From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 03:30:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3964A106566B for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bahamasfranks@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1281F8FC1A for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bahamasfranks@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so4208019wfg.7 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; bh=7mFiU0T515iKVHCPYDUnOcB/qiFNsuwupW3TzMTyh7I=; b=tT/hyaQWuRPrTLHBg1QkL+JoJumES8gFV3VtnBVbcw3bxdTu8tZK2uVx8q5pvtD2CB wGTnww+if5P3MgMl+//H3MamQ2DuF1fddB5kh3KM2hWvlD1zqSMbJ0lrxGBf5VIicZU4 Ihwe+8AHx8BDvJ1Vp1Orj/VQ8qvo6Ccl9f0gg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :x-google-sender-auth; b=vey2NPs9857gmUesWgyKF3gPeQKkuU/wHmKHPkw0S697wJQapvFktjiEdU1UPChFcc 2EtJnJMNa+cEPKkHZVi74M/lGbuw+eUyEROmCI5lZnd3h1JryCVdgFdRS74BYBcSOtj8 5CvctlE6pF4pPpsnkjkMlgjyR2jUKX9KPaWWg= Received: by 10.142.12.14 with SMTP id 14mr4464899wfl.308.1216092636672; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.162.8 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <539c60b90807142030u506394e7jdcdedd965ec16706@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:30:36 -0700 From: "Steve Franks" Sender: bahamasfranks@gmail.com To: "FreeBSD Mailing List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 10728e87a5f4aacf Subject: OT-ish: fedora->crash->single user fsck; FreeBSD->crash->smooth recovery X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevefranks@ieee.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:30:37 -0000 So, after much tough consideration, I've put Fedora on my laptop. FreeBSD just won't do a large-ish number of desktop things (I have 5 FreeBSD systems from 1-10 years old and not a single one will suspend correctly, even after following the instructions in the handbook. Just unacceptable for a laptop. No flash in firefox, I hate flash, but it's crippling not to have. Lots of unsupported hardware, etc. [I know, should have bought a thinkpad, not a bloody compaq]). Having ran it for about a week, I've got to say, I've really been taking for granted the stability of FreeBSD. As people frequently observe, it just doesn't crash (unless I plug in a weird flash drive, camera, etc., and I shouldn't be plugging those things into my servers anyway). Yea FreeBSD! Fedora has crashed at least 5 times in one week. I guess the demands of running user applications are just too much (interestingly, it never crashes doing wine, which seems to run everything these days; most crashes seem related to abusing X (i.e. changing resolution, dual monitors, etc)). One other thought on FreeBSD vs. Fedora: dudes, rpm dependencies are junk (or put differently, our ports maintainers are saints)! Every 3rd install I have to manually find some .so file. Worse yet, try linking libc.a! What joker took it out of the path! I've got to install an rpm to rebuild the kernel!? What about exporting a default CFLAGS? FreeBSD was built to compile, not just serve! Now I understand why dumb questions on the FreeBSD list occasionally engender riddicule - linux is dumbbed down almost as bad as windows, whereas FreeBSD gives me a sense of freedom from stuff I don't need, and quick builds for that which I do (except acpi ;). Ok, I'll quit ranting and actually ask a question: The real big thing that suprised me (about Fedora), is that every damn time it crashes, I have to sit through 20 minutes of fsck when it boots, then it cries, gags, and throws me into a root console to run fsck again, manually, for 20 more minutes. I'm thinking about symlinking fsck to a rather dirtier word on the Fedora box. This has only once ever happened on FreeBSD and I had a gmirror on a bad disk controller. What with the crappy usb sticks & such, I've probably crashed my FreeBSD boxes 10-50 times, and it always boots right up and does an fsck in the background. So compare, one manual fsck in, say, 10 computer-years, vs. 5 in one week. I'm about ready to ditch Fedora and spend the time sending logs to freebsd-acpi, manually configuring amd, etc, etc... Is ext2/3 really that bad? Steve