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Date:      Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:25:33 +1100
From:      jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au>
To:        freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD - A User's Point of View
Message-ID:  <19990124212533.B17658@caamora.com.au>
In-Reply-To: <199901240949.BAA17434@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 01:49:14AM -0800
References:  <19990124201556.E36690@freebie.lemis.com> <199901240949.BAA17434@implode.root.com>

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On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 01:49:14AM -0800, David Greenman wrote:
> >>> I'd be a whole lot happier if people wouldn't make statements like
> >>> this.  If it's evil, explain.  If you don't know any good reasons,
> >>> don't spread misinformation.
> >>
> >> The Linux filesystem, or ext2fs, if I'm not mistaken by default caches
> >> writes to the disk.  If the machine should suddenly go down, power
> >> failure, unexpected crash, etc..., this information doesn't make it back
> >> to the disk.  I've known many a Linux user who has lost _entire_ file
> >> systems due to this.
> >
> >UFS does this too.
> 
>    Uh, he's talking about metadata, and no FFS does not cache metadata
> writes by default.

we, those on comp..freebsd.misc have had this discussion before, please don;t 
tell terry were on again for 12 rounds. its not terry i an worried about its 
teh rest of the people who had such convincing opinion about why he was so 
wrong.

otherwise it was a very interesting discussion, i learnt a lot, just to keep 
up.

> >> It surprises me that the Linux vendors don't turn this 'feature' off by
> >> default.  They could include in the doc's an explanation of why it's
> >> turned off and give the users instructions on how to turn it back on, if
> >> they like.
> >
> >I don't know if it's possible to turn it off in Linux.  You can't turn
> >it off in UFS either.  In fact, the manner in which disk writes are
> >cached is pretty central to FreeBSD's performance.
> 
>    Actually, prior to softupdates, FreeBSD's filesystem performance wasn't
> very good compared to ext2fs for the very reason that ext2fs is "fast and
> loose" by defering metadata writes. This has the downside of making ext2fs
> filesystem integrity unreliable in the face of a system crash or power
> failure. FFS does not have this problem, but is much slower as a result.

ok to laod gun, just please don't shoot just yet.

is this softupdates teh same as a journaling filesystem, if not is freebsd 
going to evolve such a creature ?

what would teh arguments be one way ot the other, please.

regards

jonathan

-- 
===============================================================================
Jonathan Michaels
PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia
===========================================================<jon@caamora.com.au>


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