From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Oct 14 09:36:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E914336BD for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 09:36:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CB6kR509Xz3V4Y for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 09:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.19.154]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N0X4e-1kE8fI0kPE-00wSsT; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:36:36 +0200 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:36:35 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Andrea Venturoli Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A couple of questions about SSDs Message-Id: <20201014113635.ce39d02e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:9az4S/tS5968YMc9OWqhj5632+kURjptElaXHCq4kiOVGAZaT3S PkSWffhdXSJbcCP0Xs2etijDkSsbNZZGW/00Un8CHuF8RwScpn0ko3eJT/r/DtfLY18TBqG ahWP56rLavB8QFfBH8bzdhppR5eTK3ArWx5cgSObJq5ZoTsu5F16mBs2ATo55kAVQWe6i4T 3ka+mpYghVi1/LRC7NQpw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VmCpucmdu60=:4eKoevtHyg74OlWgpXAUfW poMj5CVTlbXOxXkEqjtrCZ1xcIS7RYkcw6Z4s7dMK+anlSmNwua2l+3UgPbHR1YM7sNXFcCrd epnuj1bFUPutjhUT+/lZFEHE+0BKJpJV/57NDzkJXK2N1lk83byHirbnnaGWpLGqDYLCU8mNz HH2c4VXAAJjY6TTUMvOmMH6LA9AycYFr9DUbG9X+w3Wc8KzCPhug4kcy9/UljUlQ13mCRGShW QWzEyqfZi525DReHKMPiCbjiuSSBYe+qezvegguYXFuB7Zc9b8fEJRwBvV6/anJmkTMzxCH7N HamG4W46gTUVkkqe3zObn9VAri2g6vB/BBhdaUMC71zzMqlyz84g6qGY8R1QpHa/Ycqynib16 CvD9TtVfUNunscHOf0ujwBvsqYSY49EPRFgaou+K/PlFpETh4W/QM2SSoGpRaMc0TpT8CR1os H8++8gFCsRUhq0vw1+dEoLbAGTEAR5+M3t0mJLbGgTUk89EDDgf/opMoIhUiY7vIm36uZ6CoP PL69ZMP1s/SqB5UkxqRiataC/N5J5rUe68ctsyE2EfpdyrvAVbmQIDGRv2MjPxJ6AJHZ1rstn oe25BVXA2MRWwvBpFqEnqAXRJQePHNbwQNwaLFK66Ic6oPkzIUnLaLR0mgm+ZgptRIbWrC8h9 glDFmjFhCrXaqkyPEF2i4aNR1wDo3J3EsRvQ21KbmmWoUWvlVnsPXlQkiMBDl6nv40FPvfyOl nuf4bZdqTWnFLwaEJywQUkOk9j8P0FZC+hY3LCKVrD0nJcEWiFGaBfwkB0Tf8r1AUfzUj/vdS XjOlo0qGlwg3Fy0bHLpGoAM4LvIixcyVj81G/yjjXPGVDZi8aR1bIoAuh/k1HmCSN4Ix1pr5d +Gr8wXF3pg/nGBKOAqRQqs5PxWe0+Uuup9R5oLKCc= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CB6kR509Xz3V4Y X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.133) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.09 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.19.154:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.49)[-0.489]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.019]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.84)[-0.839]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.133:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.133:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 09:36:48 -0000 On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:03:57 +0200, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > I've heard people say that Windows will soon wear an SSD out unless you > turn swap off. > While I don't believe that 100%, is there any reccomendation wrt to > FreeBSD swap in an SSD only install? It's not about swap, it's about write access in general. That write access depends on what programs you run on your machine, or specific to "Windows", what programs MICROS~1 intends to download, install, and run on "your" PC. :-) Regarding swap, using a regular swap partition is not a problem: If nothing writes to it, it won't affect wear. My first experience with a SSD-only install in a laptop was to use a file-backed swap space, again with the advantage that space wasn't allocated and written to until needed. In /etc/rc.local: SWAP="/ssdswap" /bin/rm -f $SWAP /bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=$SWAP bs=16m seek=500 count=0 /sbin/mdconfig -a -t vnode -u 0 -f $SWAP || /bin/sh /bin/chflags nodump $SWAP /bin/rm $SWAP /sbin/swapctl -a /dev/md0 echo -n " swap" And in /etc/rc.shutdown.local: /sbin/swapctl -d /dev/md0 > /dev/null 2>&1 /sbin/mdconfig -d -u 0 echo -n " swap" As this was an older laptop with only 4 GB (or 2 GB?) of RAM, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to have swap available if urgently needed. So far occassional monitoring in htop didn't show any excessive swap usage. Today I'd probably go with a regular swap partition, as SSDs become bigger and cheaper. > Is anyone using Poudriere on SSDs? Are there any measures of the impact > on wear? No, I'm still using rotating rust for that. ;-) But you're absolutely thinking into the right direction: Running poudriere causes a lot of writes, it's not just limited to swap (which gets activated only if RAM is full). During ports building, lots of files are being written, and _that_ probably is the significant question here. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...