From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 5 22:46:07 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: current@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5810216A400 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:46:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from thin.berklix.org (thin.berklix.org [194.246.123.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EE813C447 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A4CCA.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.76.202]) (authenticated bits=128) by thin.berklix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l65Mjx5t028569; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:46:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l65MjpXk033781; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:45:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l65MjpmR055403; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:45:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200707052245.l65MjpmR055403@fire.js.berklix.net> To: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <200707051428.22766.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <200707051428.22766.jhb@freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to John Baldwin message dated "Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:28:22 -0400." Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:45:51 +0200 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Subject: Code removal - Was Re: Future of the ie(4) driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:46:07 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > The ie(4) driver in 7.x has several issues. First of all, it has several > compiler warnings that haven't been successfully fixed in several years and > are currently just ignored. More importantly, it hasn't been updated to use > more modern FreeBSD APIs like bus_space (still uses inb/outb) and SMPng > locking. If someone is using this driver and is willing to test fixes for > it, then it can be updated. If there isn't anyone who is using this driver > and willing to test fixes, then it will be removed from the tree at some > point in the future (say a month or two). I reduced "cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org" to current@ & changed "Subject:" so as not to cross post this tangential reply. ( BTW I checked, I don't have any hardware that uses "ie" ) What's concerned me increasingly for some time, (& nothing personal to any individual, (the above just a useful illustration ) is a tendency in FreeBSD for developers to say: ~Unless anyone speaks in [time] I will discard [whatever]~ Then months later a new release is rolled, & months later users upgrade, &: "Oh my god! they removed the XYZ I use ! ... Aargh!~ So when discarding, it seems best to adopt a policy to warn as wide a user base as possible, not just developers. Not just current@ or stable@ but at least all of hackers@. Even then we risk hurting happy users of FreeBSD, eg ISPs etc who just don't have time to read hackers@ every day. Maybe FreeBSD should have a low bandwidth mail list, that managers & busy admins could safely subscribe, so they get long warning of functional removal ? Such things as eg 16 bit PCMCIA removal (after 4.11 before 6.*) would have gone to such a list, etc. Good PR to keep wider user base informed of planned removals, & some otherwise unknowing users might then reply "OK, I'll install current/ stable on a spare box, & give developer(s) access, as I can't afford to lose functionality~ PS Analogy: Opening programme in the "Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy": The plan to demolish Arthur's house. on display in locked basement, The plan to demolish Earth, only filed on Alpha Centauri :-) -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com HTML mail unseen. Ihr Rauch=mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff.