From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 16 21:10:04 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D446916A4CE; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:10:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from arginine.spc.org (arginine.spc.org [83.167.185.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E1243D31; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:10:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bms@spc.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5B2653F8; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:09:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from arginine.spc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (arginine.spc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 84989-01; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:09:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from empiric.dek.spc.org (dhcp52.icir.org [192.150.187.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6A365371; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:09:36 +0100 (BST) Received: by empiric.dek.spc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 973496301; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:10:00 -0700 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20050416211000.GF784@empiric.icir.org> References: <20050415173711.I658@beagle.kn.op.dlr.de> <20050416150810.GD5452@empiric.icir.org> <86ll7i30mc.fsf@xps.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <86ll7i30mc.fsf@xps.des.no> cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: Harti Brandt Subject: Re: De-orbitting ATM-HARP X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:10:04 -0000 On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 10:52:43PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Uh? PPP uses netgraph, which has its own socket thingy. Postscript. It struck my mind that you were possibly thinking of the netgraph-based, kernel-space implementation of PPP, in particular the ng_pppoe node. This only knows about the PPP-over-Ethernet encapsulation. If someone were to write the necessary node to support the PPP-over-ATM encapsulation, then yes, we probably could make NATM go away, but then Netgraph would be the only means of working with ATM virtual circuits under FreeBSD, which has debatable merits. HARP may be old and crufty, NATM is but a small part of it, but it would be the last piece of ATM code which we have in common with the other BSDs. In terms of code quality and design, I've found it far nicer to work with than the equivalent Linux offering. Besides, I think being able to have native ADSL connectivity on a *BSD machine is a good thing. Deprecating NATM for the 6.0 lifetime would affect several users, developers and committers who are working towards this. I'd be more than happy to see ng_pppoa go in for 6.0, though. [That would be an excellent idea - being able to run MPD on top of ATM would let us do native xDSL channel bonding on FreeBSD.] Just my 2c (about to change back to pence), BMS