Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:41:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft brainrot (was: r-cmds and DNS and /etc/host.conf) Message-ID: <199709282241.PAA17788@usr07.primenet.com> In-Reply-To: <19970928101941.03210@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Sep 28, 97 10:19:41 am
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> >> Writing a Motif-based program would take a tremenduous amount of time. > > > > If you make it grammar-based, you write it once, and it works for a > > crudload of command line configurators that know how to be run over > > pipes. Like disk partition tools, install tools, etc.. > > Correct. But why? Two words: "code reuse". So I can have one grammar-using tool written in Motif, another written in ncurses, and another in JAVA that can all operate against the same command line tools. If someone wants perl-based and tcl-based tools as well, then *they* can write them. 8-). > >> Why do it if the basic nameserver setup takes about 10 minutes? (No, > >> not the caching-only server, this one only takes a couple of minutes.) > > > > Each. Time. > > How do you find out your configuration with this horrible, > complicated, you-only-see-as-much-at-a-time-as-I-want-to-show- > you-and-make-sure-you-keep-alternating-from-keyboard-to-mouse Motif > application once you have entered your initial configuration? 1) Use one of the other UI front ends (the one you prefer of Motif). 2) Use the command line tool directly. It's capable of running interactively (like VMS command line tools), as a "one event" command line (like UNIX command line tools), as a grammar engine on the end of a pipe (for the UI's), etc.. So you can even batch 10,000 user adds still. 3) Edit the files on which the command line tool operates, like you do today. Get erroneous data because you weren't limited to only valid values by a command line tool or UI obeying the grammar dictated by the command line tool. Your choice, really. Use the scope and the laser sight, or turn off the laser sight and trust the scope to refuse to image your foot as a target, or turn off both, close your eyes, and plug away at your foot. 8-). > > Speak for yourself. 99.99% of the computer users in the world prefer > > that type of interface -- which is why they are MS users instead of UNIX > > users. > > Wrong on both counts. 99.99% of the computer users in the world don't > understand the question -- which is why they are MS users instead of > UNIX. In fact, I'm very surprised to find you defending this > position. The only position I'm defending is "make something people would want to buy" instead of "make something people would want to buy, if only they knew better". > > > UNIX users are, as a class, intellectual elitists who don't > > undertand that the average I.Q. is 100 because that is how a 100 I.Q. > > is defined. And as a class, they are unprepared to make the necessary > > allowances. There's a good reason a moron can run Microsoft OS's: so > > that that morons won't be too intimidated to buy them. > > Well, again I'd say wrong on both counts. Morons can't run > Microsoft's OSs. Even people of normal intelligence (whom I think I > can understand quite well) feel intimidated by them. That's not to > say, of course, that they don't feel intimidated by UNIX as well. Well, welcome to the future, then, because you're labelling 75% of people as uneployable at McDonald's when they move to touch-screen based Windows CE cash registers (just like the touchscreen based Windows CE stations that an AirBus A320 uses for non-flight-critical systems). > > Normal mortals don't like TCP/IP because it bears no resemblance to > > reality. I don't have to name my car to remember where I parked it. > > What's your license plate, Terry? Custom plates attract cops. Just like bumper stickers, red paint, and to a lesser degree, white paint. Sort of like TCP/IP attracts configuration errors. Given a choice between something that I have to plug it in and then pound on it to make it work vs. something I just have to lug it in to make it work, guess which one I'd choose. I suppose you could argue that my plate's a tiny bit custom, in that it's an environmental plate. I pay an extra $25/year for it, which I can then deduct off my state income taxes. I do it not because I'm particularly supportive of environmental causes, but because it allows me to exercise $25 more explicit control over where my tax money goes. I exercise that control to avoid losing it. > > This may be intentional laxity. In their opinion, you are supposed > > to buy an NT server and configure WINS naming instead of DNS. > > Make up your mind what you're arguing. It's a perfect logical opinion for them to hold. Regardless, it's easier to configure DNS on NT than it is on FreeBSD. I can give you complete instructions in a page and a half for it. Or you can hit 'F1' any time uring the DNS setup. Can you do the same for FreeBSD? > Then why don't you do it and import the configuration to your UNIX > box? I'd like to see it, if only to pick holes in it. How do you set > up a HINFO RR? Under "Advanced..." > An ISDN RR? A variant reverse record? I assume your cache timeout everywhere is now one second, right? > To be fair, I think that O'Reilly's DNS book is too confusing. TCP/IP > Network administration will give you more info that any Microsoft toy > config tool can. Yes. But if people wanted "the real thing" instead of "toys", cars with automatic transmissions wouldn't sell (before the inevitable question, yes, my car has a standard transmission). > > For something designed by a bunch of bonifide computer scientists, > > you'd think they would be able to grasp the concept of putting > > configuration databases in third normal form. 8-|. > > Who are you talking about here? A bunch of bonifide computer scientists. ;-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
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