Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:12:53 -0600 From: "Josh Paetzel" <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net> To: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <akm@mail.theinternet.com.au> Cc: "Seth" <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>, "Kent Stewart" <kstewart@urx.com>, <mij@osdn.com>, <freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: Web page suggestion Message-ID: <011901c09634$19144b00$6100000a@vladsempire.net> References: <20010213104922.A70178@psychotic.aberrant.org> <20010213125007.B375@guinness.osdn.com> <3A898E22.39A43C02@urx.com> <20010213145515.B1203@guinness.osdn.com> <3A89AB42.B5F0E207@urx.com> <20010213171035.B70575@psychotic.aberrant.org> <00a201c09628$74fd7600$6100000a@vladsempire.net> <20010214123040.O39738@zeus.theinternet.com.au>
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <akm@mail.theinternet.com.au> To: "Josh Paetzel" <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net> Cc: "Seth" <seth@psychotic.aberrant.org>; "Kent Stewart" <kstewart@urx.com>; <mij@osdn.com>; <freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Web page suggestion > +-------[ Josh Paetzel ]---------------------- > | > | <rant> > | > | I don't think that we need to encourage users that don't want to > | "wade" through the three links on the website to get to the > | installation instructions. > > I think you severely underestimate the level of the people trying to do this. > Generally they're looking for alternatives, they have scratch box or partition > and they're trying out 3 or 4 flavours of Linux, and they want to throw > FreeBSD into the mix. Or they're trying out something other than Linux because > they're starting to hear more and more press about FreeBSD. > > They don't want to wade through hundreds of pages of doco to find where > the software is. They want to download, and have a go themselves first > before reading the doco. At this point, some will give up if it doesn't > go to plan, some will RTFH, some will ask for help on the mailling > lists or on the various irc channels that are around. > I don't think that I am underestimating people. I've helped 15 people install FreeBSD via irc this year so far. Most of them linux users that wanted to give FBSD a go, but a few of them had no *nix experience at all. > | I think someone who is going to have a > | good experience with FBSD is someone who will read the entire handbook > | a couple of times before trying an install. Someone who wants to be > | able to figure things out for themselves. FreeBSD has a steep > | learning curve, and we might as well let people know that right away. > > It doesn't have a steep learning curve for those who are already familiar > with UNIX type systems. Complete novices should still be able to install > the system (or find it to download it and install it), even if they > don't know what to do with it once they've done so. > Of course it doesn't have a steep learning curve for someone who already knows unix. What does that have to do with anything? Complete novices can install the system if they read the handbook installation section. I did it, and I was as novice as they come. > | I installed FreeBSD in 1996, and I didn't have a clue about unix. I > | didn't know anything. It took me almost a year to be able to do > | anything with it at all. I don't think that it is fair to people to > | give them the impression that FreeBSD is super user friendly. > > But we want it to be right? I mean we're not a group of elitists who think > UNIX shouldn't be available to everyone are we? Are we? > Unix is available to anyone, but I don't know if we want to get into spoon feeding people. That can get to be Extremely time consuming. I don't know about you, but I spend anywhere from an hour to three hours a night going through mail from the FreeBSD mailing lists. Sad to say, but most of that time is spent on -questions. Are we elitists? I don't know. If you look at the long-time unix gurus, you will find that a lot of them learned unix when there really wasn't good documentation or help available, and they figured this stuff out. Now we have tons of docs and manuals and howto's and websites and on and on. I can see how someone like that would look elitist to some. I don't blame em, either. How do you learn better? I don't know about you, but I tend to learn more when I fight through stuff then when someone just blurts out the answer. > If people want to install something to have a play, or to see what they > can do, we shouldn't be discouraging curiosity, or creativity. > >From a sheer advocacy point of view, I would think having direct > links on the front page to download the CD and floppy images can only > be a good thing. In fact I would put a Getting FreeBSD section on the > main page, not just in the sidebar (between Easy to Install and FreeBSD > is free, is where I'd put it d8). > > Like it or not the customer base is growing into a new arena, and we > (as a community), should be taking steps to embrace the new populous, > even if they have goofy requests, or don't always RTF[HM]. They have > been cultured very hard by big marketing companies that computers > aren't scary things, and that computers don't have to be hard to use > or operate. > Personally, I think that FreeBSD should stick to its strengths. Stability and performance in server applications. Yes sound support and X windows eye candy and so on and so forth is nice. I don't think that we are doing ourselves any good to try and compete as a desktop OS, though. Can you use FreeBSD as your primary platform for desktop applications? Yes. Does that mean that it's a good idea? I don't know. Personally, I wouldn't mind if we kept our primary focus for support on our primary users, namely, server type stuff. Leave the newbies who want to be l33t and run unix on their desktop to the linux crowd. When they are ready to run with the big dogs, then they can move up to FreeBSD. Anyways, just my opinion. Not at all neccesarily supported by anyone that matters. Josh > -- > Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew Milton > The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | > ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon > PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au| > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message
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