Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 02:13:22 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Mininal skills Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB0104E74C96FDA086AF18C0F8F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
>Are you actually using FreeBSD? Before even thinking of contributing, why don't you give yourself 1 or 2 years of solid use of the operating system? Install, uninstall, break, fix, reinstall, configure. You can do this in a VM first and then maybe on real hardware. You don't go from n00b to developer in one day. I started using FreeBSD about 2 months ago and have purchased books like absolute freebsd and have learned a lot. I can set up a desktop environment that has all the programs I need, so that's not the problem. It's that I want to progress past simple editing of configuration files and minor system administration tasks like the crontab. I want to try and stick with FreeBSD as my main and probably mostly only OS. Meaning, I would like to skip the ubuntu step. It seems as though the FreeBSD docs is the way to go. Just read it over a few times, as well as the porters handbook. I'll get straight to it so I can contribute to ports and docs, even if it takes a couple years!!! > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 2:05 AM, Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 22:54, Brandon Helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I've searched around FreeBSD documentation and have found that most of the contributions require at least minimal programming skills. My question is whether or not there is anything I can contribute or maintain for freebsd without any skills. What direction should I take my education if I wish to be able to maintain a port. Is c++ programming required? What else is required? You have posted a few similar threads on this subject but: > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Are you actually using FreeBSD? Before even thinking of contributing, why don't you give yourself 1 or 2 years of solid use of the operating system? Install, uninstall, break, fix, reinstall, configure. You can do this in a VM first and then maybe on real hardware. You don't go from n00b to developer in one day. -- Ottavio Caruso _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 08:15:01 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C0432F992 for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12olkn2107.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.22.107]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49cz902DFDz45GL for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:14:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NPBiSo4Ak5G2pIf0J226DHY6G6UQCjUm5tIqnwB4D4r1ueGezN9NtNnS3PTPEJCZs9kl2hqk/mqG0jD0a3v5jwG5qVuoEZOIbnhe8LnsQQJLK8AT1TXOhl0lA0dklKAyp8SSW6BKB0P2TA5BIeMOClQqrXAqPWeoE8Bg6I/DPOQMtd8meVwfAmAoTw8TZUIG2YJghlY50BNA5zHUsBJMGc+32d8Ak+ZuViEl3LWKetgscyPZlyp+J+Sl2siFdgi4C4KukGOGK1d2LjTF6rYrkNzLpim+abY6Wzo8lYwTd1JtVYYT9UrIe78jFyfwhtiSQyrVKjXaZ+QQPkgV7F1TEQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=5eh5Wfa0nT5Aw722z12DaxdDF2PuNzFE5oKLU/jN1qM=; b=nWQsHPW02xzzM7T9B0cklQ9X5MGnTvqCr2xvsMoE/ojodqMlJ2q5S/R3hSp+jF79mqkPhAnvA7xWBz7wTWJXN2tnqg4M4369Q1mCF7cSRl2q+2W/jPrxPNRgDDGo9EyiV14twFjpn/nkuWZiVlkVs9c2umiH816NtCC3F8nt+Bd0tWFjh1O9V43CwSJ2VpOTA2iBuKlZ6ULlKCXOK229v/0hVXfXyh+yenrDgEv9quTTeUJnc6o4ZEMNtb7ZRjWbzfOG7oFGA/NAcFhNGOBufxkZR9uPUcd8o8RITG/PTSJJjbsCoFMXZt6xyWMJX4pEMFLv320PXeFD9rfXDwKgfQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=5eh5Wfa0nT5Aw722z12DaxdDF2PuNzFE5oKLU/jN1qM=; b=Lm2G76nWRFmYYiIYVX3U+M3xEV9QU0q/2x46LW8oJTGJqvHDujAQdq71KiPcuj2hTVw9sNgiNqN18yYfuQ6vMKFBk0/LqoavTNebJZbl9n1DQtMlvz9cTVfJQepe09BJhfOXgq7K/PSXeWsSV7ZK9TLBKN6430kcR6gofoEul90zPi8yjrlp+2QX7Q42CWOPMCMkpvEhjm6WDbzWnawfSwjCLo2P8yIxn7eLTFSYil4LIx1hmqwVL10C+Q8C1yl5WvfcZgEANJE0fpvORZf08bzdHV9rYq2METwDlLUiApqPYFo0dskfOy3B2CdnE4SNLwIAZNOmToFJ3sKhZkDA4A== Received: from DM6NAM12FT021.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::50) by DM6NAM12HT011.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.8; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:14:58 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::49) by DM6NAM12FT021.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::476) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3088.9 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:14:58 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:C8F73C800F0829F01439917FFD83848ED75B2AB24720F7318C2409B45046FC61; UpperCasedChecksum:116CFF4F2EDE0403E9EDEBA07A1B80064E6F30D4B8CA2F6EDCF9595A8F4E7614; SizeAsReceived:9108; Count:47 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:14:58 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 02:14:56 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com> Cc: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> Subject: Re: Minimal skills X-ClientProxiedBy: CY4PR04CA0041.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:c6::27) To CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:7a::16) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <7fe3579f-8ff7-4777-8ca9-31015530bcad@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.0.39] (184.96.131.37) by CY4PR04CA0041.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:c6::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:14:58 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <7fe3579f-8ff7-4777-8ca9-31015530bcad@localhost> X-TMN: [ElI1Q7Cr4SMmOx97zoD/gDDBMaoX0lRH] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 47 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: a9fa5add-402a-4b39-d970-08d8085f5f3f X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM6NAM12HT011: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 9O71K5eVXneZ6hXIhReOE6s0Hh0bdbr8FOrxl0u8P9QtU3vZc9tN+hWRf3b/RJrIe84KO2ZtIj7DpYQIB9qrLMKoFyqKmPtssDPogtdf1VKhQh/u0Q5eChYz74yisI5Hu0HNaLmEx6bHZmPJSutN0/b70O8mt/DHEvHoKmXvFW7R8XiWzdNE9OzagNmqFAcsLmw1DFxdfU79d23inEml13vLaEs6bgvVIfrX8LhXiPBBJQbPqMWSGKySkVgiYsSk X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: YI83+DrUq54CsVEZFfOJnEZFp8ACfDFwfRmCdHAZae3YSEgWNLkhvhDSrMmbl33fp5L0xIeITaJ1l90uMnPY5FLQreH83GUL/7s3s831swPRtfpNxtvqGrAyMWKTOANTpoVuAv3rFnT4BZ8xWDT/kg== X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a9fa5add-402a-4b39-d970-08d8085f5f3f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2020 08:14:58.9208 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6NAM12HT011 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49cz902DFDz45GL X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=Lm2G76nW; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.22.107 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.85 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.001]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.981]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.22.107:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.22.107:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.872]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[184.96.131.37:received]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[freebsd.org,rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:15:01 -0000 I started using FreeBSD about 2 months ago and have purchased books like absolute freebsd and have learned a lot. I can set up a desktop environment that has all the programs I need, so that's not the problem. It's that I want to progress past simple editing of configuration files and minor system administration tasks like the crontab. I want to try and stick with FreeBSD as my main and probably mostly only OS. Meaning, I would like to skip the ubuntu step. It seems as though the FreeBSD docs is the way to go. Just read it over a few times, as well as the porters handbook. I'll get straight to it so I can contribute to ports and docs, even if it takes a couple years!!! > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 1:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:41:34 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >If you don't mind, I'd suggest to dedicate a workstation PC >or a laptop for FreeBSD, while having a second computer (or >a smartphone) for web access (documtnation, mailing lists, >or web forums). On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 18:27:40 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >For self-learning, the starting point is to obtain a working personal >computer (PC) and Internet access. I suggest a Windows or macOS >desktop or laptop computer [...] Do not make any dramatic changes to >the PC, and do not attempt to install FreeBSD or any other operating >system (e.g. "dual boot"). [...] >Install virtualization software on your PC (I suggest VirtualBox). >Create a virtual machine (VM). Install FreeBSD on the VM (see chapter >3 of AF3E). Don't worry if you make mistakes during installation -- >delete the virtual machine and start over. Once you have a working >FreeBSD VM, shut it down and take a snapshot. Hi, it's not easy to decide which of those two approaches is the better one. I would say it's better to install FreeBSD on bare metal. While the recommendation to use VirtualBox is very good, since it's the easiest to use virtual machine, I dislike this idea for two reasons. To learn how to maintain a computer, it's wise to learn the basics regarding hardware and software, so it's way better to avoid a virtual machine that fakes hardware and getting your hands dirty by touching real hardware. Btw. starting with a desktop tower PC and a screwdriver IMO is better, than starting with a laptop, since IMO you literally should get in touch with the hardware. I started with hardware modified C64 and Atari ST computers. In the beginning a friend helped me with the hardware. The Atari ST had a 80286 hardware emulator and was running DR DOS. I learned different levels of programming BASIC, PASCAL, Assembler, Turbo C++. Later I migrated to a Windows 98 and user-friendly Linux distro dual-boot PC, before I used FreeBSD and a user- centric (non-user-friendly) Linux distro. I do not program with programming languages anymore and I do not modify computer hardware using a soldering iron anymore. Nowadays I only write shell scripts and I only piece together ready-made computer modules. A desktop tower PC's motherboard has got slots to connect hardware cards, RAM etc. and shell scripts are quite powerful. It's good that I used programming languages and a soldering iron in the past, but not necessarily needed to maintain a modern computer. Btw. one of my few contributions to FLOSS communities is helping novices with Ubuntu Linux. My recommendation before starting with a BSD or not user-friendly Linux distro is to start with a user-friendly Linux distro. A dual-boot with e.g. Windows isn't necessarily required. Consider to use Ubuntu first. While for some domains I'm using an iPad, e.g. for drawing, the idea that a beginner should have a Smartphone or tablet computer is only useful to get information/help via Intern et. A second PC or laptop would allow to download and e.g. burn software, something that might be even more helpful in some dead ends a greenhorn could experience. OTOH neighbours or friends might assist, if you need more than a Smartphone or tablet computer to fix an issue with your FreeBSD (or maybe Ubuntu ;) computer. Regards, Ralf _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 08:15:16 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624A432F929 for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12olkn2098.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.21.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49cz9H4VwMz45Tb for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WdOExPe4SXt7EpLbaRwMYv9BiBcIBQj+QfOm+OWzUwbpbNOnCC8XSvw4lmB74LwTLiksYEguh49MwylxCus7oSFsuwdm/9HF5I/myKcfNyHHYapAk7XsoUIlZnlOHmV+IhGMgyJc3cm9hA2/zb5GujCYO+3/B2tfZ9bZrwa3INS1vkba1Zjk0vyDsP/TGtirdMQsAytZCK4GHrsjS2T6WmGPCVTGAfLTX/msLZ8WjX6LQP4ZME2+3UuJu9hICPyG7DfC+vhJ+Pukges6i6l86ax9hyjKiVysqbuQQC0zs6nvmoAzGzsq+JmW15VkxqeNTIqHdzN0jCCKildbf1pKnA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=osM793nrR4j5fv80k/itp7MFjqStk8s/k9ACaKp33sU=; b=FXleaCJht1g1TjwpjIQ7ius1X/+3ATssB1D69o6n0NXKfG1r26/d+4SVqc98HC6lAwZqyVcknVJgUCySb+ijfgMzyuF8Mml7Wo6dyzdcCgLBxYnHW/xptFR3rbeMNR5dJIe/iXQ9bBIlDn4lGxY5YEK65kF2gHFUpF7Xm7+/8MWSfgxaLRWTSv9NIWnmtjfPVjWMwKf3rdNtPWBiV5VW9DlmPQlHE9/CUp/oxnZI9yEr3TdOalY3UhACd3f/2VQaUoar1h3A60f+beOfU4HrD8AtsXFKnRLccWfmauNYrtbXFrzbKuboWI2Idsv6ewfKOuRHAngjIgd+Jxly7S1vCA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=osM793nrR4j5fv80k/itp7MFjqStk8s/k9ACaKp33sU=; b=A+Yd0//X2e2ibe0k0SFhTSKd/htJW0SPfIMANbLFdBLe25MyJfUqgsMatdXHJfZBbcrJlP9PdmPRQbE+XFz62WYaCj7kCAZn8wvt+lmbcJ1Ly8sM9Ke8pOfa0MuIGIqfdIV+IsP3zOGM8vcuVdj12JB8S1PNN9M7PBh+ZkKSLpvMYhi9qO3d+unqzN8NDBaA6Ge99DOlDOfkQKKHBYPbpXNS7J8T+/5kClfacjikuXOLRentOypHVKECgKZFmqtZYgAicfoLdTbBplayAzgnQDkr+nIf+2EepzWc6VfIpELknDXrvvYqfQFRa3HTgP8QYWAbZzyE8rAvUhl5lq5LLQ== Received: from DM6NAM12FT021.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::53) by DM6NAM12HT135.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::316) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.8; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:14 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::49) by DM6NAM12FT021.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc64::476) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3088.9 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:14 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:B0DA48F746DD66B5AD57EE6A1A5030DB9B63C0021117936A1BF474C38DD6B8F1; UpperCasedChecksum:D36A79B4565A15D31E52CD9B1A8F81749666C56AF98D493FFEA70FFD5EFB247F; SizeAsReceived:9223; Count:47 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:14 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 02:15:12 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB0104B335164B0F4DEBF5D3D4F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> Subject: Re: Minimal skills X-ClientProxiedBy: CY4PR21CA0006.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:dd::16) To CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:7a::16) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <9be32f96-c787-4de4-8dfd-8b0719dba661@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.0.39] (184.96.131.37) by CY4PR21CA0006.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:dd::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3088.4 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:15:14 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <9be32f96-c787-4de4-8dfd-8b0719dba661@localhost> X-TMN: [+CpvuSNXReWLqDJIQLmBHpeNr84wTRg8] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 47 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 1f470552-a3e6-440f-68a3-08d8085f68ba X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM6NAM12HT135: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: dWuR9TfR1JtPiPcHZ+agVI4w+QonjF2U5QJX2wzDnQPEEJsdTN9X30hPN9SosHuyeorjMv099K1bj8x5nPTFV/c3J9PWR+Vm/I8F/QBPPbvLipGdLLRfumD6WoNsCmHZyQqSH4KkcnQouWhiWfaAU/5uoWt60RCRQoggh2CzEo60we9ENUsIXjSBF3CHDo2DQAVe7GTsFwO5hVLTDMsTmdTGpw7KcUpJ6/tFM2niysjOmiUCCes3/SjwugytKzZc X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: hZrjRfk+aXb2Q+bXgZLym4BmMwZ24awrv9uHkJkM9785UQhyGoCHgo61/YPRYMwjtzBTKuWptfEV7tcfcuEqpPFWYz3YsD+iFG517EiF/JUTGGz9LtU7NIuqpDWB7bfoR8bGc8V7ekQYkZDauX6fsQ== X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1f470552-a3e6-440f-68a3-08d8085f68ba X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2020 08:15:14.7685 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6NAM12HT135 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49cz9H4VwMz45Tb X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=A+Yd0//X; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.21.98 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.987]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.21.98:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.21.98:from]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[184.96.131.37:received]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.975]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:15:16 -0000 I started using FreeBSD about 2 months ago and have purchased books like absolute freebsd and have learned a lot. I can set up a desktop environment that has all the programs I need, so that's not the problem. It's that I want to progress past simple editing of configuration files and minor system administration tasks like the crontab. I want to try and stick with FreeBSD as my main and probably mostly only OS. Meaning, I would like to skip the ubuntu step. It seems as though the FreeBSD docs is the way to go. Just read it over a few times, as well as the porters handbook. I'll get straight to it so I can contribute to ports and docs, even if it takes a couple years!!! > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 12:23 AM, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> wrote: > > > On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:56:37 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > Thank you, I'm minimally familiar with the port files but I know > where and what they are, so I think it would be a great starting > point. I think so, too. The handbook sections about updating and using the ports collection is a real treasure trove. > So is this kind of contribution limited to submitting patches or > is there some kind of other persistent communication with the > "upstream", whatever that means. Depends on the project / port. I would probably check the docs that come with the port and see how they ("upstream" - those who write and maintain the initial program) would like the contributors to communicate. For FreeBSD (as the OS), patches are the easiest way of adding something new; they can be submitted with a bug report and request for inclusion. > Could you tell me what this tool "diff" is. A diff (the tool, the process, and its result) means "difference". For example, if you find a manpag e where the explanation for a certain option is missing, you take the original file, make a working copy of it, change that working copy, and create a file that contains the difference (i. e., the diff, also often called the patch) between the original and the updated version. This diff can then be sent to the FreeBSD team, and they will apply it; the next issue of FreeBSD will then contain the updated manpage instead of the original one. See "man diff" and "man patch" for details. Persons who have proven to be trusted contributors will get direct access to the source code repository: they can check in their changes by themselves. Here is a simplified outline of the process: # cd /usr/src/bin/ls # cp ls.1 ls.1.orig # vim ls.1 ... you make your changes ... :wq # diff ls.1 ls.1.orig > ls.1.diff Now ls.1.diff is what will be submitted. On the FreeBSD team's side, something like this happens: # cd /usr/src/bin/ls # patch < ls.1.diff # svn commit Yes, this is actually _very_ simplified. :-) > I' bet I'll have to learn it myself but if you could give me > an overview and familiarize me that would be great too. You will definitely have to learn the required tools, but in my opinion, that's worth doing it, and documentation contributors are one of the most important people in a project. Never undervalue good documentation. > Right now I already have dedicated a PC to FreeBSD. I'm quite > intimidated by the editing of configuration files but have > managed to install and configure fluxbox and other simple > GUI's. That is an excellent starting point. So more or less, you already have the foundation for further work. You can refine such an environment by choosing what window manager or desktop environment fits your needs best, what programs (web browsers, editors, PDF viewers and so on) you like best, and tailor the installation for optimal use. > I'm currently working on making it a mail server but am stuck > for now. Why do you want t o make a PC (I assume it is intended to be used as a workstation) a mail _server_? Not that this is impossible - don't get me wrong! -, but what is the reason? I would even say it's probably better to install a MUA (a mail user agent, an "email program", a mailer) so you can use it to conveniently (!) read and write mails. There are many GUI MUAs that you can use, or if you prefer, you can use a TUI (text-mode based) mailer in an X terminal, if that is your choice. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with installing and using Thunderbird, the de-facto standard mailer nowadays. > Other than simple configurations like firewalls or jails or > virtualbox I find FreeBSD difficult too learn. Everything worth learning might look hard at the beginning. But always remember: If you feel learning is hard, that's just a sign that your brain is _actually_ learning, i. e., it does what you want it to do. The brain likes learning. > I'll work on understanding port files and sources as my nex t step. The Porter's Handbook provides a great overview. You can see it in action with your installed ports tree. You should also understand the purpose and basic use of Subversion (svn), as version control is a significant aspect of working both with the ports collection and the system sources, if you want to do more than just using it to install stuff. The answers to questions like "What do I have to do?" mostly depend on _you_ answering the question "What do you want to do?" ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 08:19:53 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A4532FADD for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:19:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49czGb68jRz45yQ for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:19:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: mLXLhHsVM1nO.0HDAoIjaNK9SzkQDNKGuX5D6KzOTN2PYfOo.BZxXvMIYcz_gtm OqdwwAtzcQAIr0acEnwtJB0NB4SG5QT3Pxply_2vg5hsFxXMTh32Ymf7wH4sFWzyNM.._wpfOeIr EFkHQDAu8fA7PCon.9w3eutB.RsJcIkjyhP7nlzkYSqa4a85hZWrwivDUCNg6IHCpQpsg66hKq03 WXHVMMaubWmpbHXIn__AUG_WqHTZGB6j9NAWFYXKtC5oAGLq5w9Lf4LveW.k3W4RSwOl_QUGYlWy 30gxUvhQKdS_ku_dyK0TtiTtP.rG4CFjweubiWBtaff4MnhgvPgAVqBvzNXIZnKk6XdTvdu22KJK uAOBLnWVLy0n7lhbW0tKmuPqCcDKXaXC2evkwSIXZNSMfAUx7FbtEhR6SecA9mLHbuYDiLWPj8UN 34QlN4EbmMv_jHsHtb.Se_97iPd5NYO4AfbNQq1rSkptnUQKtedk2nl6gvX38nnd7iI3SRWiUMEA 8Ans1gu.JG2XhQZ13yqfvsEpaYM4pY4JOkPzcmsvNxYC774T.jjzqju4w0B_1g60JUwZoO4eUqKk vgV1bFeANmSU2aqEjGZuG6FgPWOu6_ffHOFxl1HYf55l4RMR2JpZ6VCUa6KQrLp2y3fm.Tefzynv HmAycJ0PBfBmVAyumct1W8m8Rs7Kxmp8bxkalyFcprGKZT4.aIvLozAYPM486gsea0di4_v_uH9E eBLVtBlGfZkwiuFDqWOHviVdCXwAoBRWGshvD52DggFL6Ia9xnRPTrQjqOCGpxTaOoMDKiDYk7sk 3.5_6XgW7l19T2QTG6s2eyoCDmbUn0bD5Ml74euCUtHjCUePJtrsHF41Dp2rfUCbhgMRGLblWSmJ GNfMnffLHm.pA_truLzP7UfJN6ikDaWmfJs7EEFVnHlmuUW_6augek3zA9SDJ0pdx6td6rfUJYMN lnHyRjJvlw_2FBnAk9Lol21pnyDxu1159Fs5fpx0ELkpF.KHfFW3JCAZKDKPUU8OORH3UWbymRp5 mvyy5OOLnI8bAVaLI1PE9k2t9tCL3LdSokSNWnP7h.Yp9VT6OzhGhYoVSydO8zb9ddXQI22gFZZd gcI73TlFuSOxoZXrte_Hsjml0p8elfhp4O12sXQZL1fujP.iQYdr2zos7Tgj5bjaOd4T6_nFOS3a hTlBmi511ZjWln5uxMmxl4MRQ9F65.WuaW1A13_BCGCmjaOyXfE95rAt8gHiq6s4PExsCgzZebc8 _bV4V964ZpYPSzDhlJdjnOQS0iJU2aq5jGjgd9RONb7qOy5_T_ZTMIgZiZztyaICiG68FcX0M8ZM eqGb9xDZ6KOSJtswuVMandnufOFczEY_nAOkIX3tMI0nT5m23Yj58J7PH_uMugsqdKQHRe53Fn8C MBGKSMElT8tZmCxuVMaUEGg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:19:49 +0000 Received: by smtp422.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7360b287b2733db4cd57fcb9c4571c91; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:19:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 10:19:52 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <20200604101952.4e13fe6e@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200604082304.fe7d3d80.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB010470EB8E75DF42106CDD1AF9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604082304.fe7d3d80.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49czGb68jRz45yQ X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.51 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.018]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.016]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.178.145:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.178.145:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 08:19:53 -0000 On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:23:04 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:56:37 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: >> diff An example of basic shell commands, done on GNU Linux bash, but it's not really different to FreeBSD and/or another shell ;). [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ echo "1234" > file_a.txt; echo "1234" >> file_a.txt [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ echo "1234" > file_b.txt; echo "5678" >> file_b.txt [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ cat file_a.txt 1234 1234 [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ cat file_b.txt 1234 5678 [rocketmouse@archlinux tmp]$ diff file_a.txt file_b.txt 2c2 < 1234 --- > 5678 >Why do you want to make a PC (I assume it is intended to be >used as a workstation) a mail _server_? If this is the domain the OP likes, it's probably a good project to learn, right after having basic skills in writing shell scripts.
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CY4PR19MB0104E74C96FDA086AF18C0F8F9890>