From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 9 15:07:21 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FBC1065686 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:07:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glen.j.barber@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f224.google.com (mail-fx0-f224.google.com [209.85.220.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB518FC1D for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:07:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glen.j.barber@gmail.com) Received: by fxm24 with SMTP id 24so198752fxm.43 for ; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:07:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=iau0qMOLWuk9d17Id694qj7HZ6OKCeAeCqJV2HZZsNA=; b=L78gR7GKgDkGs+PHbIe2q7XCLhiMrpHZIigQnxv4C1uH6oizBI3XlKvWdtdCIW8x/I toQaXK5kEGdlBsptom9LukMTRd6e1Ub8Z3vtvR2z7hO2b7OTl0PS9+BBove3c6dshkUU J6TJltXiZoG6WyEECgHyLJWpOM7kwl9ey0eUo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=eCqZEG/ZVXblyJ4sVxL7+mdog3Tm/x6TALASFat++54QoMA28148IkfrpWlAnQGd4b ssDkm5/dEkWm7fALEw6wuU50AWgdmwPF3PM+IFunnfH5Nol7PGzAdRxxs6dLjuFavV1c n0PR2uXYaBrONeTqKnxWhmQDbFBU8Z0LX+dHE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.65.18 with SMTP id g18mr842244bki.5.1247152039805; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:07:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <368E57AC-8366-46EA-BE1A-5EBB07B64EDC@hughes.net> References: <368E57AC-8366-46EA-BE1A-5EBB07B64EDC@hughes.net> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:07:19 -0400 Message-ID: <4ad871310907090807h4603a165n263637770114e9a5@mail.gmail.com> From: Glen Barber To: Chris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD-Questions Questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD for a high school class? (long) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:07:21 -0000 Hi, Chris On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Chris wrote: > Sorry for the OT-ness of this. I only work with FreeBSD for servers. > Have used it as the sole systems for a business since the late 1900s. > Twice I've put up X-Windows machines but we never bothered to > use them for one reason or another. Now my son's school is short > computers for a High School HTML class I'm going to help teach > this fall. The official teacher is excited about FreeBSD since we can > use old equipment that is donated. > > There are two issues. We will not get enough FreeBSD systems up > to cover all kids in the class. Some will have to use the 10.4/3 OS-X > G3s we already have. For the remainder of systems, I've told them > I need a minimum 256GB Ram, 500+Mhz, ~10GB hard drive. I will > put Apache on both types of boxes so they have a testing platform, > hope to put firefox on each so they have a consistent browser. The > confusing thing will be Finder and Textedit, versus whatever I use for > a window manager on the FreeBSD systems. > > The two questions are: > > 1. Taking the specs into account, what is the window manager that > will provide the closest match to the Apple desktop for mouse ops, > browsing files/directories, and editing text files. I suppose I should > add running Firefox (or a reasonable similar browser that will > render HTML and execute Javascript identically). > Although I will probably be lit on fire for this, I'd have to say KDE3 would probably be the closest. There even is the baghira theme, which mimics the OSX interface. I haven't used either in over a year or so, however. > I don't mean cosmetically, just enough that there isn't too much > needing to teach a window manager. Finder is relatively invisible > from a teaching standpoint as is Textedit, Firefox is going to be > reasonably standard (this is going to teach HTML standards, not > how to use windowed drag and drop page generation products, > they will be using a text editor and working with raw HTML, CSS > and JavaScript). But what I don't want to be doing is having some > learning vi (even though if this were an advanced class, that is > precisely what I'd expect ;-)), while others are using textedit. > The course is HTML. Mouse button operations should be close, > a window that gives a simple file directory and a text editor that > doesn't require learning a character command set would be the > target. > You should begin teaching them Vi now. :) > 2. Am I too lean on the specs for the free AMD/Intel boxes we > are requesting parents cough up? > Are you going to be building apache / xorg / ${YOUR_BROWSER} from ports or installing packages? If from ports, this may be a bit painful as it will take (seemingly) forever to build xorg, etc. > The district sadly is being forced to go to windows by the > state, and now only has these old antique Macs Monopoly, anyone? > free and has no Intel/AMD boxes. These will all come from > parents of the program and leverage the fact that people > like to replace perfectly good boxes because of spyware on > windows. I personally still have boxes with less than 100GB > RAM and sub-500 mhz processors running 6.x (and I think 7.0) > but I use those as firewalls, I've never used a window manager > so perhaps my view of FreeBSDs efficiency is optimistic. Are > the specs too low for *some* X environment? > > Constraint: I already broached the subject of putting FreeBSD > on the G3s using the PowerPC version. Unfortunately, the 6 > Apples are used by another class on OS-X. HTH -- Glen Barber