske.com", Issuer "holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F22E1907 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:10:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:TLSv1.2:Kx=ECDH:Au=RSA:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:09:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Laptop recommendation To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: From: David Christensen Message-ID: <140316c2-a061-de66-7e1f-212ac88f235e@holgerdanske.com> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:10:17 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:10:00 -0000 On 02/18/17 06:08, Peter Harrison via freebsd-questions wrote: > I'm looking for a laptop recommendation. I'm current running 10.3-RELEASE > on a Thinkpad x200s which is fine but I'm looking for something lighter > with a better screen and longer battery life, in other words something a > bit more modern. Doesn't have to be brand new (ebay is my friend). > > Can anyone recommend something? I've been quite loyal to Thinkpads over the > years, but happy to move on if there's a better option. Working wireless is > a must, suspend/resume would be nice but isn't a dealbreaker. The challenge is determining a priori if a computer (including a laptop) contains components/ chips that are supported under your FOSS of choice -- processor, graphics, sound, networking (wired and wireless), etc.. This means identifying the components/ chips contained in the computer and then trying to figure out if your FOSS of choice supports those components/ chips. Both are difficult questions to answer. There are a few web sites that try to gather this information: http://linux-laptop.net/ https://wiki.freebsd.org/Laptops I have found that Intel components often work under FOSS, because Intel provides FOSS example drivers for many of their products. But, beware of products and technologies that are joint ventures between Intel and other companies. For example Atom chips with PowerVR GPU graphics, systems with Intel/ NVIDIA Optimus graphics, etc.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Optimus For DIY desktop/ workstation machines, in the past I bought Intel desktop boards. They work well with FOSS and I've yet to see one fail. Unfortunately, Intel no longer makes such (superseded by NUC). But, Intel still makes server boards. For laptops, I prefer Dell: 1. The spec sheet, user manual, and/or service manual usually lists what choices are/ were available for various components. For example, my laptop: http://downloads.dell.com/manuals/common/inspiron-6400x_owner%27s%20manual_en-us.pdf http://downloads.dell.com/manuals/common/inspiron-6400x_service%20manual_en-us.pdf 2. Given the Service Tag for a specific unit, the Dell Support web site lists what components the computer shipped with. For example, my laptop: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/servicetag/C86YXB1/configuration But, such often leaves me wanting. For example, in addition to the CPU, what are components -- notably the motherboard -- are in this assembly? MK062 1 BASE (ASSEMBLY OR GROUP), NOTEBOOK, DUAL CORE YONAH, T2250, 6400/E1505 And, is this the WiFi card? If so, what chip is on it? WH650 1 MODULE, CARD (CIRCUIT), NETWORK, 1390, UNITED STATES, BLACK, MOBILE 2007 E.g. Dell's BOM breakdown is for assembly/ servicing, and often lacks details needed for FOSS compatibility checking. 3. There are vendors that provide information, service, refurbish, sell, etc., Dell products and components: https://www.parts-people.com/ 4. The Dell service manuals provide step-by-step instructions for disassembling products, replacing components, and re-assembling products. This is especially helpful for laptops, which can be challenging finger puzzles. Once you have component and/or chip part numbers, then you have to determine if your FOSS of choice supports that hardware. This boils down to STFW, RTFM, using forums, using mailing lists, grepping release notes and source code, etc.. When I bought my laptop back in 2007, I blew it -- it has a wireless networking card with a Broadcom chipset that is not FOSS-friendly. Debian has a work-around using proprietary firmware, but I would prefer a laptop with 100% FOSS-supported hardware. Lenovo seems to be well-regarded for FOSS. They seem to use a single top-level part number. This may be a benefit, if you can make contact with someone with the exact same part number running your FOSS of choice. Probably the best strategy is to boot a live CD of your FOSS of choice on whatever computer you are considering buying, and then take a look at dmesg, etc.. Typically, this limits your purchasing options to the local geographic market. But, you might be able to find a savvy eBay seller who will send you dmesg output. This is not a new question. Over the years, people have tried starting businesses dealing in hardware for FOSS and/or existing businesses have offered products with FOSS. They never seem to last. STFW and see what you can find currently. Let us know if/ what you buy and how well it supports FreeBSD. David