From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Oct 23 12:21:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19689 for fs-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:21:32 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19683 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:21:22 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA26907 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:26:11 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199510231526.LAA26907@hda.com> Subject: WORM fs To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 398 Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Are any of the working file systems appropriate for a WORM drive for an archival application? I would like to be able to mount the file system and search through the files in the usual manner. It can be unmounted for writing. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Oct 23 13:49:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26241 for fs-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:49:11 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26227 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:49:06 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20491; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:48:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199510232048.NAA20491@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WORM fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:26:11 EDT." <199510231526.LAA26907@hda.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:48:03 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-fs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Are any of the working file systems appropriate for a WORM drive >for an archival application? > >I would like to be able to mount the file system and search through >the files in the usual manner. It can be unmounted for writing. LFS would suit this task well, but it doesn't work in -current. >-- > >Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation >HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 >dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Oct 24 11:35:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA25410 for fs-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:43 -0700 Received: from serv05.slac.stanford.edu (SERV05.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.16.135]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25400 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:41 -0700 Received: from mailbox.SLAC.Stanford.EDU by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.0-4 #10979) id <01HWTFBIU5T0000J34@SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunreine.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (SUNREINE.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.113.77]) by mailbox.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA11658; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:26 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST.Stanford.EDU (LOCALHOST.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by sunreine.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA16495; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Pavel Subject: Re: WORM fs In-reply-to: "Your message of Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:48:03 PDT." <199510232048.NAA20491@aslan.cdrom.com> To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Peter Dufault , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199510241835.LAA16495@MAILBOX.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> X-Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center X-Envelope-to: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: sunreine.SLAC.Stanford.EDU: Host LOCALHOST.Stanford.EDU didn't use HELO protocol Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, "Justin T. Gibbs" write s: > >Are any of the working file systems appropriate for a WORM drive > >for an archival application? > > > >I would like to be able to mount the file system and search through > >the files in the usual manner. It can be unmounted for writing. > > LFS would suit this task well, but it doesn't work in -current. I'm not sure what the problems with LFS in FreeBSD-current are, but just for general info in case people weren't aware, there was a lot of work on LFS for BSD4.4 done by Margo Seltzer and co. You can find a discussion of various related issues in: http://das-www.harvard.edu/users/faculty/Margo_Seltzer/usenix.195.html and you can get the mods to the LFS sources in : ftp://virtual.harvard.edu/pub/margo/usenix.195/lfs.tar.gz The papers are interesting reading, as is Ousterhout's response. I haven't actually checked, but my understanding is that these mods have not been worked into either the FreeBSD or NetBSD kernels. If that is correct, then they would probably provide a good starting point for someone to get LFS working. For what it's worth, Tom Pavel Stanford Linear Accelerator Center pavel@slac.stanford.edu http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~pavel/ From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Oct 24 11:48:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-fs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA25941 for fs-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:48:29 -0700 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25936 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:48:27 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA24458; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:47:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199510241847.LAA24458@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Pavel cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Peter Dufault , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: WORM fs In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:35:23 PDT." <199510241835.LAA16495@MAILBOX.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 11:47:40 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-fs@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>>> On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, "Justin T. Gibbs" >write >s: > >> >Are any of the working file systems appropriate for a WORM drive >> >for an archival application? >> > >> >I would like to be able to mount the file system and search through >> >the files in the usual manner. It can be unmounted for writing. >> >> LFS would suit this task well, but it doesn't work in -current. > > >I'm not sure what the problems with LFS in FreeBSD-current are, but just >for general info in case people weren't aware, there was a lot of work on >LFS for BSD4.4 done by Margo Seltzer and co. You can find a discussion of >various related issues in: > http://das-www.harvard.edu/users/faculty/Margo_Seltzer/usenix.195.html >and you can get the mods to the LFS sources in : > ftp://virtual.harvard.edu/pub/margo/usenix.195/lfs.tar.gz >The papers are interesting reading, as is Ousterhout's response. Yup. I've had these patches sitting on my shelf since late December of last year. Mostly they allow LFS to use frags but there are some bug fixes in there too. The reason that LFS doesn't work in -current is that the whole implementation breaks VFS rules left and right, and when John changed some of the VFS interfaces for better performance a while back, LFS broke. I encourange anyone who has time to look into LFS, but be forwarned that portions of it are ugly as sin and it needs some large architectural changes to make it live up to its performance expectations. >I haven't actually checked, but my understanding is that these mods have >not been worked into either the FreeBSD or NetBSD kernels. If that is >correct, then they would probably provide a good starting point for someone >to get LFS working. NetBSD should be able to bring those changes in fairly easily. I need to first get the old code working under -current then merge all of my bug fixes in with Seltzer's code. >For what it's worth, It could be worth a lot. The benchmarks I got last year using LFS were quite impressive and this is without the many optimizations that are apprant when you wade throught the code. >Tom Pavel > >Stanford Linear Accelerator Center >pavel@slac.stanford.edu http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~pavel/ -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations ===========================================