Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 12:14:33 +0200 From: Panagiotis Astithas <past@ebs.gr> To: Maksim Yevmenkin <maksim.yevmenkin@savvis.net> Cc: freebsd-bluetooth@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Automatic bluetooth device initialization Message-ID: <43941309.4090202@ebs.gr> In-Reply-To: <43936F6B.1090003@savvis.net> References: <9307f5f20512030807x6eadc73cq9d9acc9dd5503a5b@mail.gmail.com> <4391E320.2090006@savvis.net> <9307f5f20512031333x61e9d141u85ea578711740712@mail.gmail.com> <43936F6B.1090003@savvis.net>
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Maksim Yevmenkin wrote: > Paul, > >>> fine. if you could please tell us a little bit more and explain >>> what is wrong with the current way of doing things in linux and/or >>> freebsd. >> >> >> don't get me wrong, there isn't anything wrong with the current state >> of bluetooth configuration utilities. If you've spent some time >> reading the freebsd handbook or some unofficial bluez tutorials and >> you're accustomed to the command line (like most of the people on >> this list, I assume) then you're just set.. ..but if you take into >> account the regular desktop user (like how linux and freebsd are >> trying to do right now) you see the need for something more intuitive >> and immediate than the 'current way of doing things', this basically >> involves some sort of user interface, at the very least. Even on this > > > i though we are talking about bluetooth device _initialization_. right > now, in freebsd, user does not have to do anything except loading the > drivers and plugging the device. all configuration parameters are in one > file and documented. adjusting configuration for bluetooth devices in > freebsd is not that much different from putting stuff into /etc/rc.conf > etc. > > i agree with you, there is no gnome/kde/whatever gui applet that knows > about bluetooth in freebsd. i also admit that there are no gui based > bluetooth tools in freebsd. however, this, in my opinion, has nothing to > do with bluetooth devices initialization. > >> mailing list, little time ago, there was a request about porting the >> excellent kde bluetooth framework to freebsd, but, as you noted, in >> it's current form kdebluetooth has very deep roots in bluez, and it >> also has deep roots in KDE, so even adapting to another desktop >> manager would be difficult. To solve such (not uncommon) problems, >> the dbus system[¹] is being developed, dbus is getting very popular >> (maybe too much) and it provides a simple and secure messaging system >> to let different programs talk to one another, in our example, let >> one program be the bluetooth daemon, it provides a well-known >> interface and hides platform-specific implementation details, on the >> other side we have the other programs, which are just frontends (with >> a Qt/Gtk/textual interface, it doesn't matter) and can run on every >> operating system where the aforementioned interface is available, I >> think something like this wouldn't hurt to any "desktop-unix" >> operating system. > > > while i appreciate your effort in this area, i'm skeptical that d-bus > and/or whatever api will solve this problem. i think, instead of > introducing yet another compatibility layer that sits on top of native > api, everyone would be much better off if native api was the same. what > would solve this problem, imo, is the standard (something like posix) > that would define api etc. > > in the very beginning, i asked linux bluez folks if they are willing to > release their user space code under dual (gpl/bsd) license. someone > immediately shoot me down with the statement that bluez code is gpl and > it will remain so forever. i admit, it was a very weak attempt and i did > not push it any further. instead, i choose to write my own code under > bsd license so it can be included into freebsd. > > i took a very quick look at kde-bluetooth sources and i could not find > anything that would suggest that kde-bluetooth is trying to work on non > linux-bluez systems. it seems like all that needs to be done is to teach > libkbluetooth about other non linux-bluez systems. The same holds for libbtctl of gnome-bluetooth. I wouldn't dismiss an effort to standardize on a dbus API, though. I can see quite a few advantages in such an approach: - dbus is already ported to FreeBSD and many other systems - porting kde-bluetooth or gnome-bluetooth would essentially require a new (albeit slim) portability layer in order to minimize synchronization effort with the upstream sources - the bluetooh subsystem speed requirements are not very high, as to prohibit a (hopefully efficient) portability layer - it seems much more feasible to target the compatibility on a dbus API than to reach consensus on a posix-like API Nevertheless, if you are confident that we can achieve standardization in a lower level, I'm definitely all for it. Regards, Panagiotis
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