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Date:      Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:27:19 -0600
From:      jacks@sage-american.com
To:        "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>, <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   RE: Smashing Bill Gates necessary?
Message-ID:  <3.0.5.32.20011030082719.00fa6e38@mail.sage-american.com>
In-Reply-To: <000a01c1610f$ffab3aa0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
References:  <3.0.5.32.20011029092440.00fa6e38@mail.sage-american.com>

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"...Whoah there! Your way, way out of line...."

Ted: While I have a lot of respect for your expertise in BSD, I was unaware
you also practiced law... or do you have a law degree specializing in
anti-trust? There are a number of attorneys in my family including 3 judges
residing on the bench and I hear enough opinions on this issue from them
and even they (about 2 dozen) have strong opposite opinions. Some differ
strongly with the opinions out there.... and that's okay too.

Now, let's talk freedom of speech on this issue. That's all I expressed was
an opinion which I qualified right up front that was akin to arguing P&R.
And opinions are like A-holes.... everyone has one (although I haven't
personally checked into that... just another opinion!)...

You are entitled to an opinion... doesn't mean you are right (except for
the record and even that gets flawed at times). I have my own feelings (not
strong ones) about the issue and have expressed them... Bill got spanked
and I don't feel sorry for him nor do I own any M$ stock. I have used their
products since 1988 and have enjoyed the ride. He found a void and REALLY
filled it.... maybe it got out of hand but I'm not going to lose any sleep
over it. I did cringe at the idea of busting it up... but, that's my
opinion and I'm sticking to it.


At 10:56 PM 10.29.2001 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
>>[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of
>>jacks@sage-american.com
>>Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 7:25 AM
>>To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
>>Subject: Re: Smashing Bill Gates necessary?
>>
>>
>>This thread is very much like arguing religion and politics... there is
>>never and end to such debates, and I ignored it until now...
>>
>>"...I wouldn't want to harm the guy, but I'd sure like to have seen MS
>>broken up.  You think it would hurt him?  I sincerely doubt it...."
>>
>>I doubt if Bill ever dreamed he would become as big as he did, but only in
>>America... But, just to bust him up without any real good reason
>
>Whoah there!
>
>Your way, way out of line.  The court system in this country has passed
>judgement on Microsoft and they are an illegal monopoly.  You can disagree
>with the judgement all you want but we are a country of laws, and when
>a court passes judgement you damn well better follow it.  If you think
>that a law is bad then your free to civil disobey all you want and
>attempt to change it but don't interfere with those who choose to follow=
 the
>law, and don't bitch when the rest of us get together and toss you into
>prison.
>
>Microsoft has been permitted to appeal and their appeal was reviewed and
>in fact some of what they wanted was granted to them.  They have had
>numerous chances to present their case, and been allowed to delay and delay
>for years and years.  This is nowhere a case of them being a victim and
>your statement that there's no good reason is tremendously insulting to
>those true victims of the justice system, like OJ Simpson's deceased=
 x-wife.
>
>> is akin to
>>the phrase.." I am warmed by the fires that burn others..." When a company
>>becomes too big is in the eyes of the beholder
>
>All civilized countries have laws that govern how
>much market share a company is permitted to have.  You can quibble about
>how a market is measured but in Microsoft's case, Microsoft didn't argue=
 that
>they were not the monopoly, as a matter of fact.  Instead they tried a host
>of other arguments that the court recognized as the baloney that they were.
>
>>and unlike other monopolies
>>that force you to use them without other alternative, the software=
 business
>>is very fast-moving...
>
>The anti-trust laws don't account for this.  Now, perhaps that's a failing=
 of
>them but Microsoft is free to line the pockets of the congress like all the
>rest of them do and get their vews represented there, and the law changed.
>
>>things can be changed by that other fellow out there
>>working on something really big in his garage... and ole Bill could become
>>little again before he can dream of that too....
>
>In which case he would no longer be a monopoly and the anti-trust laws
>wouldn't
>apply to him.
>
>>leave the market alone as
>>long as you have a choice!
>
>The anti-trust laws define whether the consumer has a choice or not.  In
>Microsoft's case the law says the consumer doesen't.  If you don't believe
>that then work to change the law.
>
>>We shouldn't just complain because some one
>>became hugely successful...
>>
>
>But, we don't.  We complain when someone breaks the law and right now=
 that's
>what Microsoft is doing.  Would you rather we all ignored the laws?  Sept
11th
>showed what happens when we do.
>
>Ted Mittelstaedt                                      =
 tedm@toybox.placo.com
>Author of:                           The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's=
 Guide
>Book website:                         =
 http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com
>
>
>
>>Okay... I'm bracing for the next shot...!! (I knew I shouldn't have said
>>anything!)
>>
>>At 09:39 AM 10.29.2001 -0500, Louis LeBlanc wrote:
>>>Ok, yes it is kinda mean.  Bill has been thoroughly vilified in the
>>>open/free software communities.  But not entirely without reason, and
>>>not entirely undeserved.
>>>
>>>Sure he has given more money to help educate kids in technology than
>>>many of us will have made through our whole lives, but he's
>>>essentially fighting an undeclared war on freedom of computing choice.
>>>
>>>Sure I admire his educational charity work.  But I like to see a
>>>little resistance to the 'you must do it my way' mentality.  XBill is
>>>satire, so it must be looked upon as such.  No one meant that they
>>>wanted Bill harmed, just to fan the flames of resistance a little.
>>>Ok, a lot.
>>>
>>>So, like a couple other replies in this thread suggest, just rm it and
>>>put it in your refuse file so you never have to see it again.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't want to harm the guy, but I'd sure like to have seen MS
>>>broken up.  You think it would hurt him?  I sincerely doubt it.
>>>
>>>I started to run into a rant about opening MS code to the public as
>>>open or free software, as rumors suggested when the initial court case
>>>went against them, but realized this would be too far OT, and probably
>>>start some kind of holy war on the list, so I decided to leave it at
>>>that.
>>>
>>>XBill isn't the only bit of anti MS satire or propaganda in the Open
>>>and Free SW communities, but I doubt that Gates needs to fear for his
>>>well being.
>>>
>>>$0.02.
>>>
>>>L
>>>On 10/29/01 04:40 AM, P. U. (Uli) Kruppa sat at the `puter and typed:
>>>> Hi everybody!
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps I am becoming a little bit moralistic these days?
>>>> In the gnome-fifth-toe collection I found a little game
>>>> called XBill. Its sense is to smash tiny pictures of Bill
>>>> Gates and some blood will be splattered when you hit him.
>>>>
>>>> Of course Bill Gates can pay enough lawyers to take care of
>>>> this himself, of course I do not have to play this game, of
>>>> course I do not like Microsofts monopolistic business
>>>> strategies and of course smashing icons, burning
>>>> straw-puppets, crosses or flags is not as bad as killing
>>>> real persons, but still I do not really like the idea.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would not be a great loss to take this game out
>>>> of gnome-fifth-toe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uli.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************************************
>>>> *    P. U. Kruppa  -  Wuppertal    *
>>>> *               Germany            *
>>>> *  www.pukruppa.de   www.2000d.de  *
>>>> ************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>>>> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Louis LeBlanc               leblanc@keyslapper.org
>>>Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
>>>http://www.keyslapper.org                     =D4=BF=D4=AC
>>>
>>>Fishbowl, n.:
>>>  A glass-enclosed isolation cell where newly promoted managers are
>>>  kept for observation.
>>>
>>>
>>>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>>>with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Jack L. Stone,
>>Server Admin
>>
>>Sage-American
>>http://www.sage-american.com
>>jacks@sage-american.com
>>
>>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>>with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
>>
>
>
>

Best regards,
Jack L. Stone,
Server Admin

Sage-American
http://www.sage-american.com
jacks@sage-american.com

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