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Date:      Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:27:53 +0100
From:      Pieter de Goeje <pieter@service2media.com>
To:        freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Cc:        "Peter C. Lai" <peter@simons-rock.edu>, Charles Sprickman <spork@bway.net>, Boris Kochergin <spawk@acm.poly.edu>, Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
Subject:   Re: hardware for home use large storage
Message-ID:  <201002101127.53444.pieter@service2media.com>
In-Reply-To: <4B723609.8010802@langille.org>
References:  <4B6F9A8D.4050907@langille.org> <4B718EBB.6080709@acm.poly.edu> <4B723609.8010802@langille.org>

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On Wednesday 10 February 2010 05:28:57 Dan Langille wrote:
> Boris Kochergin wrote:
> > Peter C. Lai wrote:
> >> On 2010-02-09 06:37:47AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote:
> >>> Charles Sprickman wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010, Dan Langille wrote:
> >>>> Also, it seems like
> >>>> people who use zfs (or gmirror + gstripe) generally end up buying
> >>>> pricey hardware raid cards for compatibility reasons.  There seem to
> >>>> be no decent add-on SATA cards that play nice with FreeBSD other
> >>>> than that weird supermicro card that has to be physically hacked
> >>>> about to fit.
> >>
> >> Mostly only because certain cards have issues w/shoddy JBOD
> >> implementation. Some cards (most notably ones like Adaptec 2610A which
> >> was rebranded by Dell as the "CERC SATA 1.5/6ch" back in the day)
> >> won't let you run the drives in passthrough mode and seem to all want
> >> to stick their grubby little RAID paws into your JBOD setup (i.e. the
> >> only way to have minimal
> >> participation from the "hardware" RAID is to set each disk as its own
> >> RAID-0/volume in the controller BIOS) which then cascades into issues
> >> with SMART, AHCI, "triple caching"/write reordering, etc on the
> >> FreeBSD side (the controller's own craptastic cache, ZFS vdev cache,
> >> vmm/app cache, oh my!). So *some* people go with something
> >> tried-and-true (basically bordering on server-level cards that let you
> >> ditch any BIOS type of RAID config and present the raw disk devices to
> >> the kernel)
> >
> > As someone else has mentioned, recent SiL stuff works well. I have
> > multiple http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=3DN82E16816132=
008
> > cards servicing RAID-Z2 and GEOM_RAID3 arrays on 8.0-RELEASE and
> > 8.0-STABLE machines using both the old ata(4) driver and ATA_CAM. Don't
> > let the RAID label scare you--that stuff is off by default and the
> > controller just presents the disks to the operating system. Hot swap
> > works. I haven't had the time to try the siis(4) driver for them, which
> > would result in better performance.
>=20
> That's a really good price. :)
>=20
> If needed, I could host all eight SATA drives for $160, much cheaper
> than any of the other RAID cards I've seen.
>=20
> The issue then is finding a motherboard which has 4x PCI Express slots.  =
;)

You should be able to put PCIe 4x card in a PCIe 16x or 8x slot.=20
=46or an explanation allow me to quote wikipedia:

"A PCIe card will fit into a slot of its physical size or bigger, but may n=
ot=20
fit into a smaller PCIe slot. Some slots use open-ended sockets to permit=20
physically longer cards and will negotiate the best available electrical=20
connection. The number of lanes actually connected to a slot may also be le=
ss=20
than the number supported by the physical slot size. An example is a x8 slo=
t=20
that actually only runs at =C3=971; these slots will allow any =C3=971, =C3=
=972, =C3=974 or =C3=978=20
card to be used, though only running at the =C3=971 speed. This type of soc=
ket is=20
described as a =C3=978 (=C3=971 mode) slot, meaning it physically accepts u=
p to =C3=978 cards=20
but only runs at =C3=971 speed. The advantage gained is that a larger range=
 of PCIe=20
cards can still be used without requiring the motherboard hardware to suppo=
rt=20
the full transfer rate=E2=80=94in so doing keeping design and implementatio=
n costs=20
down."

=2D- Pieter



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