From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 24 02:00:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA17150 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 02:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (dial37.phoenix.net [199.3.234.72]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17030 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 01:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA09023 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 03:59:02 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199512240959.DAA09023@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Help!! DNS server needed To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 03:59:00 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, I've lost my domain name service for my domain!! I need a primary and a secondary DNS. It is a very small record (MX record only). Can anyone provide this? Gary P.S. Then I can start to kill this reply to header...:) Gary Clark II gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 24 15:52:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05909 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05893 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA00569 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:52:38 -0800 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 15:52:38 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199512242352.PAA00569@time.cdrom.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk http://www.acme.com/jef/netgems/clueless_users.html From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 24 23:23:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06756 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 23:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06750 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 23:22:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA10614; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:22:43 +0200 (SAT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10355; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:22:41 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199512250722.JAA10355@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:22:40 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > http://www.acme.com/jef/netgems/clueless_users.html Thanks! Happy Christmas! -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 25 00:54:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA09298 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09293 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA27550 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:54:10 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA15653 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:54:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA05325 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:53:14 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199512250853.JAA05325@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 09:53:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199512250722.JAA10355@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Dec 25, 95 09:22:40 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Murray wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > http://www.acme.com/jef/netgems/clueless_users.html > > Thanks! Unfortunately: j@uriah 150% telnet mailhost.mantis.co.uk smtp Trying 193.129.10.1... Connected to mailhost.mantis.co.uk. Escape character is '^]'. 220 sunforest.mantis.co.uk Smail3.1.28.1 #5 ready at Mon, 25 Dec 95 08:50 GMT expn 550 ... not matched -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Dec 25 04:15:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA14880 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 04:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA14871 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 04:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA10850; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 14:15:10 +0200 (SAT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA11517; Mon, 25 Dec 1995 14:15:10 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199512251215.OAA11517@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 14:15:09 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > As Mark Murray wrote: > > > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > http://www.acme.com/jef/netgems/clueless_users.html > > > > Thanks! > > Unfortunately: > > j@uriah 150% telnet mailhost.mantis.co.uk smtp > Trying 193.129.10.1... > Connected to mailhost.mantis.co.uk. > Escape character is '^]'. > 220 sunforest.mantis.co.uk Smail3.1.28.1 #5 ready at Mon, 25 Dec 95 08:50 GMT > expn > 550 ... not matched Damn. I suppose we can recreate this ]:->. Any volunteers? (I would do it, but my connectivity is bad/slow :-( :-( :-( M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 26 11:52:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13952 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 11:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tachyon.mono.org (mono.city.ac.uk [138.40.11.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13927 for ; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 11:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from david@localhost) by tachyon.mono.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA21117; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:52:10 GMT Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:52:07 +0000 (GMT) From: David Brownlee To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: David Mazieres , akt@doc.ic.ac.uk, port-i386@NetBSD.ORG, misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DMA beyond end of isa In-Reply-To: <2692.819993338@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk << My comments here are very i386 & sparc centric >> << apologies but I can only speak for what I use >> Having a FreeBSD, NetBSD, & OpenBSD is unneccessary duplication of effort. But for various reasons thats where we find ourselves. That doesn't mean we should stay there. In the short term we could get some people looking at getting simpler things such as /usr/src/usr.bin in sync, and parts of the kernel tree, with each OS pulling in anything it may lack from the others. Ok, we're going to have some points where groups will each insist that their version is right, but if we get to the point where as a matter of course changes put in one tree will get added to the others we have helped a lot at reducing duplication of effort. Longer term.. who knows - but we should try. David On Tue, 26 Dec 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > No insult to the OpenBSD folks intended, but my impression of that > project is that it's supposed to be some sort of "reference library" > of code for general use, not a place to send "end users." In point of > fact, I'm not even sure how useful as a "reference library" it's going > to be, given that none of us seem to have much interest in looking at > it.. :-) > All together ``NMH'' :) OpenBSD was started for various political reasons, and is there for developers & users alike. With anoncvs it seems like a _better_ place for developers than anything. A version of *BSD thats pulling in all the fixes from NetBSD, plus some from FreeBSD, plus some of its own... hmm, doesnt sound like a bad place to be sent myself... > My advice would be to stick with NetBSD until they get the > bounce-buffering problem worked out or go to FreeBSD. Both systems > have the *infrastructure* required for answering user questions, > responsing to features and bug reports, several books on the way that > will be hitting the bookstores this spring, etc and so forth. > OpenBSD has an infrastucture consumate with its age. As far as I know all three systems have developers & users answering questions. OpenBSD has fewer people answering questions... it also has fewer people asking them! Check again in a while... As to differences for users, apart from the name change & some extra facilities it feels like NetBSD to me :) > > All of those things aren't particularly important to software > historians and archivists, I'll agree, but of major importance to > anyone actually trying to run a system for day-to-day tasks. I think > the end-user base is bewildered enough already and needs another "user > oriented BSD" like Linux needs another 12 distributions. > > In short, if OpenBSD would like to continue pitching themselves as a > programmer's resources, then I think they're making the best of an > unfortunate NetBSD scism and I'm inclined to say "pax - let's make the > best of it." If they're trying to fragment the end-user base of BSD > even further then we're all being done a major disservice given that > resources are already stretched wafer thin as it is. We're supposed > to be "competing" with the 900 pound gorilla that Linux has become, > not one another! > You want OpenBSD to pitch itself as a resource you dont think anyone will use? scratch that - I'm not trying to start a flame war here. OpenBSD is a freely available BSD which aims make its own changes in addition to pulling in the best from outside sources - NetBSD & FreeBSD included. Can we try building bridges not walls? > The users can help too, of course, given that they always get the > final "vote" in such things anyway. Don't bail out on the two OSes > who have done so much good BSD work over the last 2 1/2 years and are > now starting to get really good - help us make them better! There has > already been a rather tragic replication of effort, and I see no need > to make it worse! > The users will pick what serves them best. If I want to run the same BSD on my sparcs & i386 boxes, and I need bounce buffer support I go with OpenBSD. The fact I lose nothing from NetBSD, gain some features & better developers access, and feel happier there makes me stay. That feels like me knocking NetBSD, but its not. OpenBSD is 90+% NetBSD plus some stuff. So when I say OpenBSD is cool I mean ``all the work & effort that NetBSD people have put in is cool, as is the extra that OpenBSD people have done''. > NetBSD resources: > http://www.netbsd.org > > FreeBSD resources: > http://www.freebsd.org > OpenBSD resources: http://www.openbsd.org > > P.S. Yes, I have talked about merging the two groups again to even > better serve the "BSD cause" but I guess that too much water has now > passed under the bridge for that to be practical, given the > exceedingly luke-warm response I've received. Ah well! > Maybe a OpenBSD -> FreeBSD merger is more likely? Anyone have any old grudges there they want to wave around, or is OpenBSD too recent? :) David From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 26 18:05:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26785 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 18:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM ([198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26780 for ; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 18:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA02563; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 21:04:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 21:04:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Mark Murray cc: Joerg Wunsch , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. In-Reply-To: <199512251215.OAA11517@grumble.grondar.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Mark Murray wrote: > Damn. I suppose we can recreate this ]:->. Any volunteers? (I would do it, > but my connectivity is bad/slow :-( :-( :-( dont need connectivity just an MX'er, tie in to the net once a week for the un/sub mail that anyone sends. act on it. then send out the weekly reminder ;) Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Dec 26 22:29:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA06644 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 1995 22:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06637 Tue, 26 Dec 1995 22:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA13165; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:29:25 +0200 (SAT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA03089; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:29:24 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199512270629.IAA03089@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Mark Murray , Joerg Wunsch , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remember us talking about the `clueless' list? Here it is.. Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:29:23 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Mark Murray wrote: > > > Damn. I suppose we can recreate this ]:->. Any volunteers? (I would do it, > > but my connectivity is bad/slow :-( :-( :-( > > dont need connectivity just an MX'er, tie in to the net once a > week for the un/sub mail that anyone sends. act on it. then send out > the weekly reminder ;) I thought of that, but I reckon the list holder would still some reserve bandwidth to handle the occaisional aggro fellow who trys swamping the list in an attempt to get thrown off. With the extra bandwidth, he just get it aaalll back! ;-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 11:22:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10121 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncc-1701-d.starfleet.gov (root@ix-sb1-17.ix.netcom.com [204.32.201.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10116 Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from d_burr@localhost) by ncc-1701-d.starfleet.gov (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00232; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:25:52 -0800 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:25:50 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Burr X-Sender: d_burr@ncc-1701-d To: FreeBSD Questions cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Will an additional 4 MB help? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, looks like I got some Xmas money this year... not a lot, but still some. And so I decided to apply it toward my lifelong quest: to make my computer the mightiest it can be. My computer, FYI, is an 486DX2/66 with 8 MB of RAM... 1.0 GB FAST SCSI-2 disk, plus a 150 MB IDE that I use as auxiliary filesystem space. I've narrowed down my choices to one of two (I can only afford one): 2 backup cartridges, or an additional 4 MB of memory. I've been doing a lot more stuff in X lately, and find that it's quite slow, especially when I'm trying to do a lot of stuff. I guess, then, what my question would be is: would an additional 4 MB of memory help? Can anyone give me any sort of figures (I don't care if it's "real" benchmarks, etc. or "gut feeling") on whether 12 MB would run significantly faster vs. 8 MB. I don't do a LOT with my machine -- it's only a single-user machine, although I let friends log in over the modem every now and then. I do Web stuff, though, both browsing and Web publishing (I have a CERN Httpd running on my FreeBSD box, which I use to assemble and preview my pages in "real life" scenarios). OF course, I use Netscape (the BSDI version). As an aside, how "much" would a 12 MB configuration help out in Windows 95, vs. an 8 MB configuration? My system has 4 72-pin SIMM slots, which right now contain 2 4MB SIMMs, for a total of 8 MB. So if I continue adding 4 MB SIMMs, I can have a max. of 16 MB of memory. If I want to go any higher, I'd have to sell all my SIMMs and get bigger individual modules -- like getting 8 MB modules instead of 4 MB's, or 16 MB modules (do they even have those yet?). If I were able to afford this, then I might as well break down and upgrade everything, including the CPU (see below). So this probably won't happen. 16 is probably the max. memory for me with this system. I don't have a lot of cash, nor do I make a lot of cash -- so I can't just run out and get a new Pentium or whatnot. Although that's eventually what I want to do, in which case I'd have to upgrade just about everything else in my system, INCLUDING memory (I'd need 60ns or faster memory?, and probably this newfangled EDO memory or whatnot that I've been hearing about). Obviously, I'm not expecting to do this for a LONG, LONG time. So, I should probably get a 4 MB SIMM stick now, it'll probably help some (maybe even dramatically). Then I can always add another 4 MB later, and when the big jackpot hits, go for the Pentium. Right? Please help a confused soul out... and apologies if this is somewhat off-topic. Donald Burr [d_burr@ix.netcom.com], PO Box 91212, Santa Barbara CA 93190-1212 TEL (805)564-1871 / FAX 564-2315 / WWW http://www.geopages.com/WallStreet/2072 PGP Public Key available by request (send e-mail) or on Public Key Servers. ** Uphold your right to privacy - Use PGP. ** From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 11:42:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11675 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11668 Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA06709; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:42:32 -0800 To: Donald Burr cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Will an additional 4 MB help? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:25:50 PST." Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:42:32 -0800 Message-ID: <6707.820093352@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The memory will give you the best bang-for-buck. 8MB vs 12MB is definitely noticable! Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 11:44:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11778 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11744 Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA09964; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:43:53 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00127; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:43:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199512271943.LAA00127@corbin.Root.COM> To: Donald Burr cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Will an additional 4 MB help? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Dec 95 11:25:50 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:43:53 -0800 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I've been doing a lot more stuff in X lately, and find that it's quite >slow, especially when I'm trying to do a lot of stuff. I guess, then, >what my question would be is: would an additional 4 MB of memory help? > >Can anyone give me any sort of figures (I don't care if it's "real" >benchmarks, etc. or "gut feeling") on whether 12 MB would run >significantly faster vs. 8 MB. I don't do a LOT with my machine -- it's It'll make many things about 50-100% faster. >all my SIMMs and get bigger individual modules -- like getting 8 MB >modules instead of 4 MB's, or 16 MB modules (do they even have those >yet?). If I were able to afford this, then I might as well break down They've been making 64MB modules for more than a year. I have 4 of those here (in the soon-to-be new wcarchive). >So, I should probably get a 4 MB SIMM stick now, it'll probably help some >(maybe even dramatically). Then I can always add another 4 MB later, and >when the big jackpot hits, go for the Pentium. Right? Right. :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 13:02:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16591 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from croute.com (ishm2.croute.com [199.97.106.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16586 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bldg1.croute.com by croute.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12572; Wed, 27 Dec 95 15:09:22 CST Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.13); Wed, 27 Dec 95 15:25:22 +600 Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.13); Wed, 27 Dec 95 15:24:58 +600 From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: Donald Burr Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 15:24:53 +600 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Will an additional 4 MB help? Cc: FreeBSD Chat Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll answer yours if you'll try to answer one of mine... | Well, looks like I got some Xmas money this year... not a lot, but still | some. And so I decided to apply it toward my lifelong quest: to make my | computer the mightiest it can be. | | My computer, FYI, is an 486DX2/66 with 8 MB of RAM... 1.0 GB FAST SCSI-2 | disk, plus a 150 MB IDE that I use as auxiliary filesystem space. Mine isn't much faster -- 486/80 PCI (Genoa allegedly). 8MB, NCR SCSI, Orchid 2MB SVGA, crud monitor. | | I've been doing a lot more stuff in X lately, and find that it's quite | slow, especially when I'm trying to do a lot of stuff. I guess, then, | what my question would be is: would an additional 4 MB of memory help? Any GUI will benefit from more real memory, but you probably know that already. As far as 12 v. 8: it won't be fantastic, but it should be noticeable. | My system has 4 72-pin SIMM slots, which right now contain 2 4MB SIMMs, | for a total of 8 MB. So if I continue adding 4 MB SIMMs, I can have a | max. of 16 MB of memory. If I want to go any higher, I'd have to sell | all my SIMMs and get bigger individual modules -- like getting 8 MB | modules instead of 4 MB's, or 16 MB modules (do they even have those | yet?). They have 32's, wholesale about $860 here in Dallas. Normally retail prices run around $125 for 4MB, $250 for 8, etc. Up and down, as you can expect. Mind you, these are non-parity... | If I were able to afford this, then I might as well break down | and upgrade everything, including the CPU (see below). So this probably | won't happen. 16 is probably the max. memory for me with this system. | | I don't have a lot of cash, nor do I make a lot of cash -- so I can't | just run out and get a new Pentium or whatnot. Well, if I was in that position, I'd want to be in Santa Barbara 8) No place better, and I was just there in October. | Although that's | eventually what I want to do, in which case I'd have to upgrade just | about everything else in my system, INCLUDING memory (I'd need 60ns or | faster memory?, and probably this newfangled EDO memory or whatnot that | I've been hearing about). Obviously, I'm not expecting to do this for a | LONG, LONG time. Based on ASUS motherboards: 70ns for 75, 90, and 120MHz (50 or 60Mhz external clock); 60ns for 100 and 133MHz (66MHz). EDO's damned expensive in my opinion. | | So, I should probably get a 4 MB SIMM stick now, it'll probably help some | (maybe even dramatically). Then I can always add another 4 MB later, and | when the big jackpot hits, go for the Pentium. Right? 8MB if you can swing it -- as far as I know 8MB (your current) is about minimum for any X implementation. | | Please help a confused soul out... and apologies if this is somewhat | off-topic. Don't know if that helped -- where did you come across "props" (I did get it out of incoming as you suggested), and do you know if any more of the OpenLook stuff (like filemgr and mailtool) is floating around, or is likely to be on a CD release like AccelX or Motif 2.0? best regards, larry From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 14:39:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23046 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23030 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA14293; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:39:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199512272239.QAA14293@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Larry Dolinar" , bugs@freebsd.netcom.com cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Dallas? Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:39:27 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Apparently, "Larry Dolinar" scribbled: > They have 32's, wholesale about $860 here in Dallas. And then: > Mark Hittinger > Netcom/Dallas Hey! That's two people who admit to being connected to lovely Dallas. That makes three of us, at least. Anyone else willing to admit it? I mean, we *almost* have enough to make an official FreeBSD Pub Crawl or FreeBSD Geek Dinner or something... Anyone? jdl From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 18:53:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06100 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06092 Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA00668; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:30:50 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199512280300.NAA00668@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Will an additional 4 MB help? To: d_burr@ix.netcom.com (Donald Burr) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:30:49 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Donald Burr" at Dec 27, 95 11:25:50 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Donald Burr stands accused of saying: > My computer, FYI, is an 486DX2/66 with 8 MB of RAM... 1.0 GB FAST SCSI-2 > disk, plus a 150 MB IDE that I use as auxiliary filesystem space. Spend on memory. You are seriously cramped here; 16M is really a workable minimum for this configuration. > I've narrowed down my choices to one of two (I can only afford one): 2 > backup cartridges, or an additional 4 MB of memory. Sheesh! What backup media are you using? 4M of memory is about $200 (australian dollars, retail), the most expensive backup tapes I can think of at the moment would be DC525's, and they only run to about $45 or so... > As an aside, how "much" would a 12 MB configuration help out in Windows > 95, vs. an 8 MB configuration? Likewise, lots. > My system has 4 72-pin SIMM slots, which right now contain 2 4MB SIMMs, > for a total of 8 MB. So if I continue adding 4 MB SIMMs, I can have a > max. of 16 MB of memory. If I want to go any higher, I'd have to sell > all my SIMMs and get bigger individual modules -- like getting 8 MB > modules instead of 4 MB's, or 16 MB modules (do they even have those > yet?). If I were able to afford this, then I might as well break down > and upgrade everything, including the CPU (see below). So this probably > won't happen. 16 is probably the max. memory for me with this system. I'd actually try trading in the 4M modules plus your cash for either a pair of 8's or a single 16. The pair would stand you in better stead if you were to go to a Pentium later, the 16 will be cheaper. > So, I should probably get a 4 MB SIMM stick now, it'll probably help some > (maybe even dramatically). Then I can always add another 4 MB later, and > when the big jackpot hits, go for the Pentium. Right? If all you can afford is another 4M stick, then _yes_, this will contribute more to your performance than anything else can. > Please help a confused soul out... and apologies if this is somewhat > off-topic. Not at all; possibly -hardware would have been a good cc:. > Donald Burr [d_burr@ix.netcom.com], PO Box 91212, Santa Barbara CA 93190-1212 -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "Who does BSD?" "We do Chucky, we do." [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 19:54:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10417 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10411 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA13943; Wed, 27 Dec 95 21:54:14 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA26989; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:54:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:54:12 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9512280354.AA26989@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jdl@jdl.com Cc: LARRYD@bldg1.croute.com, bugs@freebsd.netcom.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512272239.QAA14293@chrome.jdl.com> (message from Jon Loeliger on Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:39:27 -0600) Subject: Re: Dallas? Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jon" == Jon Loeliger writes: Jon> Apparently, "Larry Dolinar" scribbled: >> They have 32's, wholesale about $860 here in Dallas. Jon> And then: >> Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas Jon> Hey! That's two people who admit to being connected to Jon> lovely Dallas. That makes three of us, at least. Anyone Jon> else willing to admit it? I mean, we *almost* have enough to Jon> make an official FreeBSD Pub Crawl or FreeBSD Geek Dinner or Jon> something... Anyone? I'm nobody special, but I'll be in Dallas this weekend ... my wife's from there, but she's really quite nice and doesn't have that horrible accent ... :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA I bought a dog the other day... I named him Stay. It's fun to call him... "Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!" He went insane. Now he just ignores me and keeps typing. He's an East German Shepherd. -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 20:52:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA13221 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13216 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:52:53 -0800 (PST) From: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA26075 ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:51:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Murray cc: Ollivier Robert , nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:17:35 +0200." <199512210717.JAA28301@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 20:51:54 -0800 Message-ID: <26073.820126314@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Mark Murray wrote in message ID <199512210717.JAA28301@grumble.grondar.za>: > Ollivier Robert wrote: > Er, neither, but I would give my eye teeth to have a good look at either. I > have read a bit about the Bletchley Park (sp?) machine, and the mother of a > good friend of mine worked there during the war. Just FYI, Bletchley Park (sp again :-) ) is now open as a museum and I believe they are trying to restore the machine that they used to crack the ENIGMA code to working order! That would be interesting to see. Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Dec 27 23:08:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA18666 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA18661 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:08:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA14599; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:08:04 +0200 (SAT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA09424; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:07:52 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199512280707.JAA09424@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com cc: Mark Murray , Ollivier Robert , nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:07:52 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk wrote: > Mark Murray wrote in message ID > <199512210717.JAA28301@grumble.grondar.za>: > > Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Er, neither, but I would give my eye teeth to have a good look at either. I > > have read a bit about the Bletchley Park (sp?) machine, and the mother of a > > good friend of mine worked there during the war. > > Just FYI, Bletchley Park (sp again :-) ) is now open as a museum and I > believe they are trying to restore the machine that they used to crack > the ENIGMA code to working order! That would be interesting to see. WOW! I was in London in 1990, and had a looong look at the computer section in the Science Museum. I have a photo of a reconstruction of Babbage's Difference Engine, the first in my collection of bits of computer history. Its getting bigger, but not more prestigious - I need things like Grace Hopper's first Bug from the Smithsonian, and so on. In my museum of computer hardware, I have a Commodore PET, original model, still in working order. Chiclet keyboard, cassette tape and all! Heck, this computing giant has 3k of ram! I believe it was powerful enough to calculate the moonshots, but was a little slow after a while - hence the move to something about as fast as three Commodore 64's. (Anybody in ZA reading this who has bits of historical hardware they want to unload - please give me a shout - I am keen!) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 00:15:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA21236 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu [128.120.56.188]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA21224 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (4.1/UCD.CS.2.6) id AA00561; Thu, 28 Dec 95 00:15:17 PST From: obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu (David E. O'Brien) Message-Id: <9512280815.AA00561@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu> Subject: YOU GOTTA RUN WITH THE BEST (fwd) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:15:16 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP3ALPHA] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:17:29 -0800 (PST) > To: hackers@FreeBSD.org > From: SpUnK3y@LiNuX.3l33T.OrG > Subject: YOU GOTTA RUN WITH THE BEST > > It goes without saying that to be the BEST you have to run with the best. > And of course, the only way to do that is to run LINUX. > > And secondly, LINUX is the only OS that makes sense when im smoking crack. > It just goes to show how feature rich LINUX really is. Jeez, if he his going to spam us, least he could do is offer to share some of the crack with us. ;-) -- David (obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu) P.S. Or maybe we should offer to share a little Berkeley LSD with him. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 00:53:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA22377 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.138]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22367 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:53:38 -0800 (PST) From: gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA26668 ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:52:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Murray cc: Ollivier Robert , nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:07:52 +0200." <199512280707.JAA09424@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:52:58 -0800 Message-ID: <26666.820140778@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Mark Murray wrote in message ID <199512280707.JAA09424@grumble.grondar.za>: > > Mark Murray wrote in message ID > > <199512210717.JAA28301@grumble.grondar.za>: > > Just FYI, Bletchley Park (sp again :-) ) is now open as a museum and I > > believe they are trying to restore the machine that they used to crack > > the ENIGMA code to working order! That would be interesting to see. > WOW! :-) > I have a photo of a reconstruction of Babbage's Difference Engine, the > first in my collection of bits of computer history. I suppose you know that the Science Museum in London is trying to prove that Babbages designs would actually have worked? By manufucturing the bits to the tolerances available at the time the designs were built, they are slowly building up one of Babbages designs (the last one he did, forget the name). It was tested either this year or late last and what had been built so far worked perfectly. Just another FYI Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 04:09:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA01224 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 04:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA01219 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 04:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA14710; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:22:10 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199512281222.HAA14710@hda.com> Subject: Re: YOU GOTTA RUN WITH THE BEST (fwd) To: obrien@cs.ucdavis.edu (David E. O'Brien) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:22:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9512280815.AA00561@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu> from "David E. O'Brien" at Dec 28, 95 00:15:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > It goes without saying that to be the BEST you have to run with the best. > > And of course, the only way to do that is to run LINUX. > > > > And secondly, LINUX is the only OS that makes sense when im smoking crack. > > It just goes to show how feature rich LINUX really is. > > Jeez, if he his going to spam us, least he could do is offer to share > some of the crack with us. ;-) Kudos to david for following up to -chat! And a big raspberry to all of you over there spamming hackers... -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 06:45:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA06805 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from croute.com (ishm2.croute.com [199.97.106.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA06789 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from bldg1.croute.com by croute.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00850; Thu, 28 Dec 95 08:52:40 CST Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 28 Dec 95 9:08:16 +600 Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 28 Dec 95 9:07:51 +600 From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:07:47 +600 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Dallas? Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk | >>>>> "Jon" == Jon Loeliger writes: | | Jon> Apparently, "Larry Dolinar" scribbled: | >> They have 32's, wholesale about $860 here in Dallas. | | Jon> And then: | >> Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas | | Jon> Hey! That's two people who admit to being connected to | Jon> lovely Dallas. That makes three of us, at least. Anyone | Jon> else willing to admit it? I mean, we *almost* have enough to | Jon> make an official FreeBSD Pub Crawl or FreeBSD Geek Dinner or | Jon> something... Anyone? | | I'm nobody special, but I'll be in Dallas this weekend ... my wife's | from there, but she's really quite nice and doesn't have that horrible | accent ... :-) | Very amusing: we don't _all_ talk like J.R. Ewing or Jerry Jones (and I was born here). Oh well... 8) And bring some snow with you, dammit.... From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 06:54:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA07143 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncc-1701-d.starfleet.gov (root@ix-sb1-23.ix.netcom.com [204.32.201.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA07123 Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from d_burr@localhost) by ncc-1701-d.starfleet.gov (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA22914; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:57:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 06:57:40 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Burr X-Sender: d_burr@ncc-1701-d To: FreeBSD Questions cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Chat Subject: "To parity, or not to parity; that is the question..." Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk well, OK, I guess Shakespear was never really into computers. But, like Romeo, I too am facing a difficult dilemma when next I walk into a computer show or store. Because, I now have some Xmas cash burning a hole in my pocket, I want some memory, and I want it NOW. But I don't know what kind of memory I need to get. Unfortunately, since my computer is pretty much "home brew", I can't exactly call up tech support and say "hey! Do I need parity chips for a 486 computer?" People have said "check your BIOS setup program, if it has any settings that mention anything parity-related, then you probably need it." I did this, but alas, none of the configurable stuff had anythig even remotely to do with parity. Nor did any of the jumper settings on the motherboard do with this either. Nor did the manual mention anything about parity. When mentioning how to add memory, it basically said "Buy them SIMM things and stick'um in them thar little slots." What I CAN tell you is that my motherboard uses AMI WinBIOS, circa 1993. WinBIOS is the one with the cutesy BIOS setup program that has a GUI that looks like Windows. The motherboard is ISA+VLB, and supports 486 and 486-Overdrive chips (i.e. it has a socket with more pins on it than a normal 486 chip). The chipset on the motherboard is OPTi (OPTi895? can't be sure until next I reboot). I have 2 4MB SIMM sticks in there now, for a total of 8 MB. I remember when I bought them that they EACH ran slightly less than $200 (around $198 or something) including CA sales tax (7.75%). (this was last year) Neither the receipt nor the memory chips themselves say whether they're parity or not, and the store doesn't have any idea either. My guess is that my system can take either parity or non-parity, since most of the "clones" are pretty non-partial about it, and some don't even check for parity errors. I apologize for asking this here, I quite simply had nowhere else to turn. If you take offense, feel free to flame me in private. Thanks for your help, and sorry I can't be a little more specific. Donald Burr [d_burr@ix.netcom.com], PO Box 91212, Santa Barbara CA 93190-1212 TEL (805)564-1871 / FAX 564-2315 / WWW http://www.geopages.com/WallStreet/2072 PGP Public Key available by request (send e-mail) or on Public Key Servers. ** Uphold your right to privacy - Use PGP. ** From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 08:57:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17011 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from croute.com (ishm2.croute.com [199.97.106.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17000 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from bldg1.croute.com by croute.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01371; Thu, 28 Dec 95 11:05:39 CST Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 28 Dec 95 11:21:17 +600 Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 28 Dec 95 11:21:03 +600 From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: FreeBSD Chat Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:20:57 +600 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "To parity, or not to parity; that is the question..." Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thus spake Donald Burr (Thu, 28 Dec 1995): | But I don't know what kind of memory I need to get. Check the number of chips, almost certainly there will be 1 per bit -- ie, 8: no parity, 9: parity. I may be wrong -- I often am. Or call your favorite RAM vendor and see what they suggest. Certainly this approach worked for 30pin SIMMs when they were the rage (until the 2 and 3-chip came along). I use non-parity now with good results. | | Unfortunately, since my computer is pretty much "home brew", I can't | exactly call up tech support and say "hey! Do I need parity chips for a | 486 computer?" Not unless the good book (manual) insists on it. | | People have said "check your BIOS setup program, if it has any settings | that mention anything parity-related, then you probably need it." I did | this, but alas, none of the configurable stuff had anythig even remotely | to do with parity. Nor did any of the jumper settings on the motherboard | do with this either. Nor did the manual mention anything about parity. | When mentioning how to add memory, it basically said "Buy them SIMM | things and stick'um in them thar little slots." And Sean Kelly thinks people from Dallas talk funny 8). | | What I CAN tell you is that my motherboard uses AMI WinBIOS, circa 1993. | WinBIOS is the one with the cutesy BIOS setup program that has a GUI that | looks like Windows. The motherboard is ISA+VLB, and supports 486 and | 486-Overdrive chips (i.e. it has a socket with more pins on it than a | normal 486 chip). The chipset on the motherboard is OPTi (OPTi895? | can't be sure until next I reboot). | | I have 2 4MB SIMM sticks in there now, for a total of 8 MB. I remember | when I bought them that they EACH ran slightly less than $200 (around | $198 or something) including CA sales tax (7.75%). (this was last | year) Neither the receipt nor the memory chips themselves say whether | they're parity or not, and the store doesn't have any idea either. | | My guess is that my system can take either parity or non-parity, since | most of the "clones" are pretty non-partial about it, and some don't even | check for parity errors. Just don't mix them. | | I apologize for asking this here, I quite simply had nowhere else to turn. | If you take offense, feel free to flame me in private. Sorry, I can't spell the sound of a match being struck phonetically (or any other way). | | Thanks for your help, and sorry I can't be a little more specific. | | Donald Burr [d_burr@ix.netcom.com], PO Box 91212, Santa Barbara CA 93190-1212 | TEL (805)564-1871 / FAX 564-2315 / WWW http://www.geopages.com/WallStreet/2072 | PGP Public Key available by request (send e-mail) or on Public Key Servers. | ** Uphold your right to privacy - Use PGP. ** | From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 09:37:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA18921 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.enet (slip139-92-42-171.emea.ibm.net [139.92.42.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18907 Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.enet (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA08080; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:13:45 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:13:45 +0100 (MET) From: "Julian Stacey jhs@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <199512272113.WAA08080@vector.enet> To: chat@freebsd.org, bsd-munich@vector.enet, gea@vector.enet Subject: German Telecom Charges Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. (Internet Unix & C Consultants) Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (pending reconfig) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH [version 1.6.5 95 12 11] Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -------- A cost saving suggestion for German residents this last week of '95 ... With German `Bundespest' Telekom about to halve the charge per unit, & divide by 4 the connect time per charge unit (ie double the charge for local on-line calls) as of Jan. 1 1996 ... It would seem worthwhile for these final few days to { Sup & Ftp & Telnet & Web-surf } like crazy up to Dec. 31. Switch emphasis on Jan 1. to testing & debugging things that need frequent short redials, such as configuring hylafax & uccp & auto redial ppp. Anyway, that's my plan for the pre & post new year transient period. PS I've sent this to different (non-overlapping) lists, so please trim the Cc: line if you reply, Thanks. Julian. -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 16:39:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA11137 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM ([198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11132 Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:39:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA08417; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:39:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:39:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Rashid Karimov , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ASUS P6/Pro MB and P6-200 In-Reply-To: <199512281431.JAA04565@rk.ios.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Rashid Karimov wrote: > Runs just fantastic ! - in full accordance with expectations, > but the problem is I can't find 200 Mhz CPU. > The motherboard is shipped from ASUS with 150Mhz CPU and it's > not clear who carries the 200Mhz one ? this is not fair! i just got a 586-90 at work and am happy. you all get to play with 686's!!!! how about running some benchmark code for us, just so we can see how miserable we really are :)) http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/scl/HINT/HINT.html can each of you (rashid and jordan) run the code and mail me the results for two cases. compile once with DATA_TYPE (in the Makefile) set to DOUBLE and once with it set to LONG. (code does not require any mods.) the sun guys here keep explaining to me why sparcs are better even though my 586 eats them alive ;) Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 20:51:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA24592 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA24586 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:51:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 20:51:47 -0800 (PST) From: Joerg Wunsch Message-Id: <199512290451.UAA24586@freefall.freebsd.org> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: test Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Testing mail-relay.de.freebsd.org. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Dec 28 21:10:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25836 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 21:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25828 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Dec 1995 21:10:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 21:10:24 -0800 (PST) From: Joerg Wunsch Message-Id: <199512290510.VAA25828@freefall.freebsd.org> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: another test Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hmm, hmm. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 29 17:43:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03230 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from comback.login.qc.ca (root@comback.login.qc.ca [192.219.254.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03221 Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from babylon.montreal.qc.ca (uucp@localhost) by comback.login.qc.ca (8.6.12/8.6.5) with UUCP id UAA13774; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 20:33:03 -0500 From: steve_jones@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (steve jones) Reply-To: steve_jones@babylon.montreal.qc.ca To: jhs@freebsd.org Cc: gea@vector.enet, bsd-munich@vector.enet, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: German Telecom Charges Date: 30 Dec 1995 00:42:05 GMT Message-Id: <3352424446.30954484@babylon.montreal.qc.ca> Organization: Babylon, Montreal, Canada Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Julian, Here's a bit of information in German which I picked up from a mailing list - - Richterspruch zu Feuerwerk Nach einer Entscheidung des Oberlandesgerichtes Nuernberg muss derjenige, der ein Feuerwerk zuendet, fuer genuegend Sicherheitsabstand zu den umstehenden Zuschauern sorgen. Verletzt er diese Pflicht, so riskiert er hohe Schadensersatzforderungen. Das Nuernberger Gericht entschied, dass selbst 10 Meter Abstand noch zu gering sein koennten. Seit heute laeuft der Verkauf von Feuerwerkskoerpern fuer den Jahreswechsel. Es wird geschaetzt, dass die Deutschen auch dieses Jahr wieder Millionen von Mark verpulvern. Have a happy new year, Steve in Montreal From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Dec 29 20:18:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA26119 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 20:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from chemserv.umd.edu (chemserv.umd.edu [129.2.64.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26110 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 20:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by chemserv.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29796 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.6.4) id XAA07210; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:17:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@espresso.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: 4 Gig SCSI disks. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't follow the magazine ads closely enough (too busy with classes is an excuse that seems to work) but I need to know what the present idea of a good deal on a 4 gig SCSI drive is (I'm thinking of expanding). Does anyone have any recent numbers they'd care to share? Thanks! ============================================================================ Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu -- I run FreeBSD on n3lxx and Journey2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Dilbert Zone is Dilbert's new WWW home! The area features never-before-seen original sketches of Dilbert, a photo tour of Scott Adams' studio, Dilbert Trivia and memorabilia, high school photos and much more!: