From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Feb 20 22:48:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022EC2494D7 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from mail.antonovs.family (mail.antonovs.family [100.25.240.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48NqWR38HMz4N80 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F05138B96 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ojTv_FX5J-GL for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB59138B97 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.antonovs.family 4DB59138B97 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=antonovs.family; s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77; t=1582238909; bh=TyVSXv+digBrXadt0NNyFQrqtVyXf21JjWEqP2Vqqjc=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=IV7G0TUPRMNPMQAV9XutbK4M6oObB38zai4bjrglUlbnemT8fSPVeVlHAmgUVsB4B 8Lis4uEm6yjNDNUmCL67wJ16U7iQsJzdj0BI18GPUy11C+BfJBFBHDBO8kUByH8Aej M5gVRLhi2QiXF3VMdgj/z7xGGfQmJ83cGroxxVa0DaSWrmpchA5gQYBBlMPXYQeggd KeQgESEB2VYZeEa85L9SfeD+eezYLLuWgLIjdwVs6OQm77d3QoxhAYJFt06R8ORxDm GCIq3Cxn3ivNb+LKYjk2S0AO2+JgwV7GM6IuqprmCK1CQYRFAnHmPeTEJOWY10ZQ4Q 7gvHHZrN6nlEg== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antonovs.family Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id R-9il42bXVOf for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (c-73-83-210-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.83.210.79]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5E35138B96 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:28 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 14:48:21 -0800 From: Ihor Antonov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-ID: <20200220224821.hi7n3n7wdd6d4ali@sea-ll-10936> References: <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> <20200218183010.5a52441f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200218205940.04917783.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200219052643.7bd90d3c@scorpio> <20200219130628.457f8953@scorpio> <20200219134740.0df09817@scorpio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200219134740.0df09817@scorpio> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48NqWR38HMz4N80 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=antonovs.family header.s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77 header.b=IV7G0TUP; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=antonovs.family; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ihor@antonovs.family designates 100.25.240.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ihor@antonovs.family X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.81 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[antonovs.family:s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.31)[ip: (-9.12), ipnet: 100.24.0.0/13(-4.36), asn: 14618(-3.00), country: US(-0.05)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[antonovs.family:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[antonovs.family,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:100.24.0.0/13, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.210.83.73.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:48:37 -0000 > On 2020-02-19 13:47, Jerry wrote: > It worked before; they broke it when updating. > If it had never worked, I might have considered donating a piece of > equipment to assist them, but this is obviously not that sort of > problem. Do you assume that developers have access to all possible hardware? Is it possible that it worked on your hardware before accidentally, wihout ever being tested explicitly? Secondly, do you assume that developers have time/possibility to test all possible configurations? (Not even talking about "Works on my machine" scenarios") > Obviously, the product was not properly beta tested. I have beta tested > things for several companies, including Microsoft. If something goes > really wrong, I have a phone number to call for assistance. That > doesn't exist with FBSD, which is why I NRVER user version X.0 of any > of their releases. I did feel that by the tine they got to X.1 they > would have ironed out the major bugs. Obviously, not true in this case. Do you think that someone else has to beta-test the release for you? > So, to answer your question, what I suggest is to wait until 13.1 is > released. If that doesn't work, I will just wait until 11.x is put out > to pasture and then move onto a new OS. I am sorry, I might be misreading this, and correct me if I am wrong, but all this screams entiteled attitude to me and is deeply wrong. If nobody tries X.0 release X.1 will never get stable. Your hardware does not work? Fix it or help someone fix it. You want a stable OS release? Use CURRENT, then STABLE, then X.0 release and fix/report bugs, only then you will get a good X.1 release. Or pay someone to do it for you. In community project the least everybody can do is be a tester. Waiting for someone to do all the hard work and then just hop on X.1 release and then complain that your hardware does not work is simply selfish. And in that context calling "absurd" the idea to let a developer have access to hardware that you need to work is... ugh.. I have no words for it... Ihor Antonov ------------- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"