Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:02:34 -0800 From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> To: <racerx@makeworld.com>, <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Anthony's drive issues.Re: ssh password delay Message-ID: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNEEPAFAAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <42480F8B.1060405@makeworld.com>
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owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org wrote: >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" systems, but clearly there is >> something about this system that FreeBSD is not written to handle. >> > > Yay! *claps* > > Isn't that what Ted has been telling you to an extent - that it's the > HP/Compaq microcode in the drivers? > I think it's a glass-half-full glass-half-empty argument. The main point I've been trying to make is that just because FreeBSD's drivers don't support whatever modification has been made in the Adaptec code on the Vectra, does not mean that the FreeBSD driver is "broken" or "has a bug" in it. > Anthony - have you ever setup a new HP/Compaq server? Ever use the > SmartStart CD's? > > In contrast, you CAN'T (hear me again) CAN'T install Windows (shrink > wrap) on the above without them. It's becasue HP/C has propriatarty > drivers. > Actually, if you don't have the SmartStart CD you can download the individual drivers and at the critical moments during the install, you can load them from floppies. But you are correct in that these are trapdoor systems - if you do not install the Compaq/HP-written drivers at the right times during the install, then Windows loads it's default drivers which may or may not (usually not) work. And once loaded you cannot unload them and replace them with the manufacturer-supplied ones because the operating system won't let you do things like unloading the device driver that runs the controller that the system disk is on, things like that. You have to nuke and repave. I think Dell is the same way, though. I suspect all the name brand systems are - that is why people buy name-brand server systems, to get the extra little features like the preemptive disk failure monitoring, the case-open/case-closed, temperature, fanspeed, power supply voltage monitoring, and all the other proprietary little features. It's very much like buying the Lexus that comes with the key chip - you get the extra feature of not being able to start the car without a key with a chip in it, with the downside that only Lexus supplies the chipped keys (and charges you up the ass for them of course) > And why is that? I think Ted covered that well. :-) Actualy I didn't cover that. Manufacturers put these proprietary things in their server products because they are features that are very useful to organizations that run hundreds if not thousands of servers all over the country or the world - with the caveat of course that every server has to be the same model and come from that same manufacturer to get the full benefit of the little fancy features. But to most of us who don't run these large networks, these features do nothing at best, and are an annoyance at worst. The HP disk sector atomicity thing was a great feature if you had disks on an external cabinet that didn't have a UPS on it. Sure, laugh, but when you have a large HP minicomputer with a disk pack the size of a refrigerator that has 50 scsi disks in it, that consumes 15Kw, you don't just go down and grab a UPS from Office Depot. But naturally for small PC's it was a completely stupid and useless feature which is why no other disk manufacturer bothered to license HP's patent on it. While I can't of course say that the Adaptec microcode in Anthony's server was modified to support this particular feature, clearly HP had some fancy feature support in mind which is why they tampered with the microcode to begin with. And the sector atomicity thing was not the only fancy feature that HP put in it's disks back when they were manufacturing them. Ted
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