Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:31:42 -0600 From: "Mike Meyer" <mwm-dated-1016245903.949c42@mired.org> To: "Nickolay A.Kritsky" <nkritsky@internethelp.ru> Cc: "Mike Meyer" <mwm-dated-1016218688.35ba93@mired.org>, Paul Robinson <paul@iconoplex.co.uk>, Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, Peter Leftwich <Hostmaster@Video2Video.Com>, Miguel Mendez <flynn@energyhq.homeip.net>, Cliff Sarginson <csfbsd@raggedclown.net>, <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>, Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> Subject: Re: Re[6]: http://users.uk.freebsd.org/~juha/ Message-ID: <15500.5902.527507.760058@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <471838052.20020310224340@internethelp.ru> References: <20020306191854.C2150-100000@earl-grey.cloud9.net> <3C86C11C.8A31C8BB@mindspring.com> <15494.52528.125952.145716@guru.mired.org> <3C86D7D6.C11D7E@mindspring.com> <15494.58407.33613.314390@guru.mired.org> <8457986570.20020307135407@internethelp.ru> <15495.57385.993281.469551@guru.mired.org> <20020308113108.G32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <15497.12783.643757.175742@guru.mired.org> <20020309144158.K32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <15498.28088.976841.7441@guru.mired.org> <3C8A75A1.C567BB02@mindspring.com> <15498.34475.395754.932338@guru.mired.org> <3C8AFE22.72C005FA@mindspring.com> <3C8B0473.D544FB8@mindspring.com> <20020310164125.P32897@iconoplex.co.uk> <1136028208.20020310182327@internethelp.ru> <1505738070.20020310181837@internethelp.ru> <15499.44224.110718.925695@guru.mired.org> <471838052.20020310224340@internethelp.ru>
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Hello Nickolay, Nickolay A. Kritsky <nkritsky@internethelp.ru> types: > MM> So you're basically stealing computer time for "joy riding". If you > MM> really wanted to learn about those things, you could probably do it > MM> without breaking the law. Most of the sysadmins I've known wouldn't > MM> mind you trying to break in, so long as you told them about it before > MM> and afterwards. In fact, the policy for the more englightened of them > MM> was that the first person to report a hole granting a privilege was to > MM> give the person that privilege permanently. > Sorry, but my English is not very good. My dictionary translates > "joy-riding" as something like "stealing other people's car and > driving it as a madman". Did I understand you right? If yes, than I > think that you got me wrong. That's close, but not quite what I meant. Drop "driving like a madman." The example would be that I can't afford a Ferrari, so I'll still one - well, around here it'd be a Humvee - and ride around in it for a while. Not necessarily like a madman, though that's normally part of the deal, as you've just commited grand larceny, so traffic tickets are relatively minor. > Hacking other people's bsystems isn't more > interesting because it breaks some laws. It is more interesting, just > because it is harder. I like hard work. What about "most sysadmins > wouldn't mind... etc" - let's make an experiment. I will make such > proposal to one or more sysadmin chosen randomly, and see what they > would answer. I am a newbie in computer science and haven't tried > such scenario yet. That could be interesting!!! Fair enough. Here's the deal: You have to offer to try and break into their systems. If you do, you will not change any files or read any files other than system configuration information. You will also provide them with full details of how you did it, including anything you did to raise your privileges once you are in the system. Their side of the bargain is that if you follow the above rules, they will treat you as an unpaid employee, so you're not doing anything illegal. Should you not follow those rules, then you're subject to prosecution to the full extent of the law. As an aside, even if you were an employee and broke those rules, you could still be fired and prosecuted under computer abuse laws in some areas. I've offered that exact deal to self-proclaimed "hackers" at times. None of them ever took me up on it. > >> BTW, do you really think, that all that is called "illegal" must be > >> avoided by any means possible? No offense meant. I just want to > >> understand your way of thinking? > MM> No, I don't think that's the case. On the other hand, I know what I > MM> had to go through to get access to strange hardware, and it just > MM> wasn't that painfull. All it took was some balls and respect. > I think I will change my first question. If stealing cpu cycles wasn't > illegal, would you do this to get access to strange hardware? No, I wouldn't. Just like if killing someone weren't illegal, I wouldn't commit a murder. Or if stealing cars weren't illegal, I wouldn't go steal a Humvee. I have to much respect for the property of others to do those things, and to me the cycles of a computer that belongs to someone are as much persons property as the computer itself. <mike -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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