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Date:      Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:28:15 -0700
From:      "Kevin Oberman" <oberman@es.net>
To:        Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Nenhum_de_Nos <matheus@eternamente.info>
Subject:   Re: portmaster not ask for port deletion 
Message-ID:  <20090826222815.7DA1F1CC09@ptavv.es.net>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:59:19 PDT." <4A959417.9000208@FreeBSD.org> 

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> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:59:19 -0700
> From: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org>
> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
> 
> Skip Ford wrote:
> > Doug Barton wrote:
> >> Yes, unfortunately it's not omniscient. :)
> > 
> > Well, to be honest, it wouldn't need to be.  It would just need a flag
> > to know when nobody is present from whom to request input, and then take
> > the default action. 
> 
> That's never going to happen. The default choice is not going to be
> the right one for some percentage of users.
> 
> > But, if all input is requested during config, then
> > that's pointless.
> 
> Yes, that's the goal.
> 
> >> Second, without knowing what command line you used I couldn't tell you
> >> for sure what happened of course, but assuming you used some
> >> combination of '-af' what you saw was expected behavior. There is a
> >> conflict (I think a fairly obvious one) between the -f option and
> >> +IGNOREME. Since different users would have different ideas of how to
> >> resolve that conflict, portmaster takes the safe path and asks you.
> > 
> > Well, it wasn't immediately obvious to me that someone would ever want to
> > mark a port ignore and then want to upgrade it.  So, it just seemed like a
> > silly question to me (and still does to be honest, unless that's the
> > behavior of portupgrade you're trying to match.)
> 
> I honestly don't know what portupgrade does in that situation. There
> are at least 2 classes of users that I am trying to "protect" in this
> case:
> 1. Users who believe that -f should override +IGNOREME
> 2. Users who create an +IGNOREME file for some reason, then forget
> it's there.

portupgrade does the same thing except that you "hold" them instead of
ignoring them. I believe that this is the correct way. I have ports
(e.g. openoffice.org) that take a VERY long time to build or that are
run in production out of a crontab (rancid). I don't want to
inadvertently update these with the '-a' option. (Especially th latter
case.) When I really, really want to do them, I use '-f'.

I think of '-f' as "YES, I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to update this
port now and I expect you to believe me".

> One of the problems with writing a tool like portmaster is that a lot
> of users have very strong ideas about how it should work, and very
> clear reasons for why they think that their way of looking at it is
> the right way. :)  Unfortunately, there is usually an equal number of
> users on the other side who feel just as strongly.

Yep, You can never design a tool more complex than a rock that will
please everyone. Wait, that rock is too (soft | small | large | rounded
| sharp | etc) for me.
-- 
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4  EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751



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