From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 10 10:40:01 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF285106566B for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:40:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pdegoeje@service2media.com) Received: from s2m-is-001.service2media.com (rev-130-102.virtu.nl [217.114.102.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB628FC1A for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:39:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pieter-dev-linux.localnet ([10.0.1.3] RDNS failed) by s2m-is-001.service2media.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:27:53 +0100 From: Pieter de Goeje Organization: Service2Media To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:27:53 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.12.2 (Linux/2.6.31-19-generic; KDE/4.3.2; i686; ; ) References: <4B6F9A8D.4050907@langille.org> <4B718EBB.6080709@acm.poly.edu> <4B723609.8010802@langille.org> In-Reply-To: <4B723609.8010802@langille.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201002101127.53444.pieter@service2media.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2010 10:27:53.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4375D00:01CAAA3B] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "Peter C. Lai" , Charles Sprickman , Boris Kochergin , Dan Langille Subject: Re: hardware for home use large storage X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:40:01 -0000 On Wednesday 10 February 2010 05:28:57 Dan Langille wrote: > Boris Kochergin wrote: > > Peter C. Lai wrote: > >> On 2010-02-09 06:37:47AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > >>> Charles Sprickman wrote: > >>>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010, Dan Langille wrote: > >>>> Also, it seems like > >>>> people who use zfs (or gmirror + gstripe) generally end up buying > >>>> pricey hardware raid cards for compatibility reasons. There seem to > >>>> be no decent add-on SATA cards that play nice with FreeBSD other > >>>> than that weird supermicro card that has to be physically hacked > >>>> about to fit. > >> > >> Mostly only because certain cards have issues w/shoddy JBOD > >> implementation. Some cards (most notably ones like Adaptec 2610A which > >> was rebranded by Dell as the "CERC SATA 1.5/6ch" back in the day) > >> won't let you run the drives in passthrough mode and seem to all want > >> to stick their grubby little RAID paws into your JBOD setup (i.e. the > >> only way to have minimal > >> participation from the "hardware" RAID is to set each disk as its own > >> RAID-0/volume in the controller BIOS) which then cascades into issues > >> with SMART, AHCI, "triple caching"/write reordering, etc on the > >> FreeBSD side (the controller's own craptastic cache, ZFS vdev cache, > >> vmm/app cache, oh my!). So *some* people go with something > >> tried-and-true (basically bordering on server-level cards that let you > >> ditch any BIOS type of RAID config and present the raw disk devices to > >> the kernel) > > > > As someone else has mentioned, recent SiL stuff works well. I have > > multiple http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=3DN82E16816132= 008 > > cards servicing RAID-Z2 and GEOM_RAID3 arrays on 8.0-RELEASE and > > 8.0-STABLE machines using both the old ata(4) driver and ATA_CAM. Don't > > let the RAID label scare you--that stuff is off by default and the > > controller just presents the disks to the operating system. Hot swap > > works. I haven't had the time to try the siis(4) driver for them, which > > would result in better performance. >=20 > That's a really good price. :) >=20 > If needed, I could host all eight SATA drives for $160, much cheaper > than any of the other RAID cards I've seen. >=20 > The issue then is finding a motherboard which has 4x PCI Express slots. = ;) You should be able to put PCIe 4x card in a PCIe 16x or 8x slot.=20 =46or an explanation allow me to quote wikipedia: "A PCIe card will fit into a slot of its physical size or bigger, but may n= ot=20 fit into a smaller PCIe slot. Some slots use open-ended sockets to permit=20 physically longer cards and will negotiate the best available electrical=20 connection. The number of lanes actually connected to a slot may also be le= ss=20 than the number supported by the physical slot size. An example is a x8 slo= t=20 that actually only runs at =C3=971; these slots will allow any =C3=971, =C3= =972, =C3=974 or =C3=978=20 card to be used, though only running at the =C3=971 speed. This type of soc= ket is=20 described as a =C3=978 (=C3=971 mode) slot, meaning it physically accepts u= p to =C3=978 cards=20 but only runs at =C3=971 speed. The advantage gained is that a larger range= of PCIe=20 cards can still be used without requiring the motherboard hardware to suppo= rt=20 the full transfer rate=E2=80=94in so doing keeping design and implementatio= n costs=20 down." =2D- Pieter