Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 05:06:41 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner <nbm@mithrandr.moria.org> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Jordan Hubbard on Darwin Message-ID: <20001119050641.A4791@mithrandr.moria.org> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001118142924.00cb6850@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 02:36:09PM -0700 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001118142924.00cb6850@localhost>
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On Sat 2000-11-18 (14:36), Brett Glass wrote: > >Of course, the proof that I was working with a real operating system would > >be to compile something -- to get some of my favorite Unix-ish software > >running on this system. So I promptly fetched the source code to the GNU > >Project's bash 2.04, my favorite shell and one that didn't happen to be > >included with OS X. I unpacked it without any trouble. (Let's hear it for > >GNU tar, gzip, cpio and pax being standard components!) > > If Jordan is to be a cheerleader -- which he does well when he deigns to do > it -- it would be nice if he at least cheered for the right team. The FSF > would love to wipe BSD off the face of the planet, since it inconveniently > interferes with Richard Stallman's anti-business, anti-programmer agenda. > The last thing it needs is encouragement or PR from the one camp that > actually delivers truly free software. Ok Brett, we'll just force Jordan to lie next time. Thanks for the advice. Here we were innocently thinking that it was good to tell the truth, and evil to lie and obscure the truth, but luckily you're here to set us right. While I dislike bash, many others don't, and GNU tar is pretty much standard for a Unix system. If they weren't there, I'm sure most would complain, and if they are there, that's good for OS X. In this case, one isn't there, being complained about, and one is, being complimented on. I'd much rather see Jordan appearing in these articles with on-topic beliefs about his favourite shell and how useful tar is for unpacking tarballs than you espousing a "The FSF is evil and we should put them down where we can". While I don't agree with Eric Raymond on all things, he makes one good argument. People don't really respond to good/evil. They respond to things that make a difference in their role and life. Talking about good, evil, and the moral implications of supporting the GNU project by just using a product of theirs just isn't something that matters in the lives of most of those readers. If you hit a BSD developer, you might get a few points, but if you hit your average user (Linux, bash, emacs, whatever) you're just losing major cred for us or having no effect. My thanks, as ever, to Jordan for a well-controlled and interesting interview that has probably already got FreeBSD more positive attention than your rants on licensing. Your (Brett's) articles in boardwatch and other places, that don't refer to the evil of the FSF, easily have won FreeBSD more friends than your moral licensing dilemna posts. Your posts about the evils of the FSF, GPL, and GNU products have lost FreeBSD more users and credibility than your articles, though. (jkh runs bash? As if emacs and tcl weren't bad enough... Did the OS X CD come with tcl?) Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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