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Date:      Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:41:29 -0700
From:      Ian Lepore <ian@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Mark R V Murray <mark@grondar.org>
Cc:        arch@freebsd.org, John-Mark Gurney <jmg@funkthat.com>, Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r274739 - head/sys/mips/conf
Message-ID:  <1416598889.1147.297.camel@revolution.hippie.lan>
In-Reply-To: <F017033A-B761-4435-A7F8-264D2F4662A0@grondar.org>
References:  <201411200552.sAK5qnXP063073@svn.freebsd.org> <20141120084832.GE24601@funkthat.com> <AE8F2D30-7F91-4C90-B79A-D99857D8AED8@grondar.org> <20141121092245.GI99957@funkthat.com> <1416582989.1147.250.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <026FEB8A-CA8C-472F-A8E4-DA3D0AC44B34@grondar.org> <1416596266.1147.290.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <F017033A-B761-4435-A7F8-264D2F4662A0@grondar.org>

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On Fri, 2014-11-21 at 19:37 +0000, Mark R V Murray wrote:
> > On 21 Nov 2014, at 18:57, Ian Lepore <ian@FreeBSD.org> wrote:
> >=20
> > All I've ever asked for, since day one of discussing this topic, is a
> > knob to prevent /dev/random from blocking, ever.  A way in which an
> > administrativive policy decision can be made about what consitutes "g=
ood
> > enough" entropy (and by extension, security).  The knob could be of t=
he
> > nature that it's hard to turn on accidentally -- it's a dangerous thi=
ng
> > and like an industrial stamping press maybe you have to hold down two
> > buttons far apart from each other to make it go.
>=20
> I=FFm suspicious of motive here. You are planning on ignoring lousy
> entropy coming out of /dev/random; you seem to need a way of breaking
> to do so. (I can=FFt think of a better word than =B4ignoring=A1; what I=
 mean
> is that you don=FFt seem to care how bad the output is.)
>=20
> If you don=FFt care about the contents of /dev/random, why not simply
> ignore it? Choosing to use tools that require good-quality /dev/random
> output means you should choose other tools, not break /dev/random!
>=20
> > As far as I know we have that now, but it sounds like not forever.  I=
'm
> > just arguing in favor of providing the tools, making it reasonably ha=
rd
> > to accidentally cut yourself on them, but ultimately leaving the poli=
cy
> > decisions of how to use them to the people who own and run the system=
s.
> > I kind of thought that was the unix way.
>=20
> The Snowden revelations have made folks considerably more paranoid.
>=20
> Providing tools that bad guys could potentially use where the good guys
> have alternatives is not a way that security-minded folks are keen to
> go.
>=20
> You have the right to ignore /dev/random. Asking for a back door to
> break it is a bigger deal. Bad guys like these back doors.
>=20
> M

The arrogance in the way you talk down to me about my right and ability
to decide these things is mind-boggling.  It's clear you're going to do
whatever you want, so I guess I'll just shut up.

-- Ian





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