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Date:      Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:47:04 +0100
From:      Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in>
To:        Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc:        Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, "G. Adam Stanislav" <adam@whizkidtech.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Gender in Indo-European languages (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008])
Message-ID:  <20010209114704.A62359@lpt.ens.fr>
In-Reply-To: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:58:38AM %2B1030
References:  <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <xzpzofxffa2.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com>

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Greg Lehey said on Feb  9, 2001 at 09:58:38:
> On Thursday,  8 February 2001 at 14:57:57 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
> > Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in> writes:
> >> The idea is that if "his" is supposed to be gender-neutral in
> >> generic situations, "her" should also be regarded as
> >> gender-neutral.
> 
> In a newly-designed language, this would be reasonable.  In existing
> languages there are syntactical conventions.  In English and most
> other languages I can think of, a group of people of mixed gender is
> masculine.

I read an excellent argument against this claim, in an article by Douglas
Hofstadter.  Or rather, against the claim that "man" means both man
and women.

You often see sentences like "Man is the only animal who hunts for
pleasure."

You *never* see sentences like "Man is a species which gives live
birth to its young."  It will always be "Man is a species where the
females give live birth to their young."

One comes across such examples every day.  In a place I was in
formerly, a male head of the department (the usual situation) was 
a "chairman", but a female head was a "chairperson".  Which is
ridiculous.

Sorry, I think the conventions are not only biased, they aren't
even consistent.  I'm not in favour of continuing with them.

An author of another TeX book (The joy of TeX, I think) used another
convention which I liked: use E for both he and she.  (Analogous
to I for first person.)  I forget what he did for his/him/her.

Hofstadter has another article (printed in "Metamagical Themas")
where he exchanges the usual sexist usages of "man" and "woman",
for "black" and "white", with utterly horrifying results.  I think
that was the article which first made me think deeply about this
issue.

R


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