From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 00:34:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA15382 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:34:54 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA15372 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:34:50 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <29059-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:43:50 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA22611; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:47:13 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.2a) id QAA11076; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:44:39 +1000 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:44:39 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199504230644.QAA11076@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> In the old DEC world there was a three piece cycle that was followed >> many times. A feature release followed by a robustness release. There >> was also a performance release that followed the robustness release. > >Yes, I think that a new/stable/fast cycle of 3 has a lot to be said >for it. What would people say to us going to the following numbering >scheme in support of this? > >.<0,1,2[,3..]>[.] I had to join in just to clear up a minor point for some of us who treat version numbers as something other than arbitrary (hopefully unique*) tags. Are you implying that 3.0 will roll out simply because 2.n used up its number range, or will 3.0 have to be, say, the first SMP edition, or the first multi-platform edition? It seems much more logical to me for the system to be: ... Thus, corresponds to truly large changes such as switching from net/2 to 4.4 (or the others I mentioned above), which you expect to offer great future gains, but short-term instability. corresponds to adding new but not world-shaking features, ie normal developmental progress. is fixing and polishing of the more recent features, hopefully without introducing any more features. is available for alpha, beta, gamma testing, or the existing snap system, whichever makes more sense to everyone. The major drama with this proposal is the requirement to branch the source tree when some people want to add major goodies while the rest are still polishing. Other posts implied that this was difficult, and that not enough people are available to ensure that fixes make it into both trees. It seems highly unlikely that people could simply hold off adding goodies because of the current position in the release cycle. Ok, I've bored a hundred people, but I'm just wishing that the numbering could be strictly hierachical with major change down to minor change. No trailing RELEASE, ALPHA or other difficult additions please. :-) Stephen. * Just look at Microsoft, who don't bother to update their release numbers for all changes! DISCLAIMER: I use this sort of numbering for my own stuff, but no one else seems to care what I use as long as the numbers increase! Final PS: I used 1.1 for a year with excellent stability right up until a SCSI tape bug bit-sprayed my hard disk. Now I'm having a very good time with 2.0R (modulo a small VM problem when accessing raw disk partitions). I think the people who complained about 1.1 and 2.0R are being far too harsh. Both are much better than the System V stuff I used to have! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 01:29:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA16842 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:29:10 -0700 Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16831 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:29:06 -0700 Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA27599 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199504230829.KAA27599@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: pb using maninstall Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:02 +0200 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld make maninstall from ld : ld.1 make realinstall from ldconfig : ldconfig.8 from ldd : ldd.1 make install or afterinstall from ldconfig : ldconfig.8 from ldd : ldd.1 from rtld : cd /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld; install ld.1 /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld is particular because it contains a PROG (ld) and contains subdirs containing others PROGs (ldconfig, ldd, rtld). I tried the following (BUT FAILED) because maninstall go into subdirs and current dir but install don't see current dir. =================================================================== RCS file: /home2h/FreeBSD.cvsroot/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.16 diff -c -r1.16 Makefile *** 1.16 1994/12/23 22:30:29 --- Makefile 1995/04/22 16:13:49 *************** *** 16,19 **** --- 16,20 ---- .PATH: $(.CURDIR)/$(MACHINE) + .include .include Is .../usr.bin/ld a or a ? That is the question. The correct solution (IMHO) will be to create .../usr.bin/ld/ld and to deprecate .../usr.bin/ld as a dir. These entries are also suspicious: ./libexec/bootpd make maninstall /usr/src/libexec/bootpd; install bootptab.5 /usr/src/libexec/bootpd; install bootpd.8 make install /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/tools/bootpef; install bootpef.8 /usr/src/libexec/bootpd/tools/bootptest; install bootptest.8 /usr/src/libexec/bootpd; install bootptab.5 /usr/src/libexec/bootpd; install bootpd.8 ./usr.sbin/named make maninstall /usr/src/usr.sbin/named; install named.8 make install /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/tools/named.reload; install named.reload.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/tools/named.restart; install named.restart.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/named/xfer; install named-xfer.8 /usr/src/usr.sbin/named; install named.8 ./usr.sbin/portmap make maninstall /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap; install portmap.8 make install ===> pmap_set no man page ===> pmap_dump ditto /usr/src/usr.sbin/portmap; install portmap.8 I found a typo in bsd.prog.mk, see below .if defined(PROG) .if defined(SRCS) .else defined(PROG) <---- should be .else defined(SRCS) SRCS= ${PROG}.c .endif .if !defined(MAN1) && !defined(MAN2) && !defined(MAN3) && \ !defined(MAN4) && !defined(MAN5) && !defined(MAN6) && \ !defined(MAN7) && !defined(MAN8) && !defined(NOMAN) MAN1= ${PROG}.1 .endif .endif -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 01:42:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA17185 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:42:59 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA17179 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:42:51 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA09488 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:35:10 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA09374; 23 Apr 95 03:34:17 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA09371; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:34:17 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504230834.DAA09371@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504230251.AA10096@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 22, 95 08:51:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 454 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On the other hand, there are many reporting tools (ps, etc.) that > have a limit on the number of tty type devices based on a interface > identifier character and one or two instance identifiers (for ps this > is one). What tools other than PS have this field-overflow type of problem? It's the only one that ever gets brought up. If it's really the only thing standing in the way of sensible device naming then it's time to change the output format. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 01:56:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA17761 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:56:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA17752 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:56:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) cc: kmitch@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with current (IDE/pdksh port) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 95 22:36:30 PDT." <199504230536.WAA26275@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:56:46 -0700 Message-ID: <17751.798627406@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504230536.WAA26275@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU>, Satoshi Asami | =?I SO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?= writes: >When it got to the "checking for working mmap", it just hang. No >answers to ping or anything. I don't know what the status it is now, >nobody at WC seems to have the time to take a look at thud.... Sorry - we were out getting parts for wcarchive. I've just brought thud back up from a panic ``locking against myself'' (whatever that means!). For those intrepid adventurers there is a panic dump available. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 01:59:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA17859 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:59:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA17848 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:59:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Henrich cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Best SCSI Controller In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 95 22:00:11 EDT." <199504230200.TAA09881@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:59:04 -0700 Message-ID: <17846.798627544@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > controller for FreeBSD? It seems BusLogic support has been around a loong > time, so Im lookint at the 946c as agood choice, comments? (What do you run > Jordan?) I recommend and run with the Bt946c. Performance is good, the price is right and Buslogic itself is a company I'm always more than willing to endorse. They've been very helpful in providing us with information when needed, their tech support department actually seems to know their product (and returns phone calls), and when I needed PROM upgrades for 2 of my cards they Federal Expressed the new ones to me at no cost and with NO questions asked! A company with a customer service attitude like this deserves all the business they can get, IMNSHO. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 02:02:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA18152 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:02:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA18137 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:02:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com (Gary Palmer), tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:46:10 MDT." <9504230246.AA10045@cs.weber.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:02:42 -0700 Message-ID: <18134.798627762@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. Actually, a Japanese research institute recently announced their freely available DHCP for BSD software but their license agreement is simply too onerous to consider living with. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 02:27:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA18868 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:27:38 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18859 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:27:35 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA26469; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:27:21 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504230927.CAA26469@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com In-Reply-To: <18134.798627762@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 23, 95 02:02:42 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 472 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. > > Actually, a Japanese research institute recently announced their > freely available DHCP for BSD software but their license agreement is > simply too onerous to consider living with. > onerous or not we either need a binary, on the cdrom or a pointer to it.. this is the kind of stuff that sell a product..... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 02:36:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19067 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:36:51 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19060 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:36:45 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA25575; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:33:15 +1000 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:33:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504230933.TAA25575@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: charnier@lirmm.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: pb using maninstall Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld is particular because it contains a PROG (ld) >and contains subdirs containing others PROGs (ldconfig, ldd, rtld). >I tried the following (BUT FAILED) because maninstall go into subdirs and >current dir but install don't see current dir. >diff -c -r1.16 Makefile > ... >+ .include >Is .../usr.bin/ld a or a ? That is the question. It is both. bsd.prog.mk is supposed to handle this, and does handle it for other targets. The handling is not quite right. E.g., if you run `make -k install' in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld and there is an error, then the subdirs are not entered. I often get this error when I run `make -k install' with an nfs mounted /usr. I want this to install only to directories on the root partition and continue after access errors on the /usr partition. It works except /sbin/ld.so doesn't get installed because the rtld subdir doesn't get entered. >The correct solution (IMHO) will be to create .../usr.bin/ld/ld and to >deprecate .../usr.bin/ld as a dir. I like the existing layout. Someone should fix bsd.prog.mk. I think it is easy to add the maninstall rule by copying an existing rule. >I found a typo in bsd.prog.mk, see below >.if defined(PROG) >.if defined(SRCS) >.else defined(PROG) <---- should be .else defined(SRCS) Shouldn't it be `.else !defined(SRCS)? :-) >SRCS= ${PROG}.c >.endif >.if !defined(MAN1) && !defined(MAN2) && !defined(MAN3) && \ > !defined(MAN4) && !defined(MAN5) && !defined(MAN6) && \ > !defined(MAN7) && !defined(MAN8) && !defined(NOMAN) >MAN1= ${PROG}.1 >.endif >.endif It's hard to see which ifdefs the endifs correspond too. None of the endifs in /usr/src/share/mk/*.mk is commented, although "comments" seem work due to design bugs the same as in traditional C: .ifdef FOO .else !FOO .endif FOO (Gnu standard) but also .ifdef FOO .else WRONG .endif :-( garbage :-( Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 02:40:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19250 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:40:21 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19242 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:40:18 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA27009; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:40:10 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:40:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199504230940.CAA27009@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com CC: kmitch@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <17751.798627406@freefall.cdrom.com> (gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Problems with current (IDE/pdksh port) From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Sorry - we were out getting parts for wcarchive. I've just brought thud back * up from a panic ``locking against myself'' (whatever that means!). * For those intrepid adventurers there is a panic dump available. Thanks...it's running happily now, I disabled pdksh in the upper-level Makefile for now. Please someone take a look into the panic dump. Hey, isn't David Greenman still around? :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 02:55:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19794 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:55:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA19787 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:55:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: waddell@POSC.org (Dave Waddell), gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: To anyone who lives in Houston TX. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 95 20:42:15 PDT." <199504230342.UAA25503@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:55:55 -0700 Message-ID: <19786.798630955@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > While we're about it Are the there any single women here, within > driving distance of SF? > :) :) None that I'd introduce to a known Australian! We've too few available women here already - go get your own Sheila, you aussie wolf in cheap clothing! Ours are so innocent and unsuspecting - they wouldn't know what hit them and then would be embittered for life, leaving the pool of available women even sparser for the rest of us! You guys are worse than a water lily infestation! :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:03:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA20077 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:03:54 -0700 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA20070 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:03:48 -0700 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0s2yW5-0000MgC; Sun, 23 Apr 95 03:03 PDT Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA10084 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:03:44 -0700 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199504231003.DAA10084@io.cts.com> Subject: current disk trouble To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:03:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1386 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After -current from a week ago, booting up resulted in some kernel messages about disk partitions not being fully within slices and partitions starting at block 1, and other things that make you think there's something seriously wrong with your drives. I set up FreeBSD initially when the 2.0R version was released in late November 1994, and used its tools to set up the FreeBSD partitions. Not sure what needs to be done (if anything can be done) to avoid these errors without wiping out everything I've set up (that seemed to work just fine before). Of course, I've been using the system for a week now with no real side-effects, but every time I reboot and see those kernel messages, it bugs me. fdisk says: ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0d ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=419 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=419 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) fdisk: Invalid fdisk partition table found Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 0 is: The data for partition 1 is: The data for partition 2 is: The data for partition 3 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 1, size 422351 (206 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 0/ sector 2/ head 0; end: cyl 419/ sector 1/ head 0 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:09:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA20300 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:09:55 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA20294 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:09:54 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 03:09 PDT From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: [DEVFS] related matters Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There are a few matters pertaining to devfs that reflect out to other parts of the system. These include: 1/time: it appears that 'time' is not set up at teh time of device probing. this means that the fields in the device structures that correspond to mtime, atime and ctime are initialised to teh epoch (Jan1 1970).. which is obviously NOT one of the options for the correct value.. possible work-arounds include: a/ passing through the whole tree later and 'touching' each device (yuk). b/ changing the place in the initialisation where the real time is read in from the CMOS.. 2/VFS initialisation: At device probe time, the VFS hasn't been initialised yet.. I've worked around this in two ways: a/ he first time a device registers with devfs, the initialisation routines are called. b/ Pointers that would normally point to the methods structures (which are set up and created by VFS initialisation) are made to be pointers to pointers, where the address given is the address of a location that AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE, will point to the methods, (when they are finally set up). This means that there is an extra indirection on all devfs operations and should somehow a device need to be accessed before the VFS is set up, it will probably get a page fault. I would like to move these two initialisations to be BEFORE the device initialisations.. Can anyone see what the problems are with this.. 3/DEVICES that are never attached. Some devices are never probed or attached in the same way that (say) a serial port is.. An example of this is /dev/mem. I would like to either a/ add a special table of such devices at the beginning of autoconf or somewhere, so that they can have entries placed in the devfs for them.. or b/ add some small init/attach functions to these devices and place their names in some 'compusory devices' list so that they can be attached like any other device. The fact that some devices just 'are' without any initilisation code has always irked me for some reason.. If the cdevsw and bdevsw are to be made dynamic, (or ever made to go away), then probably each device will need an init routine anyway, unless a general init routine reading a table will do... Your thoughts are solicited on these topics..... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:24:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA20838 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:24:56 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20832 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:24:54 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA26650 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:24:53 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504231024.DAA26650@ref.tfs.com> Subject: [EISA] related matters To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 979 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The present scheme of allocating devices to one of a number of spl levels and configuring them by those queues is in my opinion, broken.. How are PCI and EISA devices supposed to fit in with this if my EISA devices have different spls, should I add them to the queues used by the isa code, or should I some how beat up the priority masks for each device? it would seem to me that the whole situation would be simpler if we could simply let each device set a spl elvel individually, and only have a single list of devices (one for ISA). The problem is that for PCI and EISA busses, the devices are found in the order they appear on the bus rather than the order they appear on some internal list. This breaks the way that the isa probing code works and makes it very difficult to fit in with it.. other OS's (e.g. mach) manage to allow the masks for each device be individually specified in any order.. does anyone see why we shouldn't use their code for the job? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:39:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA21248 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:39:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA21241 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:39:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 02:27:21 PDT." <199504230927.CAA26469@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:39:46 -0700 Message-ID: <21239.798633586@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > onerous or not we either need a binary, on the cdrom or a pointer to it.. > this is the kind of stuff that sell a product..... I'll try to dig up the reference - they sent something to this list awhile back.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:47:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA21420 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:47:11 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA21411 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:46:55 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA27202; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:42:25 +1000 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:42:25 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504231042.UAA27202@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@TFS.COM Subject: Re: [DEVFS] related matters Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >There are a few matters pertaining to devfs that reflect out to >other parts of the system. These include: >1/time: > it appears that 'time' is not set up at teh time of device probing. If the CMOS clock is on local time, then the correct time is not available until after adjkerntz has run. > possible work-arounds include: > a/ passing through the whole tree later and 'touching' > each device (yuk). Yuk. > b/ changing the place in the initialisation where > the real time is read in from the CMOS.. adjkerntz (or something that understands all the timezone rules) can't be run until a file system has been mounted, and you need timestamps long before that. I think the localtime offset should be stored in superblocks and used to fix the clock in mountroot(), but even that is too late for devfs - you would have to touch all the devices opened before mountroot(). >2/VFS initialisation: > At device probe time, the VFS hasn't been initialised yet.. I don't understand the details here, but if you need a lot of fixup hooks then the hooks can handle the times too. >3/DEVICES that are never attached. > Some devices are never probed or attached in the same way that > (say) a serial port is.. An example of this is /dev/mem. > I would like to either > a/ add a special table of such devices > at the beginning of autoconf or somewhere, so that > they can have entries placed in the devfs for them.. > or > b/ add some small init/attach functions to these devices > and place their names in some 'compusory devices' > list so that they can be attached like any other device. Use (b). You will need a device for all the minors and config doesn't know all the minors even for serial ports. E.g., there may be up to 16 ports on Cyclades cards and it doesn't seem reasonable to require a config line for each port. Perhaps you should depend on devconf's registerdev() functions getting called. Should they be called for each subdevice on a `controller' device even when not all the subdevices are handled by config? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 03:51:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA21518 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:51:58 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA21512 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:51:55 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id DAA04598; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:51:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:51:52 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199504231051.DAA04598@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: benchmark hell.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!Rezonet.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!usenet From: leopapan@papandreou.interax.net (Leo Papandreou) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: FreeBSD performance Date: 23 Apr 1995 00:08:00 GMT Organization: Inter-Acces Communications Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3nc5p0$vj2@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: g7014.258.interlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.11 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- BYTE UNIX Benchmarks (Version 3.11) (A) Linux 1.1.49 Plato P90 32MB Seagate ST31200N ncr8150 ?? (B) Linux 1.1.49 ASUS PC/I-P54SP4 P90, 16MB HP C3323SE "" (C) FreeBSD 2.0 Plato P90 32MB Seagate ST32250N BT946C (NOTE: A & B taken from www.fintronic.com) A B C ---------- ----------- ---------- Arithmetic (double) 15937.5 6.3 15886.1 6.3 17736.8 7.0 Dhrystone 2 no regs 132809.9 5.9 129854.2 5.8 120128.7 5.4 Execl Throughput 102.4 6.2 113.7 6.9 51.4 3.1 ? File Copy 2447.0 13.7 3149.0 17.6 3256.0 18.2 Pipe-base Context Switching 14451.8 11.0 11538.4 8.8 6150.8 4.7 ? Shell scripts (8 concurrent) 23.0 5.8 24.0 6.0 17.0 4.2 SUM 48.8 51.3 42.6 AVG 8.1 8.5 7.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disregarding File Copy because of the Barracuda, Arithmetic and Dhrystone because they're cpu bound, FreeBSD seems 2 times slower than Linux in the essential UNIX measurements. A very wide margin indeed. Admittedly my one system and some vendor's stats arent to be construed as comprehensive- but 2 times!? The other interesting thing is that (C) with 8MB had dd showing 6.99 MB/sec (really!) but as soon as it was upgraded to 32MB throughput dropped to ~3.7 MB/sec. I have to say that the system doesnt feel any slower and conclude that it always had a throughput of 3.7. Regardless, this looks like a bug to me. Comments? /Leo From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 04:16:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22000 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:16:34 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA21994 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:16:30 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA27389; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:16:25 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:16:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199504231116.EAA27389@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: strange behavior with sh and dangling symlinks From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The below is on a 0416-snap system Rod put together for me. (It happens on older systems too.) ===== >> sh $ ls $ mkdir a $ ln -s ../b a $ echo */b */b $ touch b $ echo */b a/b $ /bin/rm b $ echo */b */b $ echo a/* a/b $ ls -lL a total 0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 asami grad 4 Apr 23 04:11 b -> ../b $ ===== In short, "*/filename" doesn't expand properly when the target of the symlink doesn't exist. "dirname/*" does expand, so this is inconsistent, to say the least. This happens only in sh. tcsh and bash expands everything fine. (I found this trying to track down why bsd.port.mk was behaving funnily when I removed the "real" package in .packages/ before removing the symlinks in other subdirs....) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 04:21:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22031 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:21:12 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22024 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:20:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA27990; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:20:23 +1000 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:20:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504231120.VAA27990@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This discussion should probaly be in freebsd-current. >The present scheme of allocating devices to one of a number >of spl levels and configuring them by those queues is in my opinion, broken.. The isa version of FreeBSD actually has sets of interrupts and not levels. The sets may overlap. Configuration is broken but it is hard to avoid having unwanted interdependencies of the sets without changing large amounts of "machine-independent" code. E.g., splbio() would have to be replaced by (*splbio[bp->splbiotab])() for minimal locking while working on block `bp'. These changes would probably just make things slower. >How are PCI and EISA devices supposed to fit in with this >if my EISA devices have different spls, should I add them to the queues >used by the isa code, or should I some how beat up the priority masks >for each device? If there is an isa `bio' device (e.g., fd) and an eisa `bio' device (e.g. sd) then `biomask' has to contain the union of the interrupt masks for the two devices so that the "machine-independent" code doesn't have to care whether it is working on an fd block or an sd block, or a mixture. >it would seem to me that the whole situation would be simpler >if we could simply let each device set a spl elvel individually, >and only have a single list of devices (one for ISA). This would be easy to allow at interrupt time: just mask the interrupt that occurred and not everything in the xxx_imask for the interrupt. This wouldn't simplify the problem of initializing the xxx_imask's, however. >The problem is that for PCI and EISA busses, the devices are found >in the order they appear on the bus rather than the order they appear >on some internal list. This breaks the way that >the isa probing code works and makes it very difficult to >fit in with it.. >other OS's (e.g. mach) manage to allow the masks for each device be >individually specified in any order.. >does anyone see why we shouldn't use their code for the job? Is it encumbered? NetBSD also has better code for this. I think it recalculates all the xxx_imasks whenever something important has changed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 04:36:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22491 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:36:35 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22485 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:36:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA04058; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:33:45 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504231133.EAA04058@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: pb using maninstall To: charnier@lirmm.fr (Philippe Charnier) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 04:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230829.KAA27599@lirmm.lirmm.fr> from "Philippe Charnier" at Apr 23, 95 10:29:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1743 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > > in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld > > make maninstall > from ld : ld.1 > > make realinstall > from ldconfig : ldconfig.8 > from ldd : ldd.1 > > make install or afterinstall > from ldconfig : ldconfig.8 > from ldd : ldd.1 > from rtld : cd /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld; install ld.1 > > > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld is particular because it contains a PROG (ld) > and contains subdirs containing others PROGs (ldconfig, ldd, rtld). > > I tried the following (BUT FAILED) because maninstall go into subdirs and > current dir but install don't see current dir. > > > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home2h/FreeBSD.cvsroot/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/Makefile,v > retrieving revision 1.16 > diff -c -r1.16 Makefile > *** 1.16 1994/12/23 22:30:29 > --- Makefile 1995/04/22 16:13:49 > *************** > *** 16,19 **** > --- 16,20 ---- > > .PATH: $(.CURDIR)/$(MACHINE) > > + .include > .include bsd.prog.mk already contains the equivelent of bsd.subdir.mk, this patch is not the right thing to do. There is some brokenness in the .mk files that is not so easy to fix though do to overloaded target names :-(. maninstall is really an internal target that was not meant to be used by the user. You are abusing an undocumented ``feature'' and expecting it to do what *you* want it to do and not what the internals of the .mk files want it to do. Please read src/share/mk/bsd.README, there is no exported target called maninstall for a #include of -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 05:19:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24683 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 05:19:31 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA24677 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 05:19:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with UUCP id VAA08744; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:02:02 +0901 Received: by tama.spec.co.jp (8.6.11/6.4J.5) id LAA00554; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:37:22 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai Message-Id: <199504230237.LAA00554@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:37:21 +0900 (JST) Cc: lloth@menzo.sojourn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221431.QAA18340@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Apr 22, 95 04:31:42 pm Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 647 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can Free BSD do dynamic IP addressing? I have a customer that needs to be > > able to handle dynamic IP addressing in order to get on-line. Is this possible? > > Both PPP shipped in FreeBSD do of course support dynamic address assignment. > It is in the PPP standard. I use it myself. I might be mis-reading a dynamic address assignment. But if you mean it as assignment (candidate for negotiation) by un-used address pool. We need to implement DHCP client function. Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 05:54:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA25833 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 05:54:51 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA25823 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 05:54:41 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA21044 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:47:43 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Apr 95 16:47:43 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA01446; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:54:57 +0400 To: Bruce Evans , hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@TFS.COM References: <199504231042.UAA27202@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199504231042.UAA27202@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:42:25 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:54:56 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: [DEVFS] related matters Lines: 24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1173 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504231042.UAA27202@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >> b/ changing the place in the initialisation where >> the real time is read in from the CMOS.. >adjkerntz (or something that understands all the timezone rules) can't >be run until a file system has been mounted, and you need timestamps long >before that. I think the localtime offset should be stored in superblocks >and used to fix the clock in mountroot(), but even that is too late for >devfs - you would have to touch all the devices opened before mountroot(). I think kernel must remember last boot time and last timezone offset before adjkerntz will be run (stored somewhere at boot device). Adjkerntz will be gmtoffset and run in any case in future to deal with local-time systems like msdosfs even when your CMOS clock is GMT, but I am not shure that I can finish it before release. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 06:03:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26335 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 06:03:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA26328 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 06:03:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: amurai@spec.co.jp cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), lloth@menzo.sojourn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 11:37:21 +0900." <199504230237.LAA00554@tama.spec.co.jp> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 06:03:56 -0700 Message-ID: <26325.798642236@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I might be mis-reading a dynamic address assignment. But if you mean > it as assignment (candidate for negotiation) by un-used address pool. > We need to implement DHCP client function. That may have been what he was talking about. Do you know anything about the other Japanese group working on DHCP? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 07:07:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29463 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:07:59 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29455 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:07:49 -0700 Received: from localhost (uucp@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with UUCP id WAA10192; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:50:34 +0900 Received: by tama.spec.co.jp (8.6.11/6.4J.5) id WAA00871; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:47:21 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai Message-Id: <199504231347.WAA00871@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:47:21 +0900 (JST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com In-Reply-To: <18134.798627762@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 23, 95 02:02:42 am Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 857 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. > > Actually, a Japanese research institute recently announced their > freely available DHCP for BSD software but their license agreement is > simply too onerous to consider living with. That's right. Once I try to make sure license agreement by JAPANESE directly, they want to continue to work with them by centrized themselves. Addition You can get them from Network and modify them as you like but NOT ALLOW re-distribute with any modification. So what shall we do ? > Jordan > Atsushi. P.S. Functionality itself seems to be OK for me. -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 07:08:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29485 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:08:15 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29466 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:08:02 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA22835; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:10:25 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504231410.KAA22835@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: Best SCSI Controller To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <17846.798627544@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 23, 95 01:59:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 748 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, > > > controller for FreeBSD? It seems BusLogic support has been around a loong > > time, so Im lookint at the 946c as agood choice, comments? (What do you run > > Jordan?) > > I recommend and run with the Bt946c. Performance is good, the price > is right and Buslogic itself is a company I'm always more than willing > to endorse. They've been very helpful in providing us with [skipped] > me at no cost and with NO questions asked! A company with a customer > service attitude like this deserves all the business they can get, > IMNSHO. I vote for bt946c too - run it here at P/90 w/o problems for 4 months. Don't have any expirience regarding customer support though ( this itself is a benchmark of quality ) :) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 07:26:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29731 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:26:58 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29610 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:22:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (uucp@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with UUCP id XAA10333; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:05:23 +0900 Received: by tama.spec.co.jp (8.6.11/6.4J.5) id XAA01003; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:01:53 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai Message-Id: <199504231401.XAA01003@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:01:53 +0900 (JST) Cc: amurai@spec.co.jp, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <26325.798642236@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 23, 95 06:03:56 am Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 553 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That may have been what he was talking about. Do you know anything about > the other Japanese group working on DHCP? I don't think anyone is working on DHCP for paticulary system like a FreeBSD. But it's easy to compile as a bsd4.4-ish os but not mas-re-distribution causing by their licence agreement. And a DHCP client itself can be ported easily with their library > Jordan Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 10:12:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02583 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:12:43 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02577 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:12:36 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA12334 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:50 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA05659; 23 Apr 95 12:10:07 CDT (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05656 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199504231710.MAA05656@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 1.1.5.1 ports X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:04 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to set up a pretty complete 1.1.5.1 FTP site, so that between it and the 1.1 CD you can pretty much recover all the 1.1.5.1 environment that used to be available at ftp.cdrom.com. Unfortunately my FTP access is pretty slow, over a PPP link... I found the following ports at gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE that were not on the 1.1 CDROM. Are these all the "new" ports? Were any of the old ports updated between 1.1 and 1.1.5.1? ports/game: nethack.tar.gz xmine.tar.gz ports/lang: itcl.tar.gz logo.tar.gz ports/net: fspclient.tar.gz ports/util: cpm.tar.gz ispell.tar.gz sattrack.tar.gz hfs.tar.gz libmytinfo.tar.gz ports/x11: gnuplot.tar.gz kterm.tar.gz piewm.tar.gz rxvt.tar.gz xphoon.tar.gz Yes, I know 1.1.5.1 is the past, but there's quite a few people still using it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 10:29:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02819 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:29 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02813 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:21 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02570; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:29:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA09354 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:28:59 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id SAA01390 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:50 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504231623.SAA01390@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: DIGIBOARD driver in ~julian To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:47 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504211708.AA03664@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 21, 95 11:08:42 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1012 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There was a recent court case where Microsoft won against Stacker on > the basis of drawing a distinction between "Reverse Engineering", > which is perfectly legal ain the US, and "Deep Reverse Engineering", > a term best spoken into a coffee can to get those Darth Vader-like > echoes. ... > I really urge that people look into cleanrooming before assuming that > the only place it can be done is a non-Berne signatory or non-Gatt > signatory country. > ... > I wouldn't have replied, but the message to which I'm responding > implies a limitation to where you are allowed to cleanroom which > simply does not exist. If people took this to heart, it would > artificially restrict the pool of talent that can be used for > cleanroom coding -- and that would be a bad thing. Thanks for enlightening this, Terry. I've really been under the impression that it was beyond legality in US to disassemble some- thing (and i will yet have to check it again -- but it's still my believe for the german situation). From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 10:29:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02826 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02808 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:29:11 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02578; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:29:02 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA09363 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:29:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id TAA01486 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:03:17 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504231703.TAA01486@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:03:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504222155.RAA05328@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 22, 95 05:55:18 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1758 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Our mailing list definition: > > > freebsd-hackers Technical discussions and suggestions > ... > > freebsd-current Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current > ... > > If -hackers isn't technical which lists are? > Also, which are the development lists? Am I missing out on a whole > bunch of good technical discussion about FreeBSD? I agree with Peter here. What we really need is to have a few more people reviewing Usenet and scanning the queued articles for problems that fall into their `responsibility'. By now, there are only a few people visible in Usenet. Most of the load appears to be on Jordan. Stefan Esser is a very positive example, i usually let PCI-related articles queued without an answer but the idea in mind: `Stefan will certainly have answered this one within the next couple of days.' Ah yeah, not to forget Terry, who appears to be discussing on several hundreds of Usenet groups and mailing lists. :-) Of course, it's also possible for major contributors who have a wide area of responsibility to find someone acting as a ``Usenet gateway and answer cache'' :-), who can answer the `FAQ of the week' out of his cache, and forward the real technical questions to the person in question. This way, those who're already snowed under won't have to handle the immense load of Usenet, while they can make sure that they won't lose important problem reports. (My own recent Usenet activities are rather a side-effect of problems in my paywork. I can't play this role forever.) The hackers list is already near 10 MB / month. I won't like to see it further bloated. Remember there are enough people in the outside world who really have to _pay_ for every and each kilobyte of mail. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 10:41:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03038 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:41:08 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03029 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:41:06 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA19443; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:40:47 -0701 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA10084; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:40:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:40:00 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504231740.KAA10084@geli.clusternet> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, the real measure would be Linux 1.2++ and FreeBSD from mid March on. And file copy on the Barracuda isn't so hot, I only get ~3.5 MB/s on bonnie out of mine, so I suspect that the advantage there is real. That leaves just the execl and pipe based context switch to check out. It's been years since I ran these, aren't there a lot more tests? Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 10:55:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03219 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:55:59 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03213 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:55:57 -0700 Received: from jsdinc.root.com (uucp@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with UUCP id KAA09135; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:55:49 -0700 Received: (root@localhost) by jsdinc.root.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id MAA02465; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:56:23 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199504231256.MAA02465@jsdinc.root.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com (Russell L. Carter) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:56:23 +0000 () Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199504231740.KAA10084@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Apr 23, 95 10:40:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 770 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, the real measure would be Linux 1.2++ and FreeBSD from > mid March on. And file copy on the Barracuda isn't so hot, > I only get ~3.5 MB/s on bonnie out of mine, so I suspect > that the advantage there is real. That leaves just the execl > and pipe based context switch to check out. It's been > years since I ran these, aren't there a lot more tests? > > Russell > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we use. Without shared libs, our fork/exec times kick-butt. I think that we-all have made some improvements in the times now so that my lmbench fork/exec tests (with our shared libs) on my 486/66 are fairly close to the example Linux Pentium results. But, our pipe performance could be better though. John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 11:08:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03371 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:08:06 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03365 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:08:01 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA01421; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:06:49 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504231806.TAA01421@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:06:48 +0100 (BST) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504222155.RAA05328@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 22, 95 05:55:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 900 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Peter Dufault who said > > Our mailing list definition: > > > freebsd-hackers Technical discussions and suggestions > ... > > freebsd-current Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current > > I don't mind having "questions" gated to the newsgroup. I don't > want to see hackers gated. IMHO, -current isn't for technical Hmm, ok. I guess questions is the more appropriate list to gateway. Can someone who knows about these things step forward because I've got no idea how to actually set this up :-) Are there any dissenting views, if no-one speaks up in the next few days I'll actively pursue doing this. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 11:28:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03741 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:28:40 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA03728 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:28:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:25:35 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Peter da Silva cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504201147.GAA18141@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 06:47:46 -0500 (CDT) > From: Peter da Silva > To: Anthony Graphics > Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > > > |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC > > ^^ > > AXP PCI 33 board costs approx 1100 USD with 166 mhz Alpha in the States > > And OSF/1 costs over $1500 (or rather, the price difference for OSF/1 is > over $1500). Well, 1-2 User licence costs $300 or 400 to my best knowledge (DEC calls it media with basic docs?) I can tell you how to upgrade to the unlimited user licence for free ;-) A bit of trickery with LMF and ... ;^] Hmm, but you'd probably need to multiply memory requirement by x4 so it's out of comparison anyway for the memory intensive apps (what is not memory intesive anyway? ;^) AGL > > Since you're pretty much stuck with NT for your AXP PCI 33 if you want to > benefit from the price, I class it as a PC rather than a WS. Hopefully > NetBSD will change that. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 11:45:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04337 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:45:59 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04330 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:45:58 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA01489; Sun, 23 Apr 95 11:43:17 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s36Zj-0005PMC; Sun, 23 Apr 95 20:40 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 18:40:06 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It turns out that it _is_ possible to set a variable, but there's a trick to it. Normally, gdb opens the core-file (e.g. /dev/mem) read-only. In order to get it to open the core-file for writing, you need to do the following: root:peedub:bash:69> gdb -k /kernel <--- this... GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.13 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (kgdb) set write <--- and this... (kgdb) core-file /dev/mem <--- and this IdlePTD 19a000 current pcb at 624000 #0 0xf010dcf3 in mi_switch () (kgdb) p/x ttydebug $1 = 0x0 (kgdb) set ttydebug=1 (kgdb) p/x ttydebug $2 = 0x1 (kgdb) set ttydebug=0 (kgdb) p/x ttydebug $3 = 0x0 (kgdb) q this opens the core-file for writing. It has to be done in this order because the "set write" command sets a variable (write_files) in exec.c which is tested in kcorelow.c when the core-file is opened. If you try to just do the following: gdb -k set write exec-file /kernel you'll get an error, because gdb tries to open /kernel for writing, which (for some reason) fails miserably. Maybe we should have a "-w" flag to specify opening the core-file for writing ? Any opinions ? Could you add this tip to the kernel-debug.FAQ, J"org ? Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 11:51:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04459 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:51:42 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04445 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:51:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:48:40 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Terry Lambert cc: Peter da Silva , rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <9504201758.AA25719@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:58:21 MDT > From: Terry Lambert > To: Peter da Silva > Cc: agl@mac.glas.apc.org, rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > > > > |> work on the price of the WS vs the Price of a good PC > > > ^^ > > > AXP PCI 33 board costs approx 1100 USD with 166 mhz Alpha in the States > > > > And OSF/1 costs over $1500 (or rather, the price difference for OSF/1 is > > over $1500). > > > > Since you're pretty much stuck with NT for your AXP PCI 33 if you want to > > benefit from the price, I class it as a PC rather than a WS. Hopefully > > NetBSD will change that. > > My neighbor (well, 5 minutes, anyway) is doing the Linux port to that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The scheduler comes from the 1.2.5 ? ;v) I was pretty happy about our new Linux box(ASUS SP3G NCR53C810,Mach32 DRAM, AST clone) until I run into the following problem: when I'm doing mt retension everything else dies (I mean until the command completes the system turns into Windoze box running in the DOS compatibility session) So I'm now stuck with the question what sucks: NCR driver in Linux NCR itself (kidding?) or the system in whole... The previous server (VLB machine assembled from the parts of unknown origin ;-) dealt with this simple task much better (with Aha1542C) so I think the problem lies in the driver. > box. You are not limited to NT. ^^ I think nobody on this list haven't considered it as an alternative ;^) > > Neither FreeBSD nor NetBSD is poised to port easily, even though > NetBSD has an Alpha port, since neither system has dealt with the > issue of a generic bus attach mechanism. There was some argument > recently, actually that this type of thing should be avoided -- I > think this is probably a bad idea. > > I was recently involved in some NetBSD discussions with, among others, > Charles. As usual, I wanted a more radical change than people were > willing to buy off on initially. 8-). NetBSD will be moving in the > right direction, anyway. > > > I think all it would take is one architecture port to force the issue > for FreeBSD. > > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 11:58:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04669 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:58:29 -0700 Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com (4@kaiwan.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04663 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:58:28 -0700 Received: from exit.com (uucp@localhost) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with UUCP id LAA17945; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:58:11 -0700 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from frank@localhost) by exit.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA23543; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:45:21 -0700 From: Frank Mayhar Message-Id: <199504231845.LAA23543@exit.com> Subject: Re: 1.1.5.1 ports To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504231710.MAA05656@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 23, 95 12:10:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 681 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, I know 1.1.5.1 is the past, but there's quite a few people still using it. Ayup. And will be, at least until 2.1 comes out, and maybe a bit past that. I've stayed with 1.1.5.1 because of the stability it had which 2.0, sadly, lacked. One thing that would be useful (for myself and, undoubtedly, others) would be some kind of upgrade script, that would avoid the necessity of a complete from-scratch reinstall. (As far as I'm concerned, something based on the sources would be fine. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time or resources to do this myself, not only because I don't run 2.x, but because of work and personal commitments.) -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 12:07:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA04739 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:07:30 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04733 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:07:29 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA27675; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:07:28 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504231907.MAA27675@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] related matters To: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 03:09:00 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1235 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1/time: > it appears that 'time' is not set up at teh time of device probing. > this means that the fields in the device structures that > correspond to mtime, atime and ctime are initialised to > teh epoch (Jan1 1970).. which is obviously NOT one of the > options for the correct value.. > possible work-arounds include: > a/ passing through the whole tree later and 'touching' > each device (yuk). Well, this is exactly what the chmod/own/grp script will do, isn't it ? > I would like to move these two initialisations to be BEFORE the > device initialisations.. Can anyone see what the problems are > with this.. not really... > 3/DEVICES that are never attached. > Some devices are never probed or attached in the same way that > (say) a serial port is.. An example of this is /dev/mem. > I would like to either > a/ add a special table of such devices > at the beginning of autoconf or somewhere, so that > they can have entries placed in the devfs for them.. We already have a TEXT_SET(pseudo_set,) that should be used. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 12:10:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA04770 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:15 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04764 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:14 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA27694; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:13 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504231910.MAA27694@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504231024.DAA26650@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 03:24:53 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 671 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The present scheme of allocating devices to one of a number > of spl levels and configuring them by those queues is in my opinion, broken.. > > it would seem to me that the whole situation would be simpler > if we could simply let each device set a spl elvel individually, > and only have a single list of devices (one for ISA). It has always had me wondering why >I< had to tell config about spl-levels... What we really should have is a TEXT_SET(device_probe...) and kill config... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 12:12:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA04785 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:12:34 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA04779 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:12:32 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA13001 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:46:49 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA08215; 23 Apr 95 13:41:32 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA08212; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:41:31 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504231841.NAA08212@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org (Anthony Graphics) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:41:31 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 23, 95 10:25:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 272 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > And OSF/1 costs over $1500 (or rather, the price difference for OSF/1 is > > over $1500). > Well, 1-2 User licence costs $300 or 400 to my best knowledge Hmmm. That's pretty damn funky pricing for the board then, unless they're hiding something in their price lists. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 13:05:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA05753 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:05:09 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA05742 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:05:04 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA12444 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:05:00 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA25250 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:04:59 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504232004.WAA25250@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:04:59 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221930.UAA28513@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 22, 95 08:30:29 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 369 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What do people think about a full hackers<->comp.os.freebsd gateway then? Keep the lists and the newsgroups separated. It would lower the signal/noise ratio. Mailing-lists are readable, newsgroups generally are not. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 13:11:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA05865 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:11:08 -0700 Received: from ebrps.engr.subr.edu (mdiez@[192.207.173.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA05859 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:11:05 -0700 Received: by ebrps.engr.subr.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08616; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:08:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Matthew Diez To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Slip w/ 2.0 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have to get this off of my chest, having watched Linux EAT my filesystems 8 times already, I gave up on it. So I decided to eat crow and try out FreeBSD. Well, the 2.0R was about as bad as Linux, and kept on eating my filesystems (this is a dx-2/66, 8 RAM, ISA, 420 mb IDE hd). Well, I gave it one more chance, and the 950412 snapshot works beautifully! In fact, I'll keep FreeBSD as my ONLY UN*X if I can figure out one thing: To establish SL/IP i normally have to use SLIRP(a pseudo-slip connection on the AIX machine I dial into). The only thing I've had success using is Trumpet Winsock(don't laugh). My usual connection is like this: login: /*I enter my username*/ password: /*enter the password*/ $: /*at the prompt I type 'slirp' and the manually initiate slip with winsock*/ ...... Since I've never used Kermit or anything _decent_ like it, I would like to know the easiest way to configure my system for this pseudo-slip connection. I tried Satoshi Asami's SLIP Client doc but that didn't work. Having said my piece, I bid you adieu. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 13:30:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06339 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:30:22 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06329 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:30:17 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11581; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:44:11 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA29323 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:30:51 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32619 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:40:32 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00739; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:45:43 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504221645.SAA00739@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:45:42 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 21, 95 08:10:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1072 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was just wondering, what do people think about gating hackers mail > into the newsgroups. Hackers is a fairly open forum anyway and the > new newsgroups are actually pretty good technically so it would > boost our presence if we got more traffic going through it. To MHO there is enough confusing (for the innocent bystander..) traffic on -hackers to make this a less than desirable idea. Why not point people to the mailing list when they are asking for specific info that warrants reading -hackers? > Note, I'm only talking about hackers and I'm only talking about hackers > mail going to the newsgroup and not the other way around, we don't want > all those Linux flames coming onto the mailing list. Arghh ;-) > Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 13:37:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06516 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:37:27 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06459 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:36:08 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11587; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:48:10 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA29332 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:30:55 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32623 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:40:35 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00753; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:51:47 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504221651.SAA00753@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 18:51:46 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504211817.UAA01523@knobel.GUN.de> from "Andreas Klemm" at Apr 21, 95 08:17:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1390 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I agree with Bruce. I would have agreed with Rod, but the simple fact is > > that our /dev directory is getting very large and bloated, and this will only > > get worse. Perhaps /dev/disks/* and /dev/ttys/*, etc, might be a way to > > organize things (in other words, by device class). I prefer to not minimize > > the number of levels as much as possible, while still providing some > > organization. > > If you want to group the devices, so that a listing of /dev > doesn't get too long, why not taking Sun's / SVR4's naming > scheme ? It's something like a standard in the Unix market. > > 6 /dev/sad > 34 /dev/dsk > 0 /dev/fd > 98 /dev/pts > 34 /dev/rdsk It sure makes sense to follow convention. Switching to and from different dialects is a pain we have to face more than enough. I personnally don't like the /devices idea and all the links etc that Solaris uses. Un*x was designed with compact names etc, everyone who needs self explanatory names is probably using the same OS. :-) [del ] > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 13:48:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06847 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:48:30 -0700 Received: from husc.harvard.edu (scunix5.harvard.edu [140.247.30.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06836 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:48:25 -0700 Received: from fas by husc.harvard.edu with SMTP; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:48:23 -0400 Received: by fas (5.0/16.2) id AA07607; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:47:08 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sir Ilya Tsymbal Subject: install problem with 3c509. What to do? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1559 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Sir Ilya Tsymbal Subject: Install problem To: hackers@freebsd.net Cc: Ilya Tsymbal Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have been trying to install FreeBSD but to no avail. After booting with a floppy, doing the HD stuff, then booting from HD, I get a nice screen from which I choose to install bindist, through FTP, Ethernet, with a 3COM card at 300h memory and IRQ 10, which is what the card is configured for. I am then prompted for all sortsa stuff, like IP, netmask, name, domain name and some others. when this is all done, and the program says 'fetching the files blah blah' I switch to the command output screen, and I see these error messages: NcFTP: could not get your passwd entry: (9) bad file descriptor : gethostbyname error(2): host name lookup failure NcFTP 1.8.6 (october 20..... blah blah... Error: improper distribution. No checksum script found. I know the card and the connnection works fine, I have logged in to a Novell server with it. So, if you have any idea what could be wrong or what I could do to get around th problem, I would appreciate if you tell me. I will be checking this newsgroup (CUBFM), but please also CC: your reply to me. Thanks, Ilya Tsymbal Ilya Tsymbal '96 Harvard U, Quincy House. itsymbal@husc.harvard.edu http://itsymbal.student.harvard.edu/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 14:04:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA07213 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:04:48 -0700 Received: from RosedeLima.Vir.com (RosedeLima.Vir.com [199.84.154.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07207 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:04:44 -0700 Received: from ipdyne28.vir.com by Vir.com (8.6.10/2.0) id QAA28237; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:01:11 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:01:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199504232101.QAA28237@Vir.com> X-Sender: procecorjb@vir.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: questions@FreeBSD.org From: procecorjb@Vir.com (Robert Burns) Subject: Support for Digiboards Cc: info@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How can I get my digiboard product (PC/Xe) to work with freebsd 2.0. I was told that someone was working it but I hav'nt had any luck getting answers. I know that BSDI supports some digiboards. Is there something of value in that? Someone out there pleeeeeeeeease help!!!!!!!!! Robert Burns procecorjb@vir.com mtl,ca From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 14:21:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA07554 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:21:18 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA07537 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:21:06 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05826; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:20:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA10364 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:20:53 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id XAA02403 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:17:14 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504232117.XAA02403@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:17:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504231744.KAA03064@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 23, 95 10:44:08 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1067 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The hackers list is already near 10 MB / month. I won't like to see > it further bloated. > > The -hackers mailing list reads like a newsgroup anyways, so two-way > gating will allow you to unsubscribe from -hackers and just read the > articles in the newsgroup you're interested in following. I still don't like it. Usenet is too slow to respond in a timely fashion, at least at this end of the world here. A fully two-way gateway would further bloat the list. 80 % of the questions asked in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc can easily be answered by 80 % of the user base out there. There is absolutely no need to ask this kind of stuff to the _developers_ of the system. Most of the people apparently lack a good unix introduction. The easier our install procedure will become, the larger this part of the newsgroup questions will grow. This is not to say that this is a bad thing, but IMHO, Usenet is better suited for a user <-> user support, while the mailing lists provide for a way to have user <-> developer interaction. We do need both. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 14:34:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA07926 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:34:12 -0700 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (some.schmuck.lame.delegated.to.RAIN.PSG.COM [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07919 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:34:07 -0700 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA01284; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:33:13 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199504232133.XAA01284@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: syscons probe function To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-hackers), sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:33:12 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 982 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have mailed about this 2 weeks ago but received no response, so I'm trying again:) The changes to syscons.c in the last month or so panic my machines that do not have a screen but have syscons in the kernel (they only have a serial terminal). It happens somewhere in the attach routine during a bcopy. This led me to look through the the syscons.c file. One thing that bothers me is that the probe can never fail. It assumes that there is a screen. In the attach routine it will check if it is a colour screen otherwise it reverts to monochrome. Shouldn't the probe determine if there is a screen and fail if there isn't? With the other changes in the kernel and the boot blocks one would assume that you can have a kernel with syscons compiled in and the syscons probe will just fail and go on with your console on the serial port, which does happen by the way, I do see the panic message on the serial terminal. Anyone care to comment? -- John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 15:18:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11309 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:44 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11294 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06497; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA10747 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id XAA02620 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:55:53 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504232155.XAA02620@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:55:49 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504231256.MAA02465@jsdinc.root.com> from "John S. Dyson" at Apr 23, 95 12:56:23 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 211 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > use. To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 15:18:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11302 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:42 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11293 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:33 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06501; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:24 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA10751 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:23 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id AAA02644 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:05:20 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504232205.AAA02644@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:05:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" at Apr 23, 95 06:40:06 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 918 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It turns out that it _is_ possible to set a variable, but there's a trick > to it. [Evil trickery deleted] > > If you try to just do the following: > > gdb -k > set write > exec-file /kernel > > you'll get an error, because gdb tries to open /kernel for writing, which > (for some reason) fails miserably. /kernel installed by ``make install''? I think it will have the immutable flag set then. > > Maybe we should have a "-w" flag to specify opening the core-file for > writing ? Any opinions ? After reading your description, just this question came to mind. If nobody objects: go for it. > > Could you add this tip to the kernel-debug.FAQ, J"org ? Once my CVS is back, yes. Otherwise: you've got commit privs, too. Your english is (hopefully :) better than mine -- so you can also do it yourself. I don't mind doing it however. Will keep you message in my growing work queue, as a reminder. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 15:18:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11318 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:49 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11295 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 15:18:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06505; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:25 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA10754 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:24 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id AAA02677 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:11:04 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504232211.AAA02677@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:11:02 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504231910.MAA27694@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 23, 95 12:10:13 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 215 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It has always had me wondering why >I< had to tell config about spl-levels... > ...and watch out for funny things if your idea in the config file dis- agrees with the driver's idea of which splXXX() to use. :-/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:04:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12981 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:04:31 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12975 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:04:29 -0700 Received: from jsdinc.root.com (uucp@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with UUCP id QAA09525; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:04:26 -0700 Received: (root@localhost) by localhost (8.6.11/8.6.5) id SAA00351; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:06:20 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199504231806.SAA00351@localhost> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: FreeBSD.org!hackers@implode.root.com Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:06:20 +0000 () Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232155.XAA02620@jette.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 23, 95 11:55:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1328 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > > use. > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. > I agree... I have built some large SVR3 style shared libs in the past (100-500 entry points), from code that wasn't originally meant to use them. But the SunOS style shared libs are slower to start-up and take an extra (scarce) register much of the time on an X86. On some machines like the R3000-R4400 that I use/kernel hack at work, it really does not cost as much (they pre-bind the shared libs to an address, and the R3000-R4400's have lots of registers.) In fact, you can produces SunOS style shared libs directly from the .a's on the R3000-R4400's!!!! The fact is though, we DO have what we have, and I hope that we can make our shlib's faster and more efficient. We have done lots in the mmap code to help mitigate the speed issues, and it would be nice if someone could take on the task of improving the efficiency from the ld.so viewpoint someday. Note that I wasn't saying that our shared libs are BAD, it is just that they can make it seem that the system is slower (and in some cases can make a difference in reality). But indeed the SunOS scheme is more flexible. John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:11:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13114 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:11:24 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13108 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:11:24 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA28229; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:11:05 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504232311.QAA28229@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org (Anthony Graphics) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 23, 95 10:48:40 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 912 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The scheduler comes from the 1.2.5 ? ;v) > I was pretty happy about our new Linux box(ASUS SP3G NCR53C810,Mach32 DRAM, > AST clone) until I run into the following problem: when I'm doing > mt retension > everything else dies (I mean until the command completes the system > turns into Windoze box running in the DOS compatibility session) > So I'm now stuck with the question what sucks: > NCR driver in Linux The linux system NCR driver doesn't support detatch/reattach, and a few other 'normal' niceties.. (of course this will be fixed with time.) they also have no such thing as a raw device (so I'm told) so everything always goes through the buffer cache.. (source, author of NCR driver (indirectly)) > The previous server (VLB machine assembled from the parts of unknown > origin ;-) dealt with this simple task much better (with Aha1542C) > so I think the problem lies in the driver. yes julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:30:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13469 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:30:50 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13462 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:30:49 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA28279 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:30:48 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504232330.QAA28279@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:30:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199504232117.XAA02403@jette.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 23, 95 11:17:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2531 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > The hackers list is already near 10 MB / month. I won't like to see > > it further bloated. > > > > The -hackers mailing list reads like a newsgroup anyways, so two-way > > gating will allow you to unsubscribe from -hackers and just read the > > articles in the newsgroup you're interested in following. > > I still don't like it. Usenet is too slow to respond in a timely > fashion, at least at this end of the world here. > > A fully two-way gateway would further bloat the list. 80 % of the > questions asked in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc can easily be answered > by 80 % of the user base out there. There is absolutely no need to ask > this kind of stuff to the _developers_ of the system. Most of the > people apparently lack a good unix introduction. The easier our > install procedure will become, the larger this part of the newsgroup > questions will grow. This is not to say that this is a bad thing, > but IMHO, Usenet is better suited for a user <-> user support, while > the mailing lists provide for a way to have user <-> developer > interaction. We do need both. > Ok but what aare we trying to achieve? 1/ we want people looking at the usenet groups to decide which OS to get to realise that there is a lot of support with FreeBSD. (and a lot of users) 2/ we want people who just 'check-out' the news group, to stay current to see answers to problems and not just problems It's largely a PR exercise as well as a real tech-support issue. 3/ We don't want people answering on the newsgroup if the original posting was in the mailing list.. My suggestion: 'questions' is gated to the news group by being sent to an alias 'news' all 'news' items have the following headder tacked on the FRONT of them before being gated to usenet: **************************************************************************** * This article has been forwarded to USENET from the FreeBSD-questions * * mailing list. It's appearance here on USENET is for informational * * purposes only. Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org * * send mail to majordome@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information * **************************************************************************** Note: this is a ONE WAY gate, that allows people to see the activity and makes it explicitly known what to do to respond.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:34:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13521 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:34:53 -0700 Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13511 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:34:44 -0700 From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id AAA04090; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:33:19 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Mon, 24 Apr 95 0:28:32 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Sun, 23 Apr 95 23:28:29 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Sun, 23 Apr 95 23:28:28 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:4294-950423232828-0D0B] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; Date: Sun, 23 Apr 95 23:28:28 +0000 Content-Identifier: Re(2): IP proble Message-Id: <"PC-950423232723-3424*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: amurai@spec.co.jp Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201443.XAA01201@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I have now discovered the problem that was giving me my reboots (at least the ones concerned with IIJ PPP). Having found out what made it go bang, it then became obvious that my configuration was in fact wrong - though this does point up some issues in kernel packet routing and in the IIJPPP that probably want fixing. How to make it go bang ====================== This problem applies to any point-to-point interface - I have reproduced it with tun0 and ppp0. ifconfig tun0 1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8 # normally done for you by ppp route add default 1.2.3.4 # *WRONG* should be 4.5.6.7 ping 9.8.7.6 # any address with no specific route BOOM! What appears to be going on is that the local interface address of a point-to-point link is not considered valid when routing a packet (ie. unlike the ethernet interfaces, the point-to-point interfaces don't provide a loopback facility for their own interface address). However, the test for a legal destination for a default route allows either end of a point-to-point link to be specified and so the dud default route is allowed to be entered into the routing table. When a packet then comes along and tries to use the default route, the routing logic appears to go into , , -> infinite recursion and crash. Problem 1 ========= It shouldn't be possible to add such an invalid default route. ifa_ifwithroute() in src/sys/net/route.c looks like the right place, but it is rather complicated already.... Problem 2 ========= Disaster shouldn't occur if the routing table does get screwed up (which it might otherwise do with redirects or interfaces disappearing). Probably easy enough to add some recursion control if only I could find where it was actually happening in the first place... Problem 3 ========= IIJ PPP really needs a better means of adding default routes. The reason my configuration was wrong in the first place was that my ISP assigns me a fixed IP address, but the address at their end varies according to which of their machines I dial into - so I set up the default route to my interface address (fixed) and let the address of the other end get negotiated by PPP. Manual dialling is no problem, since the script can contain "add 0 0 HISADDR", but the problem with dial-on-demand is that the default route must exist before the link is up (in order to get the packets to trigger the auto-dial), yet may need to change afterwards when the address at the far end has been negotiated. Either ppp needs to know all the routes that point at its interface (which might be network route(s) rather than a global default route), and delete/re-insert them once the address of the far end is known, or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple point-to-point links sharing the same address). I'm not sure if this problem explains all the wierd behaviour I was seeing - some of the unpredictability was caused by things like DNS caching leading to unexpected DNS traffic trying to use the defective route, but not the tcpdump/ipfw problems. Maybe they were unrelated bugs that have since been fixed (I can't now reproduce them on my test systems, and haven't yet dared upgrade my 'live' system to a more recent kernel, as it currently works if I don't touch it). Any thoughts on the above greatly appreciated. I can probably make some suitable changes to ppp to solve problem 3, but I'm not sure I understand the existing kernel routing code well enough to fix 1 and 2. Andrew. andrew.gordon@net-tel.co.uk From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:54:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13749 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:54:10 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13743 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:54:09 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA28367; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:54:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504232354.QAA28367@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: syscons probe function To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232133.XAA01284@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from "John Hay" at Apr 23, 95 11:33:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1315 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have mailed about this 2 weeks ago but received no response, so I'm trying > again:) sorry to hear this... sometime everyone assumes that someone else is going to answer.. basically if you haven't heard in 2 days, assume this has happenned. (we are planning on fixing this when we work out HOW) :) > > The changes to syscons.c in the last month or so panic my machines that do > not have a screen but have syscons in the kernel (they only have a serial > terminal). It happens somewhere in the attach routine during a bcopy. > > This led me to look through the the syscons.c file. One thing that bothers me > is that the probe can never fail. It assumes that there is a screen. In the > attach routine it will check if it is a colour screen otherwise it reverts > to monochrome. > > Shouldn't the probe determine if there is a screen and fail if there isn't? > With the other changes in the kernel and the boot blocks one would assume > that you can have a kernel with syscons compiled in and the syscons probe > will just fail and go on with your console on the serial port, which does > happen by the way, I do see the panic message on the serial terminal. I wonder HOW we could see it there is a display? do a memory test on it's ram? maybe the serial console code should disable syscons? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 16:56:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13807 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:56:46 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13800 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:56:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA00688; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:46:34 GMT Message-Id: <199504231646.QAA00688@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: Anthony Graphics cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Do you run FreeBSD? Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:48:40 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:46:32 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Anthony Graphics said: Curious, as to if you are just a linux user posting on the mailing list. One of the reasons that I joined the mailing lists was to get away from the linux postings on the *bsd lists. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 17:43:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14981 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:43:00 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA14973 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:42:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA09625; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:42:19 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA12354; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:39:20 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:39:20 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240039.KAA12354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD.org!hackers@implode.root.com, toor@jsdinc.root.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we >> > use. I think this is being fixed by slowing down the Linux libraries to support ELF :-). >> To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, >> while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. Apparently the benchmark doesn't test making the libraries :-). >efficient. We have done lots in the mmap code to help mitigate the speed >issues, and it would be nice if someone could take on the task of improving >the efficiency from the ld.so viewpoint someday. I think making libgcc static already made them 10% faster for small programs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 17:59:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA15216 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:59:23 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA15193 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:58:59 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA02825; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:00:05 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504240100.CAA02825@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:00:04 +0100 (BST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232330.QAA28279@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 04:30:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1742 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Julian Elischer who said > > 'questions' is gated to the news group by being sent to an alias > 'news' > > all 'news' items have the following headder tacked on the FRONT of them > before being gated to usenet: > > **************************************************************************** > * This article has been forwarded to USENET from the FreeBSD-questions * > * mailing list. It's appearance here on USENET is for informational * > * purposes only. Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * > * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * > * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org * > * send mail to majordome@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information * > **************************************************************************** > > Note: this is a ONE WAY gate, that allows people to see the activity > and makes it explicitly known what to do to respond.. The reply-to field can be set to the appropriate list too. That would at least provide an easy way to contact us. This is an interesting idea. It'll basically do what I'd like to see, which is provide a more accurate impression of how active this project is in the newsgroups and it also seems to solve all the drawbacks that people have so far raised. Hmm, if this was acceptable we could gate all the "general" mailing lists to the newsgroups in this way. They'd look like the linux newsgroups then :-) -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 17:43:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14988 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:43:16 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA14974 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 17:42:40 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA12354; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:39:20 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:39:20 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240039.KAA12354@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD.org!hackers@implode.root.com, toor@jsdinc.root.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we >> > use. I think this is being fixed by slowing down the Linux libraries to support ELF :-). >> To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, >> while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. Apparently the benchmark doesn't test making the libraries :-). >efficient. We have done lots in the mmap code to help mitigate the speed >issues, and it would be nice if someone could take on the task of improving >the efficiency from the ld.so viewpoint someday. I think making libgcc static already made them 10% faster for small programs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:03:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA15386 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:03:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA15378 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:03:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Sir Ilya Tsymbal cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 16:47:06 EDT." Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:03:09 -0700 Message-ID: <15376.798685389@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am then prompted for all sortsa stuff, like IP, netmask, name, domain > name and some others. And your values for one of these is simply wrong. That's your problem. Please verify particularly that the name server and gateway values are correct - only your local system guru can tell you for sure, we certainly can't from here. Jordan > when this is all done, and the program says 'fetching the files blah blah' > I switch to the command output screen, and I see these error messages: > NcFTP: could not get your passwd entry: (9) bad file descriptor > : gethostbyname error(2): host name lookup failure > NcFTP 1.8.6 (october 20..... blah blah... > Error: improper distribution. No checksum script found. > > I know the card and the connnection works fine, I have logged in to a Novell > server with it. > > So, if you have any idea what could be wrong or what I could do to get > around th problem, I would appreciate if you tell me. > I will be checking this newsgroup (CUBFM), but please also CC: your reply > to me. > > Thanks, > > Ilya Tsymbal > > > Ilya Tsymbal '96 Harvard U, Quincy House From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:09:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA15581 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:09:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA15575 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:09:29 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA12989; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:05:35 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:05:35 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240105.LAA12989@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It has always had me wondering why >I< had to tell config about spl-levels... >What we really should have is a TEXT_SET(device_probe...) and kill config... No linker magic is required or good. Drivers should register their interrupt masking requirements as late as possible, preferably not until open() completes. I looked for other things that could be config'ed better in GENERIC: isa? config at attach time or later vector config when intr is attached iosiz config at attach time after probe decides it? These things can't always (never for isa) be config'ed later because probing likely addresses is too dangerous: port, iomem These things can't always be config'ed later because probing is unreliable: irq, drq Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:13:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA15648 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:13:03 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA15641 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:12:58 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15657 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:03:27 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA16136; 23 Apr 95 19:51:08 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA16133; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:51:07 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504240051.TAA16133@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:51:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: amurai@spec.co.jp, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <"PC-950423232723-3424*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer from "Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk" at Apr 23, 95 11:28:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 249 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local > interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple > point-to-point links sharing the same address). How could you do that? Each interface needs to have a unique address. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:22:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16000 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:22:27 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA15994 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:22:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00281; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:14:51 GMT Message-Id: <199504231814.SAA00281@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 1995 03:51:52 MST." <199504231051.DAA04598@violet.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:14:49 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Jordan K. Hubbard said: > File Copy 2447.0 13.7 3149.0 17.6 3256.0 18.2 Well, file copy on Linux systems is faster because of the meta-data async behavior. Not that is safe thing to have on a system but on benchmarks it looks good. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:23:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16036 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA16029 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 23:55:49 +0200." <199504232155.XAA02620@jette.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:19 -0700 Message-ID: <16028.798686599@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > > use. > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. I don't think that was the point. We all understand that *BSD's shared lib scheme is infinitely superior to the Linux one from the _developer's_ standpoint, but it's got its own performance penalty associated with it. We decided that the trade-off was worth it, Linux didn't. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16252 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:35:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA16246 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:35:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com cc: doc@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: tun man page? Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:35:50 -0700 Message-ID: <16245.798687350@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone out there care to write a man page for the IP tunneling device driver? Unless it's hiding really well in the source tree, I can't find one. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 18:59:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16983 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:59:05 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16977 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:59:04 -0700 From: StevenR362@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA200268712; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:58:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:58:32 -0400 Message-Id: <950423215830_93699040@aol.com> To: mdiez@ebrps.engr.subr.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip w/ 2.0 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In fact, I'll keep FreeBSD as my ONLY UN*X if I can figure out one thing: >To establish SL/IP i normally have to use SLIRP(a pseudo-slip connection >on the AIX machine I dial into). The only thing I've had success using is >Trumpet Winsock(don't laugh). >My usual connection is like this: >login: /*I enter my username*/ >password: /*enter the password*/ >$: /*at the prompt I type 'slirp' and the manually initiate slip with winsock*/ ...... >Since I've never used Kermit or anything _decent_ like it, I would like >to know the easiest way to configure my system for this pseudo-slip >connection. I tried Satoshi Asami's SLIP Client doc but that didn't work. I also use slirp for telnet/ftp access. You simply use a comm package that allows you to quit without hanging up the line. I use Seyon to dial into the University HPUX system from my FreeBSD box and then login:,password:, shell prompt %slirp and then exit Seyon without hanging up the modem line. Then on my home FreeBSD system I run the following suid root shell script ( I know, I know suid script's are a "Bad Thing" Tm. ;) #!/bin/sh slattach -a -h -s 38400 /dev/cua01 ifconfig sl0 inet my.fake.ip university.ip.addr netmask 255.255.255.0 route delete default route add default university.ip.addr I also had to configure named with the following entry in the /etc/named.boot file to get outside name lookup to work. cache . root.cache forwarders university.nameserver.ip_addr slave This might not be the best solution but it works for me. :) Steve P.S. Have you gotten ftp to work with slirp and Trumpet Winsock? slirp:ftp works fine with FreeBSD but I've never been able to get it to work right with Trumpet. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 19:17:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA17396 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:17:37 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA17382 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:17:06 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA14777; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:11:50 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:11:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240211.MAA14777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, sos@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: syscons probe function Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The changes to syscons.c in the last month or so panic my machines that do >not have a screen but have syscons in the kernel (they only have a serial >terminal). It happens somewhere in the attach routine during a bcopy. >This led me to look through the the syscons.c file. One thing that bothers me >is that the probe can never fail. It assumes that there is a screen. In the >attach routine it will check if it is a colour screen otherwise it reverts >to monochrome. >Shouldn't the probe determine if there is a screen and fail if there isn't? Yes, but scinit() needs to decide before the probe is even called. I suspect that the crash is due to a missing video BIOS. syscons gropes in the video BIOS memory for `video_mode_ptr' iff the card appears to be an SVGA. The pointers are supposed to be checked with the ISMAPPED() macro. However, video mode data isn't checked. Perhaps the main thing wrong is the SVGA test: outb(crtc_addr, 7); if (inb(crtc_addr) == 7) svga = TRUE; If there is no device at crtc_addr, then the inb() will return a garbage value which will often be the value just written. The test should be at least as complicated as: outb(crtc_addr, 7); outb(harmless_port, value_other_than_7); if (inb(crtc_addr) == 7) svga = TRUE; Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 19:31:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18157 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:31:39 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18145 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:31:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00688; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:24:01 GMT Message-Id: <199504231924.TAA00688@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:23:19 MST." <16028.798686599@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:23:57 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > > > use. > > > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. > Excuse, but how many copies of static shared libraries must one keep in a linux system :) Yeah , their implementation is faster than ours in this case I rather keep our implementation of shared libraries. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 19:38:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18547 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:38:49 -0700 Received: from husc.harvard.edu (scunix5.harvard.edu [140.247.30.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18539 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:38:45 -0700 Received: from fas by husc.harvard.edu with SMTP; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:38:37 -0400 Received: by fas (5.0/16.2) id AA14913; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:37:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:37:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sir Ilya Tsymbal Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Ilya Tsymbal In-Reply-To: <15376.798685389@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII content-length: 1837 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I am then prompted for all sortsa stuff, like IP, netmask, name, domain > > name and some others. > > And your values for one of these is simply wrong. That's your > problem. Please verify particularly that the name server and gateway > values are correct - only your local system guru can tell you for > sure, we certainly can't from here. > > Jordan Hi, thanks for replying so promptly. Well, I made sure everything I type in is correct. And it was. my computer's name is itsymbal.student.harvard.edu; that's what I type in for Fully Qualified name. I know this setting is correct. my ip is 140.247.147.81; I know this is correct for sure. Next is the netmask; the default that comes up is 0xffffff00, the one I have been told I have is 255.255.255.0, which is the same as 0xffffff00, I believe. I have tried both. Any extensions to ifconfig, put them here: I am not sure about this. I didn't put any, just pressed Enter. Default gateway is my IP with a 1 at the end, 140.247.147.1 NS we are told to use is 128.103.21.15, and I checked and it's up. So, I am pretty much sure the settings are correct. Except maybe for extra flags. I tried using both primary and secondary us sources; I don't believe the FTP program ever tried to connect to either. Right after the 'fetching bin distr....' message comes up, I get a message NcFTP: could not get your password entry (9): bad file descripror. Why does it try to get a password entry? Isn't it anonymous FTP? And then I get an error: : gethostbyname error (2):hostname lookup failure. So, that's all the clues I have. I know the card is recognised during startup as a 3c5x9 at Ox300 and IRQ 10, which is what it is. Please tell me what to do, I am at the end of my wits. Ilya Tsymbal From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 19:42:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18761 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:42:24 -0700 Received: from amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (amalfi.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.99.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18748 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:42:08 -0700 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au ([144.139.63.32]) by amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA28762; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:39:56 +1000 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au [144.139.63.32]) by netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA26101; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:03:34 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:03:33 +0800 (WST) From: Terry Dwyer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? In-Reply-To: <21239.798633586@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'll try to dig up the reference - they sent something to this list awhile > back.. > > Jordan You may want to have a look at this. It is basically CMU BootP. It offers DHCP support _and_ automatic (not dynamic) address assignment. No, I have not tested it. >From the bootp mailing list... -------------------------------------------------------------------- >From A.J.Cole@cbl.leeds.ac.uk Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:20:37 +0100 From: Andrew J Cole To: A.J.Cole@cbl.leeds.ac.uk, DINHK@agvic.gov.au Cc: bootp@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: bootp-2.4.3+dhcp >Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:04:26 +0010 >From: "Kim Dinh" > >> 1) there is an updated DHCP patch set for 2.4.3 ... >> >> nimbus.anu.edu.au:/pub/tridge/samba/contributed/DHCP.patch >> >> with leasing fixed etc. > >Hi Andrew, > >Could you please tell me where can I get bootp-2.4.3 + DHCP ? I >cannot use the above patch because I do not have bootp-2.4.2 The patches apply equally well to the bootp-2.4.3 kit firewall.mc.com:/pub/bootp-2.4.3.tar.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 ftponly ftpanon 128265 Mar 27 22:58 bootp-2.4.3.tar.Z if the problem is the references to bootp-2.4.2 as well as bootp-2.4.3 in the DHCP.patch just untaring twice mv(ing) the first one to bootp-2.4.2 is probably the easiest way to apply the patch. Andrew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 19:48:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:48:36 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18970 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:48:27 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA15534; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:43:02 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:43:02 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240243.MAA15534@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hasty@star-gate.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > > > > use. > > > > > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > > > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. > > >Excuse, but how many copies of static shared libraries must one keep >in a linux system :) One. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 20:12:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA19627 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:12:37 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA19621 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:12:33 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16534 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:49:05 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18810; 23 Apr 95 21:42:15 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA18807 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:42:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:42:15 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504240242.VAA18807@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 page Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, I've put together the 1.1.5.1 stuff I've been able to locate in http://bonkers.neosoft.com/freebsd/ It'll be moving to www.neosoft.com when I get a chance. This doesn't yet include my ports or the stuff in faser.cs.olemiss.edu:/pub/FreeBSD. It also doesn't include anything already on the 1.1 CDROM. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 20:13:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA19645 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:13:06 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA19636 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:13:02 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16532 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:48:59 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18789; 23 Apr 95 21:39:14 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA18786; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:39:14 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504240239.VAA18786@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:39:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240100.CAA02825@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 24, 95 02:00:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 780 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Note: this is a ONE WAY gate, that allows people to see the activity > > and makes it explicitly known what to do to respond.. > The reply-to field can be set to the appropriate list too. That would > at least provide an easy way to contact us. That's good. That would have a similar effect to making a moderated newsgroup without the hassles. One question, though... are people going to be as frank about any real problems in the more open environment of a newsgroup? Because posting to the list will become equivalent to posting a a newsgroup. Yes, I know the lists are open, but you DO have to make a bit more of an effort to get them. And you're not going to come across them in casual browsing. Perhaps new lists would be better, to lessen the impact of this factor. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 20:38:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20077 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:38:01 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20058 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:37:55 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <200>; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:51:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) In-Reply-To: <199504240051.TAA16133@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > > or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local > > interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple > > point-to-point links sharing the same address). > > How could you do that? Each interface needs to have a unique address. No it doesn't. I've run a SLIP interface and an ethernet interface on a FreeBSD machine both having the same address. I know that it is opinion of some that this shouldn't work, but ..... Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 20:44:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20265 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:44:15 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20259 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:44:13 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <205>; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:57:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:56:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: StevenR362@aol.com cc: mdiez@ebrps.engr.subr.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip w/ 2.0 In-Reply-To: <950423215830_93699040@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995 StevenR362@aol.com wrote: > I also had to configure named with the following entry in the /etc/named.boot > file to get outside name lookup to work. > > cache . root.cache > forwarders university.nameserver.ip_addr > slave Why don't you just add the line: nameserver university.nameserver.ip_addr to your /etc/resolv.conf? This way you don't have run and config named. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:00:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20509 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:00:54 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20489 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:00:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA01230; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:57:35 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504240457.JAA01230@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Support for Digiboards To: procecorjb@Vir.com (Robert Burns) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:57:35 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232101.QAA28237@Vir.com> from "Robert Burns" at Apr 23, 95 04:01:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 597 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How can I get my digiboard product (PC/Xe) to work with freebsd 2.0. > I was told that someone was working it but I hav'nt had any luck getting > answers. I'm working on it. May be yet somebody is working too ? > I know that BSDI supports some digiboards. Is there something > of value in that? You're able to use Digiboard with BSDI. This driver has no source code with BSDI 1.1, I don't know about BSDI 2.0. Drivers in binary form are incompatiblle with FreeBSD. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:09:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20816 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:09:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA20809 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:09:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Sir Ilya Tsymbal cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 22:37:06 EDT." Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:09:57 -0700 Message-ID: <20807.798696597@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Default gateway is my IP with a 1 at the end, 140.247.147.1 > NS we are told to use is 128.103.21.15, and I checked and it's up. > > So, I am pretty much sure the settings are correct. Except maybe for > extra flags. No, that should be correct.. > I tried using both primary and secondary us sources; I don't believe the > FTP program ever tried to connect to either. No, it couldn't even look up their names.. :-( > Right after the 'fetching bin distr....' message comes up, I get a message > NcFTP: could not get your password entry (9): bad file descripror. That can be ignored - there's no passwd file yet and that's a (admittedly gratuitous) warning, not a fatal error. > And then I get an error: : gethostbyname error > (2):hostname lookup failure. There's where it fails in its attempt to look up the remote hostname. Truly, your problem is either: 1. You ethernet card isn't actually working properly. I'd drop into a shell, type `ifconfig ep0' to see if it's up, perhaps try and ping the gateway. If that works, then you know it's not the card. 2. Your gateway isn't passing your packets for some reason. This could be some sort of configuration error on their end. Try and see if you can ping any sites on the other side of the gateway and, of course, the name server itself. 3. Something is truly wrong with the name server, though this is the least likely scenario. Good luck! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:11:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20870 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:11:44 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20864 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:11:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00477; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:03:03 GMT Message-Id: <199504232103.VAA00477@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: Bruce Evans cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:43:02 +1000." <199504240243.MAA15534@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:02:58 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Bruce Evans said: > > > > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > > > > > use. > > > > > > > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > > > > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. > > > > > >Excuse, but how many copies of static shared libraries must one keep > >in a linux system :) > > One. > > Bruce I don't think so.... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:13:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20900 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:13:35 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA20894 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:13:31 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA17165 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:55:54 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA20419; 23 Apr 95 22:54:57 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA20416; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:54:57 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504240354.WAA20416@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:54:57 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 23, 95 08:50:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 604 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local > > > interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple > > > point-to-point links sharing the same address). > > How could you do that? Each interface needs to have a unique address. > No it doesn't. I've run a SLIP interface and an ethernet interface on > a FreeBSD machine both having the same address. I know that it is > opinion of some that this shouldn't work, but ..... Well, I think it kinda violates TCP/IP requirements, yes. I guess it's workable, but then you lose the ability to route to each address. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:14:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20939 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:14:42 -0700 Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20933 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:14:41 -0700 Received: from hpautow.aus.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.15/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA228666873; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:14:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199504240414.AA228666873@hp.com> Received: by hpautow.aus.hp.com (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA10448; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:13:51 +1000 From: M C Wong Subject: Re: Slip w/ 2.0 To: StevenR362@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:13:50 EST Cc: mdiez@ebrps.engr.subr.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <950423215830_93699040@aol.com>; from "StevenR362@aol.com" at Apr 23, 95 9:58 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14.c] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > #!/bin/sh > slattach -a -h -s 38400 /dev/cua01 > ifconfig sl0 inet my.fake.ip university.ip.addr netmask 255.255.255.0 > route delete default > route add default university.ip.addr ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ correct me if I am wrong, isn't that the default gw should be a machine on your end, ie my.fake.ip, even though my.fake.ip and university.ip.addr will have the same IP network address ? The other observation, with ifconfig on slX (for serial interface X), if you leave out the destination IP address, it will show that : my.fake.ip ---> 0.0.0.0 on next ifconfig slX command, and it still DOES talk to the other end, in which case, you MUST set your default route to the IP address of your end, since the other end is not necessarily known. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:27:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21210 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:27:22 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21202 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:27:16 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <199>; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:40:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:38:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) In-Reply-To: <199504240354.WAA20416@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > Well, I think it kinda violates TCP/IP requirements, yes. I guess it's > workable, but then you lose the ability to route to each address. The difficulty is not making the routing work, which it certainly does, but how do you *specify* additional routes which is rather annoying. I don't really understand in what way this "violates TCP/IP" requirements. All modern routers that I've used don't make this restriction, which is a good thing when you have 30 network interfaces. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 21:46:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21848 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:46:37 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21831 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:46:26 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA18753; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:45:55 +1000 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:45:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504240445.OAA18753@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hasty@star-gate.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Excuse, but how many copies of static shared libraries must one keep > > >in a linux system :) > > > > One. > > > > Bruce > >I don't think so.... Linux libraries are backwards compatible if the major number is the same, except for early versions from more than 2 or 3 years ago. The major number has been stable for 1 or 2 years (much longer than in FreeBSD). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 22:13:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22376 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:13:32 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22346 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:13:28 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id BAA24339; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:13:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:13:19 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504240513.BAA24339@genesis.tiac.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: floppy tape formatting Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Good news. I've got floppy tape formatting working on my 1.1.5.1 system. (Bye bye DOS!) I'm going to be putting together a 2.0-current patch set over the next couple of days but before I submit it I'd like to get a few testers to check it out. If you've got some time (and maybe an unformatted tape :-)) send me a message with the following information and I'll send you the 2.x patches: Your email address: Tape drive manufacturer and model: QIC-40 or QIC-80: Tape length(s) you use: (Need the info so I can try and get a variety of hardware.) Thanks! - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 22:49:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23113 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:49:08 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23106 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:49:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01089 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:41:37 GMT Message-Id: <199504232241.WAA01089@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Jave source available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:41:35 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well guys go for it :) Amancio ------- Forwarded Message Received: from wicked.neato.org ([198.70.96.1]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA13311 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:37:51 -0701 Received: from java.sun.com ([198.70.96.253]) by wicked.neato.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA18537; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:28:21 -0700 Received: by java.sun.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02875; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:24:16 -0700 Received: by java.sun.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02866; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:24:13 -0700 Message-Id: <9504240518.AA26434@gladys.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:15:00 -0700 From: lindholm@scndprsn.Eng.Sun.COM (Tim Lindholm) To: java-announce@java.Eng.Sun.COM, java-porting@java.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: SPARC/Solaris Alpha 2 Sources Released Sender: owner-java-porting@java.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe' to java-porting-request@java.sun.com The Alpha2 Source Release of Java(tm) and HotJava(tm) from Sun Microsystems is now available for downloading. The Alpha2 source release contains the full sources for the Alpha2 binary release for Sun Solaris 2.3 and 2.4 SPARC-based machines. It is being made available for people to inspect, rebuild or port. Do not download the source release if you expect that it will immediately run on any configuration besides SPARC/Solaris 2.X. To determine whether the Alpha2 Source Release is for you, start by reading http://java.sun.com/source.html. This will be your guide to downloading the release. In particular, be sure to read the source release license, and do not download the release if you object to the terms of that license. Ports are currently under way within our group for Windows95/Windows NT, MacOS and Solaris x86. A port of Java or HotJava is a non-trivial task. People seriously interested in porting Java and HotJava are strongly encouraged to contact us directly for guidance. The java- porting mailing list is also intended to support porting efforts. To subscribe to this mailing list, see http://java.sun.com/mail.html There are currently no mirror sites for the source release. If some become available, they will be announced here. Specific problems with ftp downloading or with the server machine should be addressed to src-admin@java.sun.com. The source release mechanism is still being debugged. If you have problems with it please report them to src-admin@java.sun.com. - -- Tim - - Note to Sun employees: this is an EXTERNAL mailing list! Info: send 'help' to java-porting-request@java.sun.com ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 22:51:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23144 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:51:39 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23138 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:51:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01099 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:44:07 GMT Message-Id: <199504232244.WAA01099@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 3d again... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:44:05 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A little while ago , I posted on Lockheed's fantastic 3d chip well this is what some folks are planning to do with :) Happy Reading, Amancio ------------ From: info7@well.sf.ca.us (Randy Clark) Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds Subject: ANNOUNCE: 3 million polygons/sec on PC VR rides. Date: 21 Apr 1995 15:40:54 GMT Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA Message-ID: <3n8jm6$rsf@nntp1.u.washington.edu> Press Release: Contact: Jim Bahringer, RPI Entertainment,(415) 495-5671, FAX (415) 512-1131. Email: FASTAR99@AOL.COM RPI ENTERTAINMENT SELECTS LOCKHEED MARTIN GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGY TO IMPLEMENT FASTEST, PROPRIETARY, PHOTOREAL PC VIRTUAL REALITY RIDE SYSTEM. San Francisco, CA -- April 20 -- The frustration with the realities of (virtual reality( is that, today, the visuals are so poor that few are compelled to use it. RPI Entertainment plans to change all that as they initiate production of an amazing graphics system for their location based entertainment units. The system, finally, can make VR and simulation rides look like the crisp special-effects scenes portrayed in science-fiction films. RPI Entertainment(TM) has selected Lockheed Martin(s Real3D(TM) real-time graphics technology as the foundation for a proprietary ultra-fast, photo-real-time image-generation graphics (power card(. Production of the board has begun. The RPI systems will be capable of producing three million polygons per second using only a single PC motherboard. Compared to contemporary standards, this is an amazing capability, not only because of the speed but, also, the ability to produce a relatively massive array of texture maps, or photographic images in real-time. RPI systems will also overlay pre-produced video and film sequences for true interactive-movie experiences. This will reduce the cost of simulation and ride systems by over $100,000.00, creating pricepoints for complete rides under $20,000.00 for photo-perfect experiences. RPI plans to put a VR or simulation ride in every family entertainment center, mall, museum and public facility RPI is currently shipping The Cyberchair(. The Cyberchairs are upgradeable and offer a variety of software experiences and shared user action via telephone interface. You sit in the high-tech flight seat, don virtual reality glasses, grab the industrial grade joysticks and blast off to the edge of a digital galaxy or to a telephonic flight game with a friend in France. RPI Entertainment is a US corporation with 20 years experience in 100,000 person+ media project design and production. RPI Entertainment specializes in state-of-the-art turn-key Arcade, Theater, Family entertainment center and Theme park ride and presentation projects. Advantages of the RPI systems include: higher fidelity, one to one perspective viewing, no distractions from audience members and theater structure, the world's best 3D stereoscopic media and a better emotional and dramatic effect. RPI offers motion chairs, pods, stand-up units, flying rigs, cockpits and other build-to-order simulation rides and entertainmnent devices. RPI has patent protected immersive chambers and its ride systems. Patents issued, pending and continuations, continuations-in-part and third party licenses support the RPI group of companies. ### [MODERATOR'S NOTE: Commercial postings are offered on this newsgroup as a public service. Their appearance here does not indicate endorsement by the moderators or by the USENET or its administrators.] From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 22:53:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23172 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:53:05 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23162 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:52:54 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA21961; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:52:50 +0800 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:52:50 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-Reply-To: <199504232330.QAA28279@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > > 'questions' is gated to the news group by being sent to an alias > 'news' > > all 'news' items have the following headder tacked on the FRONT of them > before being gated to usenet: > > **************************************************************************** > * This article has been forwarded to USENET from the FreeBSD-questions * > * mailing list. It's appearance here on USENET is for informational * > * purposes only. Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * > * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * > * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org * > * send mail to majordome@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information * ^^^^^^^^^(majordomo) > **************************************************************************** Eek! Do you really want to add another ~600 bytes to every message gated from freebsd-questions to the newsgroup? Wouldn't a weekly FAQ with instructions on joining the mailing lists be enough? Or at least shorten the banner to something like: [ Reposted from the FreeBSD-questions mailing list! To subscribe to this ] [ list, send mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with "help" in message body. ] ... and set Reply-To: to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org like someone else mentioned. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 22:59:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23277 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:59:15 -0700 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23269 ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:59:03 -0700 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA02863; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:55:49 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199504240555.HAA02863@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: syscons probe function To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:55:48 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, sos@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240211.MAA14777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 24, 95 12:11:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1992 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >The changes to syscons.c in the last month or so panic my machines that do > >not have a screen but have syscons in the kernel (they only have a serial > >terminal). It happens somewhere in the attach routine during a bcopy. > > >This led me to look through the the syscons.c file. One thing that bothers me > >is that the probe can never fail. It assumes that there is a screen. In the > >attach routine it will check if it is a colour screen otherwise it reverts > >to monochrome. > > >Shouldn't the probe determine if there is a screen and fail if there isn't? > > Yes, but scinit() needs to decide before the probe is even called. > Well just to get my machines working with a new kernel and not exclude syscons I made the following change to the syscons probe routine. It just fail the probe if the keyboard isn't there. NOTE that I don't think this is the right or best way I just wanted to get going again. *** syscons.c.v2.10.org Wed Apr 19 21:09:18 1995 --- syscons.c Wed Apr 19 21:14:23 1995 *************** *** 173,181 **** } } gotres: ! if (!retries) printf("scprobe: keyboard won't accept RESET command\n"); ! else { gotack: DELAY(10); while ((inb(KB_STAT) & KB_BUF_FULL) == 0) DELAY(10); --- 173,182 ---- } } gotres: ! if (!retries) { printf("scprobe: keyboard won't accept RESET command\n"); ! return 0; ! } else { gotack: DELAY(10); while ((inb(KB_STAT) & KB_BUF_FULL) == 0) DELAY(10); *************** *** 183,190 **** val = inb(KB_DATA); if (val == KB_ACK) goto gotack; ! if (val != KB_RESET_DONE) printf("scprobe: keyboard RESET failed %02x\n", val); } #ifdef XT_KEYBOARD kbd_wait(); --- 184,193 ---- val = inb(KB_DATA); if (val == KB_ACK) goto gotack; ! if (val != KB_RESET_DONE) { printf("scprobe: keyboard RESET failed %02x\n", val); + return 0; + } } #ifdef XT_KEYBOARD kbd_wait(); -- John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 23:04:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA23466 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:04:58 -0700 Received: from husc7.harvard.edu (husc7.harvard.edu [140.247.30.37]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA23460 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:04:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:01:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Sir Ilya Tsymbal Reply-To: Sir Ilya Tsymbal Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20807.798696597@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > And then I get an error: : gethostbyname error > > (2):hostname lookup failure. > > There's where it fails in its attempt to look up the remote hostname. > > Truly, your problem is either: > > 1. You ethernet card isn't actually working properly. I'd drop into a shell, > type `ifconfig ep0' to see if it's up, perhaps try and ping the gateway. > If that works, then you know it's not the card. I did that. It appears to work properly. I got: ep0: flags=863 mtu 1500 inet 140.247.147.81 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 140.247.147.255 ether 00:20:af:11:98 these settings are all correct for my card - all the numbers I got from local netadmin for my computer. So I assume it's not the card itself that is causing the problem. > 2. Your gateway isn't passing your packets for some reason. This could > be some sort of configuration error on their end. Try and see if you > can ping any sites on the other side of the gateway and, of course, the > name server itself. > Well, here is what happens: I try ping, and I get: Ping: wrote , 64 chars, ret=-1 Ping: sendto: no route to host Then at the end, packet loss = 100%. I tried to ping the gateway from another machine, and it reports it up. I tried pinging my machine from even the same subnet and it's down. So, it seems I can't even get to the gateway itself... Hmmm.. Do you have any ideas? > 3. Something is truly wrong with the name server, though this is the least > likely scenario. I don't think that is the problem. I ping'ed it and it's up, I also tried another Name server, same problem. ( I pinged it from another machine) Thanks again, Ilya Tsymbal From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 23:52:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24127 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:52:15 -0700 Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA24121 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:52:13 -0700 Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R2.01/dg-rtp-v02) id AA09053; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:51:37 -0400 Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA09201; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:22:45 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA00879; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:38:14 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:38:14 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199504232338.TAA00879@lakes> To: ref.tfs.com!julian@dg-rtp.dg.com, ponds!rivers Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > This is a 'feature' of the driver > once the door has been openned, the drive reports to the driver, that > there has been user intervention of some kind.. > specifically a 'Unit attention' erro is reported to the driver.. > > this tells the driver that the cdrom MAY HAVE BEEN CHANGED!. > > The driver therefore aborts ALL operations until ALL USERS have closed the > device. (including the 'mount' 'user' ). > > When the last user has closed the device, operations on the cdrom are > re-enabled.. > > I'm glad to see you are getting this as it proves that the code in > question is working, and it is vitally important to devices > with read-write removable media that it does.... > consider.. > async write to drive... > {change media} > sync > (OUCH!) > > the same problem exists for cdoms but it doesn't corrupt the media, > just totally screws the internal cached copy of the filesystem nodes > (i.e if it assumed that the same cdrom was in but wasn't.....) > Yes, that entirely makes sense. I was considering the situation myself; what else could you do given that the "disk" can be jerked out from under you? - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 23 23:57:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24242 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:57:46 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24236 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:57:45 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA29984; Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:55:31 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504240655.XAA29984@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 24, 95 01:52:50 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1992 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > all 'news' items have the following headder tacked on the FRONT of them > > before being gated to usenet: > > > > **************************************************************************** > > * This article has been forwarded to USENET from the FreeBSD-questions * > > * mailing list. It's appearance here on USENET is for informational * > > * purposes only. Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * > > * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * > > * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org * > > * send mail to majordome@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information * > ^^^^^^^^^(majordomo) > > **************************************************************************** > > Eek! Do you really want to add another ~600 bytes to every > message gated from freebsd-questions to the newsgroup? Wouldn't a > weekly FAQ with instructions on joining the mailing lists be enough? > Or at least shorten the banner to something like: well, YES if you must know... it can't be missed, and all those thiings need to be said.. I'd settle for: ****** * forwarded from the FreeBSD-questions mailing list. * Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org (answers or followups) * send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information ****** I think your version is TOO brief.. part of the effect of the banner is to reinforce the idea that there is more going on than just the USENET group shows. > > [ Reposted from the FreeBSD-questions mailing list! To subscribe to this ] > [ list, send mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with "help" in message body. ] > > ... and set Reply-To: to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org like someone > else mentioned. If we are sure that works for all NEWS software.... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 00:05:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24387 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:05:43 -0700 Received: from dkuug.dk (dkuug.dk [193.88.44.89]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24379 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:05:34 -0700 From: uucp@kmd-ac.dk Received: from kmd-ac.dk by dkuug.dk with UUCP id AA15696 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for freebsd.org!hackers); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:05:20 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:05:20 +0200 Message-Id: <199504240705.AA15696@dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: syscons probe function Apparently-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From sos Mon Apr 24 09:06:34 +0200 1995 remote from FreeBSD.org Received: from FreeBSD.org by kmd-ac.dk; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:01 GMT Received: (sos@localhost) by baltazar (8.6.9/8.6.5) id JAA09287; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:06:35 +0200 Message-Id: <199504240706.JAA09287@baltazar> To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:06:34 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, sos@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232133.XAA01284@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from "John Hay" at Apr 23, 95 11:33:12 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org (So/ren Schmidt) Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1415 In reply to John Hay who wrote: > > I have mailed about this 2 weeks ago but received no response, so I'm trying > again:) Oops, that shouldn't have happend.. > The changes to syscons.c in the last month or so panic my machines that do > not have a screen but have syscons in the kernel (they only have a serial > terminal). It happens somewhere in the attach routine during a bcopy. > > This led me to look through the the syscons.c file. One thing that bothers me > is that the probe can never fail. It assumes that there is a screen. In the > attach routine it will check if it is a colour screen otherwise it reverts > to monochrome. Yep, right, the probe/attach thing is just for "fun", the asume you have the hardware there, it is easy to fix though... > Shouldn't the probe determine if there is a screen and fail if there isn't? > With the other changes in the kernel and the boot blocks one would assume > that you can have a kernel with syscons compiled in and the syscons probe > will just fail and go on with your console on the serial port, which does > happen by the way, I do see the panic message on the serial terminal. > > Anyone care to comment? Did so, I'll look at it RSN... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 00:24:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24687 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:24:10 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24678 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:24:01 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04240; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA13225; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:34 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA03513; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:04:20 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504240704.JAA03513@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:04:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240051.TAA16133@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 23, 95 07:51:07 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 459 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local > > interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple > > point-to-point links sharing the same address). > > How could you do that? Each interface needs to have a unique address. > With the exception that only the remote side of point-to-point links is meaningful for this restriction. You can easily share the local address for 20 plugged-in SLIP or PPP connections. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 00:24:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24703 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:24:22 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24676 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:24:00 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04246; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA13231 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA03600 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:19:32 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504240719.JAA03600@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Slip w/ 2.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:19:29 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 23, 95 08:56:52 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 945 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > cache . root.cache > > forwarders university.nameserver.ip_addr > > slave > > Why don't you just add the line: > > nameserver university.nameserver.ip_addr > > > to your /etc/resolv.conf? This way you don't have run and config named. But this is different. A caching nameserver has its own merits. It avoids the ask-back at the forwarder for each address you need. This really makes a difference if the SLIP line is e.g. saturated by a fat ftp transfer, and the DNS packets would have to sit in the queue until their time has come. With a caching server, while almost no effort is needed to configure it, it will quickly remember the cached addresses, so the backoff will only happen on the first lookup of an address. Alternatively, lowering the MTU will make the line responding ``more quickly'', but at the cost of added overhead. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 00:24:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24696 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:24:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24673 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:23:55 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04244; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA13228 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:23:35 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA03585 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:14:39 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504240714.JAA03585@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:14:36 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240354.WAA20416@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 23, 95 10:54:57 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 951 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [2 p-p-p interface with identical addresses] > > No it doesn't. I've run a SLIP interface and an ethernet interface on > > a FreeBSD machine both having the same address. I know that it is > > opinion of some that this shouldn't work, but ..... > > Well, I think it kinda violates TCP/IP requirements, yes. I guess it's > workable, but then you lose the ability to route to each address. > Use the remote address as routing distinction. e.g.: 192.168.1.1 <---- SLIP ----> 111.222.333.444 gate to world 192.168.1.1 <--------------> 192.168.1.* local ether route add default 111.222.333.444 will do the trick: all packets to 192.168.1.* will pass thru the ether interface, packets for the wide world will be sent out of the SLIP i/f. The host route to 111.222.333.444 is implicit in BSD as soon as the interface is up (it is _not_ implicit in Linux, as i had to find now :). You only have to deal with network routes yourself. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 00:43:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25166 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:43:12 -0700 Received: from remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.82.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA25157 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:43:10 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id QAA05850; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:43:03 +0900 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:43:03 +0900 Message-Id: <199504240743.QAA05850@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: itsymbal@fas.harvard.edu Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:01:23 -0400 (EDT). From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article itsymbal@fas.harvard.edu writes: >> I did that. It appears to work properly. I got: >> ep0: flags=863 mtu 1500 >> inet 140.247.147.81 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 140.247.147.255 >> ether 00:20:af:11:98 >> >> these settings are all correct for my card - all the numbers I got from >> local netadmin for my computer. >> So I assume it's not the card itself that is causing the problem. I think you must specify some link? options to ifconfig. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:21:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA26282 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:21:22 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26231 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:20:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:19:00 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do you run FreeBSD? Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? In-Reply-To: <199504231646.QAA00688@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:46:32 +0000 > From: Amancio Hasty > To: Anthony Graphics > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Do you run FreeBSD? Re: Case for FreeBSD presentation docs? > > >>> Anthony Graphics said: > > Curious, as to if you are just a linux user posting on the > mailing list. One of the reasons that I joined the mailing lists > was to get away from the linux postings on the *bsd lists. Well I run both systems at the site: some things works better in BSD while others are in Linux. And some features are absent in either Linux or BSD ;-) Hope the people here ain't offended too much :^) AGL > > Tnks, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:25:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA26487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:25:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26480 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:25:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Jave source available In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 22:41:35 -0000." <199504232241.WAA01089@star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:25:04 -0700 Message-ID: <26479.798711904@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well guys go for it :) > > Amancio I've submitted a request for a source license. Thanks for the pointer, Amancio! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:30:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA26715 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:30:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26708 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:30:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Sir Ilya Tsymbal cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 02:01:23 EDT." Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <26707.798712224@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, it seems I can't even get to the gateway itself... Hmmm.. > > Do you have any ideas? Indeed - hmmmmm! :-) No idea. Bad netmask? It's really not your actual gateway? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:37:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA26882 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:37:57 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA26811 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:34:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:32:48 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Is P5 is faster than DX4 100 under FreeBSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Linux FAQ (or was it HOWTO?) states that bogomips are measured as DX2/DX4 Mhz * 0.5 P5 Mhz * 0.39 The question is: whether the same thing applies in FreeBSD? How P5 60 Mhz compares with 486 DX4 100 Mhz (just a rough pointer would be nice). I mean just raw cpu integer performance. AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:45:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27111 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:45:19 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27105 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:45:15 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA05645; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:42:20 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504240842.BAA05645@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: itsymbal@fas.harvard.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <26707.798712224@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 01:30:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 653 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > So, it seems I can't even get to the gateway itself... Hmmm.. > > > > Do you have any ideas? > > Indeed - hmmmmm! :-) > > No idea. Bad netmask? It's really not your actual gateway? :-) What type of cable connection does he have to his ep0 3com board? And does he need a -link0 or what ever it is now option to select the alternate cable type. This is a FAQ!! And saw one other person reply with that as a possible problem, but have not seen any results from checking this out :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:52:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27403 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:52:42 -0700 Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27387 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:52:30 -0700 Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA22267; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:24:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199504220824.KAA22267@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: wchar_t definition... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:45:34 +0200." <199504211445.QAA21595@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:24:11 +0200 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Salut, In the message wchar_t definition..., Luigi Rizzo wrote : >This was on snap950322 with XFree86-3.1. > >While compiling the stock xdvi (xdvk-1.18f) I got the following errors: > >In file included from xdvi.h:22, > from config.h:43, > from xdvi.c:86: >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h:74: conflicting types for `wchar_t' >/usr/include/stdlib.h:50: previous declaration of `wchar_t' Try with -DNOFOIL_X_WCHAR_T or -DNO_FOIL_X_WCHAR_T or even -DFOIL_X_WCHAR_T (didn't remember the correct one for FreeBSD) >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xos.h:107: conflicting types for `sys_errlist' remove #include in Xdvi sources -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 01:54:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27483 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:54:02 -0700 Received: from caern.protocorp.com ([198.147.97.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27474 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:53:58 -0700 Received: from caern.leonardo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by caern.protocorp.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA00857; Fri, 31 Mar 1995 01:53:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199503310953.BAA00857@caern.protocorp.com> To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: floppy tape formatting In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:13:19 EDT." <199504240513.BAA24339@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 01:53:22 -0800 From: Charlie & Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Boy am I ready. My tape drive, though, may or may not be working correctly at the moment. Put me on as a tester but let me call Colorado Tape in the morning and see what they have to say. I sure haven't been having a whole lot of luck dumping the system and checking the integrity of the resulting tapes. My particulars: obrien@leonardo.net Colorado 350 internal drive 425 ft. QIC-80 tapes (3M 2120XL) Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 02:04:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA27772 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:04:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA27761 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:04:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Hot Java.. Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:03:57 -0700 Message-ID: <27759.798714237@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking over the sources here a little (I shouldn't, but I couldn't help myself) and it looks like it's going to be a bit of a bear. It uses threads pretty aggressively, manipulating thread stack spaces and juggling their internal priorities in addition to all the usual create/destroy/block thread ops. I haven't looked at pthreads lately, but I'd say it'll have to be fairly capable to deal with the demands made on it by Hot Java. I also don't know whether or not Java assumes your libc to be thread safe, but I rather expect that it does. Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the porting of this to FreeBSD? I think it's going to be a post-2.1 project, and something of a long one at that. It would make sense to combine effort. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 02:12:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA28179 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:12:16 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA28166 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:12:05 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA00930; Mon, 24 Apr 95 02:06:07 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s3K2P-0005PMC; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:02 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, joerg_wunsch%uriah.heep.sax.de@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from J Wunsch of Mon, 24 Apr 95 00:05:17 O. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 09:02:36 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J"org Wunsch writes: >> you'll get an error, because gdb tries to open /kernel for writing, which >> (for some reason) fails miserably. > > /kernel installed by ``make install''? I think it will have the > immutable flag set then. this occurred to me after I sent out the mail. >> >> Maybe we should have a "-w" flag to specify opening the core-file for >> writing ? Any opinions ? > > After reading your description, just this question came to mind. If > nobody objects: go for it. OK, this is a trivial change. I'll do it, if no one objects. >> >> Could you add this tip to the kernel-debug.FAQ, J"org ? > > Once my CVS is back, yes. Otherwise: you've got commit privs, too. Ah, but I >do not< have commit privs (yet) ! Otherwise, I wouldn't have asked you to do it. > I don't mind doing it however. Will keep you message in my growing > work queue, as a reminder. OK, thanks. Could be that I get the change done before you get around to putting the "evil trickery" into the FAQ. But then, a reference to the "-w" flag should probably be added to it. > Jvrg Using the Umlauts on your keyboard again, eh ? :-) Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 02:19:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA28423 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:19:37 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA28409 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:19:18 -0700 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (sys@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.7]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA11327; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:18:57 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA09543; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:18:55 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:18:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199504240918.LAA09543@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: Paul Richards Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Subject: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-Reply-To: <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> References: <199504211910.UAA11985@isl.cf.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: >I was just wondering, what do people think about gating hackers mail >into the newsgroups. Hackers is a fairly open forum anyway and the >new newsgroups are actually pretty good technically so it would >boost our presence if we got more traffic going through it. > >Note, I'm only talking about hackers and I'm only talking about hackers >mail going to the newsgroup and not the other way around, we don't want >all those Linux flames coming onto the mailing list. $ egrep '^muc\..*freebsd' ~/.newsrc muc.lists.freebsd.announce: muc.lists.freebsd.bugs:1-115 muc.lists.freebsd.current!1-74 muc.lists.freebsd.hackers:1-17,19-155 muc.lists.freebsd.questions:1-181 $ egrep '^muc\..*freebsd' /usr/news/lib/active muc.lists.freebsd.hackers 0000000329 0000000001 m muc.lists.freebsd.current 0000000218 0000000001 m muc.lists.freebsd.questions 0000000181 0000000001 m muc.lists.freebsd.bugs 0000000115 0000000001 m muc.lists.freebsd.announce 0000000000 0000000001 m muc.* are local newsgroups for München/Bayern (Munich/Mnichov) Gruß Wolfram -- http://hyperg.cs.tu-berlin.de/C~wosch From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 03:10:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29296 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:10:17 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29290 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:10:15 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id MAA17078 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:10:10 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id MAA29906 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:10:10 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504241010.MAA29906@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:10:09 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504232155.XAA02620@jette.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 23, 95 11:55:49 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 471 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. That will change with the introduction of the ELF format for binaries. They will have the same ease of use and it seems not that slower either from the report I got from my Linux's friends. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 03:23:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29493 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:23:36 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29486 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:23:31 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id MAA17228 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:23:27 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id MAA29960 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:23:26 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504241023.MAA29960@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:23:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240100.CAA02825@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 24, 95 02:00:04 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 666 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The reply-to field can be set to the appropriate list too. That would > at least provide an easy way to contact us. To do it fully, you'll need to put the Followup-To: poster header line to force people to answer by mail. > Hmm, if this was acceptable we could gate all the "general" mailing lists > to the newsgroups in this way. They'd look like the linux newsgroups then :-) That's a thing I don't want to see. Many Linux friends I know have stopped reading the *linux newsgroups because of the S/N ratio. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 03:47:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA29864 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:47:00 -0700 Received: from news.rim.or.jp (news.rim.or.jp [202.255.181.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA29857 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:45:37 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.rim.or.jp (8.6.10+2.4W/3.3W-rim1.0) with UUCP id TAA08997; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:43:15 +0900 Received: (from sa2c@localhost) by us.and.or.jp (8.6.11/3.3W8) id TAA01684; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:42:03 +0900 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:42:03 +0900 From: NIIMI Satoshi Message-Id: <199504241042.TAA01684@us.and.or.jp> To: Brian Tao Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Brian Tao's message of Sun, 23 Apr 1995 14:07:09 +0800 (CST) Subject: Re: DHCP on FreeBSD (was Re: yeah, what is the deal with this?) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I saw an announcement of WIDE DHCP in fj.* newsgroup a few days ago, but it didn't support FreeBSD box. I think someone (Mr. Murai?) is working to port it for FreeBSD 2.x. -- NIIMI Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 04:38:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA01730 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:38:50 -0700 Received: from wn1.sci.kun.nl (wn1.sci.kun.nl [131.174.8.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA01720 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:38:41 -0700 Received: from studs.sci.kun.nl by wn1.sci.kun.nl via studs.sci.kun.nl [131.174.124.5] with ESMTP id NAA21551 (8.6.10/2.9); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:38:36 +0200 From: William Wanders Received: by studs.sci.kun.nl id NAA07287 (8.6.10/2.1); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:38:34 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:38:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199504241138.NAA07287@studs.sci.kun.nl> To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199504240513.BAA24339@genesis.tiac.net> (steve2@genesis.tiac.net) Subject: Re: floppy tape formatting Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:13:19 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Good news. I've got floppy tape formatting working on my 1.1.5.1 system. (Bye bye DOS!) I'm going to be putting together a 2.0-current patch set over the next couple of days but before I submit it I'd like to get a few testers to check it out. If you've got some time (and maybe an unformatted tape :-)) send me a message with the following information and I'll send you the 2.x patches: Thats wonderfull !!! And yes i can make some time free to test it :-) Your email address: wwanders@sci.kun.nl Tape drive manufacturer and model: IOMega 420 MB QIC-40 or QIC-80: QIC-40 (read only) QIC-80 & QIC-WIDE Tape length(s) you use: 307.5ft and 400ft (WIDE) (Need the info so I can try and get a variety of hardware.) Thanks! - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net Question1:I'm trying to modify ft in such a way that i can use more backups on a single tape. Currently i'm using the volume table for that. But i currently dont have the standards at hand (letter to QIC standards is on the mail) is the volumetable a correct segment only ? like the headers ? Question2:Would it be a good idea to incorperate volumetables also in the driver? Eg commands like 'mt fsf 2' could easily be done with the data inside the volumetable. William Wanders (wwanders@sci.kun.nl) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 05:02:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA02684 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:02:05 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA02677 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:02:02 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA07712; Mon, 24 Apr 95 04:57:54 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s3Lyk-0005PMC; Mon, 24 Apr 95 13:06 MSZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of Mon, 24 Apr 95 02:03:57 MST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:06:58 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jkh writes: > I'm looking over the sources here a little where'd you put 'em ? I didn't see a pointer to them in the mail from Amancio. Oops, according to the WEB page, I guess you can't re-distribute them. > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > porting of this to FreeBSD? Yes. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 05:44:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA03655 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:44:56 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA03649 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:44:50 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA20596 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:38:41 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02413; 24 Apr 95 07:37:59 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA02410; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:37:58 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504241237.HAA02410@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. To: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:37:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, ponds!rivers@ucbvax.berkeley.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504232338.TAA00879@lakes> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Apr 23, 95 07:38:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 484 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, that entirely makes sense. I was considering the situation myself; > what else could you do given that the "disk" can be jerked out from under > you? If there is a guaranteed unique ID you can get from the CDROM, you can use that to maintain multiple mount structures in memory, and prompt the user for the appropriate disc when necessary. If the prompt is vectored through a program (and it would pretty much have to be), you could use that to control a jukebox as well. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 07:14:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA05652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:14:12 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05638 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:14:07 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id IAA04025; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:18:08 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:18:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504241418.IAA04025@trout.sri.MT.net> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-Reply-To: <199504241010.MAA29906@blaise.ibp.fr> References: <199504232155.XAA02620@jette.heep.sax.de> <199504241010.MAA29906@blaise.ibp.fr> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, > > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. > > That will change with the introduction of the ELF format for binaries. > They will have the same ease of use and it seems not that slower either from > the report I got from my Linux's friends. Actually, folks I have talked to have given me the exact opposite report. And some people on the newsgroups have complained about the switch to ELF binaries since they are significantly slower than the original shlib implementation. I think our shlib implementatio is still probably slower than the ELF shlib stuff, but I suspect it's not much anymore. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 07:20:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA05859 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:20:07 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05850 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:20:02 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA06555; Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:19:24 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA02783; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:19:23 -0400 Message-Id: <9504241419.AA02783@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: wchar_t definition... In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:24:11 +0200. <199504220824.KAA22267@lirmm.lirmm.fr> Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:19:23 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In the message wchar_t definition..., > Luigi Rizzo wrote : > > >This was on snap950322 with XFree86-3.1. > > > >While compiling the stock xdvi (xdvk-1.18f) I got the following errors: > > > >In file included from xdvi.h:22, > > from config.h:43, > > from xdvi.c:86: > >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h:74: conflicting types for `wchar_t' > >/usr/include/stdlib.h:50: previous declaration of `wchar_t' > > Try with -DNOFOIL_X_WCHAR_T or -DNO_FOIL_X_WCHAR_T > or even -DFOIL_X_WCHAR_T If some variation of this is in stdlib.h then this is by far the biggest hack I've ever seen in a vendor header file. wchar_t should only be typedef'ed in Xlib.h if (and only if) none of the system header files has it. Since FreeBSD's stdlib.h has a typedef for wchar_t it is clear in this case that the imake config is messed up. Probably the person has added -DX_WCHAR to their StandardDefines in the imake config. Almost always this is a mistake, and it's definitely a mistake on FreeBSD. > (didn't remember the correct one for FreeBSD) > > >/usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xos.h:107: conflicting types for `sys_errlist' > > remove #include in Xdvi sources > Maybe. Maybe not. This is just a warning and it can be safely ignored. FreeBSD isn't the only system that causes warnings during the build. A better answer is probably to get X11R6 patched through fix-11 or XFree86 3.1.1, where I believe this is fixed! -- Kaleb KEITHLEY X Consortium From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 07:40:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA06284 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:40:16 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA06275 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:40:14 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA28972; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:39:52 -0701 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA00203; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:17:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:17:36 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504241417.HAA00203@geli.clusternet> To: hasty@star-gate.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |>>> Jordan K. Hubbard said: | | > File Copy 2447.0 13.7 3149.0 17.6 3256.0 18.2 | |Well, file copy on Linux systems is faster because of the meta-data async |behavior. Not that is safe thing to have on a system but on benchmarks |it looks good. | | Amancio But of course it also depends on the particular driver, sometimes mostly so. The benchmarks I ran on Linux systems last fall certainly showed that; both NetBSD and FreeBSD were quite a bit faster than Linux 1.1.59 running the ncr controller. I have been politely asking my Linux acquaintences for an update, to no avail. Wonder why? The upshot is I don't think there is anything significant gained by ffs2, in real systems. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 07:51:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA06584 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:51:00 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA06575 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:50:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with UUCP id XAA01784; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:41:04 +0901 Received: by tama.spec.co.jp (8.6.11/6.4J.5) id XAA00777; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:21:29 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai Message-Id: <199504241421.XAA00777@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:21:29 +0900 (JST) Cc: amurai@spec.co.jp, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tony-o@iij.ad.jp (Toshiharu Ohno) In-Reply-To: <"PC-950423232723-3424*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer from "Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk" at Apr 23, 95 11:28:28 pm Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2731 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I have now discovered the problem that was giving me my reboots (at > least the ones concerned with IIJ PPP). Having found out what made it go > bang, it then became obvious that my configuration was in fact wrong - > though this does point up some issues in kernel packet routing and in the > IIJPPP that probably want fixing. > > How to make it go bang > ====================== > > This problem applies to any point-to-point interface - I have reproduced it > with tun0 and ppp0. > > ifconfig tun0 1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8 # normally done for you by ppp > route add default 1.2.3.4 # *WRONG* should be 4.5.6.7 > ping 9.8.7.6 # any address with no specific route > BOOM! I've never done before. Let me check. > Problem 3 > ========= > > IIJ PPP really needs a better means of adding default routes. The reason > my configuration was wrong in the first place was that my ISP assigns me a > fixed IP address, but the address at their end varies according to which of > their machines I dial into - so I set up the default route to my interface > address (fixed) and let the address of the other end get negotiated by PPP. > Manual dialling is no problem, since the script can contain "add 0 0 > HISADDR", but the problem with dial-on-demand is that the default route > must exist before the link is up (in order to get the packets to trigger > the auto-dial), yet may need to change afterwards when the address at the > far end has been negotiated. Either ppp needs to know all the routes that > point at its interface (which might be network route(s) rather than a > global default route), and delete/re-insert them once the address of the > far end is known, or else the kernel restriction on routing to the local > interface address needs to be relaxed (but what if you have multiple > point-to-point links sharing the same address). As you describe, A Dial on demand mode, IIJ PPP need to know the destination address for trigger of dialing. Normal usage, it can change a destination by negotiation without BOMB! But trigger packet will be lost casuing by *old* destination. (Chickin and Egg ?) So it's a specification and Limitation. Let me check Not only FreeBSD but also other platform(BSDI,HP,SUN,NetBSD) that it can be reproduce or not. > Any thoughts on the above greatly appreciated. I can probably make some > suitable changes to ppp to solve problem 3, but I'm not sure I understand > the existing kernel routing code well enough to fix 1 and 2. > > > Andrew. > > andrew.gordon@net-tel.co.uk > Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 07:54:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA06745 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:54:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA06734 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:54:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: amurai@spec.co.jp cc: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tony-o@iij.ad.jp (Toshiharu Ohno) Subject: Re: Re(2): IP problem with 950412-SNAP (and earlier -SNAPs) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 23:21:29 +0900." <199504241421.XAA00777@tama.spec.co.jp> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:54:37 -0700 Message-ID: <6733.798735277@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504241421.XAA00777@tama.spec.co.jp>, Atsushi Murai writes: >> ifconfig tun0 1.2.3.4 5.6.7.8 # normally done for you by ppp >> route add default 1.2.3.4 # *WRONG* should be 4.5.6.7 >> ping 9.8.7.6 # any address with no specific route >> BOOM! >I've never done before. Let me check. I think you'll find that it's a byproduct of a bug in the route cloning code. It's bitten me a few times whilst playing with getting ppp working, but never since... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 08:08:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA07262 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:08:17 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA07254 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:08:15 -0700 Received: from localhost.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA17934; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:08:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199504241508.IAA17934@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost.Berkeley.EDU didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: itsymbal@fas.harvard.edu, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: install problem with 3c509. What to do? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:43:03 +0900." <199504240743.QAA05850@remington.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:08:08 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In article >itsymbal@fas.harvard.edu writes: > >>> I did that. It appears to work properly. I got: >>> ep0: flags=863 mtu 1500 >>> inet 140.247.147.81 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 140.247.147.255 >>> ether 00:20:af:11:98 >>> >>> these settings are all correct for my card - all the numbers I got from >>> local netadmin for my computer. >>> So I assume it's not the card itself that is causing the problem. > >I think you must specify some link? options to ifconfig. link2 if you are using the 10base-T or aui port on the card. > >-- > HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp > WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html > Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 09:03:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA08489 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:03:10 -0700 Received: from grapenuts.bellcore.com (grapenuts.bellcore.com [192.4.4.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08483 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:03:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grapenuts.bellcore.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00537 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:02:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199504241602.MAA00537@grapenuts.bellcore.com> X-Authentication-Warning: grapenuts.bellcore.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Andrew Heybey To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.0 kernels with debugging symbols Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:02:35 -0400 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When I was running 1.1.5.1 and compiled a kernel with -g, the makefile kindly produced both a stripped and unstripped kernel. I could install the stripped version in / (where there is not much space) and examine crash dumps using the version with symbols. Now I am running the 950322 SNAP, and "config -g" followed by make produces a 7MB kernel which won't fit in my root partion. Also, "strip -x kernel" produces a kernel that won't boot. Is there any way to have my cake and eat it too? Eg, have a kernel with only global symbols for installation while saving a version with symbols for debugging? andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 09:12:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA08729 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:12:18 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08722 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:12:16 -0700 Received: (dyson@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) id JAA10942; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:12:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:12:04 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199504241612.JAA10942@Root.COM> To: ath@bellcore.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 2.0 kernels with debugging symbols Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There were bugs in the mmap code that broke "strip -x". They are fixed in current. You might be able to get by with a kernel only update to current. Lots of things have been fixed in the last month. John dyson@root.com PS. you might want to wait a day or so, things are still a bit in flux. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:03:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10822 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:03:50 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA10814 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:03:48 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14549; Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:56:38 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504241656.AA14549@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: 2.x and large memory configs To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:56:38 MDT Cc: rashid@haven.ios.com, smace@metal-mail.neosoft.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230418.VAA25646@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 22, 95 09:18:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Much more interesting: > > 80MB flash card and "execute in place" of binaries... How about the same thing, but one of those binaries being "install". 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:04:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10884 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:04:31 -0700 Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (joeg@flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10878 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:04:28 -0700 Received: (joeg@localhost) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id MAA14898 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:00:18 -0500 From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199504241700.MAA14898@flowbee.interaccess.com> Subject: Motorola ISDN WWW page To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:00:18 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 258 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While poking around at work I found Motorola's Web page for their ISDN products. http://www.mot.com/Internet/MIMS/ISG/ Josef -- Josef Grosch | joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." finger PGP key | - Buckaroo Banzai - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:14:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11123 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:14:27 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11117 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:14:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14593; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:07:42 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504241707.AA14593@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DHCP on FreeBSD (was Re: yeah, what is the deal with this?) To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:07:42 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 23, 95 02:07:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. > > I vaguely remember someone sending from a .jp address reporting a > go-ahead on DHCP for FreeBSD a month ago (or longer). Any updates on > this project? There are patches for static DHCP out of the SAMBA project. The problem here is that you have to have an address per machine that could possibly call in (because the addresses are based on the file /etc/ethers instead of being dynamically assigned. There *is* a version out of Japan, but the licensing is rather draconian; If I don't see a posting on it today, I'll repost the one from before (or you can look at the maining list archives). That version *is* a full dynamic assignment implementation (though I think configuration leaves a little to be desired). This neglects the lack of DHCP client support in FreeBSD's PPP clients and the impossibility of DHCP support for SLIP. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:23:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:23:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11225 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:23:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14701; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:17:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504241717.AA14701@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: library conversion To: gena@NetVision.net.il (Gennady Sorokopud) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:17:00 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230648.JAA29346@Burka.NetVision.net.il> from "Gennady Sorokopud" at Apr 23, 95 09:48:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there any way to convert static library to shared? Not unless the builf procedure for static libraries is changed. > I succeded once with: > > ar x libxxx.o > ld *.o -Bshareable -o libxxx.so.1.0 > > But now when i try to run a program linked with such library > i get : ld.so failed :-( > > Any ideas? Yes. It failed because the code in the library was position dependent code that used resolved jump label locations instead of relative jumps in order to do its branching (among other things). A shared library on an i386/i486/i586 box must be specifically compiled as PIC (Position Independent Code). This is because it could be mapped at any location in the executing program's address space, and thus the position that the code occupies must not be assumed. Actually, I've been considering the issues involved in dynamically relocatining the data are of shared libraries as well so that there is not the possibility of a version mismatch based on globals or static locals changing, and have almost come to the conclusion that all code should be compiled PIC for this to happen. This would help greatly with virtual base classes in a shared C++ library, I think. Anyway, the easy answer is that there is no way to convert the code from non-PIC to PIC, so unless the static libraries are compiled PIC, there's no way to convert a static library to a shared library. Sorry. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:24:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11239 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:24:11 -0700 Received: from caern.protocorp.com ([198.147.97.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11233 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:24:09 -0700 Received: from caern.leonardo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by caern.protocorp.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00220; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:23:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199504241723.KAA00220@caern.protocorp.com> To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: floppy tape formatting In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 01:13:19 EDT." <199504240513.BAA24339@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:23:29 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Welp, turns out my drive motor just died. That may have been responsible for a lot of my problems, let's hope. :-/ Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:40:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11450 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:40:11 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11444 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:40:09 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14857; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:33:15 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504241733.AA14857@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:33:14 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504230834.DAA09371@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 23, 95 03:34:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On the other hand, there are many reporting tools (ps, etc.) that > > have a limit on the number of tty type devices based on a interface > > identifier character and one or two instance identifiers (for ps this > > is one). > > What tools other than PS have this field-overflow type of problem? It's > the only one that ever gets brought up. If it's really the only thing > standing in the way of sensible device naming then it's time to change > the output format. It's time to change it for ps, who, rwho, rwhod, w, last, finger, and the accounting reporting programs. Sorry, but I don't believe this list to be exhaustive. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:46:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11576 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:46:38 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11570 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:46:36 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA23834; Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:41:21 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA07908; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:41:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02851; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:44:52 GMT Message-Id: <199504241144.LAA02851@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:05:35 +1000." <199504240105.LAA12989@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:44:20 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >It has always had me wondering why >I< had to tell config about spl-levels... > > >What we really should have is a TEXT_SET(device_probe...) and kill config... > > No linker magic is required or good. Drivers should register their > interrupt masking requirements as late as possible, preferably not > until open() completes. Not every device has an open routine (like network interfaces). There should be two steps: the first is registration (allow a driver to indicate that it will use an IRQ) to detect conflicts, the second is the actual enabling of the interrupt handler. BSD/OS actually has done this in a manner which is quite nice. There are no interrupt handlers defined in the config file. Every driver must register their interrupt handler in their attach routine. You can almost achieve the same thing in FreeBSD by setting id->id_intr in the attach routine. The problem is that the irq class is not so easily set in the driver (because of having isa_devtab_xxx in ioconf.c; it would be nicer if the isa_device structure had a id_class field which would be used to register the approriate interrupt handler). Right now, my new-improved DECPA driver needs the following config file line on FreeBSD: device di0 at isa? net irq ? The "net irq ?" is required so it's put into the right device table. Under BSD/OS, all I need is: di0 at isa? > I looked for other things that could be config'ed better in GENERIC: > > isa? config at attach time or later > vector config when intr is attached > iosiz config at attach time after probe decides it? > > These things can't always (never for isa) be config'ed later because > probing likely addresses is too dangerous: > > port, iomem The routines to check for port and mem conflicts need to generalized so they can be called from drivers probe routines. Note that BSD/OS contains routine to do such checks: int isa_portcheck(isa_ioport_t start, size_t size); int isa_memcheck(isa_physaddr_t start, size_t size); This allow driver to check over various port ranges without being accidentally stomped. This is really important for loadable drivers. > These things can't always be config'ed later because probing is unreliable: > > irq, drq The IRQ services in FreeBSD are definitely inferior to BSD/OS. BSD/OS supports shared interrupts for all interrupts (not specific to PCI as in FreeBSD). Some routines that FreeBSD could use are: isa_irqmask_t isa_irqalloc(isa_irqmask_t irqs); isa_irqmask_t isa_forceintr(int (*forceintr)(void *arg)); isa_irqalloc takes a set of irqs (IRQ%|IRQ9|...) and returns the highest IRQ not currently in use. isa_forceintr will call a routine to force an interrupt and then return which IRQ was signalled. I've never used DRQs so I can't say what's needed for them. Modifying my drivers to run under both FreeBSD and BSD/OS has been very enlightening. Some things BSD/OS does better while FreeBSD does better at other things. That's my two pence worth, Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com U*X Networking WWW URL: http://ftp.dec.com/%7Ethomas/ Digital Equipment Corporation Disclaimer: This message reflects my Littleton, MA own warped views, etc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 10:47:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11599 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:47:19 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11590 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:47:17 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14913; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:40:31 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504241740.AA14913@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: yeah, what is the deal with this? To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:40:31 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, lloth@menzo.sojourn.com In-Reply-To: <199504230927.CAA26469@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 02:27:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Too bad you can't bring up ICMP before IP on SLIP. Otherwise you'd > > > use DHCP in bootp to do it. Not that anyone has real DHCP support. > > > > Actually, a Japanese research institute recently announced their > > freely available DHCP for BSD software but their license agreement is > > simply too onerous to consider living with. > > onerous or not we either need a binary, on the cdrom or a pointer to it.. > this is the kind of stuff that sell a product..... Gee, then I suggest that onerous or not, the MIME mail API library that is publically available but under GPL (*not* LGPL, GPL) should also bo adopted. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 11:08:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11960 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:08:06 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA11954 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:08:05 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02853; Mon, 24 Apr 95 13:06:31 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504241806.AA02853@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Is P5 is faster than DX4 100 under FreeBSD? To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org (Anthony Graphics) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:06:30 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 24, 95 12:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5328 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Linux FAQ (or was it HOWTO?) states that bogomips are measured as > DX2/DX4 Mhz * 0.5 > P5 Mhz * 0.39 > The question is: whether the same thing applies in FreeBSD? > How P5 60 Mhz compares with 486 DX4 100 Mhz (just a rough > pointer would be nice). I mean just raw cpu integer performance. > AGL It would seem to me that integer performance would be very similar, because the system is running at a similar speed. Years ago, I wrote a very simple set of benchmarks with the intention of being able to use them to perform "orders-of-magnitude" comparisons. (Along the way, I discovered that there is indeed a lot of difference that things like optimizations can make...) The point was to perform comparisons of performance for a system that would ultimately become a Usenet news box. I've since tired of trying to squeeze every iota of performance out of a box, however, because CPU is (now) relatively cheap. I still run these tests to this very day, because I believe that they give me a reasonable feel for a machine's CPU abilities. (I've typically found that I/O abilities are dependent on the controllers and peripherals; I have a bunch of things I look for here as well). The tests are not by any means intended to be "fair" - I do not make any explicit attempts to compensate for caching, etc. The tests were intended to give me an idea of what *I* consider to be reasonable things to consider. Running on a Pentium 90 with FreeBSD 2.0R, gcc -O: solarpc# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 9 secs 44444444 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 15 secs 6666666 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 25 secs 1200000 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 76 secs 131578 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 15 secs 1000000 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 56 secs 107142 str/sec Running on a 486DX2/80 with FreeBSD 2.0R, gcc -O: pooh# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 30 secs 13333333 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 38 secs 2631578 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 35 secs 857142 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 83 secs 120481 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 32 secs 468750 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 114 secs 52631 str/sec Running on a 386DX/40 with FreeBSD 2.0R, gcc -O: gateway# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 123 secs 3252032 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 155 secs 645161 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 129 secs 232558 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 124 secs 80645 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 96 secs 156250 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 197 secs 30456 str/sec Running on a 386DX/40 with Linux 1.0.9, gcc -O: curitiba:~$ ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 133 secs 3007518 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 165 secs 606060 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 186 secs 161290 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 155 secs 64516 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 112 secs 133928 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 138 secs 43478 str/sec Running on a 386DX/16+387 with FreeBSD 2.0-950412, gcc -O: praxis# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 329 secs 1215805 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 396 secs 252525 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 355 secs 84507 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 326 secs 30674 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 237 secs 63291 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 319 secs 18808 str/sec Running on a Sun 3/60 with SunOS 4.1, gcc -O: solaria# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 346 secs 1156069 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 399 secs 250626 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 428 secs 70093 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 375 secs 26666 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 307 secs 48859 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 401 secs 14962 str/sec Running on a Sun SS2 with Weitek CPU and SunOS 4.1.3, gcc -O: brasil# ./simpletests reg_addition(400000000) 15 secs 26666666 add/sec mem_addition(100000000) 288 secs 347222 add/sec bzero_small(30000000) 82 secs 365853 str/sec bzero_large(10000000) 177 secs 56497 str/sec bcopy_small(15000000) 64 secs 234375 str/sec bcopy_large(6000000) 139 secs 43165 str/sec Now, if memory serves, Linux bogomips generally come out to about CPU/5 for 386DX's or CPU/2 for 486's. That would place a 386DX/16 at 3.2 bogomips, which would correspond to about 380000 additions per second (bear in mind that the code includes loop code, etc, so this is not unreasonable). That suggests that a Sun 3/60 is about 3.04 bogomips, and Sun advertises it as a 3 MIPS box. (ok that checks out). So let's extrapolate... Now, the 386/40 with Linux would be about 7.9 bogomips. The 386/40 with FreeBSD would be about 8.6 bogomips (a little over the predicted 8?)... the 486dx2/80 would be 35.1 (a little under the predicted 40?), and the Pentium would be 117.0, which does not seem reasonable, although the P90 does appear to be at least 2x on most of my tests over a 486dx2/80... so perhaps the P90 performs very well (and/or optimizes much better) on tight loops. Interestingly enough, the Linux formula you gave would suggest that the P90 would be rated at 35.1 bogomips. I then ftp'd a Linux boot disk and did some measurements on the machines I had easy access to: machine bogo 386dx/40 8.0 486dx2/80 41.1 pentium 90 36.2 Well, draw your own conclusions... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 11:15:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA12145 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:15:38 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA12139 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:15:36 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02887; Mon, 24 Apr 95 13:14:23 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504241814.AA02887@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:14:22 -0500 (CDT) Cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240655.XAA29984@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 11:55:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 819 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think your version is TOO brief.. > part of the effect of the banner is to reinforce the idea that there is > more going on than just the USENET group shows. > > > > > [ Reposted from the FreeBSD-questions mailing list! To subscribe to this ] > > [ list, send mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with "help" in message body. ] > > > > ... and set Reply-To: to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org like someone > > else mentioned. > > If we are sure that works for all NEWS software.... Usenet Rule #1) Nothing works for ALL news software. Personally, I *would* like to see this stuff gated out to Usenet... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 11:48:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA12554 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:48:46 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12548 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:48:45 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA02129; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:41:05 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504241841.LAA02129@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241144.LAA02851@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 24, 95 11:44:20 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3372 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >It has always had me wondering why >I< had to tell config about spl-levels... > > > > >What we really should have is a TEXT_SET(device_probe...) and kill config... > > > > No linker magic is required or good. Drivers should register their > > interrupt masking requirements as late as possible, preferably not > > until open() completes. > > Not every device has an open routine (like network interfaces). > > There should be two steps: the first is registration (allow a driver to > indicate that it will use an IRQ) to detect conflicts, the second is the > actual enabling of the interrupt handler. > > BSD/OS actually has done this in a manner which is quite nice. There are > no interrupt handlers defined in the config file. Every driver must register > their interrupt handler in their attach routine. This is what MACH does. > > You can almost achieve the same thing in FreeBSD by setting id->id_intr in > the attach routine. The problem is that the irq class is not so easily set > in the driver (because of having isa_devtab_xxx in ioconf.c; it would be > nicer if the isa_device structure had a id_class field which would be used > to register the approriate interrupt handler). This is what I was pushing for in the first place. > > Right now, my new-improved DECPA driver needs the following config file line > on FreeBSD: > > device di0 at isa? net irq ? > > The "net irq ?" is required so it's put into the right device table. Under > BSD/OS, all I need is: > > di0 at isa? > > > I looked for other things that could be config'ed better in GENERIC: > > > > isa? config at attach time or later > > vector config when intr is attached > > iosiz config at attach time after probe decides it? > > > > These things can't always (never for isa) be config'ed later because > > probing likely addresses is too dangerous: > > > > port, iomem > > The routines to check for port and mem conflicts need to generalized so > they can be called from drivers probe routines. Note that BSD/OS contains > routine to do such checks: > > int isa_portcheck(isa_ioport_t start, size_t size); > int isa_memcheck(isa_physaddr_t start, size_t size); > > This allow driver to check over various port ranges without being > accidentally stomped. This is really important for loadable drivers. > > > These things can't always be config'ed later because probing is unreliable: > > > > irq, drq > > The IRQ services in FreeBSD are definitely inferior to BSD/OS. BSD/OS > supports shared interrupts for all interrupts (not specific to PCI as > in FreeBSD). Some routines that FreeBSD could use are: > > isa_irqmask_t isa_irqalloc(isa_irqmask_t irqs); > isa_irqmask_t isa_forceintr(int (*forceintr)(void *arg)); > > isa_irqalloc takes a set of irqs (IRQ%|IRQ9|...) and returns the highest > IRQ not currently in use. isa_forceintr will call a routine to force an > interrupt and then return which IRQ was signalled. > > I've never used DRQs so I can't say what's needed for them. > > Modifying my drivers to run under both FreeBSD and BSD/OS has been very > enlightening. Some things BSD/OS does better while FreeBSD does better at > other things. > > That's my two pence worth, I must say I like what BSD/OS has done.. it's even better than MACH and OSF/1-386 which does all that stuff except for the forceintr stuff. > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 12:04:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA12956 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:04:26 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA12947 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:04:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:04:25 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504241904.MAA12947@freefall.cdrom.com> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Many Linux friends I know have stopped reading the *linux newsgroups because of the S/N ratio. Many FreeBSD friends I know have stopped reading the FreeBSD lists because of the S/N ratio and the sheer volume of mail. This includes dedicated FreeBSD diehards. Certainly, I no longer tell anyone new to subscribe to the FreeBSD mailing lists, because I know the volume will overwhelm them. When old members have to unsubscribe to the mailing lists and new members can't join, then you know something is definitely wrong. The current mailing list status quo is untenable. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 12:23:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13816 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:23:18 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA13808 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:23:16 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA02311; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:22:44 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504241922.MAA02311@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241904.MAA12947@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 24, 95 12:04:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 718 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Many Linux friends I know have > stopped reading the *linux newsgroups because of the S/N ratio. > > Many FreeBSD friends I know have stopped reading the FreeBSD lists because > of the S/N ratio and the sheer volume of mail. This includes dedicated > FreeBSD diehards. Certainly, I no longer tell anyone new to subscribe to > the FreeBSD mailing lists, because I know the volume will overwhelm them. > When old members have to unsubscribe to the mailing lists and new members > can't join, then you know something is definitely wrong. The current > mailing list status quo is untenable. but there is a point in expanding the NEWS coverage.. rememeber I was suggesting MAIL -> News and not visa-versa. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 12:31:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14209 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:31:27 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14200 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:31:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:31:27 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504241931.MAA14200@freefall.cdrom.com> To: julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk but there is a point in expanding the NEWS coverage.. rememeber I was suggesting MAIL -> News and not visa-versa. Sorry, I wasn't explicit in my last mail message. We both agree on expanding the news coverage. I want to go further and see the news coverage subsume the mailing lists, but for the moment, I'd be happy just to see the mail -> news gateway. Of course, I'd be happier to see the news -> mail gateway too. Then I can unsubscribe to the mailing lists and just read news. (Anyone who likes mail can still get their quota of mail by staying on the mailing lists. Nothing in this proposal changes the status quo for them.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 13:15:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA15104 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:15:02 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15092 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:14:54 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19390; Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:08:11 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504242008.AA19390@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: toor@jsdinc.root.com (John S. Dyson) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:08:11 MDT Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199504231256.MAA02465@jsdinc.root.com> from "John S. Dyson" at Apr 23, 95 12:56:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, the real measure would be Linux 1.2++ and FreeBSD from > > mid March on. And file copy on the Barracuda isn't so hot, > > I only get ~3.5 MB/s on bonnie out of mine, so I suspect > > that the advantage there is real. That leaves just the execl > > and pipe based context switch to check out. It's been > > years since I ran these, aren't there a lot more tests? > > > > Russell > > > Part of the execl problem is the Sun-OS style shared libs that we > use. Without shared libs, our fork/exec times kick-butt. I think > that we-all have made some improvements in the times now so that > my lmbench fork/exec tests (with our shared libs) on my 486/66 are fairly > close to the example Linux Pentium results. But, our pipe performance could > be better though. > > John First, this is a bogus benchmark set. Unless the benchmarks are run on identical hardware, there are totally non-referential and are thus meaningless. The correct way to run comparative benchmarks is to boot a DOS disk and fdisk/mbr the same machine and installl on the same machine over and over with the different OS's. Not "identical hardware", the same machine. That out of the way, there are several areas where Linux does outperform BSD, mostly because people haven't been paying attention to them (and there's no reason for recriminations here because of this fact, since there's really no reason that they should be required to. On the other hand, there's nothing preventing them from being considered nod). The first is context switch. There are several significan differences in the way context switch takes place in BSD and Linux. The BSD model for the actual switch itself is very close to the UnixWare/Solaris model, but is missing delayed storage of the FPU registers on a switch. This is because BSD really doesn't have its act together regarding the FPU, and can't really be corrected until it does. On hardware that does proper exception handling (like the Pentiums tested), the FPU context can be thrown out to the process it belongs to after being delayed over several context switches previous on the basis of "uses FPU" being set in the process or not, and a soft interrupt of the FPU as if trapping to an emulator to tag the first reference in each process. Pretty much all the UNIX implementations and Linux do this, but BSD does not. It should be pretty obvious that for a benchmark, when there is a single program doing FPU crap, that the FPU delayed switchout means no switch actually occurs during the running of the benchmark. You can think of this as a benchmark cheat, since it is a large locality of reference hack, in effect. A second issue in context switch is the TLB lookaside switchout. I have to say that personnaly, I'd be happy with the UnixWare level of performance in this area, because I believe the Linux stuff to be extremely processer dependent. Nevertheless, it should be looked at. The system call overhead in BSD is typically larger. This is because of address range checking for copyin/copyout operations. Linux has split this up into a seperate check call and copy operations, which is more prone to programmer error leaving security holes than an integral copy/check, but they have an advantage when it comes to multiple use memoy regions because of this (areas that are copied from several times or which are copied both in and out). Linux, as part of this, has no copyinstr. Instead, they use a routine called "getpathname". This not only allows them to special case the code, it also allows them greater flexibility than traditional copyinstr implementations when it comes to internationalization. Since the only strings allowed into the kernel from user space are path names, and since there is a single string routine for this, then a simple replacement of this routine allows a quick change to 16 bit character strings. Part of the checking is to allow address faulting instead of precheck comparison -- in other words, if the processer honors write protect in protected mode, this becomes a NULL op. The magic here is that you then only actually perform the check on i386 processers and not on i486/i586. The memory mapping is adjusted so this works. The final major advantage is the kernel premapping from where they locate their processes in memory relative to the kernel, which allows them to only partially change instead of fully changing the page mappings. This means that they keep more per process info in core than BSD. The file system overhead is based in large part on function call overhead relative to path component decompositions. Linus Torvalds has correctly implemented a two stage caching algorithm that I see as being about 33% faster than the BSD implementation, but about 10% slower than the USL implementation (in addition, both the BSD and the Linux schemes implementat negative caching, an addition of 3 compares being required to support this in the USL code. The main problem with the path component decomposition in the BSD model is that it returns to the lookup routine and requires iteration back down into the file system across a function call boundry. This could be avoided with some changes to the lookup mechanism itself, and it would coincidently fix the context lookup problem for a devfs with a directory depth greater than 2 (the current limit is because of the fact that a component can not cause context to be inherited from lookup to lookup, thus the only context you have is the previous object: the directory in which the current object is being looked up). Part of the fix would involve cleaning up the symlink following code (which causes a lot of grunge even when a link is not being followed), fixing the special casing for the trailing slash problem, and seperating the // POSIX file system escape prefix processing. The second part of the fix is to avoid actual recursion by establising a directory depth limit and using a stack variable array instead of a function call to recurse. On the shared libraries themselves, there should be preestablished memory maps that can be copied instead of being reestablished for each fork and for each exec that results in a shared library being loaded. This can be considered as a cache, and would result in reduces startup time, at the cost of either replacing the mmap() call, or making mmap() a library wrapper to a call that takes a command subfunction, then using a different command subfunction for library mapping (and potentially dlopen as well) than is used for user access to mmap() as a libc call. To speed the forks themselves, prespawing of uncommited processes, or pregeneration of an uncommited process that could be clones, with the number of these outstanding being high and low watermarked (and killed processes being reclaimed to the pool below the high watermark instead of being totally discarded). Finally, the pipe overhead is traceable to system call overhead, the pipe implementation itself, and the file system stack coeelescing being a little less than desirable. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 13:44:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA15878 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:44:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15869 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:44:24 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19544; Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:37:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504242037.AA19544@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:37:57 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504232330.QAA28279@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 23, 95 04:30:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My suggestion: > > 'questions' is gated to the news group by being sent to an alias > 'news' > > all 'news' items have the following headder tacked on the FRONT of them > before being gated to usenet: > > **************************************************************************** > * This article has been forwarded to USENET from the FreeBSD-questions * > * mailing list. It's appearance here on USENET is for informational * > * purposes only. Replies to USENET on this topic will NOT be seen * > * by the original posters. to reply, send mail to: * > * FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org * > * send mail to majordome@FreeBSD.org, stating 'help' for more information * > **************************************************************************** How about making "reply to poster" mean FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org, if you actually go ahead with this? And then note that they can "reply to poster". Which would of course cause the message to be echoed by the gateway to the news group. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 13:51:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA16059 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:51:27 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA16053 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:51:23 -0700 Received: from tartufo.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA17811; Mon, 24 Apr 95 13:45:43 -0700 Received: by tartufo.pcs.dec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Mon, 24 Apr 95 22:45 MSZ Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 22:45 MSZ From: me@tartufo.pcs.dec.com (Michael Elbel) To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Any objection to adding a .undef(VARNAME) to make? Newsgroups: pcs.freebsd.hackers References: <199504220356.UAA02180@freefall.cdrom.com> <199504220519.WAA00942@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Reply-To: me@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In pcs.freebsd.hackers you write: >> Why do we use . instead of #? I've installed pmake on my system, >> but it's not a straight drop-in replacement for make due to this and >> other differences. >> >I do not have an answer for this, it was something done at CSRG. It would >be a major rework to change it though! Hmm, I'm confused: (17) uname -a FreeBSD dodo 2.0.950418-SNAP FreeBSD 2.0.950418-SNAP #1: Sat Apr 22 07:31:37 MET DST 1995 root@dodo:/1/curr/src/sys/compile/dodo i386 (18) cd /usr/src/usr.bin/make (19) grep -i pmake * Makefile.dist:pmake: Makefile.dist:cc *.o lst.lib/*.o -o pmake compat.c: *mode of PMake. Most of the special functionality of PMake dir.c: *of course, that pmake doesn't then detect changes to these directories dir.c: *An additional thing to consider is that pmake is used primarily dir.c: * (fish.c) and what pmake finds (./fish.c). job.c: *jobs. PMake is forked and a child shell created. main.c: *-f argument. Sets the .MAKEFLAGS PMake variable based on all the main.c: * on a different machine with pmake. make.c: * the start of the make. This is to keep pmake from getting make.c: *If the query flag was given to pmake, no job will be started, make.h: *The global definitions for pmake make.h:/* Attributes applied by PMake */ I thought our make *was* a hacked version of pmake ??? Makefile.dist even generates a 'pmake'. Michael -- Michael Elbel, PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@FreeBSD.org Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 13:57:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA16388 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:57:27 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16382 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:57:18 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id WAA19275 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:57:10 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA06506 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:19:21 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504231819.UAA06506@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:19:20 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504200649.IAA02111@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 20, 95 08:49:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1562 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Joerg Wunsch wrote: > Hmm, it's perhaps a question of naming. I think the Berkeley > tradition was to have even-numbered releases with lots of new stuff > and odd-numbered releases which have been mainly bugfix releases. > (I dunno if this has been intention or not.) > > However, _every_ release should be of some basic quality that's better > than say the average ***x release quality. We all know about 2.0, but > it should remain an exception. Yeah, what makes our job for 2.1 so > hard is the fact that 1.1.5.1 was of such a quality that it beats many > commercial systems -- and we want to have 2.1 at least as stable as > 1.1.5.1. I'd love to see a stable 2.1, too. I love the idea to bring out an interim version earlier, because 2.0 had it's flaws. But then I'd recommend to take the needed time, to make 2.1 as good as you are all telling us since months. I think everybody has the amount of understanding, that a 2.1 quality release takes a certain amount of time, after adding so much new features. So make a better 2.0 release with important bugfixes and a glimpse of 2.1 and please take the necessary time, to make a real nice 2.1. Otherwise it could happen, that we see a 2.1.5, soon, because you made it in a hurry. Thanks for you work Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:25:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17596 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:25:51 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17556 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:25:24 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06465; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:25 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA18675 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:23 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id WAA04525 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:53:43 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504242053.WAA04525@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Hot Java.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:53:40 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <27759.798714237@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 02:03:57 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 327 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > porting of this to FreeBSD? Just for amusement: `Java' (actually written as `Jawa') is a Czech motorcycle brand. :-) [I remember them as being way noisy ones, but i guess this might have changed meanwhile. Someone out there in .cz listening here?] Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:26:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:26:53 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17597 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:25:53 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06476; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA18681 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:25 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id XAA04578 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:09:09 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504242109.XAA04578@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:09:06 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241237.HAA02410@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 24, 95 07:37:58 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 634 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Yes, that entirely makes sense. I was considering the situation myself; > > what else could you do given that the "disk" can be jerked out from under > > you? > > If there is a guaranteed unique ID you can get from the CDROM, you can > use that to maintain multiple mount structures in memory, and prompt the > user for the appropriate disc when necessary. This would be great. The current solution about stale NFS file handles on a CDROM is a mess. If there would be something more rational, i'm willing to integrate it into the cd9660 code. Jörg (yes, with the umlaut -- people behind the DEC gateway won't see it :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:27:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17732 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:27:57 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17612 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:26:08 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06357; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA18660 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:24:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA04343 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:22:23 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504241922.VAA04343@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:22:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" at Apr 24, 95 09:02:36 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 810 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > J"org Wunsch writes: > > >> Could you add this tip to the kernel-debug.FAQ, J"org ? > > > > Once my CVS is back, yes. Otherwise: you've got commit privs, too. > > Ah, but I >do not< have commit privs (yet) ! Otherwise, I wouldn't have asked > you to do it. Ooops, i've confused this. > > I don't mind doing it however. Will keep you message in my growing > > work queue, as a reminder. > > OK, thanks. Could be that I get the change done before you get around to > putting the "evil trickery" into the FAQ. But then, a reference to the "-w" > flag should probably be added to it. Okay, we should do it altogether then. > > Jvrg > > Using the Umlauts on your keyboard again, eh ? :-) Umm, i forgot about the braindead DEC gateway again. :-/ J"org (<- especially for our 7-bit-only DEC fans :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:28:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17753 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:28:14 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17747 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:28:12 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19990; Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:21:49 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504242121.AA19990@cs.weber.edu> Subject: List management: DIGEST TIME? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:21:48 MDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While everyone is at list/newgroup/gateway reform... Has anyone considered that digesting the lists would both reduce the mail load and reduce the inbox load for people? It would also reduce the number of connections people would have to deal with coming into their box (If they pay that way). CV: the Samba list Of course, a potential missing piece is the exploder you'd want to use so that reply messages didn't reference digest subjects instead of referencing the actual subject of the message in the digest being responded to. Also like the Samba list, this would not have to be mandatory -- you could be on either a direct repeat or a digest repeat (I'm on the digest repeat for the samba, but would want to stay on the regular lists for most of the FreeBSD lists I'm on, except questions, where it would be easier to batch-answer problems). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:30:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17830 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:30:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17823 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:30:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:18:08 MDT." <199504241418.IAA04025@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:30:05 -0700 Message-ID: <17822.798759005@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, folks I have talked to have given me the exact opposite > report. And some people on the newsgroups have complained about the > switch to ELF binaries since they are significantly slower than the > original shlib implementation. > > I think our shlib implementatio is still probably slower than the ELF > shlib stuff, but I suspect it's not much anymore. And as I told H.J. Lu, one of the Linux shared lib developers, it's not really fair to compare Linux/ELF to ANYTHING in the FreeBSD camp until Linux/ELF is truly in wide circulation. Since the Slackware distribution currently leads the market in overall Linux users (something like 60-70%), I'll be willing to talk about Linux and ELF in the same breath when Slackware goes ELF, but not a moment before. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:37:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18144 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:37:28 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18138 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:37:24 -0700 Received: (dyson@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) id OAA11761; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:37:04 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199504242137.OAA11761@Root.COM> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <9504242008.AA19390@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 24, 95 02:08:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2958 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > my lmbench fork/exec tests (with our shared libs) on my 486/66 are fairly > > close to the example Linux Pentium results. But, our pipe performance could > > be better though. > > > First, this is a bogus benchmark set. Unless the benchmarks are run > on identical hardware, there are totally non-referential and are thus > meaningless. Not totally... It is okay for ballpark info. Benchmarks in general (other than the actual application that the machine is going to be used for) can be made to lie. > > A second issue in context switch is the TLB lookaside switchout. I > have to say that personnaly, I'd be happy with the UnixWare level of > performance in this area, because I believe the Linux stuff to be > extremely processer dependent. Nevertheless, it should be looked at. > It is extremely simple in FreeBSD, and is not significant. The page tables are pageable only if they are not used (empty.) All it takes is loading one of the CPU registers, and voila!!!! new address space!!! Except in conditions of significant paging, the page tables are there and ready to be used quickly. > > Part of the checking is to allow address faulting instead of precheck > comparison -- in other words, if the processer honors write protect in > protected mode, this becomes a NULL op. The magic here is that you > then only actually perform the check on i386 processers and not on > i486/i586. The memory mapping is adjusted so this works. > FreeBSD has depended on that off/on since before 1.1.5. We decided that a additional checks are a good idea, and have explicit diagnostics if the kernel causes unintended user-space page-faults. > > The final major advantage is the kernel premapping from where they > locate their processes in memory relative to the kernel, which allows > them to only partially change instead of fully changing the page > mappings. This means that they keep more per process info in core > than BSD. > The kernel is mapped by exactly the same page-tables for all processes. FreeBSD switches processes VM-wise by loading a new control register. No special copying is needed. Cloning the kernel part of a new process address space is done by copying the page directory entries directly into the new processes page directory. The kernel size in FreeBSD is dynamic, and can grow as needed (up to 256MB), special enhancements have been made to allow this and still maintain quick context switching from the VM perspective. > > On the shared libraries themselves, there should be preestablished > memory maps that can be copied instead of being reestablished for each > fork and for each exec that results in a shared library being loaded. > There is some bogosity in the way processes inherit their parents address space -- and we have been working that. I like the idea of standard addresses for shared libs also -- it opens up lots of possibilities for performance improvement. John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:40:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18346 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:40:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA18340 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:40:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20115; Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:30:03 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504242130.AA20115@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:30:02 MDT Cc: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241023.MAA29960@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Apr 24, 95 12:23:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm, if this was acceptable we could gate all the "general" mailing lists > > to the newsgroups in this way. They'd look like the linux newsgroups then :-) > > That's a thing I don't want to see. Many Linux friends I know have > stopped reading the *linux newsgroups because of the S/N ratio. I have a one-word argument against bidirectional gating: SPAM I realize that there is nothing that prevent C&S or whoever from posting off-topic grunge to mailing lists as well as news groups, but the job should not be done for them. There is enough danger of junk email just publishing the addresses. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:40:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18353 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:40:50 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18347 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:40:46 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA05838; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:44:41 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:44:41 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504242144.PAA05838@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: benchmark hell.." (Apr 24, 2:30pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Actually, folks I have talked to have given me the exact opposite > > report. And some people on the newsgroups have complained about the > > switch to ELF binaries since they are significantly slower than the > > original shlib implementation. > > > > I think our shlib implementatio is still probably slower than the ELF > > shlib stuff, but I suspect it's not much anymore. > > And as I told H.J. Lu, one of the Linux shared lib developers, it's > not really fair to compare Linux/ELF to ANYTHING in the FreeBSD camp > until Linux/ELF is truly in wide circulation. Since the Slackware > distribution currently leads the market in overall Linux users > (something like 60-70%), I'll be willing to talk about Linux and ELF > in the same breath when Slackware goes ELF, but not a moment before. As long as we're talking about the Linux folks, I found it amusing in talks with H.J. how he didn't understand our shlib implementation, and wondered why we didn't switch to using ELF. He kept trying to show me out easy it was to build an ELF shlib and it was the *exact* same steps as we have been using since the original implementation. The only difference in the entire process is that we use the command 'ld -Bshareable' and they used a 'gcc -someother option' to build the library. It ended up being the same command sooner or later, but I found it amusing none-the-less. For him the ELF transition made his workload orders of magnitude easier. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:43:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18406 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:43:57 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18395 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:43:52 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA05858; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:48:07 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:48:07 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504242148.PAA05858@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "List management: DIGEST TIME?" (Apr 24, 3:21pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone considered that digesting the lists would both reduce > the mail load and reduce the inbox load for people? It would also > reduce the number of connections people would have to deal with > coming into their box (If they pay that way). On that note, it would be trivial to make a digested version of the mailing list available. Majordomo is already setup to do it, though the postmaster would need to set it up. I had one working on my box before I did the majordomo security upgrade on freefall. > CV: the Samba list > > Of course, a potential missing piece is the exploder you'd want to > use so that reply messages didn't reference digest subjects instead > of referencing the actual subject of the message in the digest being > responded to. Procmail can auto-explode email automatically, but it requires that folks install it or something other mail-exploder. > Also like the Samba list, this would not have to be mandatory -- you > could be on either a direct repeat or a digest repeat (I'm on the digest > repeat for the samba, but would want to stay on the regular lists for > most of the FreeBSD lists I'm on, except questions, where it would > be easier to batch-answer problems). I would recommend that it be a completely separate mailing list. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 14:58:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19656 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:58:05 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19650 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:58:03 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <24707-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:56:59 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA07444 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:51:09 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id GAA21699; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 06:49:32 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 06:49:32 GMT From: Stephen Hocking Message-Id: <199504240649.GAA21699@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thought we ought to get onto these people and see what they've got, whether it is a good WABI style thing or only at the level of WINE. Anybody in that area .oooooo. oooo ooooo ooooo ooo .oooooo. d8P' `Y8b `888 `888' `888' `8' d8P' `Y8b 888 .oooo. 888 888 888 8 888 888 `P )88b 888 888 888 8 888 888 .oP"888 888 888 888 8 888 ooooo `88b ooo d8( 888 888 888 o `88. .8' `88. .88' `Y8bood8P' `Y888""8o o888o o888ooooood8 `YbodP' `Y8bood8P' Cal Linux Users Group (CalLUG) Software Demonstration THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 7:00 PM, Hewlett Packard Auditorium, Soda Hall UC Berkeley Campus -- NOTE CHANGE IN DATE! ----------------------------------------------------- SOFTWARE DEMONSTRATION FROM WILLOWS SOFTWARE: Willows is the developer of Microsoft Windows based cross-platform (UNIX, Linux, Max, OS2) application development tools. They also have developed a binary emulator which runs Windows applications under Linux XFree86, apparently much better than other products on the market. (We've seen Microsoft Excel and Word for Windows run flawlessly under it. Say goodbye to your DOS partitions!) They will be demonstrating both products and will be soliciting feedback from CalLUG members. DISCUSSION: Following the demonstration will, of course, be informal discussion about the demonstration itself and other Linux concerns. OTHER NEWS: CalLUG now has an office in Soda Hall! We'll take a (brief) tour after the meeting. ABOUT CALLUG: If you're a Linux user or want to become one, CalLUG is the place for you. (Linux is a freely available UNIX operating system that operates on 386 and higher PC platforms.) Whether you're interested in getting started, surfing the net, system administration, doing your class assignments at home, or heavy-duty kernel hacking, you need no longer be alone. CalLUG hopes to be a resource for new users, a forum for the exchange of all types of ideas pertaining to Linux, and a contributing member of the Linux community. We meet on a monthly basis on the UC Berkeley Campus. ATTENDING THE MEETING: All are welcome at the meeting, including new or non-users and non-UC Berkeley affiliates. Hewlett Packard Auditorium is located on the third floor of Soda Hall, on the corner of Hearst Avenue and LeRoy Avenue in Berkeley. Parking is available for $3 in the garage at Hearst and La Loma. For a detailed map, see . This meeting is wheelchair accessible. If you have any questions, send mail to callug-board@amacrine.berkeley.edu. -- Paul Eastham, paul@ch9.reshall.berkeley.edu Chairman, Cal Linux Users Group -- Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember Keywords: and a short description of the software. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 15:54:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21310 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:54:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21303 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:54:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Andreas Klemm cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 20:19:20 +0200." <199504231819.UAA06506@knobel.GUN.de> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:54:02 -0700 Message-ID: <21302.798764042@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd love to see a stable 2.1, too. I love the idea to bring out an > interim version earlier, because 2.0 had it's flaws. But then I'd > recommend to take the needed time, to make 2.1 as good as you are all > telling us since months. And again, that's exactly the intention. Some people seem to be confusion regarding 2.1 and 2.0.5 ("So, since you're doing 2.0.5, that means that 2.1 will be of lower quality?" "NO!!!"). 2.0.5 is being done as an _INTERIM_ release. It's not 2.1, it's not meant to be 2.1, it's meant simply to BUY US TIME to make 2.1 all it's supposed to be. Most people don't realize that there are still many hundreds (exact sales figures can't be disclosed) of FreeBSD 2.0R CDs going out each week, and each 2.0R CD goes out is another customer who's going to be fighting bugs we've already fixed. These interim releases are as important to us in reducing -questions load as they are to WC, who gets to answer all the tech support calls for FreeBSD (as I think many people here are forgetting!). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:22:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:22:24 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23440 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:22:17 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA03144; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:22:05 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504242322.QAA03144@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240649.GAA21699@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Apr 24, 95 06:49:32 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 813 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't understand how Linux has such a strong following at CAL :( Jordan, were these the people you were talking too? (willow) > Thought we ought to get onto these people and see what > they've got, whether it is a good WABI style thing or only at the level of > WINE. Anybody in that area > > > Willows is the developer of Microsoft Windows based > cross-platform (UNIX, Linux, Max, OS2) application development > tools. They also have developed a binary emulator which > runs Windows applications under Linux XFree86, apparently much > better than other products on the market. (We've seen > Microsoft Excel and Word for Windows run flawlessly under it. > Say goodbye to your DOS partitions!) They will be > demonstrating both products and will be soliciting feedback > from CalLUG members. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:26:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23979 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:26:30 -0700 Received: from grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.5.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23961 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:26:25 -0700 Received: from cascade.cs.ubc.ca (dgaudet@cascade-2.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.5.4]) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA17567 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:25:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:25:41 -0700 From: Dean Gaudet Message-Id: <199504242325.QAA17567@grolsch.cs.ubc.ca> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: comments on an attempted install Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just thought I'd share with you my experiences while trying to install FreeBSD. I'll try to keep it short. I'm quite familiar with installing operating systems, and with Unix admin. System config: (more info available on request) Intel 486DX/33, 16Mb RAM, AMI BIOS IDE drive 0: connor 116 Mb IDE drive 1: seagate 545 Mb (requiring MBR geometry remapping program) I was dismayed that it was not easier to pick and choose parts of the main distribution -- bindist is too huge. I was planning on installing over 14.4 (same way I installed Linux). After seeing what I'd have to download I decided to take my machine to school and plop it on the net. After some personal debate I decided to go with the 950411-SNAP. I built the boot and cpio floppies. At this point I ran into a huge snag that stumped me for a while. My machine wouldn't boot the boot floppy. It turns out that your boot floppy won't work with the MBR geometry remapping program that my 2nd 545Mb IDE drive "requires". I didn't have this problem with Linux, so it surprised me. "requires" is a strong word -- I don't intend to use that drive with anything other than FreeBSD/Linux. So I don't care if DOS can't touch it. This MBR program is one of those ones that requires you to hold down CTRL if you want to boot from floppy. If you want more information on it, contact me. I was happy to discover that FreeBSD didn't require the geometry remapper. (Well it gave me some error messages later which I just ignored... and it still seems to work.) (as an after thought: because FreeBSD doesn't work with it, and every other OS I've tried requires it (Linux, DOS, OS/2) I wouldn't be able to share my system with anything -- so this should probably be looked into -- once I get linux going again I can dump the MBR and send it to you if needed) I ran fdisk on drive 0 (I wanted 32Mb / and 32Mb swap remainder DOS). Fdisk should contain a list of the other partition types. Although I suppose you may have omitted them because of the boneheadedness of many other OSs that insist on their own fdisk being used to create partitions. Regardless, I couldn't set aside my DOS partition at the beginning of the disk. I was too lazy to bother booting DOS to try again. While running fdisk on drive 1 (the 545Mb drive with remapping) it complained about the geometry (32 heads is too many) but was able to figure out a geometry that it could live with. It is not obvious in disklabel that you have to Write your partitions before you can assign them. Neither is it obvious why this should be necessary. The docs briefly mention it. There was a random hanging problem if I tried to Assign before writing. Disklabel mistakenly had old partition information stuck in the tables. Partition information from before I ran fdisk on the disks. Confusing. I had to delete it before I could assign my partitions. (BTW, I wasn't concerned about keeping any old data on these disks.) Do disklabel and fdisk actually write anything to disk when you select Write? If not... then why does it require you to write? Otherwise, why is there a dialog after you select proceed that tells you you will wipe out your disks. If it has already written partition information you have already wiped out your disks. At the "Fdisk Disklabel Proceed" prompt I could never select proceed before doing a disklabel. Either there is a bug causing it to not read existing disklabels, or proceed should not be presented as an option. (I had to retry the boot disk from scratch several times due to problems with the net card.) The next problem I had was with the ed0 driver. I was planning on installing via ftp. My net card (WD8003E) worked fine under Linux, but I kept getting "ed0: device timeout" under FreeBSD. After hunting on the net via the freebsd homepage I was able to search the man pages and find docs on the ed0 errors. It was as I suspected -- the FreeBSD driver wasn't looking on the same IRQ as the Linux driver did. (I suspect the Linux driver hunts for the card on multiple IRQs, because I never had to specify where it was.) I don't have docs for the card, so I had to reboot several times while playing with the jumper. I didn't see documented anywhere where the driver expected the card to be -- it should be as part of the menu option when you're selecting it. The error messages for the various drivers should be a bit more accessible -- or maybe just stick the URL into the docs. If you are installing via the net, it prompts you for the FQDN and then it prompts you for the domain name. The domain name defaults to the same as the hostname. You should strip the first component. If installing via the net, and you run into problems, then you have to answer the net questions over and over again (should default to previous values). Since I was having problems with getting the net going, I wasn't selecting everything I wanted from the dist selection. I was only selecting bindist. Once I finally got it to work, I figured I could go back and run the install program again to install the other dists. But when I ran /stand/sysinstall it insisted that I disklabel again. (Which in and of itself seems silly -- it should at least read the existing disklabel.) It wasn't obvious to me how to ask it to install other dists. Maybe I missed something. Next I wanted to populate the system with popular utils. I tried to use the packages/ stuff from the ftp site, but it wouldn't run -- I figured there was some backwards incompatibility with the SNAP. So I tried to learn the ports system. The ports system is a GREAT idea. But, I couldn't figure out the "proper" way to populate /usr/ports. I tried just grabbing ports.tar.gz from one of the ftp sites, but (as you can guess) that tries to grab all of ports/distfiles! After about 30 minutes I wondered what could possibly be taking so long (the ports faq says there are only 10Mbish of ports files) so I did a zcat-tar on the file and noticed it was trying to grab the huge distfiles directory. Luckily for me it had already grabbed all the useful stuff. So I cancelled it and unpacked what I got, then cleaned out the distfiles directory. First package I tried to install was screen. Both ftp attempts failed to get the master source. I think perhaps there should be a single place where you can set a master list of ftp sites. Just trying freebsd.cdrom.com isn't enough -- since there are mirrors with all the distfiles. I eventually grabbed the source myself and stuck it in distfiles. Then screen built... but it doesn't work. It works fine if I run it under gdb however. What a bitch to debug ;) At this point it was 6am, and I figured my experience with FreeBSD was educational if anything :) I have reverted back to Linux for now. I hear you folks are planning 2.1 RSN, when it comes around I'll try this all again. [continued] So to install linux I ftp a bunch of crud to my machine running freebsd, I figure I'll copy it onto my dos partition. The machine doesn't have a dos partition yet, so I boot DOS and FDISK/FORMAT. Then I boot freebsd. Hmm, "man mount_msdos" directs me to "disklabel". But neither state that I absolutely cannot mount a partition which isn't mentioned in a disklabel. This seems like a really arbitrary restriction to me. Isn't /dev/wd0s2 the second slice on disk 0? That's where my dos partition is. But it didn't work. So I ran disklabel -e wd0 expecting to get that great graphical interface from the installation process. Boy was I wrong! Good thing I have half a brain, and good thing I had used up the rest of the disk for the dos partition. Otherwise I'm not sure how I would have calculated the shit "disklabel -e" wanted me to fill in. BTW, swapfiles (a la Linux) may not be the greatest w.r.t. performance, but on low diskspace machines they're a lifesaver. Besides, it seems like a waste of diskspace if you're sharing your machine between linux and freebsd to have to devote a partition to swapping in each OS. I'd rather stick a swapfile on a dos partition and share it between linux, os/2, and freebsd. (Too bad OS/2 is the only one that doesn't require some sort of special initialization for their swap files). Dean From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:34:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA24974 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:34:35 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24957 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:34:21 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA06570; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:34:07 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504242334.AAA06570@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:34:07 +0100 (BST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241931.MAA14200@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 24, 95 12:31:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1409 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jeffrey Hsu who said > > but there is a point in expanding the NEWS coverage.. > rememeber I was suggesting MAIL -> News and not visa-versa. > > Sorry, I wasn't explicit in my last mail message. We both agree on > expanding the news coverage. I want to go further and see the news > coverage subsume the mailing lists, but for the moment, I'd be > happy just to see the mail -> news gateway. Of course, I'd be happier > to see the news -> mail gateway too. Then I can unsubscribe to the mailing > lists and just read news. (Anyone who likes mail can still get their > quota of mail by staying on the mailing lists. Nothing in this proposal > changes the status quo for them.) > Well, if we setup the Follow-up and reply-to fields properly and you use a decent newsreader you should be able to just read the newsgroup and still be able to reply to the gated mail as if it was from a mail reader. Umm, I've only had two direct complaints and that was against a full gateway so I'd say the concensus is to actually do this. All we need now is a volunteer to do it. Learning about news gateways isn't currently high on my list of tasks :-) -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:35:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25121 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:35:35 -0700 Received: from MIT.EDU (SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.72.1.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25109 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:35:33 -0700 Received: from YAZ-PISTACHIO.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21557; Mon, 24 Apr 95 19:35:31 EDT Received: by yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA19381; Mon, 24 Apr 95 19:35:25 -0400 Message-Id: <9504242335.AA19381@yaz-pistachio.MIT.EDU> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:03:57 PDT." <27759.798714237@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:35:23 EDT From: Christopher Provenzano Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm looking over the sources here a little (I shouldn't, but I > couldn't help myself) and it looks like it's going to be a bit of a > bear. It uses threads pretty aggressively, manipulating thread stack > spaces and juggling their internal priorities in addition to all the > usual create/destroy/block thread ops. I haven't looked at pthreads > lately, but I'd say it'll have to be fairly capable to deal with the > demands made on it by Hot Java. I also don't know whether or not Java > assumes your libc to be thread safe, but I rather expect that it does. All this and more comes with the latest pthreads. > > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > porting of this to FreeBSD? I think it's going to be a post-2.1 > project, and something of a long one at that. It would make sense to > combine effort. Yes. > > Jordan CAP From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:51:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA28038 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:51:06 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA28016 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:51:02 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id QAA03566; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:51:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:51:00 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199504242351.QAA03566@violet.berkeley.edu> To: into@violet.berkeley.edu, looking@violet.berkeley.edu, now..hackers@FreeBSD.org, this@violet.berkeley.edu Subject: fyi - Im Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!biosci!internet!biosci!not-for-mail From: zibi@NMSU.EDU (Zbigniew Perlinski) Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.announce Subject: ANNOUNCE: BETA IXI Visual Tcl 1.0 Date: 24 Apr 1995 08:59:32 -0700 Organization: IXI Limited Lines: 73 Sender: daemon@net.bio.net Approved: usenet@net.bio.net Distribution: inet Message-ID: <9504241429.AA14751@alex.x.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net IXI Visual Tcl 1.0 technology for OSF/Motif development on SunOs and Solaris RISC Sparc stations is now freely available via anonymous ftp from IXI and SCO. An extension of the popular Tcl scripting language, IXI Visual Tcl supports rapid, easy-to-learn development of OSF/Motif tools and applications. IXI Visual Tcl is ideal for system administrators and software developers striving to provide their customers with a comprehensive graphical environment. IXI Visual Tcl is a multiplatform port of "SCO Visual Tcl 1.0" developed by The Santa Cruz Operation to provide a graphical user interface-building scripting environment for the new generation of SCO OpenServer systems management tools. SCO and IXI are making the Visual Tcl 1.0 technology freely-available via anonymous ftp described below. IXI Visual Tcl extends the Tcl 7.3 scripting enviornment with commands support OSF/Motif 1.2, as well as UNIX access and debugging commands provided by the TclX extensions. IXI Visual Tcl 1.0 is now available from the ftp site: ftp.sco.com via anonymous ftp: cd TLS mget tls074.* OR The SCO Visual Tcl Home Page at: http://www.sco.com/Products/vtcl/vtcl.html The official SCO Visual Tcl newsgroup is: biz.sco.vtcl However, this newsgroup will be replaced in the near future with the recently approved newsgroup: comp.sco.unix.programmer IXI Visual Tcl is ideal for - system administrators who would like to wrap Motif interfaces around UNIX commands, - hardware vendors who want to create Motif-based configuration and administrative interfaces, - software designers who want a flexible environment to quickly prototype easy-to-rework Motif application interfaces, and - software vendors who want to take advantage of "thin client" scripting to integrate their applications with Motif-compliant small-to-medium sized tools. Key Features of IXI Visual Tcl include... - DrawnList Widget (object browser similar to Microsoft File Manager) - Event-driven (callback) environment - Display engine for Motif 1.2 - Convenience Function Library - includes ComboBox, Spin support, and assorted widget combinations (e.g. text fields with labels or titles) - Motif geometry management (Forms, RowColumn and Bulletinboard) - Based on Public Domain U.C. Berkeley Tcl 7.3b - POSIX-specific and other tclX library extensions - e.g. fcntl, select, nice, kill, sockets, fmtclock, trace - Package library support, as well as vtcllib.a and header files for those wishing to extend the IXI Visual Tcl interpreter with C-based commands. Commercially supported IXI Visual Tcl is available from IXI Ltd as a part of a Premier Motif Development Pack. For additional information, send email to Zbigniew Perlinski, zibi@x.co.uk, or David Young, davidy@sco.com -- __ __ __ __ | |\ / /| | Zbigniew Perlinski Vision Park Email: zibi@x.co.uk | | \/ / | | Senior Software Cambridge UUCP : zibi@ixi.uucp | | / /\ | | Engineer CB4 4ZR Tel : +44 223 236 555 |__|/__/__\|__| IXI Limited United Kingdom Fax : +44 223 236 550 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 16:59:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA28679 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:59:03 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA28672 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:58:59 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:58:46 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15172; Tue, 25 Apr 95 09:58:36 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504242358.AA15172@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:58:35 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241931.MAA14200@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 24, 95 12:31:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2900 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey Hsu writes: > > but there is a point in expanding the NEWS coverage.. > rememeber I was suggesting MAIL -> News and not visa-versa. > > Sorry, I wasn't explicit in my last mail message. We both agree on > expanding the news coverage. I want to go further and see the news > coverage subsume the mailing lists, but for the moment, I'd be > happy just to see the mail -> news gateway. Of course, I'd be happier > to see the news -> mail gateway too. Then I can unsubscribe to the mailing > lists and just read news. (Anyone who likes mail can still get their > quota of mail by staying on the mailing lists. Nothing in this proposal > changes the status quo for them.) Are you sure?? Doesn't the news -> mail gateway immediately bombard those on the mailing lists with a whole lot more traffic?? It seems to me that one of the problems is volume of newbie traffic and FAQs. If FreeBSD is going to increase its market share then we need newbies (as well as converts). What do people think of this suggestion:- I think there are probably a large number of `semi-skilled' users (like myself) who love FreeBSD and have developed to the point of having no real problems with basic installation and configuration, kernel re-building, etc. We `lurk' on these lists but for whatever reason only occasionally enter the discussion or try to help. The `power' developers (and I'm not going to name any names -- we all know who you are) need to be freed from having overflowing mailboxes. If every `lurker' agreed to `adopt a newbie' and hold his/her hand until he/she got running, that should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. However, to receive this service, each newbie would have to agree to themselves `adopting a newbie' once they had got up and running (say 1-2 months after starting). This service could be advertised in news and some willing (?) person could keep a register of both `helpers' and newbies and allocate each newbie to an available helper. After a month or two, the newbie then gets transferred to the `helper' list which guarantees an automatically growing list of helpers. If a newbie asks a helper a question that the helper can't handle, then and *only* then does that question get passed onto the appropriate mailing list. The above is only a quick sketch of the idea. I'm sure others will find flaws or think of improvements. Apart from a few scripts, I have no programming skills. However I would really like to ease the burden on those who are `at the coal face' and it seems to me that some sort of `one to one' relationship with a newbie is the best way I can help. What do others think?? Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 17:00:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA28862 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:00:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA28844 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:00:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 16:22:04 PDT." <199504242322.QAA03144@ref.tfs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:00:33 -0700 Message-ID: <28843.798768033@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't understand how Linux has such a strong following at CAL :( > > Jordan, > were these the people you were talking too? No, but I was thinking of going by and talking to them though.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 17:05:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA29403 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:05:53 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29385 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:05:48 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id SAA06477; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:10:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:10:00 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504250010.SAA06477@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Gary Roberts "Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups" (Apr 25, 9:58am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Gary Roberts , hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If every `lurker' agreed to > `adopt a newbie' and hold his/her hand until he/she got running, that > should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by > transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. *PLEASE* start doing this yesterday. :-) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 17:22:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA00824 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:22:47 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA00812 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:22:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 09:58:35 +1000." <9504242358.AA15172@wcs.uq.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:22:45 -0700 Message-ID: <811.798769365@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think there are probably a large number of `semi-skilled' users (like > myself) who love FreeBSD and have developed to the point of having no > real problems with basic installation and configuration, kernel > re-building, etc. We `lurk' on these lists but for whatever reason only > occasionally enter the discussion or try to help. The `power' developers > (and I'm not going to name any names -- we all know who you are) need to be > freed from having overflowing mailboxes. If every `lurker' agreed to > `adopt a newbie' and hold his/her hand until he/she got running, that > should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by > transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. However, If you manage to make this go, you have my personal nomination for the Nobel peace prize. That's all I'm going to say about it! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 17:46:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA01908 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:46:08 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01879 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:46:05 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA25748; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:43:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-Reply-To: <199504241904.MAA12947@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Jeffrey Hsu wrote: > Many Linux friends I know have > stopped reading the *linux newsgroups because of the S/N ratio. > > Many FreeBSD friends I know have stopped reading the FreeBSD lists because > of the S/N ratio and the sheer volume of mail. This includes dedicated > FreeBSD diehards. Certainly, I no longer tell anyone new to subscribe to > the FreeBSD mailing lists, because I know the volume will overwhelm them. > When old members have to unsubscribe to the mailing lists and new members > can't join, then you know something is definitely wrong. The current > mailing list status quo is untenable. > I think its important to increase the newsgroup traffic presense on the net. In terms of volume, some happy level will be achieved, but in general with threading in newsgroups, it would be much easier to follow what is going on. The only problem would be cross-posting between newsgroups and listserv. The only reason I think its so important all of a sudden is that I was just hired as a consultant on a technical proposal paper comparing an installation of free unix' on intel machines. The original commitee determined that Linux had a better (not necessarily _more_) support simply because there were more news groups carried on the one NNTP server they were using. I showed them my 6 megs of listserv traffic from the last two or so weeks and changed their mind. "Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean its there." The only problem I can see with increasing the popularity of FreeBSD worldwide is that this friendly-repoire with the core team members [i.e. we hear what they hear, see what they see, and find out whats happening directly from their keyboard] might disappear if suddenly 100x more people start flooding the newsgroups or list server. Maybe I'm a doom and gloom type. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 17:50:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA02118 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:50:08 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02112 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:50:06 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA25784; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:47:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:47:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Andreas Klemm cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-Reply-To: <199504231819.UAA06506@knobel.GUN.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > I'd love to see a stable 2.1, too. I love the idea to bring out an > interim version earlier, because 2.0 had it's flaws. But then I'd > recommend to take the needed time, to make 2.1 as good as you are all > telling us since months. > > I think everybody has the amount of understanding, that a 2.1 quality > release takes a certain amount of time, after adding so much new features. > > So make a better 2.0 release with important bugfixes and a glimpse of 2.1 > and please take the necessary time, to make a real nice 2.1. > > Otherwise it could happen, that we see a 2.1.5, soon, because you made > it in a hurry. > I have to agree. The SNAP releases are great to remind people development is still proceeding, and moving well. Its better to not set a deadline for perfection and let it slide, or worse rush it. If 2.1 can be the new standard in stability for FreeBSD, that will save EVERYONE [including the CoreTeam] a lot of energy because then enhancements only need to be made; one doesn't have to worry about bugs in the underlying code. IMO. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 18:02:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA02821 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:02:26 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA02810 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:02:19 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:01:43 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15300; Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:01:26 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250101.AA15300@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:01:25 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <811.798769365@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 05:22:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2406 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > ... If every `lurker' agreed to > > `adopt a newbie' and hold his/her hand until he/she got running, that > > should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by > > transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. However, > > If you manage to make this go, you have my personal nomination for the ... OK, having been stupid enough to put my hand up in the first place, here is what I see myself being able to do. 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you are willing to help, I would maintain your details on a centralised list. You would only get one newbie at a time unless you agreed to take more. You don't have to be a `lurker', just willing to `adopt a newbie'. (I've already put Terry down for 50. With his volume of output he should easily be able to handle that number :-> ;-> :->.) (Although with his 20% `confusion' factor [according to Julian was it??] maybe that isn't such a good idea -- it'd probably be 90% with newbies :->.) All jokes aside, I just wanted to make it clear that the helpers list would be very much open to all and not limited to one newbie at a time. 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would be posted say once a month (or whatever). 3. I would receive all requests from newbies and send them a standard acknowledgement, pointing out that their commitment would be to take on a newbie themselves at the end of their `hand-holding' period. If they agreed to the conditions, I would allocate them to a helper. 4. At the end of the hand-holding period (how long do people feel this should be??) the newbie name would be transferred automatically to the bottom of the helper list and they would be automatically given the next newbie. 5. Helpers can withdraw at any time *after* handling 1 newbie. This would be the basic minimum commitment of a helper/ex-newbie. 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could come up with some automated scheme to handle it. This is all just `off the top of my head' at the moment. Please feedback suggestions/comments as you see fit. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 18:46:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA05004 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:46:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04997 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:46:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:01:25 +1000." <9504250101.AA15300@wcs.uq.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4996.798774369@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you > are willing to help, I would maintain your details on a centralised list. > You would only get one newbie at a time unless you agreed to take more. > You don't have to be a `lurker', just willing to `adopt a newbie'. > (I've already put Terry down for 50. With his volume of output he > should easily be able to handle that number :-> ;-> :->.) (Although > with his 20% `confusion' factor [according to Julian was it??] maybe > that isn't such a good idea -- it'd probably be 90% with newbies :->.) This sounds very good. OK, not being one to let a good offer like this go unpunished, I've just created: new-users@FreeBSD.org It's also aliased to new-user, newbies & newbie, just to catch all the possible permutations.. :-) Since `newbie' has negative connotations, I don't expect we'll be using or calling the mailing list by that name very much (if at all). This alias points straight to Gary. Should a `grants committee' be formed at some point, then Gary can have me turn this into a real mailing list. > 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would > be posted say once a month (or whatever). Once a month would be excellent. I recommend both announce@FreeBSD.org and comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce. > 3. I would receive all requests from newbies and send them a standard > acknowledgement, pointing out that their commitment would be to take > on a newbie themselves at the end of their `hand-holding' period. > If they agreed to the conditions, I would allocate them to a helper. Sounds just great! At this point you have your alias, now you just need to put the words together! :-) When you do, feel free to send mail to announce. Peter da Silva will pick the announcement off the list and also send it on to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd. > 4. At the end of the hand-holding period (how long do people feel this > should be??) the newbie name would be transferred automatically to > the bottom of the helper list and they would be automatically given > the next newbie. I think this should only happen once a newbie has truly _in their own mind_ made the transition to `helper' status and actually really wants to help. Most folks will find the pay-back nature of the arrangement only natural and fair, but those that don't shouldn't be forced into it - they'll only provide bad support for some other poor new newbie! > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. Joerg's a PERL master - ask him! ;-) Seriously - this sounds like a great idea and a great service, which is why I'm pushing ahead on it so quickly. David Greenman (who's reading over my shoulder) thinks so too. Let's do it! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:10:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA05911 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:10:37 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05904 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:10:31 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA03705; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:10:24 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250210.TAA03705@ref.tfs.com> Subject: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install To: dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca (Dean Gaudet) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504242325.QAA17567@grolsch.cs.ubc.ca> from "Dean Gaudet" at Apr 24, 95 04:25:41 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2854 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well thank you for this... firstly a note to say that there is work underway to fix many of these things.. I have to agree that the install for 2.0 was the worst that I have ever seen, (or written) mainly because it wouldn't let experienced users over-ride it when it wanted to do the wrong thing. The install with the SNAPs is basically the 2.0 install.. 2.1 should be better anyway, this is the subject of on-going improvement, but it seems that you fell foul of just about ALL the problems I've seen at various times.. To recap: Ok, so Who is doing the new install....? Can some-one who knows, answer these points as to whether they are addressed in the new install.. if they are not, I may try to look at them myself..... julian > 1/ Bindist is FAR too big, and should be broken down to a Base, Net, Devel, and Extended set. I will say however that it's AMAZING how usable the system is after installing just the second floppy.. 2/ Boot floppy wouldn't work with remmapped bios.. not sure where we should look for that.. I don't understand the remapping very well. It is possible that FBSD could use the remapped geometry if you'd just typed it in at teh right time.. {?} 3/ we need to be able to create other partition types. 4/ The disklabel part of the install is totally cryptic and you have to know exactly what the program is doing before you have a prayer of running it.. e.g. write disklabel before assign. 5/ disklabel had old info from before teh new fdisk (I understand how this happens, but we should look at how to fix that when we re-write the MBD...(invalidate the label?)) 6/ It should be possible to proceed without re-disklabelling your disks DAMMIT! I understand that you may need to 'assign' them again as this info is not written to disk yet. You should have booted the kernel using the -c option which would have dynamically reconfigured the kernel to suit your cards. 7/ In the initial install boot, the -c option should be COMPULSORY or at least better publisised (It is, but not well) 8/ better handling of domain name and host name. 9/ Net values should default to previous values. 10/ sysinstall should be runnable after setup, so that you can install other packages as needed. 11/ packages stuff is totally cryptic. there is no good documentation IN THE NORMAL PLACES as to what the f*ck to DO with the packages This information needs to be plastered EVERYWHERE. > 12/ screen failed (separate problem) > [...] user goes and installs LINUX > > [continued] > 13/ Slice code is pooly documented .. docs still refer to disklabel for DOS partitions. > in a disklabel. This seems like a really arbitrary restriction to me. > Isn't /dev/wd0s2 the second slice on disk 0? No, wd0s1 is..... 0,1,2,3 right? > 14/ swap-files are real good when the install is wrong..... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:22:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06488 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:22:59 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06481 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:22:53 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA03771; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:22:48 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250222.TAA03771@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250210.TAA03705@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 24, 95 07:10:24 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2298 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, so Who is doing the new install....? Jordan, Poul-Henning and a cast of several... > 1/ Bindist is FAR too big, and should be broken down to > a Base, Net, Devel, and Extended set. > I will say however that it's AMAZING how usable the system is > after installing just the second floppy.. No plans presently. Easy to do, but consensus on core against at last poll. > 2/ Boot floppy wouldn't work with remmapped bios.. > not sure where we should look for that.. I don't understand > the remapping very well. > It is possible that FBSD could use the remapped geometry > if you'd just typed it in at teh right time.. {?} We hope to bag this one for 2.1. PHK is working on it. "Ontrack" seems to work, has yet to confirm IBM bioses and others that remap on their own. > 3/ we need to be able to create other partition types. no. It may be handy to be able to, but we don't >need< it. > 4/ The disklabel part of the install is totally cryptic > and you have to know exactly what the program is doing before you > have a prayer of running it.. e.g. write disklabel before assign. being totally rewritten. GUI part is with Jordan. > 5/ disklabel had old info from before teh new fdisk > (I understand how this happens, but we should look at how to > fix that when we re-write the MBD...(invalidate the label?)) hopefully fixed for 2.1. > 6/ It should be possible to proceed without re-disklabelling > your disks DAMMIT! > I understand that you may need to 'assign' them again as this info > is not written to disk yet. it is. Pilot error. I do this all the time. > 7/ In the initial install boot, the -c option should be COMPULSORY > or at least better publisised (It is, but not well) Hmmm maybe. > 13/ Slice code is pooly documented .. docs still refer to disklabel for > DOS partitions. In the works these days. > > in a disklabel. This seems like a really arbitrary restriction to me. > > Isn't /dev/wd0s2 the second slice on disk 0? > No, wd0s1 is..... 0,1,2,3 right? No wd0s[1-4], wd0s0 is "compatibility slice" ie first type 0xa5 found, slice 5... are dos extended slices. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:24:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06522 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:24:14 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06505 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:24:04 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA09104; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:24:48 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504250224.DAA09104@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: nc@ain.charm.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:24:48 +0100 (BST) Cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Apr 24, 95 08:43:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1073 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Network Coordinator who said > > > The only problem I can see with increasing the popularity of FreeBSD > worldwide is that this friendly-repoire with the core team members [i.e. > we hear what they hear, see what they see, and find out whats happening > directly from their keyboard] might disappear if suddenly 100x more > people start flooding the newsgroups or list server. > > Maybe I'm a doom and gloom type. Well, the core team all hang out on -current so you can always catch our ear there if the other lists become too busy. I think at least a few of us will stay on all the lists whatever happens, I know I will. I think the flood will actually be to the newsgroups anyway, they'll suddenly become much busier which is what I think most of us want, I doubt the lists will get significantly busier. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:27:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06600 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:27:09 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06584 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:27:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:27:04 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504250227.TAA06584@freefall.cdrom.com> To: julian Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) Cc: hackers Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's worse than that. Read http://www.caldera.com. Willow software is just a small part of caldera. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:32:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06885 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:32:22 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06872 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:32:11 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA03838; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:32:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250232.TAA03838@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au (Gary Roberts) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504250101.AA15300@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 25, 95 11:01:25 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2985 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you The one thing I've dicovered about usenet.. Quantity counts.. many people only read a percentage of all messages. you need to post your request for assistants and your notice for newbies, once a week at least..... I've been thinking about this myself... If we can make this work it'll be really quite a turing point in FreeBSD's history.. > All jokes aside, I just wanted to make it clear that the helpers list > would be very much open to all and not limited to one newbie at a time. > > 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would > be posted say once a month (or whatever). MORE MORE > > 3. I would receive all requests from newbies and send them a standard > acknowledgement, pointing out that their commitment would be to take > on a newbie themselves at the end of their `hand-holding' period. > If they agreed to the conditions, I would allocate them to a helper. I think 'commitment' is too strong a word.. and allow them to back out if they think they don't know enough..... > > 4. At the end of the hand-holding period (how long do people feel this > should be??) the newbie name would be transferred automatically to > the bottom of the helper list and they would be automatically given > the next newbie. not automatically... automatically send email asking that they volunteer.... :) > > 5. Helpers can withdraw at any time *after* handling 1 newbie. This > would be the basic minimum commitment of a helper/ex-newbie. helpers should be allowed to sign up to the "helper needs trainer-wheels" helper-helper list. :) > > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. hmm sounds like an ideal script application to me.... The main thing I want to say is that you are going to have to make a LOT OF NOISE on usenet.. people need to see this sort of thing 3 or four times before they repond (or volunteer) In conjunction with the gating question, I think this is a step in teh right direction.. gating 'questions' to USENET is vitally important, and I think gating hackers ONE WAY (i.e not saying where it came from) is also important so people can see what advanced developers are working on.. (and they can tell their friends etc.) this is Very Important! > > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. "don't you , just don't you worry yourself about THAT" julian +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@ref.tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:39:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07170 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:20 -0700 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA07163 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:17 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQymxu13350; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:39:09 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA04923 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for uunet!freebsd.org!hackers); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:43:24 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:39 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0s3ZS9-0004voC; Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:30 CDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:30 CDT To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Mon Apr 24 1995, 20:30:12 CDT Subject: Someone wanted info on Xircom adapters? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I really wasn't paying a lot of attention, but it seemed there was some traffic about ten days ago about obtaining programming information on the Xircom network adapters. If that was the topic, please send me some mail. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"A what?" ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:39:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07191 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:44 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07177 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:41 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504250239.TAA07177@freefall.cdrom.com> To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > OK, having been stupid enough to put my hand up in the first place, here > is what I see myself being able to do. > 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you > 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would > 3. I would receive all requests from newbies and send them a standard > 4. At the end of the hand-holding period (how long do people feel this > 5. Helpers can withdraw at any time *after* handling 1 newbie. This > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. Do you have any idea how many 100s of CDROMs WC ships every week? How many of these newbies do you think you're going to be able to handle manually? Since most of these newbie problems will be the same, a newbie FAQ, periodically broadcast to the newsgroup, would be a much more effective solution. You could compile the info for this FAQ from old list mail and newsgroups questions. Our current collection of FAQs should also help. People who've just helped a newbie with a new problem could send a short writeup to you for inclusion in the newbie FAQ. This way, you could reach thousands and thousands of newbie who see the FAQ on the newsgroup all at once rather than individually. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:39:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07193 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:44 -0700 Received: from ast.com (irvine.ast.com [165.164.128.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA07178 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:39:41 -0700 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA04927 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:43:25 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:39 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0s3ZdD-0004vvC; Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:41 CDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 20:41 CDT To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Mon Apr 24 1995, 20:41:38 CDT Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [1]From: Peter da Silva [1]If there is a guaranteed unique ID you can get from the CDROM, you can [1]use that to maintain multiple mount structures in memory, and prompt the [1]user for the appropriate disc when necessary. [1] [1]If the prompt is vectored through a program (and it would pretty much have [1]to be), you could use that to control a jukebox as well. CDs have a field for the UPC data, which should be unique. However there are two problems (at least): 1. Not everybody fills in the field, including many big record companies. (Usually its because the UPC hasn't been assigned by the time the disc is mastered or they get in a hurry, it was dark, etc.) Write-once discs almost never have a valid UPC field and some of the mastering software doesn't even give you the chance to fill it in. 2. Not all CD-ROM drives (including SCSI models) implement a command that delivers the UPC field. That is probably why the CD-DA (audio) player app that Microsoft ships used to read the length information for each track from the TOC and create a hash from it. That was then used to "recognize" the disc being re-inserted so that it could recall preferences, tracks-to-skip, etc. This scheme is reasonably foolproof, providing the disc isn't remastered by a different vendor who gets the timing different on any track on the disc AND there isn't another disc that has the same number of tracks and length. Frank Durda IV |"Where do you want to go today? or uhclem%nemesis@fw.ast.com (Fastest Route)| Wherever Microsoft tells you ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | to." - TM (C) 1994 Madsoft. ...decvax!fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 19:47:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07477 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:47:09 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA07441 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:46:39 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA26942; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:46:53 +0800 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:46:53 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: core@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: E-mail/phone support for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <18149.798295438@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Support Mgr[10]: vacant (possibly PAY someone) [...] > [10]. Handles technical support questions over the phone and in email. > Makes sure that customer complaints are dealt with in a timely > fashion. Since this is a horrible job, we probably should pay someone > to do it as soon as that's possible. One person to handle worldwide phone and e-mail support for FreeBSD in a timely fashion? You must be joking. If you're not, then FreeBSD's user base is a lot smaller than I thought. I like the idea, but I can't see hiring one person as being an effective solution. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:03:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA08228 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:03:40 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA08219 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:03:34 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:03:08 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15637; Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:02:57 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250302.AA15637@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:02:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <4996.798774369@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 06:46:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3026 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > OK, not being one to let a good offer like this go unpunished, I've > just created: > > new-users@FreeBSD.org > > It's also aliased to new-user, newbies & newbie, just to catch all the > possible permutations.. :-) Since `newbie' has negative connotations, > I don't expect we'll be using or calling the mailing list by that name > very much (if at all). > > This alias points straight to Gary. Should a `grants committee' be > formed at some point, then Gary can have me turn this into a real > mailing list. OK, fine. I assume this means that willing helpers *and* helpees will both just send mail to new-users and all this mail lands on me. So far no problem yet (sez he with a hint of trepidation in his voice :->.). > I recommend both announce@FreeBSD.org and comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce. I'm working on an announcement at the moment. I'll send it to you for final vetting. I'll expect someone (other than myself) to take final responsibility for the content of that message. > I think this should only happen once a newbie has truly _in their own mind_ > made the transition to `helper' status and actually really wants to help. > Most folks will find the pay-back nature of the arrangement only natural > and fair, but those that don't shouldn't be forced into it - they'll only > provide bad support for some other poor new newbie! OK, I hear what you are saying and I do agree. I'm a strong believer in the principle that `assisting others is the best way to learn something yourself'. I want the `helpees' to really feel an obligation to contribute and when they do they'll derive additional benefit for themselves anyway. There is always going to be a shortage of helpers and I do want to capitalise on that `good feeling' that should result from being given `personalised' help. If you think about it, it's just like a chain letter and we don't want breaks in the chain :->. So do we just remind helpees that when they feel _comfortable_ about it they will be followed up and asked to take on another new user? > > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. > > Joerg's a PERL master - ask him! ;-) I'll start `by hand' but if anyone volunteers to automate it, or has ideas for automation, I certainly won't turn you away. > Seriously - this sounds like a great idea and a great service, which is > why I'm pushing ahead on it so quickly. David Greenman (who's reading over > my shoulder) thinks so too. Let's do it! Yeah, so far I'm willing to try. I'll wait just a bit to see what other reactions come to the surface. While I'm waiting, if anyone is willing to `adopt a newbie', just drop me a short note. I've just cleared 100meg on my disk to receive the flood of applications :->. > Jordan Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:09:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA08418 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:22 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08403 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:19 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04371; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:07 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250309.UAA04371@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au (Gary Roberts) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504250302.AA15637@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 25, 95 01:02:56 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 530 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Gary, > Yeah, so far I'm willing to try. I'll wait just a bit to see what other > reactions come to the surface. While I'm waiting, if anyone is willing > to `adopt a newbie', just drop me a short note. I've just cleared 100meg > on my disk to receive the flood of applications :->. Thanks for boldly going where nobody wanted to go before. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:09:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA08467 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:46 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08459 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:09:41 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA06914; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:14:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:14:00 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504250314.VAA06914@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install In-Reply-To: <199504250222.TAA03771@ref.tfs.com> References: <199504250210.TAA03705@ref.tfs.com> <199504250222.TAA03771@ref.tfs.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 1/ Bindist is FAR too big, and should be broken down to > > a Base, Net, Devel, and Extended set. > > I will say however that it's AMAZING how usable the system is > > after installing just the second floppy.. > No plans presently. Easy to do, but consensus on core against at last > poll. Huh? I remember no such poll, and have constantly pushed for breaking it up. The reason it never happened in the past was for technical reasons. If those reasons no longer exist, *please* break the release into chunks. > > 3/ we need to be able to create other partition types. > no. It may be handy to be able to, but we don't >need< it. Agreed. Any OS you need to install can create it's own partition. No OS I know has the ability to create other partition types, although add-on software allows you to do this. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:11:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA08669 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:11:47 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08662 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:11:44 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04477; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:11:30 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250311.UAA04477@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250314.VAA06914@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 24, 95 09:14:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 915 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 1/ Bindist is FAR too big, and should be broken down to > > > a Base, Net, Devel, and Extended set. > > > I will say however that it's AMAZING how usable the system is > > > after installing just the second floppy.. > > > No plans presently. Easy to do, but consensus on core against at last > > poll. > > Huh? I remember no such poll, and have constantly pushed for breaking > it up. The reason it never happened in the past was for technical > reasons. If those reasons no longer exist, *please* break the release > into chunks. Well, you need to pay more attention then. Suggest you send us lists of filenames you want to more from bindist, with an argument why, and why it will not be a problem for us to do so. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:15:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA08936 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:15:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA08930 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:15:02 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04592 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:15:02 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250315.UAA04592@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Has anybody tried FreeBSD on NexGen 586 CPU ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 315 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm considering buying a NexGen 586 motherboard. Has anybody tried FreeBSD on one of those ? How does it perform ? Any Problems ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:17:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09022 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:17:17 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09012 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:17:15 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id XAA29418; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:11:37 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:11:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Hot Java.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504242053.WAA04525@jette.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > > porting of this to FreeBSD? > > Just for amusement: `Java' (actually written as `Jawa') is a Czech > motorcycle brand. :-) [I remember them as being way noisy ones, > but i guess this might have changed meanwhile. Someone out there > in .cz listening here?] two cylinder, two stroke, 350cc(?), uses oil in the fork legs (of course) but seems to be shipped without--no oil. some people forget that quirk and destroy the fork in a few weeks of riding. ;(( jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09329 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:22:12 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09307 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:22:01 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id XAA29440; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:17:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, Jordan K Hubbard , phk@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504242148.PAA05858@trout.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > > > Has anyone considered that digesting the lists would both reduce > > the mail load and reduce the inbox load for people? It would also > > reduce the number of connections people would have to deal with > > coming into their box (If they pay that way). > > On that note, it would be trivial to make a digested version of the > mailing list available. Majordomo is already setup to do it, though the > postmaster would need to set it up. I had one working on my box before > I did the majordomo security upgrade on freefall. creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? terry wants questions digested. any other lists people want digested? > > > CV: the Samba list > > > > Of course, a potential missing piece is the exploder you'd want to > > use so that reply messages didn't reference digest subjects instead > > of referencing the actual subject of the message in the digest being > > responded to. > > Procmail can auto-explode email automatically, but it requires that > folks install it or something other mail-exploder. > > > Also like the Samba list, this would not have to be mandatory -- you > > could be on either a direct repeat or a digest repeat (I'm on the digest > > repeat for the samba, but would want to stay on the regular lists for > > most of the FreeBSD lists I'm on, except questions, where it would > > be easier to batch-answer problems). > > I would recommend that it be a completely separate mailing list. > > > Nate > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:24:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09426 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:24:14 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09419 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:24:12 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA09330; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:25:18 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504250325.EAA09330@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:25:17 +0100 (BST) Cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <4996.798774369@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 06:46:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 591 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would > > be posted say once a month (or whatever). > > Once a month would be excellent. > I recommend both announce@FreeBSD.org and comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce. Hey, we should gateway these :-) I like the idea too, good luck. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:25:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09494 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09488 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:05 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04715; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250325.UAA04715@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250311.UAA04477@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 24, 95 08:11:28 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 985 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I vote for chunks! > > > > > 1/ Bindist is FAR too big, and should be broken down to > > > > a Base, Net, Devel, and Extended set. > > > > I will say however that it's AMAZING how usable the system is > > > > after installing just the second floppy.. > > > > > No plans presently. Easy to do, but consensus on core against at last > > > poll. > > > > Huh? I remember no such poll, and have constantly pushed for breaking > > it up. The reason it never happened in the past was for technical > > reasons. If those reasons no longer exist, *please* break the release > > into chunks. > > Well, you need to pay more attention then. > > Suggest you send us lists of filenames you want to more from bindist, > with an argument why, and why it will not be a problem for us to do so. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' > => 'no rude people are relevant' > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:25:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09553 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:54 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09543 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:25:49 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id XAA29668; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:20:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: Paul Richards cc: Jeffrey Hsu , julian@ref.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504242334.AAA06570@isl.cf.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Paul Richards wrote: > Umm, I've only had two direct complaints and that was against a full > gateway so I'd say the concensus is to actually do this. All we need now > is a volunteer to do it. Learning about news gateways isn't currently high > on my list of tasks :-) so what good news gate software is there? any isp's out there use that kinda thing? Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:28:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09648 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:28:24 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09634 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:28:21 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA04756; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:27:57 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250327.UAA04756@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, phk@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 24, 95 11:17:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 340 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on > the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? If there is a market, sell it! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:31:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09751 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:31:20 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA09744 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:31:17 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:30:47 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15713; Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:30:34 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250330.AA15713@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:30:33 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250232.TAA03838@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 24, 95 07:31:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2219 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you > The one thing I've dicovered about usenet.. > Quantity counts.. many people only read a percentage of all messages. > you need to post your request for assistants and your notice for newbies, > once a week at least..... I'd rather start slowly and build up when someone automates the process. I'm very conscious of a flood of new-user requests for help and I'm only able to make a small dint in that number on my own. I'm really trying to get something started since I'm sick of reading about how many more Linux users there are, etc, etc... > > acknowledgement, pointing out that their commitment would be to take > I think 'commitment' is too strong a word.. and allow them to > back out if they think they don't know enough..... Agreed. > > the bottom of the helper list and they would be automatically given > > the next newbie. > not automatically... > automatically send email asking that they volunteer.... :) Agreed. > helpers should be allowed to sign up to the "helper needs trainer-wheels" > helper-helper list. :) Very true -- I take it you're running that list :->. > > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. > hmm sounds like an ideal script application to me.... > The main thing I want to say is that you are going to have to make a > LOT OF NOISE on usenet.. > people need to see this sort of thing 3 or four times before they > repond (or volunteer) I'm certain I'll get `snowed under' without `LOT OF NOISE' anyway. > > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > "don't you , just don't you worry yourself about THAT" Only an Aussie (or someone well versed in Queensland politics) would understand the significance of this little gem. Don't ask me to explain -- I flatly refuse. Pester Julian :->. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:35:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09948 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:35:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA09937 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:35:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 19:27:04 PDT." <199504250227.TAA06584@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:35:23 -0700 Message-ID: <9934.798780923@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's worse than that. Read http://www.caldera.com. Willow software is > just a small part of caldera. And check out that contrib list! http://www.caldera.com./credits.html What do we need to do to the contrib file to SGML-ify it and get something similar? We won't get descriptions from everyone, but if we can identify most of the principle players by description-of-contribution and phone number then that will be a good thing! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:44:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA10707 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:44:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA10697 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:44:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: core@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: E-mail/phone support for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 10:46:53 +0800." Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:44:38 -0700 Message-ID: <10693.798781478@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 19 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Support Mgr[10]: vacant (possibly PAY someone) > [...] > > [10]. Handles technical support questions over the phone and in email. > > Makes sure that customer complaints are dealt with in a timely > > fashion. Since this is a horrible job, we probably should pay someon e > > to do it as soon as that's possible. > > One person to handle worldwide phone and e-mail support for > FreeBSD in a timely fashion? You must be joking. If you're not, then > FreeBSD's user base is a lot smaller than I thought. I like the idea, > but I can't see hiring one person as being an effective solution. They would do for a start. I think you miscalculate the percentage of user base that actually calls for tech support. Linux is huge, and we only get between 30 and 40 calls a day.. One person full-time can easily handle that and we're nowhere near as big as Linux. This goes double if they also put some time into implementing better mail robots, an answers-by-FAX system, a more usable WWW based FAQ, etc. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:45:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA10821 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:45:44 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA10815 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:45:41 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id XAA00335; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:41:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Gary Roberts , Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <811.798769365@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I think there are probably a large number of `semi-skilled' users (like > > myself) who love FreeBSD and have developed to the point of having no > > real problems with basic installation and configuration, kernel [snip] > > should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by > > transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. However, > > If you manage to make this go, you have my personal nomination for the > Nobel peace prize. That's all I'm going to say about it! :-) Gary, great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let it rip. command action ------------------------------- subscribe mentors register yourself as a person willing to adopt new users of FreeBSD unsubscribe mentors --ahhhhh....no more please. adopt iamlost@where.am.i adopt this poor soul, all his mail to hackers and others gets routed to you! what about questions (or is this just crazy?) disown iamlost@where.am.i he has learned enough not to ask the 3c509 -link2 flag question. let him have direct access to the lists again. subscribe newusers help me please, i just got my cdrom and i cant get my 3c509 to work unsubscribe newusers hey man--back off, i know this thing, give me some elbow room here. so you offer help by joining mentors, adopt newbies till you reach your limit then unusbscribe from mentors. release (disown) newbies when they are ready to stand on their own more or less. an unhappy newbie that does not like his mentor still send to questions. and request adoption or subscribe newusers and hope someone will pick him up. cron each night (week?) matches newbies and mentors, giving each mentor 1 newbie and removing that newbie from the newusers lists. mail is sent to both the mentor and the newbie to introduce them to each other. what do you think, gary? this the kinda thing? jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:49:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA10914 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:49:32 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA10907 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:49:28 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:49:22 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15765; Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:49:08 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250349.AA15765@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:49:07 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250239.TAA07177@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 24, 95 07:39:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2153 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeffrey Hsu writes: > > OK, having been stupid enough to put my hand up in the first place, here > > is what I see myself being able to do. > Do you have any idea how many 100s of CDROMs WC ships every week? How Actually yes, I have a pretty good idea. Blind Freddie would understand that WC would not be able to continue with the excellent support for FreeBSD if it were *not* selling *lots* of CDs. > many of these newbies do you think you're going to be able to handle > manually? Enough to hopefully make a small difference. If nobody at least *tries* to make a difference, we may as well all go and join the Linux camp. I happen to vastly prefer FreeBSD and I'd like to try to help ... > Since most of these newbie problems will be the same, a newbie FAQ, What I'm trying to do is in *addition* to the FAQ mechanism. Others working on FAQs aren't going to be affected by what I'm attempting. My perception (correct me if I'm wrong) is that many people don't take the trouble to read FAQs, READMEs, INSTALL_NOTES, etc and just blaze away with questions anyway which swamp the developers. They do send e-mail or post to newsgroups so I imagine they would be mightily impressed to receive personalised assistance from a dedicated helper. Hopefully, the *committed* user base thereby grows and the whole process eventually snowballs -- and we catch up and surpass Linux :->. > periodically broadcast to the newsgroup, would be a much more effective > solution. You could compile the info for this FAQ from old > list mail and newsgroups questions. Our current collection of FAQs > should also help. People who've just helped a newbie with a new problem > could send a short writeup to you for inclusion in the newbie FAQ. > > This way, you could reach thousands and thousands of newbie who see > the FAQ on the newsgroup all at once rather than individually. Yeah, but as they say "Nothing engenders brand loyalty more than good, old-fashioned, personalised service". Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:54:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA11045 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:54:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA11035 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:54:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:02:56 +1000." <9504250302.AA15637@wcs.uq.edu.au> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:54:17 -0700 Message-ID: <11034.798782057@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm working on an announcement at the moment. I'll send it to you for > final vetting. I'll expect someone (other than myself) to take final > responsibility for the content of that message. I'll do the final editing and take responsibility - no sweat. > So do we just remind helpees that when they feel _comfortable_ about it > they will be followed up and asked to take on another new user? Essentially, yes. You'll be basically making an appeal to everyone's good nature and _strongly suggesting_ that people who've enjoyed the benefits of the service contribute something at some point. Sort of like the blood banks do. Not that I'm sure I like that particular simile.. :-) I'd even go one step further and suggest that you can even do this via some sort of mail rendevous system that tracks when a question has gone unanswered for some time - this is generally done by imbeding a "converstation ID" in the message that's generated when the newbie is first assigned to an answerer. If you detect that no response has been generated in hours, you automatically send it on to the next person in the helpers queue. This is exactly how "The USENET Oracle" works, incidently (and I challenge anyone here to identify any of the 3 of my contributions that made it into the Oracularities.. :-) [Except you, Michael! :)] > I'll start `by hand' but if anyone volunteers to automate it, or has ideas > for automation, I certainly won't turn you away. Well, see above.. :-) > Yeah, so far I'm willing to try. I'll wait just a bit to see what other > reactions come to the surface. While I'm waiting, if anyone is willing > to `adopt a newbie', just drop me a short note. I've just cleared 100meg > on my disk to receive the flood of applications :->. And if this number doesn't grow appreciably, yell! I think that Julian is right about this requiring a substantial amount of initial noise to get started, but get started it should and will! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 20:56:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA11145 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:56:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA11136 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:56:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 23:17:21 EDT." Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:56:27 -0700 Message-ID: <11135.798782187@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on > the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? I'd kill for digest format. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:29:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA12420 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:29:46 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12413 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:29:44 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:29:37 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15915; Tue, 25 Apr 95 14:29:21 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250429.AA15915@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:29:20 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 24, 95 11:41:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 759 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler writes: > Gary, > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > it rip. > > command action > ------------------------------- > subscribe mentors register yourself as a person willing to adopt > new users of FreeBSD [great looking stuff deleted] > what do you think, gary? this the kinda thing? I love it, I love it -- now who is going to do it??? Can it all be handled on freefall (or wherever)??? I'll subscribe to mentors immediately it's available :->. I *was* willing to have a go by hand but this sounds much more efficient :->. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:43:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA12832 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:43:34 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA12819 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:43:17 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA15562; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:40:21 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:40:21 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250440.OAA15562@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: terry@cs.weber.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The correct way to run comparative benchmarks is to boot a DOS disk >and fdisk/mbr the same machine and installl on the same machine over >and over with the different OS's. Not "identical hardware", the same >machine. What is ``DOS''? :-> The correct way is to boot a boot disk for the OS being tested and erase all traces of the previous OS... >The first is context switch. There are several significan differences >in the way context switch takes place in BSD and Linux. The BSD model >for the actual switch itself is very close to the UnixWare/Solaris model, >but is missing delayed storage of the FPU registers on a switch. This is >because BSD really doesn't have its act together regarding the FPU, and >can't really be corrected until it does. On hardware that does proper Actually, this is because FreeBSD doesn't waste a whole 108 bytes in the proc table for the FPU state and no one wants to handle the complications and probable slowness of updating paged-out FPU contexts after delayed FPU context switches. >exception handling (like the Pentiums tested), the FPU context can be >thrown out to the process it belongs to after being delayed over several >context switches previous on the basis of "uses FPU" being set in the >process or not, and a soft interrupt of the FPU as if trapping to an >emulator to tag the first reference in each process. Pretty much all >the UNIX implementations and Linux do this, but BSD does not. >It should be pretty obvious that for a benchmark, when there is a single >program doing FPU crap, that the FPU delayed switchout means no switch >actually occurs during the running of the benchmark. You can think of >this as a benchmark cheat, since it is a large locality of reference >hack, in effect. It takes a fairly special benchmark to demonstrate the speed advantages of delayed context switches. If there are multiple processes all using the FPU then non-delayed switching is slighly faster. If there are many more processes not using the FPU than there are processes using it, then most context switches don't switch the FPU. For real processes, those using the FPU a lot are likely to be CPU hogs that get context switched very rarely so the extra cost for immediately switching the FPU context is insignificant. FreeBSD's low level context switching is faster than Linux's because hardware tasking is not used. Perhaps there is a lot more bloat in other layers of the context switching. (Yes, there is. E.g., calling microtime() for each context switch is very expensive except on Pentiums). microtime() has to be called so that FreeBSD can do better timing statistics and scheduling than Linux. ) However, for real processes, context switching is relatively rare, so small differences (less than a factor of 2-10) in the speed of context switching don't matter. >The system call overhead in BSD is typically larger. This is because >of address range checking for copyin/copyout operations. Linux has Actually, this is because FreeBSD has more layers. >split this up into a seperate check call and copy operations, which is >more prone to programmer error leaving security holes than an integral >copy/check, but they have an advantage when it comes to multiple use >memoy regions because of this (areas that are copied from several times >or which are copied both in and out). Actually, copyin/copyout are faster in FreeBSD, except on 386's. For copyin, the check consists of setting up a fault handler, checking that the addresses are covered by the user segment registers, and letting the h/w check for page faults. For copyout, the page tables have to be checked directly only for 386's. I think the Linux advantage for syscalls is that copyin is usually not used at all. The args are in registers. >Linux, as part of this, has no copyinstr. Instead, they use a routine >called "getpathname". This not only allows them to special case the >code, it also allows them greater flexibility than traditional copyinstr >implementations when it comes to internationalization. Since the only copyinstr() is poorly implemented iin FreeBSD. However, I've never seen it showing up in profiling output. >Finally, the pipe overhead is traceable to system call overhead, the pipe >implementation itself, and the file system stack coeelescing being a >little less than desirable. This seems likely. The BYTE benchmark article didn't mention the exact syscalls used so it's not clear if the pipe benchmark is valid. lmbench has a "syscall" overhead benchmark that actually tests i/o of one byte to a file. Linux is much faster because there are less vfs layers, not because syscalls are faster. Pipe benchmarks involving small amounts of data (as would be best if pipes are being used for process synchronization) are likely to have to same problem. Pipe benchmarks involving a large amount of data should reduce to benchmarking bcopy() (at east is the implmentation is naive enough to always actually do the copy). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:44:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA12863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:44:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12853 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:44:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Gary Roberts , Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 23:41:08 EDT." Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:44:10 -0700 Message-ID: <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > it rip. The problem with this scheme is that it requires too much action on the part of the mentor. I would much prefer to see: newbie% mail new-users@freebsd.org Subject: i^Hhe^H^HHelp me, I am lost! I've just installed FreeBSD and now it's just looking at me with a "newbie% " prompt. What do I do? What book should I buy? Sorry to bother you guys but it said to mail new-users in case I needed help and I'm a new user!! :-) :q save agh! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:46:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA12933 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:46:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA12926 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:46:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: hsu@freefall.cdrom.com (Jeffrey Hsu), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:49:07 +1000." <9504250349.AA15765@wcs.uq.edu.au> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: <12925.798785169@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What I'm trying to do is in *addition* to the FAQ mechanism. Others > working on FAQs aren't going to be affected by what I'm attempting. Except that you'll be an excellent source for raw material.. :-) See my other posting. > My perception (correct me if I'm wrong) is that many people don't take > the trouble to read FAQs, READMEs, INSTALL_NOTES, etc and just blaze > away with questions anyway which swamp the developers. They do send You're not wrong... > e-mail or post to newsgroups so I imagine they would be mightily > impressed to receive personalised assistance from a dedicated helper. You're right... > Hopefully, the *committed* user base thereby grows and the whole > process eventually snowballs -- and we catch up and surpass Linux :->. You're dreaming... But it's a nice dream. :-) > Yeah, but as they say "Nothing engenders brand loyalty more than good, > old-fashioned, personalised service". That's tellin' em, Gary! Sic' em! Go get 'em! :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:52:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13150 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:52:17 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA13122 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:52:00 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA05143; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:51:59 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250451.VAA05143@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Testers please! To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1103 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The file ftp://freefall.cdrom.com/incoming/fixit_kernel Contains the latest wonder, a complete fixit_floppy in one kernel. Please try and boot it, and tell me what you think. I don't think it will boot on a 4Mb system. (The compressed image is bigger than 1Mb and gets loaded @ 3Mb.) If it says anything about "OnTrack disk manager" please send me email and tell me if it looked right to you. What is it ? It's a kzip'ed (compressed) kernel with a MFS (memory filesystem) root filesystem compiled in. This means that you can boot it from anywhere, including your harddisk (The dos-boot program needs a fix before it will work, but that is underway). Why is that special ? You can remount the root R/W without destroying your fixit-floppy mount -u mfs_root / You can mount another floppy if you want You can boot it of you harddisk/ms-dos partition (soon)/floppy or even over the network (!) Have fun ! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 21:54:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA13180 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:54:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA13171 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:54:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Gary Roberts , Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:44:10 PDT." <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:54:05 -0700 Message-ID: <13170.798785645@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > :q > save > agh! >[EOF] Drat. The `.' I stuck in this message as part of my all-too-realistic example clearly terminated the outgoing mail message, too.. :-( Let me find it in my outbox here.. Ah, here's the message you were all supposed to see! :-) > To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" > cc: Gary Roberts , > Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups > In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 23:41:08 EDT." > > Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:44:10 -0700 > Message-ID: <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > > it rip. > > The problem with this scheme is that it requires too much action on > the part of the mentor. I would much prefer to see: > > newbie% mail new-users@freebsd.org > Subject: i^Hhe^H^HHelp me, I am lost! > I've just installed FreeBSD and now it's just looking at me > with a "newbie% " prompt. What do I do? What book should > I buy? Sorry to bother you guys but it said to mail new-users > in case I needed help and I'm a new user!! :-) > :q > save > agh! > . > > newbie% > You have new mail. > newbie% mail > Mail version 8.1 6/6/93. Type ? for help. > "/var/mail/newbie": 1 messages 1 new > >N 1 help@freefall.cdrom.c Mon Apr 24 20:57 27/1165 "In answer to: " > & 1 > Subject: In answer to question ID: #496130-newbie@where.am.i >
> Reply-to: help-status@freebsd.org > > This is to confirm that your question: > > < text of question > > > Has been assigned one of our technical support volunteers. Please > reply to this message (quoting the question ID above if your mailer > doesn't automatically include it in the subject) ONLY if you do not > get a follow-up message within 72 hours. > > Thank you! > > > > & q > You have new mail [assuming a perfect world :)] > % mail > Mail version 8.1 6/6/93. Type ? for help. > "/var/mail/newbie": 2 messages 1 new > R 1 help@freefall.cdrom.c Mon Apr 24 20:57 27/1165 "In answer to: " > >N 1 joe-mentor@freefall.c Mon Apr 24 22:01 27/1165 "In answer to: " > & 1 > Subject: Re: In answer to question ID: #496130-newbie@where.am.i >
> > Hi! I recommend the 4.4 BSD Lite doc set, until somebody actually gets > up off his ass and writes the FreeBSD Book he's been promising for > months. Other than that, /usr/share/FAQ and the source directory > is your friend! [etc etc]. > > - Joe > > & r > Subject: My god! > You guys are gods! An answer to my question only 5 minutes after I > asked it! I.. I'm going to tell ALL my friends about FreeBSD! I'm > going to tell my MOTHER about FreeBSD! I'm going to tell my DOG.. [etc etc] > > ---- > > I think you guys get the picture.. :-) I really like the idea of > tracking the conversations in both directions and archiving the > results. This has substantial plus points: > > 1. You can tell if a question has gone unanswered due to the first > mentor chosen being on vacation or something. This is what > the oracle does, and it even lets the first oracle know that he's > been "fired" when the message is reassigned. The original > questioner could also be sent a follow-up apologising for the > delay, say that someone else had been chosen and ask the user > to be patient for just a little while longer. > > 2. You can peruse the `conversation logs' and get some dandy FAQ > entries out of the whole process, to say nothing of a deeper > understanding of where the documentation has fallen obviously > flat. > > 3. Other people on the mentor list can scan it and use some of it > for sending canned replies back to those asking similar questions. > > > On the minus side, such a system is a LOT harder to initially set up and > maintain, but then that's just a PERL problem and we all already know that > PERL can do anything.. :-) > > Jordan > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:05:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13411 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:05:14 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13404 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:05:11 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id BAA02474; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:00:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Gary Roberts , Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > > it rip. > > The problem with this scheme is that it requires too much action on > the part of the mentor. I would much prefer to see: > Subject: In answer to question ID: #496130-newbie@where.am.i cool, perl can count. save newbie mail by id number, all mail referencing that id number gets appended to the same mail file. >
> Reply-to: help-status@freebsd.org > > This is to confirm that your question: > > < text of question > > > Has been assigned one of our technical support volunteers. Please > reply to this message (quoting the question ID above if your mailer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ potential newbie stumper? > doesn't automatically include it in the subject) ONLY if you do not > get a follow-up message within 72 hours. > 1. You can tell if a question has gone unanswered due to the first > mentor chosen being on vacation or something. This is what > the oracle does, and it even lets the first oracle know that he's > been "fired" when the message is reassigned. The original > questioner could also be sent a follow-up apologising for the > delay, say that someone else had been chosen and ask the user > to be patient for just a little while longer. so is oracle the answer? what is oracle, this is the first that i have heard of it (stop laughing over there, its naught phunny!) > 2. You can peruse the `conversation logs' and get some dandy FAQ > entries out of the whole process, to say nothing of a deeper > understanding of where the documentation has fallen obviously > flat. > > 3. Other people on the mentor list can scan it and use some of it > for sending canned replies back to those asking similar questions. > > > On the minus side, such a system is a LOT harder to initially set up and > maintain, but then that's just a PERL problem and we all already know that > PERL can do anything.. :-) have i got a webserver for you, jordan! and its all in perl even ;) aside from some extra code, the only reservation i have about the above scheme is: the newbie gets someone new each time. no rapport is built up between the mentor and the newbie. the mentor has no context of other problems that this newbie has encountered. each question is a new ball game. this can be an advantage, the newbie gets diversity of responders. but a newbie/mentor relationship might be better for the newbie. we can still assign question ids and file mail by question id, storing the net-knowlege away for future use. (hmmm...wais sounds good) jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:13:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA13569 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:13:39 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA13563 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:13:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00938 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:06:03 GMT Message-Id: <199504242206.WAA00938@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:53:40 +0200." <199504242053.WAA04525@jette.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:06:01 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > > porting of this to FreeBSD? > > Sure I am interested .... Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:44:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14199 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:44:03 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA14191 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:43:59 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA09808; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:38:14 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504250538.GAA09808@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:38:14 +0100 (BST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 24, 95 11:41:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1893 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan M. Bresler who said > > Gary, > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > it rip. Hey, this is getting interesting :-) > > command action > ------------------------------- > subscribe mentors register yourself as a person willing to adopt > new users of FreeBSD > unsubscribe mentors --ahhhhh....no more please. > adopt iamlost@where.am.i adopt this poor soul, all his mail to > hackers and others gets routed to you! > what about questions (or is this just crazy?) > disown iamlost@where.am.i he has learned enough not to ask the > 3c509 -link2 flag question. let him have direct > access to the lists again. > subscribe newusers help me please, i just got my cdrom and i cant > get my 3c509 to work > unsubscribe newusers hey man--back off, i know this thing, give me some > elbow room here. If we pick up some of Jordan's ideas about queing the newuser requests so that they don't get dropped then this would be quite a neat support setup -- assuming of course we get enough mentors to make it functional. Rather than using questions or hackers use the newuser list. So, newuser subscribes to newuser list because he needs help. One of the mentors adopts him and then all further mail the newbie sends to newusers gets redirected to his mentor. When newbie feels consident enough he unsubscribes from newuser and if mentor feels it's time to break away he can disown. If a newuser is disowned they should probably go back on the queue so another mentor can pick them up. I don't think it needs to affect our current lists at all, this would be a separate service. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:45:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14241 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:45:15 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA14232 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:45:01 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA15990; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:54:57 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:54:57 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250454.OAA15990@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Is P5 is faster than DX4 100 under FreeBSD? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Linux FAQ (or was it HOWTO?) states that bogomips are measured as >> DX2/DX4 Mhz * 0.5 >> P5 Mhz * 0.39 >... >Now, the 386/40 with Linux would be about 7.9 bogomips. The 386/40 with >FreeBSD would be about 8.6 bogomips (a little over the predicted 8?)... the >486dx2/80 would be 35.1 (a little under the predicted 40?), and the Pentium >would be 117.0, which does not seem reasonable, although the P90 does appear >to be at least 2x on most of my tests over a 486dx2/80... so perhaps the >P90 performs very well (and/or optimizes much better) on tight loops. >Interestingly enough, the Linux formula you gave would suggest that the P90 >would be rated at 35.1 bogomips. The bogimips test happened to have instructions that pipelined very poorly for Pentiums. This can't be fixed because then the test would be useless for historical comparisons. This doesn't matter because the test is bogus. On all x86's with an on-chip cache (i.e., for everything except i386's), the loop in the test takes a certain number of cycles that depends only on the cpu, so its results are given very accurately by the formula bogomips = speed_in_MHz / cycles_per_test / fudge_factor(= 2?) cycles_per_test is easy to calculate from the best-case instruction timings. >I then ftp'd a Linux boot disk and did some measurements on the machines I >had easy access to: >machine bogo >386dx/40 8.0 >486dx2/80 41.1 >pentium 90 36.2 For i386's the speed depends on the external cache and is difficult to predict. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:51:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:51:18 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA14455 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:51:16 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <07916-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:57:28 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id MAA10049 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:22:50 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id CAA29506 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:21:21 GMT Message-Id: <199504250221.CAA29506@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6beta 3/23/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Building off a CDROM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:21:20 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it likely that there will be space on the next CD for an unpacked version of the system sources? I'm contemplating my ever-decreasing disk space and thinking that something like the union filesytem and sources mounted off a CD would be a good thing, particularly if patches would end up just replacing the visible copy from the CD. Stephen I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:51:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14468 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:51:21 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA14460 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:51:18 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:31:10 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16107; Tue, 25 Apr 95 15:31:01 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250531.AA16107@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:31:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 09:44:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1414 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > > it rip. > > The problem with this scheme is that it requires too much action on > the part of the mentor. I would much prefer to see: [output from a perl script deleted :->.] > You guys are gods! An answer to my question only 5 minutes after I > asked it! I.. I'm going to tell ALL my friends about FreeBSD! I'm > going to tell my MOTHER about FreeBSD! I'm going to tell my DOG.. [etc etc] > > ---- > > I think you guys get the picture.. :-) I really like the idea of > tracking the conversations in both directions and archiving the > results. This has substantial plus points: .... > On the minus side, such a system is a LOT harder to initially set up and > maintain, but then that's just a PERL problem and we all already know that > PERL can do anything.. :-) And therein lies the rub ... I'd like to see something *workable* which can be set up quickly rather than the `Rolls-Royce' which doesn't make it off the drawing board ... I'm impressed with the benefits you list but worried about the work to achieve it all. Who will volunteer to implement the Rolls-Royce?? If someone sticks their hand up then let's go ... Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 22:58:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA14674 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:58:03 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA14668 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:58:02 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA05429; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:57:57 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504250557.WAA05429@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250221.CAA29506@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Apr 25, 95 12:21:20 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 637 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it likely that there will be space on the next CD for an unpacked version > of the system sources? I'm contemplating my ever-decreasing disk space and > thinking that something like the union filesytem and sources mounted off a CD > would be a good thing, particularly if patches would end up just replacing the > visible copy from the CD. We have always had the sources unpacked on the CD. UNIONFS is broken :-( but you can make a linkfarm... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 23:09:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA15047 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:09:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA15040 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:09:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: Gary Roberts , Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 01:00:37 EDT." Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:09:30 -0700 Message-ID: <15038.798790170@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > aside from some extra code, the only reservation i have about the above > scheme is: the newbie gets someone new each time. no rapport is built > up between the mentor and the newbie. the mentor has no context of other > problems that this newbie has encountered. each question is a new ball game. This is easy enough - you can include the mentor's email address back after the second round, say. It could be configurable. All the remailer has to do is take itself out of the Reply-To loop and its job is finished. > this can be an advantage, the newbie gets diversity of > responders. but a newbie/mentor relationship might be better for the newbie. Oh, don't misunderstand - the mentor is assigned ONCE, at the beginning of the exchange. Anything referrring to that message ID automatically gets sent to one side or the other of the original pair, not somebody new each time. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 23:13:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA15215 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:13:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA15206 ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:13:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Testers please! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:51:58 PDT." <199504250451.VAA05143@ref.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:13:54 -0700 Message-ID: <15205.798790434@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The file > > ftp://freefall.cdrom.com/incoming/fixit_kernel > > Contains the latest wonder, a complete fixit_floppy in one kernel. > > Please try and boot it, and tell me what you think. Interesting. First impressions: 1. Hey, neat idea! 2. Hmmm. But is it good for anything? :-) Testing environment was a 486/33 with 8MB of memory. Every command is DOG SLOW. I mean SLOW. So slow that I think I might be inclined to simply reformat rather than fix.. :-) Why does it take such an inhumanly long time? Everything from `date' to `ls' lags about 3 seconds before startup and this is without any I/O to the floppy at all! Hmmmmmmmm.. 3. spwd.db is 0 length, resulting in some anguish from the system. Other than that, it's pretty neat stuff! If the wrinkles can be ironed out, I could see this as a nice tool. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 23:50:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16398 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:50:40 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16392 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:50:39 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA05638; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:50:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250650.XAA05638@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199504250440.OAA15562@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 25, 95 02:40:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 885 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD's low level context switching is faster than Linux's because > hardware tasking is not used. Perhaps there is a lot more bloat in > other layers of the context switching. (Yes, there is. E.g., calling > microtime() for each context switch is very expensive except on > Pentiums). microtime() has to be called so that FreeBSD can do better > timing statistics and scheduling than Linux. ) However, for real > processes, context switching is relatively rare, so small differences > (less than a factor of 2-10) in the speed of context switching don't > matter. Bill Jolitz actually recanted on this.. in 386BSD, he as used the LINUX scheme of the 386 built-in context switches.... he eventually decided the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.. I believe he decided that, in the big picture, the CISC operation was faster than the "do-it-yourself" version. > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 23:55:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16512 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:55:20 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16497 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:55:00 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA19925; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:50:50 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:50:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250650.QAA19925@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, matt@lkg.dec.com Subject: Re: [EISA] related matters Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >What we really should have is a TEXT_SET(device_probe...) and kill config... >> >> No linker magic is required or good. Drivers should register their >> interrupt masking requirements as late as possible, preferably not >> until open() completes. >Not every device has an open routine (like network interfaces). They have an attach routine. Maybe the registration could be delayed until the interface is ifconfig'ed. >There should be two steps: the first is registration (allow a driver to >indicate that it will use an IRQ) to detect conflicts, the second is the >actual enabling of the interrupt handler. There aren't enough isa interrupts, and isa interrupts can't be shared (at the same time), so early registration and conflict checking is too restrictive. Of course, interrupts for critical devices need to be reserved early and almost forever. Examples of time-sharing of interrupts: 1) COM1 and COM3 both on IRQ4. Delay the interrupt registration until open() and unregister the interrupt in close(). This would actually be easier to handle using a `controller' device that multiplexes the interrupt internally. 2) Multiple wd disk controllers on IRQ14. Only one can be active at a time. Enable IRQs for the controller that you expect to interrupt next and disable IRQs for the others. Again, this is easier to handle internally. 3) lpt0 on IRQ7 ans something else on IRQ7. Use IRQ7 for lpt0 if nothing else wants it. Otherwise, use IRQ7 for something else and polling for lpt0. This is harder to handle because the something else is probably in another driver and lpt0 needs to be told when its interrupt is preempted. >BSD/OS actually has done this in a manner which is quite nice. There are >no interrupt handlers defined in the config file. Every driver must register >their interrupt handler in their attach routine. >You can almost achieve the same thing in FreeBSD by setting id->id_intr in >the attach routine. I made 2.0 work with existing config files and drivers that don't set id->id_intr. This was too successfull - most drivers still don't set id->id_intr. >The problem is that the irq class is not so easily set >in the driver (because of having isa_devtab_xxx in ioconf.c; it would be >nicer if the isa_device structure had a id_class field which would be used >to register the approriate interrupt handler). I thought of this too, but it was pointed out that the id_class isn't really necessary - it can by implicit in a registration scheme. >Right now, my new-improved DECPA driver needs the following config file line >on FreeBSD: > device di0 at isa? net irq ? Does BSD/OS support the old config keywords that allow you to specify too much in the config file? I'm not sure which keywords are FreeBSD brokenness. Supporting both "irq ?" and "irq n" requires more work by drivers - they should probably honor the request for a particular irq. Some FreeBSD drivers (bt742.c...) just blow away the request for a particular irq. >The "net irq ?" is required so it's put into the right device table. Under >BSD/OS, all I need is: > di0 at isa? Don't you have to register the device as being in class `net'? This would take more than the 4 characters required for `net ' in the config file. Putting it in the config file may be the best approach if the driver is changed more often than the config file (which is far from the case when there are many more installations than driver authors). >The IRQ services in FreeBSD are definitely inferior to BSD/OS. BSD/OS >supports shared interrupts for all interrupts (not specific to PCI as >in FreeBSD). Some routines that FreeBSD could use are: > isa_irqmask_t isa_irqalloc(isa_irqmask_t irqs); > isa_irqmask_t isa_forceintr(int (*forceintr)(void *arg)); Yes. Does BSD/OS use prototypes without __P(()) for everything and good typedefs for everything? The isa irq mask type is magic but since the machine type is fixed, an explicit type can work OK. OTOH, irqalloc() is a good interface for all machines with irq masks and putting isa in its name defeats reuse (does it apply to eisa? :-). forceintr() is a good interface for all machines except its arg should be typedef'ed. forceintr() is difficult to implement. It can't be implemented for lpt's (you need a benign printer attached and turned on). >Modifying my drivers to run under both FreeBSD and BSD/OS has been very >enlightening. Some things BSD/OS does better while FreeBSD does better at >other things. Isn't it easier to have all configuration stuff outside the driver as in FreeBSD? At least if the external configuration is adequate. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 24 23:56:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA16568 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:56:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA16562 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:56:10 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA08228; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:53:17 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504250653.XAA08228@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <12925.798785169@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 09:46:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1367 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > What I'm trying to do is in *addition* to the FAQ mechanism. Others > > working on FAQs aren't going to be affected by what I'm attempting. > > Except that you'll be an excellent source for raw material.. :-) See my > other posting. > > > My perception (correct me if I'm wrong) is that many people don't take > > the trouble to read FAQs, READMEs, INSTALL_NOTES, etc and just blaze > > away with questions anyway which swamp the developers. They do send > > You're not wrong... > > > e-mail or post to newsgroups so I imagine they would be mightily > > impressed to receive personalised assistance from a dedicated helper. > > You're right... > > > Hopefully, the *committed* user base thereby grows and the whole > > process eventually snowballs -- and we catch up and surpass Linux :->. > > You're dreaming... But it's a nice dream. :-) > > > Yeah, but as they say "Nothing engenders brand loyalty more than good, > > old-fashioned, personalised service". > > That's tellin' em, Gary! Sic' em! Go get 'em! :-) :-) And as a show of my faith in what Gary is doing here: Gary, please put me on the helper list, and assign me my 1 newbie, when I am done with him I will ask for another. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:02:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA16705 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:02:14 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16699 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:02:12 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA05697; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:01:57 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250701.AAA05697@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 24, 95 11:41:08 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1830 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gary, > great idea! we can add a couple of commands to majordomo and let > it rip. > > command action > ------------------------------- > subscribe mentors register yourself as a person willing to adopt > new users of FreeBSD > unsubscribe mentors --ahhhhh....no more please. > adopt iamlost@where.am.i adopt this poor soul, all his mail to > hackers and others gets routed to you! > what about questions (or is this just crazy?) > disown iamlost@where.am.i he has learned enough not to ask the > 3c509 -link2 flag question. let him have direct > access to the lists again. > subscribe newusers help me please, i just got my cdrom and i cant > get my 3c509 to work > unsubscribe newusers hey man--back off, i know this thing, give me some > elbow room here. trouble is that if you go on holiday, your students can't send to hackers etc. > > so you offer help by joining mentors, adopt newbies till you reach your > limit then unusbscribe from mentors. release (disown) newbies when they > are ready to stand on their own more or less. an unhappy newbie that > does not like his mentor still send to questions. and request adoption or > subscribe newusers and hope someone will pick him up. cron each night > (week?) matches newbies and mentors, giving each mentor 1 newbie and > removing that newbie from the newusers lists. mail is sent to both the > mentor and the newbie to introduce them to each other. matching needs to take timezones into account! (and possible geographic locality) > > what do you think, gary? this the kinda thing? not bad > > jmb > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. > | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:02:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA16719 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:02:58 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16713 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:02:46 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA20127; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:56:31 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:56:31 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250656.QAA20127@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: phk@ref.tfs.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Is it likely that there will be space on the next CD for an unpacked version >> of the system sources? I'm contemplating my ever-decreasing disk space and >> thinking that something like the union filesytem and sources mounted off a CD >> would be a good thing, particularly if patches would end up just replacing the >> visible copy from the CD. >We have always had the sources unpacked on the CD. Aren't we planning to fix this in 2.1? :-) Add enough ports and there will no longer be room. (I like bloat in ports but not in src.) >UNIONFS is broken :-( but you can make a linkfarm... Fixing unionfs would be a good project. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:08:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA16904 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:08:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16898 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:08:53 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA05746; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:08:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250708.AAA05746@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <13170.798785645@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 09:54:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 593 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > I think you guys get the picture.. :-) I really like the idea of > > tracking the conversations in both directions and archiving the > > results. This has substantial plus points: > > > > 1. You can tell if a question has gone unanswered due to the first > > mentor chosen being on vacation or something. This is what > > the oracle does, and it even lets the first oracle know that he's > > been "fired" when the message is reassigned. The original so what does anon.penet.fi do? how do we force mentors to respond via the system instead of directly? > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:10:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA16964 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:10:27 -0700 Received: from duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu [18.43.0.236]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA16957 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:10:25 -0700 Received: by duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12GNU) id DAA08689; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:10:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:10:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199504250710.DAA08689@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Charles M. Hannum" To: terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-reply-to: <9504242008.AA19390@cs.weber.edu> (terry@cs.weber.edu) Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The BSD model for the actual switch itself is very close to the UnixWare/Solaris model, but is missing delayed storage of the FPU registers on a switch. Speak for yourself, please. NetBSD has been doing delayed switching for a while now. It should be pretty obvious that for a benchmark, when there is a single program doing FPU crap, that the FPU delayed switchout means no switch actually occurs during the running of the benchmark. That depends on what you mean by a `switch'. You still have to set the `task switched' flag on a switch out, and take a fault next time something uses the FPU. You could recognize that the process you're switching into was the last one using the FPU and automatically turn off the flag when switching back in. Currently, I don't do that, though I may change that RSN. On hardware that does proper exception handling (like the Pentiums tested), the FPU context can be thrown out to the process it belongs to after being delayed over several context switches previous on the basis of "uses FPU" being set in the process or not, and a soft interrupt of the FPU as if trapping to an emulator to tag the first reference in each process. You only need a `FPU was used' flag per process if you're doing delayed initialization. For primarily integer-only applications, delaying the FPU initialization would be a win (albeit a *very* small one), but it would require an extra test in the FPU context switching code, which would be a smaller but frequent hit for FPU-intensive applications. (With a slight kluge, it may be possible to combine this with the check for whether you're using the emulator or not, and eliminate the extra bit altogether. I'll have to try this.) The system call overhead in BSD is typically larger. This is because of address range checking for copyin/copyout operations. Linux has split this up into a seperate check call and copy operations, which is more prone to programmer error leaving security holes than an integral copy/check, but they have an advantage when it comes to multiple use memoy regions because of this (areas that are copied from several times or which are copied both in and out). And it is precisely this that will screw Linux for SMP systems. What if someone else changes a page protection after you've already checked it for `security'? Answer: You don't need a programmer error to create a security hole. The region of memory needs to be locked between the time the security check is done and the last use of it. There are a few ways to do this: 1) Only run on single-processor machines. 2) Only allow one processor to be executing in the kernel at a time. 3) Lock all memory mapped by a process when it enters the kernel, and unlock it when exiting the kernel (being careful about the case of the process dying, of course). 4) Lock memory when it is tested by verify_area(), and unlock it when exiting the kernel. (This is the `best option' in Linux, without changing the interfaces.) 5) Lock memory only for the duration of a copy operation. (This is what the BSD interfaces suggest doing.) Given that the BSD kernel is carefully tuned to limit the number of situations in which repeated accesses are done to the same user memory region, and that such tuning is fairly easy to do, the last option is definitely the most attractive. Part of the checking is to allow address faulting instead of precheck comparison -- in other words, if the processer honors write protect in protected mode, this becomes a NULL op. The magic here is that you then only actually perform the check on i386 processers and not on i486/i586. The memory mapping is adjusted so this works. I can't speak for FreeBSD, but NetBSD has done that for nearly two years. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:17:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA17187 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:17:44 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA17181 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:17:43 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA05801; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:17:36 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504250717.AAA05801@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504211500.ZM15146@tonic.gmd.de> from "Dirk Steinberg" at Apr 21, 95 05:00:44 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 946 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > has anyone followed up on this? julian > Hi, > > After some deadly failures I succeeded in compiling and running > FreeBSD-950417 with maximum gcc optimization: "-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer". > > As for the gcc flags, this is easily accomplished by editing /etc/make.conf > for the user-level code. For the kernel itself the appropriate line in the > Makefile > containing the "COPTFLAGS" definition needs to be adapted. > > Needless to say, for both the kernel and the user-land, this didn't work at > first: > > /usr/libexec/ld.so fails horribly when compiled with "-fomit-frame-pointer". > I learned the hard way :-( (after compiling /bin and /sbin dynamically...). > > For the kernel compile, the functions dummyinit() in in kern/init_main.c > and dummy_cleanup() in kern/kern_xxx.c get optimized away by gcc > when compiling with an optimization setting higher than "-O2", e.g. > "-O3". > > The following patch fixes these problems. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:24:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA17418 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:24:53 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA17412 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:24:45 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA20701; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:17:44 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:17:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250717.RAA20701@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, terry@cs.weber.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> FreeBSD's low level context switching is faster than Linux's because >> hardware tasking is not used. Perhaps there is a lot more bloat in >> ... >Bill Jolitz actually recanted on this.. >in 386BSD, he as used the LINUX scheme of the 386 built-in >context switches.... >he eventually decided the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.. >I believe he decided that, in the big picture, the CISC operation was faster >than the "do-it-yourself" version. In 386BSD-0.2? How much faster is it? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:29:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA17731 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:29:24 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA17725 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:29:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA21930; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:29:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199504250729.AAA21930@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Khalil Basma cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:47:59 CST." <199504250649.XAA16370@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:29:18 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Dear Mr. Gibbs: I'm flattered that you picked me to send this to, but am sort of perplexed why it was me that you picked! :) The network layers of the kernel are not my forte', and I think that more information on how your managers interface at the device layer will be needed to fully answer your question. I've CC'd hackers@FreeBSD.org so that a wider audience will be able to respond. I'm sure that there will be many people interested in what you are trying to do with FreeBSD and hopefully someone more experienced in these areas will get back to you. If no one responds, ping me again and I'll see what I can do to help you out. -- Justin > > I am Ph.D. student at the University of Mississippi >currently working on my dissertation which is titled >"Implementation of Distributed Operating System Components in >FreeBSD". Our design is to implement three managers into FreeBSD >which will transform FreeBSD into a distributed operating system. >To transform FreeBSD BOS into a DOS, specific DOS components will >be integrated into and built subservient to existing FreeBSD BOS >components. The DOS components to be added include a network >manager (NM), resource manager (RM), and communication manager >(CM). In order for these managers to be transparent to the user, >and yet offer DOS functionality without the added complexity of >separate DOS and BOS services, the managers will be placed below >existing BOS components. The three main DOS components, which are >CM, RM, and NM, work together in order to: (1) support user level >network based interprocess communication (IPC), (2) gather global >state information about all nodes in the network, and (3) receive >requests for remote action and receive remote requests for local >action and handle the return of results. In order to gain access >to the network, both the RM and NM must interface with the CM, >since only the CM will interface with the device driver of the >local area network. > > These managers have been written and tested separately. My >question to you is how can I compile and link these managers to >become part of FreeBSD kernel. I have tried to understand the >Makefile and have tried just about every thing I could think of, >only to fail. Any help from you would very much be appreciated >for I am desperate to any other input. Please, if you could E- >Mail me the steps as to how I can build my libraries and link >them with the kernel so that all my modules will be visible to >the kernel you would save my life :-). > > Thank you very much for your response in advance. And I do >hope you will respond to my help cry. Again thanks in advance and >hope to hare from you the sooner the better. > >Khalil Basma >Voice: (601) 234-9018 >Fax: (601) 234-3333 >e-mail: cvbasm@vm.cc.olemiss.edu > basma@faser.cs.olemiss.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:43:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA18332 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:43:19 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA18326 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:43:18 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:43:12 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16410; Tue, 25 Apr 95 17:43:01 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504250743.AA16410@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:43:01 +1000 (EST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250653.XAA08228@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 24, 95 11:53:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1181 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > Yeah, but as they say "Nothing engenders brand loyalty more than good, > > > old-fashioned, personalised service". > > > > That's tellin' em, Gary! Sic' em! Go get 'em! :-) :-) > > And as a show of my faith in what Gary is doing here: > > Gary, please put me on the helper list, and assign me my 1 newbie, > when I am done with him I will ask for another. Thanks Rod, you are now a *foundation* member of the FreeBSD Mentors' Club. There are *obviously* going to be special *privileges* for those who join up quickly :-> ;->. I'll keep a list of all volunteers and as soon as we can get some sort of working system in place, we'll kick the thing into gear. Those following the discussion will have seen the ideas for automation that are coming forward. I'd like to see such a system if a scripting guru offers his services. I think that Jonathan has offered but I'll let him confirm that in public if he wishes. If nothing *automated* surfaces, I will try to do it manually. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:47:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA18469 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:47:08 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA18457 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:46:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00771; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:44:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA21829 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:44:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA05682 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:23:40 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504250723.JAA05682@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:23:35 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241931.MAA14200@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Apr 24, 95 12:31:27 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 863 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > but there is a point in expanding the NEWS coverage.. > rememeber I was suggesting MAIL -> News and not visa-versa. > > Sorry, I wasn't explicit in my last mail message. We both agree on > expanding the news coverage. I want to go further and see the news > coverage subsume the mailing lists, but for the moment, I'd be > happy just to see the mail -> news gateway. Of course, I'd be happier > to see the news -> mail gateway too. Then I can unsubscribe to the mailing > lists and just read news. (Anyone who likes mail can still get their > quota of mail by staying on the mailing lists. Nothing in this proposal > changes the status quo for them.) > This would get me all the stuff twice, or i had to unsubscribe from the news groups. News is typically between 3 and 7 days behind in europe. Too slow for a good technical discussion. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 00:58:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA18666 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:58:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA18656 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:58:13 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA21639; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:54:01 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:54:01 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250754.RAA21639@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install Cc: dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> 3/ we need to be able to create other partition types. >no. It may be handy to be able to, but we don't >need< it. We can easily create partitions and set the partition type entry for them, but we can't handle internal details. DOS apparently removes stale tables when partitions are deleted, if at all. You can get into trouble deleting DOS partitions using non- DOS fdisks because of this. E.g.: start with a DOS partition covering the whole disk. Delete it and create a FreeBSD partition at the end of the disk and a smaller DOS partition at the start of the disk. Put good stuff on the FreeBSD partition. Format the DOS partition. In some cases the FreeBSD stuff will be destroyed because DOS uses its old BPB at the front of its partition. >> 5/ disklabel had old info from before teh new fdisk >> (I understand how this happens, but we should look at how to >> fix that when we re-write the MBD...(invalidate the label?)) >hopefully fixed for 2.1. FreeBSD doesn't create its own partitions properly :(. Stale disk labels that appear when a new FreeBSD partition is created should be rejected, e.g., by zeroing block 2 of a newly created FreeBSD partition. Of course, old labels should not be clobbered without asking - fdisk should normally not write anywhere except the partition table. >> 7/ In the initial install boot, the -c option should be COMPULSORY >> or at least better publisised (It is, but not well) >Hmmm maybe. All devices except the console and floppy should be initially off :-). >> 13/ Slice code is pooly documented .. docs still refer to disklabel for >> DOS partitions. >In the works these days. I thought the drivers in the SNAPs didn't use new slice code. >> > in a disklabel. This seems like a really arbitrary restriction to me. >> > Isn't /dev/wd0s2 the second slice on disk 0? >> No, wd0s1 is..... 0,1,2,3 right? >No wd0s[1-4], wd0s0 is "compatibility slice" ie first type 0xa5 found, >slice 5... are dos extended slices. There is actually no slice s0. Drivers go to some trouble to not print a slice number (sN) for the compatbility slice. wd0s1 actually has slice number 2. Slice number 0 is the compatibility slice and slice number 1 is the whole disk. To avoid confusion you should rarely think of slice numbers. The numbers are also confusing in ls output: brw-r----- 1 root operator 0, 131074 Nov 10 19:04 /dev/wd0s1 Here 1301074 is 0x200002 where the first `2' is the slice number and the second 2 is the partition number. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 01:08:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA18945 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:08:19 -0700 Received: from dkuug.dk (dkuug.dk [193.88.44.89]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA18937 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:08:00 -0700 Received: from kmd-ac.dk by dkuug.dk with UUCP id AA23663 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for FreeBSD.org!hackers); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:07:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199504250807.AA23663@dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:02:21 +0000 (GMT) From: "Soeren Schmidt" Cc: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250717.AAA05801@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 25, 95 00:17:36 am From: sos@FreeBSD.org (Soren Schmidt) Reply-To: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1023 X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Julian Elischer who wrote: > has anyone followed up on this? No, not really, but I've compiled my system with: -O2 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointer for a long time, no problems at all except for the csu/crt* stuff which must be compiled without -fomit-frame-pointer to work. > > /usr/libexec/ld.so fails horribly when compiled with "-fomit-frame-pointer". > > I learned the hard way :-( (after compiling /bin and /sbin dynamically...). hHmm, strange, that works fine for me. > > For the kernel compile, the functions dummyinit() in in kern/init_main.c > > and dummy_cleanup() in kern/kern_xxx.c get optimized away by gcc > > when compiling with an optimization setting higher than "-O2", e.g. > > "-O3". Thats right, I've seen this too (and fixed the ugly way :-) PS: julian do you still have the patches around ?? I'd inclined to look at it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@kmd-ac.dk) FreeBSD Core Team .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 01:11:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA18978 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:11:00 -0700 Received: from caern.protocorp.com ([198.147.97.66]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA18972 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:10:55 -0700 Received: from caern.leonardo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by caern.protocorp.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA00175; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:10:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199504250810.BAA00175@caern.protocorp.com> To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Colorado Tape Drive (floppy tape) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:36:56 EDT." <199504221836.OAA01099@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:10:15 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a note of info about Colorado tape drives. While talking with the Colorado Memory Systems rep this morning to get a return authorization number for my drive (motor failure), he mentioned some interesting things. I was trying to get him to send me hardware info on the drive, since he remarked that treating a 350 like a 250 will get you a 250's worth of data on the tape. He said he couldn't do that but that whoever was handling the Linux driver could get any info we needed. Humbling, but possibly useful. Apparently some new stuff in the driver would be useful to get everything a 350 can do. I just looked at the driver; perhaps an entry in the geometry table would do it but of course I really don't know. Also, when I told him the little light was blinking in bursts of four (which he said indicates motor failure), the first question out of his mouth was, "Do you have the drive mounted immediately above a CD-ROM drive?" It turns out that's exactly what the integrator who built my machine did. He says that has a tendency to cook Colorado drives due to heat, and recommended that I swap the mountings around so that a floppy drive intervenes between the CD-ROM and the Colorado tape drive. Hope this info is some use. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 02:30:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA21590 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:30:07 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21573 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:29:44 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA24082; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:25:13 +1000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:25:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504250925.TAA24082@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: comments on an attempted install Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The next problem I had was with the ed0 driver. I was planning on >installing via ftp. My net card (WD8003E) worked fine under Linux, >but I kept getting "ed0: device timeout" under FreeBSD. After hunting >on the net via the freebsd homepage I was able to search the man pages >and find docs on the ed0 errors. It was as I suspected -- the >FreeBSD driver wasn't looking on the same IRQ as the Linux driver did. >(I suspect the Linux driver hunts for the card on multiple IRQs, >because I never had to specify where it was.) I don't have docs The Linux driver does essentially `irqno = irqmap[inb(base_port + MAGIC_OFFSET) & MASK];' This fails for my WD8013EBT compatible card because `irqmap', `MAGIC_OFFSET' and `MASK' are wrong. I think the correct fix under Linux is to boot with Lilo and give a boot flag to specify the irq. The corresponding fix under FreeBSD is to boot with -c and set the irq. After you figure out the problem and the correct irq you can set the irq in a config file. For FreeBSD, the `dset' utility is normally run from /etc/rc to record the current config so that the irq gets set in /kernel (the wrong place) whether you want it or not. >BTW, swapfiles (a la Linux) may not be the greatest w.r.t. performance, >but on low diskspace machines they're a lifesaver. Besides, it seems FreeBSD has the more general `vn' driver. It allows any file to be used as a disk device. The disk device may have a swap partition as a special case. >like a waste of diskspace if you're sharing your machine between linux >and freebsd to have to devote a partition to swapping in each OS. >I'd rather stick a swapfile on a dos partition and share it between >linux, os/2, and freebsd. (Too bad OS/2 is the only one that doesn't >require some sort of special initialization for their swap files). This should be easier now that drivers support DOSpartitions better. I think the special initialization for using wd0s4 as a swap partition is simply `disklabel -r -w wd0s4 disktab_entry' followed by swapon. Swap devices have to be on partition 'b' so you can't have one on a whole slice. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 02:34:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA21725 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:34:47 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21718 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:34:45 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id LAA29958 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:34:43 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id LAA07033 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:34:42 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504250934.LAA07033@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: [to Install people] Re: comments on an attempted install To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:34:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, dgaudet@cs.ubc.ca, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250754.RAA21639@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 25, 95 05:54:01 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 471 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > numbers. The numbers are also confusing in ls output: > > brw-r----- 1 root operator 0, 131074 Nov 10 19:04 /dev/wd0s1 > > Here 1301074 is 0x200002 where the first `2' is the slice number and > the second 2 is the partition number. ls could print the major/minor # in /dev in hexadecimal... (half joking) :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 02:54:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA22342 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:54:08 -0700 Received: from is1.hk.super.net (jbeukema@is1.hk.super.net [202.14.67.232]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA22329 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 02:54:06 -0700 Received: by is1.hk.super.net id AA17168 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for Hackers ); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:54:01 +0800 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:54:01 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Hackers Subject: MHS <-> SMHP gateway Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks, jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 03:36:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA23834 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:36:53 -0700 Received: from tonic.gmd.de (tonic.gmd.de [192.76.247.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA23827 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:36:49 -0700 Received: (from dws@localhost) by tonic.gmd.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA03780; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:36:16 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:36:16 +0200 From: Dirk Steinberg Message-Id: <9504251036.ZM3779@tonic.gmd.de> In-Reply-To: "Soeren Schmidt" sos@FreeBSD.org (Soren Schmidt) "Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer'" (Apr 25, 10:02am) References: <199504250807.AA23658@dkuug.dk> Reply-To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: sos@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' Cc: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Apr 25, 10:02am, "Soeren Schmidt"Soren Schmidt wrote: > Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-fram > In reply to Julian Elischer who wrote: > > has anyone followed up on this? > > No, not really, but I've compiled my system with: > > -O2 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointer > > for a long time, no problems at all except for the csu/crt* stuff > which must be compiled without -fomit-frame-pointer to work. > > > > /usr/libexec/ld.so fails horribly when compiled with "-fomit-frame-pointer". > > > I learned the hard way :-( (after compiling /bin and /sbin dynamically...). > > hHmm, strange, that works fine for me. Well, ... I was dreaming when I wrote this. I actually remembered that the dynamic linking didn't work, but that was really due to the csu/crt* stuff. You may have noticed that my patches were refering to them, and not to ld.so. ld.so works fine when compiled with "-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer". I rebuild my complete system yesterday, and even linked init dynamically, and everything run wonderfully. Sorry for the misinformation. Dirk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dirk W. Steinberg - German National Research Center for Computer Science (GMD) Institute for Application-Oriented Software- and Systems Technology (ISA-NW) Network Engineering Department - Rathausallee 10 - D-53754 Sankt Augustin Phone: +49 2241 14-3182 - Fax: +49 2241 14-3038 - Email: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 03:47:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA24222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:47:16 -0700 Received: from tonic.gmd.de (tonic.gmd.de [192.76.247.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA24214 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 03:47:13 -0700 Received: (from dws@localhost) by tonic.gmd.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04107; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:46:08 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:46:08 +0200 From: Dirk Steinberg Message-Id: <9504251046.ZM4106@tonic.gmd.de> In-Reply-To: Dirk Steinberg "Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer'" (Apr 25, 12:36pm) References: <199504250807.AA23658@dkuug.dk> <9504251036.ZM3779@tonic.gmd.de> Reply-To: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), sos@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Patches to compile Kernel and Libraries with '-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer' Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Apr 25, 12:36pm, Dirk Steinberg wrote: > Well, ... I was dreaming when I wrote this. I actually remembered that > the dynamic linking didn't work, but that was really due to the csu/crt* > stuff. You may have noticed that my patches were refering to them, > and not to ld.so. ld.so works fine when compiled with "-O3 > -fomit-frame-pointer". > > I rebuild my complete system yesterday, and even linked init dynamically, > and everything run wonderfully. Oh, I forgot: I did yesterdays build with gcc ss-950414, and everything worked, except anything pertaining to C++ (libg++, groff, ...). I didn't look into this. Apart from C++, all seems to be well: the programs, the (shared) libraries and even the kernel. Dirk PS: The sup was 950423 PPS: It's funny to see: dws@porty:p0 ~ % /usr/libexec/cc1 -version GNU C version 2.6.3 (80386, BSD syntax) compiled by GNU C version 2.6.4 snapshot 950414. enabled: -fpeephole -ffunction-cse -freg-struct-return -fcommon -fgnu-linker -m80387 -mhard-float -mno-soft-float -mieee-fp -mfp-ret-in-387 -mno-fancy-math-387 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dirk W. Steinberg - German National Research Center for Computer Science (GMD) Institute for Application-Oriented Software- and Systems Technology (ISA-NW) Network Engineering Department - Rathausallee 10 - D-53754 Sankt Augustin Phone: +49 2241 14-3182 - Fax: +49 2241 14-3038 - Email: Dirk.Steinberg@gmd.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 04:45:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA25940 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:45:25 -0700 Received: from dearnpc.gmd.de (dearnpc.gmd.de [192.76.247.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25932 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:45:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199504251145.EAA25932@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from vm.gmd.de by dearnpc.gmd.de (SF for OpenVMS v1.0-a) with SMTP id 317A7F47 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:44:47 +0200 Received: from VM.GMD.DE by vm.gmd.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6271; Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:39:10 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2519; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:39:10 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7294; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:40:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:38:49 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: xntpd patches for dcf77 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have finally got xntpd to work with the Boeder DCF77 receiver. When ftp.freebsd.org is alive again I will put the patches in incoming. Vincenzo Ciao, Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 04:45:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA25962 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:45:43 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA25954 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:45:42 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04081; Tue, 25 Apr 95 06:44:56 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504251144.AA04081@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway To: jbeukema@HK.Super.Net (John Beukema) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:44:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Apr 25, 95 05:54:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 511 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > point me in the right direction? >From direct (unfortunately!) experience, I can tell you that MajorBBS has a MHS to UUCP gateway available, as an add-on package... probably not what you're looking for, but worth a mention. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 05:45:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA00676 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:45:29 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA00668 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:45:27 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14628; Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:44:28 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA12143; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:44:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:44:48 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504251244.AA12143@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA070353887; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:44:47 -0600 To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, nate@trout.sri.mt.net, terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11135.798782187@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> I'd kill for digest format. Hear, hear. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Whenever the phone rings, get up and answer the door. -- One of 120 ways to annoy your roommate. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 05:52:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA01084 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:52:27 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA01075 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:52:25 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14660; Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:51:54 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA12272; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:52:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:52:15 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504251252.AA12272@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA070404333; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:52:13 -0600 To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11034.798782057@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> You'll be basically making an appeal to everyone's good Jordan> nature and _strongly suggesting_ that people who've Jordan> enjoyed the benefits of the service contribute something Jordan> at some point. I like this idea. While it's been a personal goal to help out at least one person every day on the -questions or the newsgroup, I'm sure there are some who just got missed and have to wonder if there's ``anybody back there.'' If newbie registration and adoption services will help prevent those from falling through the cracks, then sign me up. Jordan> Sort of like the blood banks do. Not that I'm sure I like Jordan> that particular simile.. :-) I ... kind of, uh, ... LIKE it ... . -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA TASK: Go the the store. In OS/2: After fueling up with 6000 gallons of gas, you get in the car and drive to the store with a motorcycle escort and a marching band in procession. Halfway there, the car blows up, killing everybody in town. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 05:58:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA01459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:58:29 -0700 Received: from ess.harris.com (su15a.ess.harris.com [130.41.1.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA01451 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:58:27 -0700 Received: from borg.ess.harris.com (suw2k.ess.harris.com) by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA14450; Tue, 25 Apr 95 08:58:22 EDT Received: by borg.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14103; Tue, 25 Apr 95 08:56:11 EDT Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 08:56:11 EDT From: jleppek@suw2k.ess.harris.com (James Leppek) Message-Id: <9504251256.AA14103@borg.ess.harris.com> To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary, > > I think this should only happen once a newbie has truly _in their own mind_ > > made the transition to `helper' status and actually really wants to help. > > Most folks will find the pay-back nature of the arrangement only natural > > and fair, but those that don't shouldn't be forced into it - they'll only > > provide bad support for some other poor new newbie! > > OK, I hear what you are saying and I do agree. I'm a strong believer in > the principle that `assisting others is the best way to learn something > yourself'. I want the `helpees' to really feel an obligation to > contribute and when they do they'll derive additional benefit for > themselves anyway. There is always going to be a shortage of helpers > and I do want to capitalise on that `good feeling' that should result > from being given `personalised' help. If you think about it, it's just > like a chain letter and we don't want breaks in the chain :->. > > So do we just remind helpees that when they feel _comfortable_ about it > they will be followed up and asked to take on another new user? > > This is a great idea but you cannot force a feeling of obligation. I assist many "newbies" in my area, but the experience that is needed to go from newbie -> neophyte -> user -> sys-admin -> guru is a long path. You do not want folks to be pushed into that situation, it is bad for the newbie and for the poor neophyte or user. I guess I am saying this is a great idea but lets keep it strictly voluntary, no strings attached. Oh and sign me up :-) Jim > -- > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 06:12:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA02189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:12:25 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA02183 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:12:23 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:18 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17557; Tue, 25 Apr 95 23:12:07 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504251312.AA17557@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: jleppek@suw2k.ess.harris.com (James Leppek) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:07 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504251256.AA14103@borg.ess.harris.com> from "James Leppek" at Apr 25, 95 08:56:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 923 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk James Leppek writes: > > So do we just remind helpees that when they feel _comfortable_ about it > > they will be followed up and asked to take on another new user? > > > > This is a great idea but you cannot force a feeling of obligation. > I assist many "newbies" in my area, but the experience that is > needed to go from newbie -> neophyte -> user -> sys-admin -> guru > is a long path. You do not want folks to be pushed into that > situation, it is bad for the newbie and for the poor neophyte or user. > > I guess I am saying this is a great idea but lets keep it strictly > voluntary, no strings attached. > > Oh and sign me up :-) Thanks Jim, consider yourself signed :->. Once we get everything organised, I'll be in touch with further details. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 07:13:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA07456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:13:05 -0700 Received: from sass165.sandia.gov (sass165.sandia.gov [132.175.109.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07442 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:13:01 -0700 Received: from amor.mdl.sandia.gov (amor.mdl.sandia.gov [134.253.20.147]) by sass165.sandia.gov (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA25414 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:18:42 -0600 Received: (aflundi@localhost) by amor.mdl.sandia.gov (8.6.10) id IAA16296 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:12:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199504251412.IAA16296@amor.mdl.sandia.gov> From: aflundi@sandia.gov (Alan F Lundin) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:12:53 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd)" (Apr 24, 8:35pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Apr 24, 8:35pm, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > Subject: Re: Windows emulator for Linux (fwd) > > What do we need to do to the contrib file to SGML-ify it and get > something similar? We won't get descriptions from everyone, but if we > can identify most of the principle players by description-of-contribution > and phone number then that will be a good thing! How about a Usenix proceedings style 1 or 2 paragraph bio with GIF for each of the core members followed by a caldera style contrib list. (The core team has done so much and worked so hard, they deserve some extra recoqnition!) --alan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 07:23:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08700 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:23:15 -0700 Received: from ns.ge.com (ns.ge.com [192.35.39.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08682 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:23:12 -0700 Received: from thomas.ge.com ([3.47.28.21]) by ns.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA29830; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:23:03 -0400 Received: from salem.ge.com (carsdb.salem.ge.com [3.29.7.15]) by thomas.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA23332; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:23:01 -0400 Received: from combs.salem.ge.com by salem.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24996; Tue, 25 Apr 95 10:23:11 EDT Received: (from steve@localhost) by combs.salem.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA04873; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:23:11 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:23:11 -0400 From: "Stephen F. Combs" Message-Id: <199504251423.KAA04873@combs.salem.ge.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jbeukema@HK.Super.Net Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We use a product called 'XGATE' from Infinite Technologies which has worked quite well for us as an MHS to SMTP gateway. Infinite Technologies 11433 Cronridge Drive Suite H Owings Mills, MD 21117 Sales: (410)363-1097 FAX: (410)363-3779 Hope this helps! =============================================================================== Stephen F. Combs GGGGGG EEEEEE IIIII SSSSSS &&&& SSSSSS The General Electric Co G E I S & & S GE Industry Sales & Services G E I S & & S Network Services G EEEE I SSSSSS && SSSSSS 1501 Roanoke Blvd G GG E I S & & S Salem, VA 24153 G G E I S & & S Internet: CombsSF@salem.ge.com G G E I S & && S voice: 703.387.8828 GGGGGG EEEEEE IIIII SSSSSS &&&&& SSSSSS =============================================================================== > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Tue Apr 25 09:23:10 1995 > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:54:01 +0800 (HKT) > From: John Beukema > To: Hackers > Subject: MHS <-> SMHP gateway > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org > Content-Length: 124 > > > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > point me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > jbeukema > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 08:09:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14343 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:09:09 -0700 Received: from ashe.cs.tcd.ie (ashe.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.32.17]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA14332 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:09:04 -0700 Received: from liebfraumilch by ashe.cs.tcd.ie with SMTP (PP) id <09375-0@ashe.cs.tcd.ie>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:56:40 +0000 X-Sender: detobin@ashe.cs.tcd.ie Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:56:42 +0100 To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly), jkh@freefall.cdrom.com From: donal.tobin@cs.tcd.ie (Donal Tobin) Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 8:44 am 25/4/95, Sean Kelly wrote: * >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: * * Jordan> I'd kill for digest format. * * Hear, hear. I have this funny feeling that the newest versions of MajorDomo do digest automatically. Check out the Xmission music lists for an example, they have it working there, or maybe they have hacked majordomo. Donal. VOo=-+*+-=oOVOo=-+*+-=oOVOo=-+*+-=oOVOo=-+*+-=oOVOo=-+*+-=oOV | Donal.Tobin@tcd.ie | When you get carried away | | +353-1-608-1797 | by enthusiasm you may be lucky | | Will take MIME & PGP | if you can hitch-hike it back. | AOo=-+*+-=oOAOo=-+*+-=oOAOo=-+*+-=oOAOo=-+*+-=oOAOo=-+*+-=oOA Info here :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 08:09:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14360 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:09:14 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA14346 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:09:09 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA21299; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:04:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: James Leppek cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504251256.AA14103@borg.ess.harris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, James Leppek wrote: > This is a great idea but you cannot force a feeling of obligation. > I assist many "newbies" in my area, but the experience that is > needed to go from newbie -> neophyte -> user -> sys-admin -> guru the curve is exponential---especially when trying to keep up with the mailings and the commit mail. ack! Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 08:10:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14576 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:10:49 -0700 Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA14558 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:10:41 -0700 Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA00347; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:09:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:09:55 -0400 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199504251509.LAA00347@nomad.osmre.gov> To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <9504250101.AA15300@wcs.uq.edu.au> (message from Gary Roberts on Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:01:25 +1000 (EST)) Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sounds great, put me down as a volunteer newbie helper. I certainly fit the qualifications as "semi-skilled!" I have done several dozen successful FreeBSD (and 386bsd) installs and have already helped several CNBs (Clueless NewBies) but I am a long way from being a guru. In addition to your fine proposals below you may want to consider a mechanism to reassign those being helped should the first helper assigned be inappropriate for that particular person's needs. This, of course, would be done without prejudice to either the helper's or the CNB's status. It would also be very helpful for the helpers to be able to ask a guru should they need a better understanding of whatever issues arise during the helping process or "bump up" the CNB to a "real guru" should problems be greater than the helper's expertise can resolve. For example, I solve the "MBR EIDE disk problem" by choosing SCSI disks when I need large disks. I don't really understand what the deal is with this (I don't run DOS either). Actually, we need a better vocabulary to talk about all this, "newbie" and "helper" are probably not appropriate, perhaps "guide" or "mentor" would be a good term for the latter (and "CNB" could become "de mented" :-) How about a catchy project name, acronym, and slogan, how about: "FreeBSD Mentoring Corps" (FreeMC), "Free Clues for Free OS's!" I think a 30 day maximum is appropriate, of course individual mentors could choose to extend this at their option. Mentors should be able to temporarily stop handling CNBs should their workload become heavy or, for example, if they go on a vacation (I have heard that some people actually do this from time to time). I like the idea of making CNBs go to the bottom of the mentor list but I suspect that most of them will not be able to help others very much at first so I don't think it should be mandatory. Besides, where do the folks who refuse this condition go, to the hacker's list or the well-meaning developers (which resulted in this initiative in the first place)? Finally, it would be good to make arrangements, as much as possible, for CNBs to receive assistance from someone who speaks their native language. Glen Foster > From: Gary Roberts > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:01:25 +1000 (EST) > > OK, having been stupid enough to put my hand up in the first place, here > is what I see myself being able to do. > > 1. I agree to act as a `registration point' for willing `lurkers'. If you > are willing to help, I would maintain your details on a centralised list. > You would only get one newbie at a time unless you agreed to take more. > You don't have to be a `lurker', just willing to `adopt a newbie'. > (I've already put Terry down for 50. With his volume of output he > should easily be able to handle that number :-> ;-> :->.) (Although > with his 20% `confusion' factor [according to Julian was it??] maybe > that isn't such a good idea -- it'd probably be 90% with newbies :->.) > > All jokes aside, I just wanted to make it clear that the helpers list > would be very much open to all and not limited to one newbie at a time. > > 2. I would produce a suitable `announcement' of the service which would > be posted say once a month (or whatever). > > 3. I would receive all requests from newbies and send them a standard > acknowledgement, pointing out that their commitment would be to take > on a newbie themselves at the end of their `hand-holding' period. > If they agreed to the conditions, I would allocate them to a helper. > > 4. At the end of the hand-holding period (how long do people feel this > should be??) the newbie name would be transferred automatically to > the bottom of the helper list and they would be automatically given > the next newbie. > > 5. Helpers can withdraw at any time *after* handling 1 newbie. This > would be the basic minimum commitment of a helper/ex-newbie. > > 6. I would try to do this `by hand' unless some scripting expert could > come up with some automated scheme to handle it. > > This is all just `off the top of my head' at the moment. Please feedback > suggestions/comments as you see fit. > > Cheers, > -- > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 08:41:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA18077 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:41:13 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA18070 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:41:09 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA03851 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:40:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:40:57 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504251540.KAA03851@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Content-Length: 143 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk we tried this news <-> mail gateway in the 386BSD days, and in my opinion it was a disaster. Eventually the mailling list was killed. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 08:45:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA18334 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:45:29 -0700 Received: from netcom23.netcom.com (root@netcom23.netcom.com [192.100.81.137]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA18323 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:45:24 -0700 From: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com Received: from lashley.slip.netcom.com by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id IAA06753; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:44:42 -0700 Received: by lashley.slip.netcom.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10160; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:48:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:48:41 -0700 Message-Id: <9504251548.AA10160@lashley.slip.netcom.com> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, nate@trout.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |> > > To the contrary, *make*ing the Linux shlib's is a pain in the butt, |> > > while it's a very easy process to create a SunOS-like shlib. |> > |> > That will change with the introduction of the ELF format for binaries. |> > They will have the same ease of use and it seems not that slower either from |> > the report I got from my Linux's friends. |> |> Actually, folks I have talked to have given me the exact opposite |> report. And some people on the newsgroups have complained about the |> switch to ELF binaries since they are significantly slower than the |> original shlib implementation. |> |> I think our shlib implementatio is still probably slower than the ELF |> shlib stuff, but I suspect it's not much anymore. One thing that helps quite a bit, independant of object file format, is what the Sun folks call a 'symbol hiding linker'. Basicly, it is linker extensions that let the developer specify which symbols are to be exported, and which ones are local to the library itself. Reducing the final symbol table size speeds the dynamic linking at execution time. -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 09:00:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA19202 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:00:59 -0700 Received: from panther.ferrum.edu (panther.ferrum.edu [192.190.252.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA19194 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:00:56 -0700 Received: (from dunn@localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04363 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:00:19 -0400 From: "James E. Dunn" Message-Id: <199504251600.MAA04363@panther.ferrum.edu> Subject: MX record problem To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:00:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1080 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm hoping that somebody could give me some direction with this MX record error... I'm sure that I had this working, but last week I started getting mail like this: ---CUT HERE--- From daemon Tue Apr 25 11:55:05 1995 Received: from localhost (localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9)... From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error Message-Id: <199504251555.LAA04252@panther.ferrum.edu> To: postmaster Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- dunn@ferrum.edu (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 MX list for ferrum.edu. points back to panther.ferrum.edu 554 dunn@ferrum.edu... Local configuration error ---CUT HERE--- Thanks. Jim -- __ /| | "I came... I saw... I e-mail'd..." :-) | \'o.O' | C'mon, you know who this is! Jim | =(___)= | dunn@ferrum.edu | U | "Rrrrrrr! Phhhhht! Rrrrrrr!" -Patches | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 09:43:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA00194 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:43:48 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00177 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:43:35 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id JAA19745 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:07:59 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id CAA04495; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:07:51 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199504251607.CAA04495@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: xntpd patches for dcf77 To: VCAPUANO@VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (Vincenzo Capuano) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:07:49 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251145.EAA25932@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Vincenzo Capuano" at Apr 25, 95 01:38:49 pm Reply-To: imb@scgt.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1013 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Vincenzo Capuano writes: > I have finally got xntpd to work with the Boeder DCF77 receiver. > When ftp.freebsd.org is alive again I will put the patches in incoming. Whilst we're waiting, I've noted that, if I define an alias address for the ethernet interface, xntpd doesn't listen on it .. e.g. .. ifconfig ed0 inet 202.14.234.69 netmask 255.255.255.240 ifconfig ed0 inet alias 202.12.127.65 netmask 255.255.255.240 .. but xntpd only listens on 202.14.234.69 (and 127.0.0.1, of course). By way of explanation, I have two class C subnets on the one ether as a consequence of a transition between them (which is taking longer than I really want :-(). The other observation is that I can't say .. "addserver 127.127.1.15" to xntpdc which usually allows xntpd to use the local clock as a reference when my PPP link gets saturated to the point of disturbing the measurements beyond the dispersion limits. It complains of "refclock_newpeer: clock type 1 invalid", yet LOCAL_CLOCK is defined :-( michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 09:54:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA00466 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:54:45 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00460 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:54:44 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA07511; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:54:07 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504251654.JAA07511@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504251548.AA10160@lashley.slip.netcom.com> from "patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com" at Apr 25, 95 08:48:41 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 636 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One thing that helps quite a bit, independant of object file format, > is what the Sun folks call a 'symbol hiding linker'. Basicly, it is > linker extensions that let the developer specify which symbols are to > be exported, and which ones are local to the library itself. Reducing > the final symbol table size speeds the dynamic linking at execution time. This would be VERY nice. Who adds an option to ld -X Export only these symbols. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:02:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA00945 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:02:04 -0700 Received: from mercury.unt.edu (mercury.unt.edu [129.120.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA00937 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:02:01 -0700 Received: from gab.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA03309 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:02:00 -0500 Received: from GAB/MAILQUEUE by gab.unt.edu (Mercury 1.13); Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:02:01 CST6CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by GAB (Mercury 1.13); Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:01:46 CST6CDT From: "John Booth" Organization: University of North Texas To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:01:45 CST6CDT Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1C2FF887AE5@gab.unt.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on > > the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? > > I'd kill for digest format. > Nod, me too!!!. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- College of Arts & Sciences Computing Services John A. Booth, john@gab.unt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:13:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01769 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:13:37 -0700 Received: from mercury.unt.edu (mercury.unt.edu [129.120.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01759 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:13:34 -0700 Received: from gab.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA03591 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:14 -0500 Received: from GAB/MAILQUEUE by gab.unt.edu (Mercury 1.13); Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:12:15 CST6CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by GAB (Mercury 1.13); Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:12:02 CST6CDT From: "John Booth" Organization: University of North Texas To: Joe Greco Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:11:58 CST6CDT Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <1C32B5440CE@gab.unt.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > > point me in the right direction? > > From direct (unfortunately!) experience, I can tell you that MajorBBS has a > MHS to UUCP gateway available, as an add-on package... probably not what > you're looking for, but worth a mention. > Although this may not pertain to the list. David Harris has a few products that should help you. I belive the Chaeron package he makes will work as a MHS to Internet gateway. He should be able to fill you in. His E- mail address is david@pmail.gen.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- College of Arts & Sciences Computing Services John A. Booth, john@gab.unt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:26:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02309 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:26:12 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02298 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:26:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00233; Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:19:02 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504251719.AA00233@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:19:01 MDT Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504251548.AA10160@lashley.slip.netcom.com> from "patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com" at Apr 25, 95 08:48:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One thing that helps quite a bit, independant of object file format, > is what the Sun folks call a 'symbol hiding linker'. Basicly, it is > linker extensions that let the developer specify which symbols are to > be exported, and which ones are local to the library itself. Reducing > the final symbol table size speeds the dynamic linking at execution time. Clearly, this would also resolve the problem of "curses" with the C++ libraries. The problem in the current implementation that prevents this is that the link does not "run to completion" as it would with a normal library archive; that is, instead of dragging in only the externally referenced code from the shared lib as linked dynamic symbols and then dragging in only the library data referenced by the code in the program and the code previously dragged in, all data and all code are dragged in. This is an inevitable result of not using an archive format for the shared library objects so they can be pulled in an object at a time (or not), which is what you do with normal library archives. This has long been a pain in my rear. I think there is a distinction to be made between mapping the library into the user's address space and actually consuming or linking the symbols runtime. It's quite possible to shorten the list via directed graph without going to a fully symbol hiding linker (if an archive format is used instead of using ld to build a single object module). Crude symbol hiding is what Linux currently uses to draw the distinction between exported and non-exported kernel interfaces to achive AIX-like exported symbol lists for use by loadable kernel modules. Combined with the relocation located in the kernel, they have an extremely powerful (AIX-like) kernel module mechanism that can include things like one module causing another to be demand loaded (currently impossible in BSD because of the inability to load modules with a purely kernel interface based on computing transitive closure over a module dependency list, and the dependencies in the module depended on, etc.). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:36:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02622 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:36:17 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02608 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:36:12 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA12140; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:40:10 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:40:10 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504251740.LAA12140@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: benchmark hell.." (Apr 25, 11:19am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com Subject: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ only exporting specified symbols in shlibs ] > Clearly, this would also resolve the problem of "curses" with the > C++ libraries. The problem with this is that we are now placing a migh bigger load on the developer to specify which symbols to be exported, rather than having the compiler do it with judicious use of static and extern as it is currently. > The problem in the current implementation that prevents this is that > the link does not "run to completion" as it would with a normal library > archive; that is, instead of dragging in only the externally referenced > code from the shared lib as linked dynamic symbols and then dragging in > only the library data referenced by the code in the program and the code > previously dragged in, all data and all code are dragged in. This is a problem in the current implementation, but Paul's intention was to mimic Sun-style shlibs, which he has done pretty well. > This is an inevitable result of not using an archive format for the > shared library objects so they can be pulled in an object at a time (or > not), which is what you do with normal library archives. This would solve some of the problems I've been trying to work out, but it would mean a re-write of most of the code, which is IMHO not worth it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:38:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02917 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:38:58 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02911 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:38:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00311; Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:31:48 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504251731.AA00311@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:31:47 MDT Cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199504250440.OAA15562@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 25, 95 02:40:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The correct way to run comparative benchmarks is to boot a DOS disk > >and fdisk/mbr the same machine and installl on the same machine over > >and over with the different OS's. Not "identical hardware", the same > >machine. > > What is ``DOS''? :-> The correct way is to boot a boot disk for the > OS being tested and erase all traces of the previous OS... I guess that could be done, if you trusted the previous OS to not do anything to sabatoge performance (for instance, many EIDE drives come with boot blocks that have built in INT 13 redirectors for geometry translation, with the net effect that UFS will incorrectly optimize for the disk geometry, actually reducing performance. [ ... delayed FPU switching ... ] > Actually, this is because FreeBSD doesn't waste a whole 108 bytes in the > proc table for the FPU state and no one wants to handle the complications > and probable slowness of updating paged-out FPU contexts after delayed > FPU context switches. The simple answer to this is to not switch that part of the proc. > It takes a fairly special benchmark to demonstrate the speed advantages > of delayed context switches. I disagree; all it takes is a single process benchmark with a typical 20 or 30 processes running meanwhile that aren't using FPU. > FreeBSD's low level context switching is faster than Linux's because > hardware tasking is not used. Perhaps there is a lot more bloat in > other layers of the context switching. (Yes, there is. E.g., calling > microtime() for each context switch is very expensive except on > Pentiums). microtime() has to be called so that FreeBSD can do better > timing statistics and scheduling than Linux. ) However, for real > processes, context switching is relatively rare, so small differences > (less than a factor of 2-10) in the speed of context switching don't > matter. The microtime requirement is a result of the timer interval being equal to the lbolt interval for mandatory context switch. I've argued this before. > Actually, copyin/copyout are faster in FreeBSD, except on 386's. For > copyin, the check consists of setting up a fault handler, checking > that the addresses are covered by the user segment registers, and > letting the h/w check for page faults. For copyout, the page tables > have to be checked directly only for 386's. The problem in this approach is that you are taking preventative action. I will treat this in more detail in my response to Charles' post. > copyinstr() is poorly implemented iin FreeBSD. However, I've never seen > it showing up in profiling output. Then you haven't been looking right. Remember the hoo-rah about the speed of a rename? This is part of the problem there. If we consider BSD as a file server candidate, then we have to acknowledge that 70% of file system operations are reads, 18% are writes, 8% are lookups including 'open' (it this 8% that gets hit), with the remaining 4% being all other operations. Or we could not acknowledge it, and be obligated to study the problem as thoroughly as Novell has studied the problem to prove our point (or prove ourselves wrong). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 10:56:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03991 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:56:03 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03960 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:55:32 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id DAA12458 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 03:55:06 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199504251755.DAA12458@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: async mounts .. bogus ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 03:55:04 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: imb@scgt.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1624 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was experimenting with the async mount attribute in an effort to speed up this machine's handling of news but observed two problems .. asstdc:~ vmstat -m Memory statistics by bucket size Size In Use Free Requests HighWater Couldfree 16 2220 84 33639 1280 0 32 2906 166 70384 640 0 64 1516 20 165344 320 0 128 3255 105 383276 160 0 256 1538 206 235258 80 4 512 18 6 30 40 0 1K 18 6 473678 20 0 2K 9 1 9 10 0 4K 11 1 75 5 0 8K 38 7 162 5 97 <---- where from ??? :-) 16K 4 0 4 5 0 Memory usage type by bucket size Size Type(s) [ .. ] 8K VM pgdata, temp [ .. ] Memory statistics by type Type Kern Type InUse MemUse HighUse Limit Requests Limit Limit Size(s) [ .. ] VM pgdata 1736 370K 437K 11367K 48362 0 0 16,32,64,128,256,512,1K,2K,8K [ .. ] temp 22 9K 17K 11367K 430 0 0 16,32,128,256,1K,4K,8K ttys 152 23K 27K 11367K 499 0 0 128,2K,4K Memory Totals: In Use Free Requests 1469K 144K 1361859 .. ultimately, I came back into the room to find that it had rebooted itself in order to dispense with my alteration :-(. Is "mount -o async" still bogus in 950412-SNAP (which is what I'm running) ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 11:15:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA05189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:15:18 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA05178 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:15:15 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00479; Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:08:46 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504251808.AA00479@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: mycroft@ai.mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:08:44 MDT Cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199504250710.DAA08689@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> from "Charles M. Hannum" at Apr 25, 95 03:10:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The BSD model > for the actual switch itself is very close to the UnixWare/Solaris model, > but is missing delayed storage of the FPU registers on a switch. > > Speak for yourself, please. NetBSD has been doing delayed switching > for a while now. Part of my campaign to refuse to acknowledge factions in the BSD camp. You'll also notice a studious lack of "we", "us", "they", "our", and "them" when discussing relative issues. > That depends on what you mean by a `switch'. You still have to set > the `task switched' flag on a switch out, and take a fault next time > something uses the FPU. You could recognize that the process you're > switching into was the last one using the FPU and automatically turn > off the flag when switching back in. Currently, I don't do that, > though I may change that RSN. Yes, recognising that the cache contents aren't stale is an obvious optimization. You don't have to take a fault if a fault condition has not occurred. The main issue is that FPU using processes are less frequent than those that do use the FPU. > You only need a `FPU was used' flag per process if you're doing > delayed initialization. For primarily integer-only applications, > delaying the FPU initialization would be a win (albeit a *very* small > one), but it would require an extra test in the FPU context switching > code, which would be a smaller but frequent hit for FPU-intensive > applications. I agree. But I was not suggesting delayed initialization, I was suggesting an initial run-time trapping of the first FPU instruction for a process by redirecting the interrupt when switching in a process that hasn't used the FPU. The alternative would be flag generation by the linker in the executable header to indicate an FPU using process (even if the code path is never hit -- for instance the "printf" shell command or whatever that is floating point capable but not necessarily floating point active). The point would be that you would pretend not have an FPU, trap to what would normally be emulation code, fixup the flag on the process, fixup the pointer on the trap code to point to the real FPU or the emulator, depending on the box, then restart the operation. This is tanatamount to the runtime linking which occurs in the shared library symbol resoloution fixup. If it is determined that another process was using the FPU prior to this, you save the context there, as if the flag had been set. The idea here is that by default, processes are assumed to not use the FPU, and thus by default the FPU trap results in code fixup rather than FPU operations. Thus it does not matter which FPU operation is used first. > (With a slight kluge, it may be possible to combine this with the > check for whether you're using the emulator or not, and eliminate the > extra bit altogether. I'll have to try this.) I think this is entirely feasable (see above). The question becomes the same as that for dynamic linking, which is are you going to eat a runtime penalty for doing this or a link time penalty. [ ... split page protection/domain crossing (copyin/copyout/copyinstr) ... ] > And it is precisely this that will screw Linux for SMP systems. What > if someone else changes a page protection after you've already checked > it for `security'? Answer: You don't need a programmer error to > create a security hole. I disagree. The page protection check is only applicable to a region of memory in the user process -- the target of the operation. The only issue you need to worry about is additional kernel processes operating in the user domain of the process (not the kernel domain). This is because the only allowable source/target for the copy operations is a user space buffer. The worst that can possibly happen is that the user process is crashed *if* the user process is multithreaded *and* the threads map to multiple *kernel* threads *and* the system is SMP or kernel preemptive. And even then, the only thing that can do the crashing is a thread in the process itself. The only place this is a danger is in a hosted non-preemptive multitasking OS, and they are already notorious for lacking memory protection domains internally anyway in their non-hosted incarnations (NetWare, Windows). > The region of memory needs to be locked between the time the security > check is done and the last use of it. There are a few ways to do > this: > > 1) Only run on single-processor machines. > > 2) Only allow one processor to be executing in the kernel at a time. > > 3) Lock all memory mapped by a process when it enters the kernel, and > unlock it when exiting the kernel (being careful about the case of the > process dying, of course). > > 4) Lock memory when it is tested by verify_area(), and unlock it when > exiting the kernel. (This is the `best option' in Linux, without > changing the interfaces.) This is actually the best option, period. The BSD "suggested" mechanism below still allows problems in a kernel multithreaded environment. This is because there is assumed state to the operation for which the memory is being protected. In a single tasking non-preemptive kernel, you are implicitly protected for assumed state by the fact that you will run to logical completion rather than being preempted during a reentry of the same code. The use of multiple processers in the kernel is exactly analogous to kernel preemption, and the only real difference in implementation is the synchronization primitives being mutexes instead of semaphores to ensure interprocesser synchronization instead of intraprocesser synchronization between multiple threads of control. > 5) Lock memory only for the duration of a copy operation. (This is > what the BSD interfaces suggest doing.) > > Given that the BSD kernel is carefully tuned to limit the number of > situations in which repeated accesses are done to the same user memory > region, and that such tuning is fairly easy to do, the last option is > definitely the most attractive. I would argue that this is intrinsically limited by the processes themselves on a locality of reference basis. Further, I'd argue that splitting the kernel and user protection domains while in the kernel resolves the issue quite nicely. Instead of checking the legality of the operation, you proceed with the operation, and if you aren't on an i386, if it's illegal, you'll get a fault and if it's not, the operation will be significantly faster than prophalactic checking would cause it to be. One result of this is that calls must take care to not take both a read and a write argument from user space, since there is no distinction between protection domains from an allowability standpoint, only the verification that they are indeed different. This resolves the illegal read address hole that typically shows up in a poor protection environment. You can achieve this rather simply by never mapping the user portions of the address space simultaneously -- you run each of your contexts in seoerate domains. The logical side effect of this is the creation of an additional protection domain for the kernel seperate from the domain in which copy operations take lace. That is, movement between protection domains is externally arbitrated. This is one of the things the Chorus microkernel does that results in it being significantly lower overhead than Mach. Mach suffers from an overabundance of domain crossing and domain checking in the crossing. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 11:19:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA05560 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:19:39 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05552 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:19:36 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <146>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:33:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:33:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504190021.RAA00473@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently picked up a Buslogic 946C, but I found that performance is very poor. Any tips on improving performance under FreeBSD? I'm confused by the fact that is says "async only". The manual indicates that is can do synchronous transfers, and the disk info option in AutoSCSI says that all the disks support synchronous transfer. Sync negotiation and fast SCSI have been enabled as well. Is this a limitation of the driver? bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 async bt0: targ 1 async bt0: targ 2 async bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme bt0 at 0xe800 irq 11 on eisa slot 14 bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) (bt0:1:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) (bt0:2:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 11:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA05742 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:22:12 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA05733 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:22:10 -0700 Received: from tartufo.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA22921; Tue, 25 Apr 95 11:12:18 -0700 Received: by tartufo.pcs.dec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:12 MSZ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:12 MSZ From: me@tartufo.pcs.dec.com (Michael Elbel) To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups Newsgroups: pcs.freebsd.hackers References: <9504250302.AA15637@wcs.uq.edu.au> <11034.798782057@freefall.cdrom.com> Reply-To: me@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In pcs.freebsd.hackers you write: >person in the helpers queue. This is exactly how "The USENET Oracle" >works, incidently (and I challenge anyone here to identify any of the >3 of my contributions that made it into the Oracularities.. :-) [Except >you, Michael! :)] You should have included less chainsaws. Everyone can tell it's from you if there's chainsaws in it :-D Michael -- Michael Elbel, PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@FreeBSD.org Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 11:48:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA07401 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:48:35 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA07393 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:48:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00684; Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:42:04 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504251842.AA00684@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway To: jbeukema@HK.Super.Net (John Beukema) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:42:03 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Apr 25, 95 05:54:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > point me in the right direction? Bryan_Cardoza@Novell.COM installed the one at Novell. It was a bunch of Perl scripts, from what I rememebr, and is publically available ...uh, somewhere. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:12:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08918 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:50 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA08910 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:50 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA08039; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:38 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504251912.MAA08039@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251540.KAA03851@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Apr 25, 95 10:40:57 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 442 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > we tried this news <-> mail gateway in the 386BSD days, and in my opinion > it was a disaster. Eventually the mailling list was killed. We didn't try it ONE WAY..... and I think 'hackers' should be gated ONE-WAY and 'anonymously..' you can respond to the sender, but there should be no mention of 'hackers' in the headers... 'quetions' on the other hand could be gated one way, with a Reply: to filed set to 'Answers' > > --mark. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:17:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09212 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:17:10 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09204 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:17:08 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA23326 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:19:39 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504251919.PAA23326@haven.ios.com> Subject: Latest SNAP - inst.problems (PCI/BT946c). To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:19:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1050 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I tried to install the latest SNAP on the P-90/PCI/BT946c SCSI controller. Everything went pretty smoothly , till I was asked to remove a CPIO floppy and reboot from HDD. I saw the boot prompt, system started loading kernel text, data - and it went very quickly, but then stopped on symbols loading message ... Very weird : the bar which revolves when there is loading activity, was revolving for a moment, then stopped for few seconds and the same stuff again - in a loop. Ad finitum,but I only waited for few minutes. I reinstalled the system - but the same thing occured again :( So finally I decided to install old SNAP - 020295. And it worked out w/o any problems - I was able to run "bin" install thru ftp. Any clue ? Personally I think that latest SNAP ( 0412 ) have much more problems with ( at least ) installation phase, than one from February - looking at the letter we have here at questions@ and hackers@ PS the motherboard is Intel's , though the brand name of the PC itself is absolutely unknown to me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:18:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09293 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:18:21 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA09283 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:18:19 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00815; Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:11:41 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504251911.AA00815@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 13:11:40 MDT Cc: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251740.LAA12140@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 25, 95 11:40:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ only exporting specified symbols in shlibs ] > > > Clearly, this would also resolve the problem of "curses" with the > > C++ libraries. > > The problem with this is that we are now placing a migh bigger load on > the developer to specify which symbols to be exported, rather than > having the compiler do it with judicious use of static and extern as it > is currently. Not true; there is very little difference topologically between not exporting more than you need to and not importing more than you need to. The second case can be made automatic if the shared libs were not monolithic .o files. > > This is an inevitable result of not using an archive format for the > > shared library objects so they can be pulled in an object at a time (or > > not), which is what you do with normal library archives. > > This would solve some of the problems I've been trying to work out, but > it would mean a re-write of most of the code, which is IMHO not worth it. It's worth it for the C++ curses problems and it's worth it for unused virtual bas classes from a c++ library. It's also worth it in the reduction of available symbol space. On th other hand, the use of dlopen does imply that the opened object "overlay" will be able to link itself agains the existing libraries in the binar itself instead of necessarily being stand alone code that *only* exports interfaces. It's probably time to consider ABI standardization by agreement between the BSD and Linux camps rather than by administrative fiat. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:19:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09380 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:19:21 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09374 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:19:20 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA08076 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:19:19 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504251919.MAA08076@ref.tfs.com> Subject: FAQ mailing list To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 233 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a (or could there be) an FAQ alias that points to people who keep the FAQs up to date.. I often see things that should be in and FAQ and would write regular FAQ items if I there was an easy thing to do with them.... julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:28:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09899 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:28:32 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09864 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:28:20 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA12630; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:32:02 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:32:02 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504251932.NAA12630@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..)" (Apr 25, 1:11pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) Cc: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ only exporting specified symbols in shlibs ] > > > > The problem with this is that we are now placing a migh bigger load on > > the developer to specify which symbols to be exported, rather than > > having the compiler do it with judicious use of static and extern as it > > is currently. > > Not true; there is very little difference topologically between not > exporting more than you need to and not importing more than you need > to. The second case can be made automatic if the shared libs were not > monolithic .o files. There is a *large* difference between exporting symbols and importing symbols. You're trying to wedge two arguements together which don't belong together. 1) Exporting symbols in functions/libraries 2) Importing symbols from functions/libraries The current setup of exporting functions is adequate w/out having to add the extra overhead of asking the developer to specify which symbols are to be seen. However, because of the current scheme which concatenates all of the objects together into one big object file, we have difficulties doing symbol resolution at run-time. These are completely different problems and should be treated differently. > > > This is an inevitable result of not using an archive format for the > > > shared library objects so they can be pulled in an object at a time (or > > > not), which is what you do with normal library archives. > > > > This would solve some of the problems I've been trying to work out, but > > it would mean a re-write of most of the code, which is IMHO not worth it. > > It's worth it for the C++ curses problems and it's worth it for unused > virtual bas classes from a c++ library. > > It's also worth it in the reduction of available symbol space. Let's see the code to implement this. Now that your legal hassles are out of the way, I'd *really* like to see code solutions instead of paper tigers from you. :-) C'mon Terry, you've been promising this stuff for *years*!!! Let's see some bits so we can believe that all of this talk has some basis in reality. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:33:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA10342 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:33:51 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA10332 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:33:48 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA10605; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:31:00 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504251931.MAA10605@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: FAQ mailing list To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251919.MAA08076@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 25, 95 12:19:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 588 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is there a (or could there be) an FAQ alias > that points to people who keep the FAQs up to date.. > I often see things that should be in and FAQ > and would write regular FAQ items if I there > was an easy thing to do with them.... freefall:rgrimes {102} grep -i faq /etc/aliases # freebsd-faq (NOT MAJORDOMO!!) faq: freebsd-faq freebsd-faq: jkh, roberto freefall:rgrimes {103} -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:46:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA11206 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:46:02 -0700 Received: from larry.infi.net (root@larry.infi.net [198.22.1.107]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11197 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:45:58 -0700 Received: from Jessica.RatsNest.VaBeach.VA.US by larry.infi.net with SMTP (8.6.12/Server1.12) id PAA06332; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:46:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199504251946.PAA06332@larry.infi.net> From: "Pavlov's Cat" Organization: Organized? Me? Hah! To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:09:56 -240 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Newbie mentoring Reply-to: SimsS@infi.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary, As a confirmed "lurker" I am really attracted to your idea about mentoring newbies. Sign me up - I've been looking for an opportunity to give back some of what I've taken from this forum. The only problem I see is that, unlike the hard-core -hackers folks, us lurkers can make FreeBSD do whatever *we* need, but don't have the broad spectrum of knowledge that, say, Terry, has. Take me, fer instance; I can make the net-osity aspect of FreeBSD sing, routing, gated'ing, SLIP & PPP-ing, the whole thing. But 'X-11'? Whazzat? Don't use it, don't care for it, can't afford a 35" monitor to get all the displays I want to run. Who needs it when you got a sh prompt and multiple consoles? (Tongue firmly in cheek, here!) So my point is this - maybe it'd be a good idea if there was some mechanism for passing the buck so an assigned mentor could recognize that the question/issue was out of his/her area of expertise and draw another card. -- ...sjs... Steve Sims (SJS7) SimsS@Infi.Net Systems Engineer, IPC Technologies, Inc. Virginia Beach, VA "Everyone wants to save the Earth; Nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes." ...P.J. O'Roarke From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:48:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA11423 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:48:56 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11411 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:48:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA10651; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:45:51 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504251945.MAA10651@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 25, 95 11:33:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2259 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I recently picked up a Buslogic 946C, but I found that performance is > very poor. Any tips on improving performance under FreeBSD? > > I'm confused by the fact that is says "async only". The manual > indicates that is can do synchronous transfers, and the disk info option in > AutoSCSI says that all the disks support synchronous transfer. Sync > negotiation and fast SCSI have been enabled as well. Is this a > limitation of the driver? No, something is not set right on that card. I am using an older version of the BIOS but below where it reports ``async only'' by card reports sync. The card is telling FreeBSD that it is in async only mode: line 1317 of sys/i386/isa/bt742.c: /* * Obtain setup information from board. */ bt_cmd(unit, 1, sizeof(setup), 0, &setup, BT_SETUP_GET, sizeof(setup)); if (setup.sync_neg && info->s.sync ) { if ( info->s.maxsync ) { printf("fast sync, "); /* Max 10MB/s */ } else { printf("sync, "); /* Max 5MB/s */ } } else { if ( info->s.sync ) { printf("async, "); /* Never try by board */ } else { printf("async only, "); /* Doesn't has a capability on board */ } } > > > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 > bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs ^^^^^^^^^^ card is not in sync mode :-( > bt0: targ 0 async > bt0: targ 1 async > bt0: targ 2 async > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > bt0 at 0xe800 irq 11 on eisa slot 14 > bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > (bt0:1:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > (bt0:2:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > > . > . > > pci0:5: INTEL CORPORATION, device=0x486, class=old [not supported] > pci0:9: vendor=0x104b, device=0x1040, class=storage [not supported] > map(10): io(e800) > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:51:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA11663 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:41 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11653 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:38 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA08241; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:34 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504251951.MAA08241@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Help? To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: CVBASMA@VM.CC.OLEMISS.EDU, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250729.AAA21930@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 25, 95 00:29:18 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2003 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Dear Mr. Gibbs: > > I'm flattered that you picked me to send this to, but am sort > of perplexed why it was me that you picked! :) The network > layers of the kernel are not my forte', and I think that more > information on how your managers interface at the device layer > will be needed to fully answer your question. I've CC'd > hackers@FreeBSD.org so that a wider audience will be able to > respond. I'm sure that there will be many people interested > in what you are trying to do with FreeBSD and hopefully someone > more experienced in these areas will get back to you. If no one > responds, ping me again and I'll see what I can do to help you out. > > -- > Justin It SOUNDS (though I'm not sure) that he wants to know how to add his own modules to the kernel.. (i.e. /sys/conf/files etc.) (and possibly a user interface) (new syscall? ioctl on a device?) [...] > > > > These managers have been written and tested separately. My > >question to you is how can I compile and link these managers to > >become part of FreeBSD kernel. I have tried to understand the > >Makefile and have tried just about every thing I could think of, > >only to fail. Any help from you would very much be appreciated > >for I am desperate to any other input. Please, if you could E- > >Mail me the steps as to how I can build my libraries and link > >them with the kernel so that all my modules will be visible to > >the kernel you would save my life :-). add the files to /sys/conf/files, making them dependednt on an option such as 'distos' (lower case) then in /sys/i386/conf, make a config file by copying GENERIC to MYCONFIG, and add the line options DISTOS (upper case) (and you should add teh DDB option as well if you are experimenting) any changes you make in existing files should be bracketted by: #ifdef DISTOS (upper case) #endif then: in /sys/i386/conf type: config MYCONFIG cd ../../compile/MYCONFIG make depend make all make install <-- if you're adventurous julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 12:52:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA11695 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:52:01 -0700 Received: from netcom9.netcom.com (bakul@netcom9.netcom.com [192.100.81.119]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA11687 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom9.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id MAA27349; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:51:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199504251951.MAA27349@netcom9.netcom.com> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Cc: mycroft@ai.mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:08:44 MDT." <9504251808.AA00479@cs.weber.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:50:59 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Part of my campaign to refuse to acknowledge factions in the BSD camp. > You'll also notice a studious lack of "we", "us", "they", "our", and > "them" when discussing relative issues. Nice to know there is atleast one other person who has his head in the sand (err.. feels the same way) as I do in this regard. No smiley though. > The idea here is that by default, processes are assumed to not use the > FPU, and thus by default the FPU trap results in code fixup rather than > FPU operations. Thus it does not matter which FPU operation is used > first. Isn't it easier to just assume that everyone may _eventually_ use FP and simply initialize the FP state on exec? If they never use FP there is no loss. One time initialization hit is not worth worrying about. There are no FPU operations involved (you just copy the initial state from somewhere and set the `stale' bit). Charles writes: > (With a slight kluge, it may be possible to combine this with the > check for whether you're using the emulator or not, and eliminate the > extra bit altogether. I'll have to try this.) This can even be considered a `cleaner" solution! When someone else is using the FPU, _you_ don't have it! So your choices are to either take it away from this someone else or emulate!! Emulation may even be cheaper than save/restore of FPU state for some simple FP operation (once or twice)! Though, probably not worth microoptimizing like this. I will pass on the page protection discussion :-) --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 13:39:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA14892 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:39:00 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA14874 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:38:48 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01427; Tue, 25 Apr 95 14:32:12 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504252032.AA01427@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 14:32:11 MDT Cc: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251932.NAA12630@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 25, 95 01:32:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is a *large* difference between exporting symbols and importing > symbols. You're trying to wedge two arguements together which don't > belong together. > > 1) Exporting symbols in functions/libraries > 2) Importing symbols from functions/libraries > > The current setup of exporting functions is adequate w/out having to add > the extra overhead of asking the developer to specify which symbols are > to be seen. > > However, because of the current scheme which concatenates all of the > objects together into one big object file, we have difficulties doing > symbol resolution at run-time. These are completely different problems and > should be treated differently. I think we are in violent agreement that there should not be specification of the exported interfaces to reduce the overall symbol space. On the other hand, I believe the problem being pointed at is a real one. And I think it is solvable without restricting the symbol exports. The issue that is being argued is twofold: 1) The symbol space in the static symbol resoloution table in a shared binary is large, so it takes a while to search and is thus "slow". 2) There is pollution of the name space by symbols being required because they are being referenced, and this is in turn the result of the libraries being linked as a monoblock instead of as individual objects (some of which could be omitted). Now, linking as individual objects would relieve both problems. On the other hand, the first problem is succeptible to brute force; that is, prebalancing an AVL tree in the linker so you can bsearch for symbols; it's our damn static fixup code, and this is a relatively trivial change. I think the correct soloution would be to use an archive format instead of a relinked .o for shared libraries. This is somewhat annoying, but can easily be argued that it should be done. There is a question of "what is a shared library" and "PIC code is more expensive". I would propose resolving the library problem by making PIC the default code type for regular libraries; this would mean that it was impossible to to produce a library which could not then be processed into a shared library. The magic piece of the shared library that results in it being monolithic is the symbol fixup code that contains all of the symbols in the library instead of per object module fixup tables. This is more the choice of sticking the fixup code generation in the linker instead of putting it in the archiver, where it probably belongs. > > > This would solve some of the problems I've been trying to work out, but > > > it would mean a re-write of most of the code, which is IMHO not worth it. > > > > It's worth it for the C++ curses problems and it's worth it for unused > > virtual bas classes from a c++ library. > > > > It's also worth it in the reduction of available symbol space. > > Let's see the code to implement this. Now that your legal hassles are > out of the way, I'd *really* like to see code solutions instead of paper > tigers from you. :-) I'm in the process of tackling other tigers right now. You're probably aware of LessTif? 'd prefer a non-GPL'ed Motif clone library. You're probably also aware of the Stream project for Linux? I'm trying to revive my 386BSD 0.1 code for that. I'm also working on ODI driver loading to fix the ethernet problem once and for all. I believe Paul has my todo list and it's pretty big. Equipment is my big problem right now, since it still seems there isn't any decent Intel PCI machines one can buy, there isn't an agree upon SMP box (apparently), and there are plenty of PCMCIA portables, but the only usable ones are in excess of $5000, and they're just barely usable (800x600 internal display). They're also some joint projects that you're not going to hear about until they are done. I sent SEF some game code (prerelease) for evaluation, but haven't heard anything back on it yet... I also uploaded a prerelease of Mimic and haven't heard much on it either. > C'mon Terry, you've been promising this stuff for *years*!!! Let's see > some bits so we can believe that all of this talk has some basis in > reality. I thought you were one of the people who had logged onto the original "Hecate" machine I had at Weber and played with my system using shared libraries... Anyway, you've yheard plenty from me, I've just been real low key about release code (and I've only been free of my legal entanglements for a short while). If someone wants to help with the hacking, I'm prepared to be a bit freer with source for some projects, but only with the people actually helping -- I need end users right now like I need a hole in my head. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 13:51:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA15678 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:51:30 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA15668 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:51:23 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id OAA13105; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:55:42 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:55:42 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504252055.OAA13105@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..)" (Apr 25, 2:32pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think we are in violent agreement that there should not be specification > of the exported interfaces to reduce the overall symbol space. Wow, an agreement on the mailing list? Quick call a reporter. > On the other hand, I believe the problem being pointed at is a real one. > > And I think it is solvable without restricting the symbol exports. Again, we are in agreement. > The issue that is being argued is twofold: > > 1) The symbol space in the static symbol resoloution table in > a shared binary is large, so it takes a while to search and > is thus "slow". Correct. > 2) There is pollution of the name space by symbols being required > because they are being referenced, and this is in turn the > result of the libraries being linked as a monoblock instead > of as individual objects (some of which could be omitted). > > Now, linking as individual objects would relieve both problems. Correct, but it would mean that we would lose binary compatability with older FreeBSD releases and with NetBSD, unless we could add a global loader which recognizes how a program was linked via some a.out magic. This is a non-trivial issue. > There is a question of "what is a shared library" and "PIC code is more > expensive". I would propose resolving the library problem by making > PIC the default code type for regular libraries; this would mean that > it was impossible to to produce a library which could not then be > processed into a shared library. That would be an easy thing to do. Would linking programs statically against PIC compiled libraries affect them at run-time any though? Would it require a special linker, or mods to the current linkder? This would make building libraries much faster, since we only need to build one object file (or two if profiled libraries are being built) instead of two. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:02:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16630 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:02:17 -0700 Received: from mg1.cdsnet.net (mrcpu@mg1.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16622 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:02:13 -0700 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by mg1.cdsnet.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) id OAA12663; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:02:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:02:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: John Booth cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? In-Reply-To: <1C2FF887AE5@gab.unt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, John Booth wrote: > > > creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on > > > the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? > > > > I'd kill for digest format. I'd kill Jordan and John for digest format. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:12:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17513 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:12:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17475 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:12:45 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17043; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:32 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA26637 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA06820 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:44:00 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504251944.VAA06820@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:43:56 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504250531.AA16107@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 25, 95 03:31:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 531 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm impressed with the benefits you list but worried about the work to > achieve it all. Who will volunteer to implement the Rolls-Royce?? > > If someone sticks their hand up then let's go ... I could help out with Perl hacking. Though i'll be off for vacation RSN, so i'll not be available as early as second week of June. (I think i'll need the first week to catch up with all the accumulated mails from a three-week vacation. :-]) What's with our favorite Perl script writer? Wolfram, hörst Du den Ruf auch? :-) Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:13:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17559 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:13:17 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17530 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:13:05 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17038; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:31 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA26634 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:12:30 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA06779 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:31:06 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504251931.VAA06779@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 autoconf.c To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:31:00 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504250750.AAA16091@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Apr 25, 95 00:50:36 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 939 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Moved to -hackers, i'm almost sure Terry wouldn't like to miss this one. :)] > > From: J Wunsch > Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 autoconf.c > [Poul's change allowing to have an MFS root f/s] > So we could boot from tape RSN? > > I don't know if you were serious, but given that we're down to one > floppy for install, why do we care? Since i could put whatever i want onto the fixit tape. Or i could easily make a set out of a single floppy and a single tape for a complete FreeBSD install. Anyway, i'm afraid the SCSI controller BIOSes would not be willing to hook tape drives to any accessible BIOS interface, so this is certainly not much more than a (mis)thought. It would be really nice if we had SCSI controllers that could boot off a tape. Would give us ``workstation feeling''. :) Perhaps this item should go into the TODO file for people with too much time to burn... Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:16:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17836 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:16:54 -0700 Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (joeg@flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAB17830 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:16:51 -0700 Received: (joeg@localhost) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id QAA22182 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:13:21 -0500 From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> Subject: Quantum disk drive To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:13:21 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 312 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. Any ideas or am I SOL? Josef -- Josef Grosch | joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." finger for my | - Buckaroo Banzai - public PGP key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:24:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18427 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:24:27 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18410 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:24:21 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <178>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:38:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504251945.MAA10651@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > I'm confused by the fact that is says "async only". The manual > > indicates that is can do synchronous transfers, and the disk info option in > > AutoSCSI says that all the disks support synchronous transfer. Sync > > negotiation and fast SCSI have been enabled as well. Is this a > > limitation of the driver? > > No, something is not set right on that card. I am using an older version > of the BIOS but below where it reports ``async only'' by card reports > sync. The card is telling FreeBSD that it is in async only mode: I don't see anyway of telling the BT946C to do async only. It appears that you can only disable sync for individual drives, and I've set that that Yes for every drive. Doing a "iozone 100" results in trasfers around 1.7meg per second. This is really sad, when the drives have a media transfer rate of 2.7 - 5.5 MB/s. > > > > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 > > bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > > ^^^^^^^^^^ card is not in sync mode :-( > > bt0: targ 0 async > > bt0: targ 1 async > > bt0: targ 2 async > > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > > bt0 at 0xe800 irq 11 on eisa slot 14 > > bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > > (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > > (bt0:1:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > > (bt0:2:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:28:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18847 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:28:52 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA18835 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:28:48 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA09506 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:28:33 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id XAA12480 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:28:33 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504252128.XAA12480@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: FAQ mailing list To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:28:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251919.MAA08076@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 25, 95 12:19:19 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 512 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a (or could there be) an FAQ alias > that points to people who keep the FAQs up to date.. > I often see things that should be in and FAQ > and would write regular FAQ items if I there > was an easy thing to do with them.... Send your comments and/or additions to faq@freebsd.org and either John Fieber or me will incorporate your changes in the FAQs... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:29:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA18908 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:29:18 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA18892 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:29:14 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01834; Tue, 25 Apr 95 15:22:39 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504252122.AA01834@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 15:22:39 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252055.OAA13105@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 25, 95 02:55:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Correct, but it would mean that we would lose binary compatability with > older FreeBSD releases and with NetBSD, unless we could add a global > loader which recognizes how a program was linked via some a.out magic. > > This is a non-trivial issue. Some of this is already being sacraficed with the new tool set (which is why there's a backward compatability library for the gcc stuff that itself breaks several "rules" on versioning, etc. > > There is a question of "what is a shared library" and "PIC code is more > > expensive". I would propose resolving the library problem by making > > PIC the default code type for regular libraries; this would mean that > > it was impossible to to produce a library which could not then be > > processed into a shared library. > > That would be an easy thing to do. Would linking programs statically > against PIC compiled libraries affect them at run-time any though? Would > it require a special linker, or mods to the current linkder? In order: Yes, I think they would be about 10% slower (there is some question as to whether the "10%" number was arrive at legitimately, or whether the actual number is smaller, and the "10%" is an inflated value because the benchmarks didn't take into account the average time a program would be running (making the dynamic link overhead a significant fraction of the resulting benchmark run time -- say 10%). The current linker would work fine. The big change would be the moving of the internal synbol table (the one you can't strip) into being generated in the ar instead of in the ld coelescing of the shared objects. There would be minor changes to the ld to recognize the resulting data-only object. The main issue I see in doing this is one of licensing -- it must be possible to generate static-only libraries so that you can continue to produce statically linked Motif binaries, for instance. Hopefully some work currently under way will obsolete this need by obsoleting OSF as a source for Motif libraries unless they change their licensing a bit. > This would make building libraries much faster, since we only need to > build one object file (or two if profiled libraries are being built) > instead of two. Yes. This is the big "rebuild the world" win in Linux, since it is still using staic locations for dynamic symbol resoloution ...the SVR3 model. This is about to change over there with ELF, though, and they will be using basically the same approach as BSD currently uses. Might be nice to stay one step ahead. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:31:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19038 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:31:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19031 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:31:05 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10999; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:28:16 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504252128.OAA10999@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Quantum disk drive To: joeg@truenorth.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> from "Joe Grosch" at Apr 25, 95 04:13:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1398 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its > a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. > Any ideas or am I SOL? The Quantum LPS105S is infact a SCSI drive, my Quantum drive manual shows it to be a ``Six-Jumper'' drive configuration, and here is the info you need. If you place the drive electronics side up, SCSI connector to your left the jumpers are like this: +---------------------------------+ |XPower Connector | |X | |X | | | |XScsi Connector | |X | |X | |X | |X | |X | |X | |X AAA WES | |X 210 SPS | |X | +---------------------------------+ A2-A0 SCSI ID, A2 is MSB WS Wait for SCSI start unit command to spin up EP Enable Parity SS Factory Use Only (Self Seek test enable) These jumper settings are valid for the 40S, 52S, 80S, 105S, 120S, 170S, 210S and 425S/425iS. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:39:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19639 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:39:11 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19621 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:38:47 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA09576 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:38:13 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id XAA12508 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:38:12 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504252138.XAA12508@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Quantum disk drive To: joeg@truenorth.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:38:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> from "Joe Grosch" at Apr 25, 95 04:13:21 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 618 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its > a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. > Any ideas or am I SOL? Near the SCSI connector, you have two blocks of three jumpers. The ID settings are set by the nearer block from the connector. It is written as A0 A1 A2. It is standard binary arithmetic. I have such a one too but not for FreeBSD. I have 100 MB for small DOS (i.e. games) usage and 2.6 GB for FreeBSD :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 14:45:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20193 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:45:23 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20175 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:45:18 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA13343; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:49:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:49:33 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504252149.PAA13343@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..)" (Apr 25, 3:22pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Correct, but it would mean that we would lose binary compatability with > > older FreeBSD releases and with NetBSD, unless we could add a global > > loader which recognizes how a program was linked via some a.out magic. > > > > This is a non-trivial issue. > > Some of this is already being sacraficed with the new tool set (which is > why there's a backward compatability library for the gcc stuff that itself > breaks several "rules" on versioning, etc. Sort of. We aren't losing binary compatability as the tools themselves haven't become incompatible, but we do have to provide the older libgcc shlib since libgcc is no longer used. As far as versioning goes, there have been no rules broken since the versioning problems only occur with shlibs, and the backwards compatability issue is caused from making libraries non-shared. > > > There is a question of "what is a shared library" and "PIC code is more > > > expensive". I would propose resolving the library problem by making > > > PIC the default code type for regular libraries; this would mean that > > > it was impossible to to produce a library which could not then be > > > processed into a shared library. > > > > That would be an easy thing to do. Would linking programs statically > > against PIC compiled libraries affect them at run-time any though? Would > > it require a special linker, or mods to the current linkder? > > In order: > > Yes, I think they would be about 10% slower (there is some > question as to whether the "10%" number was arrive at > legitimately, or whether the actual number is smaller, and > the "10%" is an inflated value because the benchmarks didn't > take into account the average time a program would be running > (making the dynamic link overhead a significant fraction of > the resulting benchmark run time -- say 10%). Whoa. Did you read what I read? My question was (in more obvious wording) "Would linking a program static using a static library made up of PIC compiled objects cause run-time penalties" There are no run-time linking issues involved whatsoever, since we are linking the program statically. Basically, my question boils down to the differences between PIC objects and non-PIC objects. > The main issue I see in doing this is one of licensing -- it > must be possible to generate static-only libraries so that > you can continue to produce statically linked Motif binaries, > for instance. You could still differentiate between shared/static libraries, although I could understand where that would be un-necessary since the libraries would be essentially identical. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:07:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21441 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:07:29 -0700 Received: from grapenuts.bellcore.com (grapenuts.bellcore.com [192.4.4.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21431 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:07:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grapenuts.bellcore.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02513 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:06:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199504252206.SAA02513@grapenuts.bellcore.com> X-Authentication-Warning: grapenuts.bellcore.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Andrew Heybey To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: forking and shared memory don't mix (with fix) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:06:49 -0400 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If a process creates some shared memory (using either sysV shmem or mmap), forks, and one or more of the children touches the shared memory (so as to get pages of it in their pmaps), then when the last of the processes exit the machine crashes with the following stack trace (the page fault actually happens in pmap_remove_all() at line 1028 because pte is not valid): [line 1028] if (pmap_pte_w(pte)) IdlePTD 1e0000 current pcb at 1d3704 panic: page fault #0 boot (arghowto=256) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:811 811 dumppcb.pcb_ptd = rcr3(); (kgdb) where #0 boot (arghowto=256) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:811 #1 0xf0111c43 in panic (fmt=0xf01a1a5c "page fault") at ../../kern/subr_prf.c:128 #2 0xf01a251e in trap_fatal (frame=0xefbffdc0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:688 #3 0xf01a2090 in trap_pfault (frame=0xefbffdc0, usermode=0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:610 #4 0xf01a1d57 in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 140206080, tf_esi = -255910036, tf_ebp = -272630252, tf_isp = -272630296, tf_ebx = -4057384, tf_edx = 34230, tf_ecx = -265771604, tf_eax = -4194304, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266735075, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66182, tf_esp = -265987948, tf_ss = -2147483648}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:290 #5 0xf0197e81 in calltrap () #6 0xf01a047a in pmap_page_protect (phys=21471232, prot=0) at ../../i386/i386/pmap.c:1921 #7 0xf0190e10 in vm_object_pmap_remove (object=0xf0bc3180, start=0, end=12808192) at ../../vm/vm_page.h:288 #8 0xf018e974 in vm_map_delete (map=0xf0bc4d80, start=134963200, end=147771392) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:1641 #9 0xf018db3c in vm_map_deallocate (map=0xf0bc4d80) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:477 #10 0xf018e868 in vm_map_entry_delete (map=0xf0bc0700, entry=0xf0bb4ee0) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:1557 #11 0xf018e990 in vm_map_delete (map=0xf0bc0700, start=134963200, end=147771392) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:1654 #12 0xf018ea10 in vm_map_remove (map=0xf0bc0700, start=134963200, end=147771392) at ../../vm/vm_map.c:1679 #13 0xf0116214 in shm_delete_mapping (p=0xf0bc0400, shmmap_s=0xf0bc1a10) at ../../kern/sysv_shm.c:150 #14 0xf0116a39 in shmexit (p=0xf0bc0400) at ../../kern/sysv_shm.c:562 #15 0xf0108cca in exit1 (p=0xf0bc0400, rv=0) at ../../kern/kern_exit.c:137 #16 0xf0108be4 in exit (p=0xf0bc0400, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff8c) at ../../kern/kern_exit.c:86 #17 0xf01a2707 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = -1, tf_ebp = -272639276, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 134828128, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 134661724, tf_eax = 1, tf_trapno = 642, tf_err = 642, tf_eip = 134483757, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 642, tf_esp = -272639296, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:828 #18 0xf0197ecb in Xsyscall () I believe the following patch fixes the bug--at least it seems to for my specific application. Crash dumps available upon request. *** 1.1 1995/04/25 21:38:17 --- pmap.c 1995/04/25 22:01:30 *************** *** 1241,1247 **** npv = get_pv_entry(); npv->pv_va = va; npv->pv_pmap = pmap; ! npv->pv_next = pv->pv_next; pv->pv_next = npv; } splx(s); --- 1241,1247 ---- npv = get_pv_entry(); npv->pv_va = va; npv->pv_pmap = pmap; ! npv->pv_next = NULL; pv->pv_next = npv; } splx(s); *************** *** 1430,1436 **** npv = get_pv_entry(); npv->pv_va = va; npv->pv_pmap = pmap; ! npv->pv_next = pv->pv_next; pv->pv_next = npv; } splx(s); --- 1430,1436 ---- npv = get_pv_entry(); npv->pv_va = va; npv->pv_pmap = pmap; ! npv->pv_next = NULL; pv->pv_next = npv; } splx(s); From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:08:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21549 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:08:53 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21537 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:08:50 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05057; Tue, 25 Apr 95 17:07:40 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504252207.AA05057@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Quantum disk drive To: joeg@truenorth.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> from "Joe Grosch" at Apr 25, 95 04:13:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 357 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its > a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. > Any ideas or am I SOL? On both of mine (1" and full ht 3.25), the jumpers are readily apparent someplace on the PCB (as I haven't looked at the underside of the drives in two years, I don't remember where). ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:09:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21597 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:09:39 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21578 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:09:23 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43053>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:08:56 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00526; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:50:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199504240950.LAA00526@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What's going on with 2.0.5. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 1995 02:04:46 +0200." <7438.798595486@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:50:36 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Its motherboard, always been somewhat flakey .... > The aging 1742 in it that had also finally > decided that its natural lifespan had been exceeded You guys _do_ use static wrist straps when performing surgery ? And check your power supplies with DVMs (at the very least) ? (if this answer springs to mind: "yes & we tie our shoe laces real tight ;-)" perhaps it would be a good time to go drink 2 capuccino with some VLSI fabricator friends, I guess they'd know either way what is really necessary :-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:10:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21643 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:10:06 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21632 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:10:01 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43049>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:09:27 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00394; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:53:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199504240853.KAA00394@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey), bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Apr 1995 02:32:33 +0200." <9504220032.AA06037@cs.weber.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:53:27 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I hope you'll think of "mor" and remember me fondly. 8^). Well I tried sh . ./mor mor < /etc/printcap and it worked :-) So thanks, I'll keep it as a nice example of shell procedures, but I'm not sure if it should go into my ~root/.profile, do you have it in yours ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:10:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21659 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:10:14 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21646 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:10:09 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43052>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:09:46 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03521; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:45:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199504241845.UAA03521@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Kernel makefile changes to allow builds in different trees Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:45:53 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Mike Pritchard > Here are some changes to the kernel makefile and related programs that will > allow you to build kernels somewhere other than /usr/src/sys/compile/xxx Mike, sounds like we're possibly working in the same area, I have an extensive sys/Makefiles thing in freefall:~jhs/fixes I'll get back to it after Ive finished hylafax, hopefully we can get our work to mesh Till later Julian S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:11:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21736 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:11:08 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21703 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:10:51 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43048>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:10:24 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08064; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:03:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199504221403.QAA08064@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mark Hittinger , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Release stability (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:34:55 +0200." <2448.798449695@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 16:03:09 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What say the rest of you? The actual numbering mechanism (odd, even, how many digits etc) is religious, I don't care what is chosen, so long it is sequential, just don't use a random approach (eg "this one's called Chicago, next is called Johannesburg") A friend who sell software in bulk for Lotus tells me that for consumers to believe software credible, they need to see reliable availability of regular upgrade releases (though this of course doesn't mean they'll always upgrade if they have no problems outstanding) To make FreeBSD attractive to to the bosses (not just techies) who select OS's for commercial applications, being able to go into project consultancy sales presentations saying: "The International FreeBSD Group produces new releases regularly every 3 months, look at the labels, I've brought the last year's with me" would go down well (something like it has already worked for me), but "every so often" sounds a Lot less business like than "every 3 months"; still my old 1.0 & 1.1 CD cases still have at least some use :-) Pressings every 3 months would generate lots more revenue for WC Inc too, (as I've alluded to in previous mail). Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:14:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22029 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:14:29 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22020 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:14:20 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43042>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:13:57 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA07819; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:38:29 +0200 Message-Id: <199504221138.NAA07819@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:41:49 +0200." <199504211841.NAA25737@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:38:28 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > ESC & k 2 G > > > Or if you're using a networked printer, connect to "rp=text" instead of > > > "rp=raw" and it'll do it magically. > > > Huh ? what command or config file does this "rp=text" syntax plug into ? > > /etc/printcap. The HP networked lasers these days support BSD print services > and can just be added to /etc/printcap without worrying about whether it's a > printer or a complete system. I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse but: - We are not discussing a `networked laser' as far as I know. The original poster mentioned an HP 2P as I recall, He did Not mention having installed an ethernet card in the back of his laser (though I recall this is available (if expensive) for the 3 series, this card does admittedly come this extra software too, perhaps you're thinking of that ? To quote man printcap: rp str ``lp'' remote printer name argument as I understand it, one can use :rp=lp: & similar as a cascade function to add extra attributes to a basic printcap entry, & that's it. So unless the `text' entry pointed at by the r.h.s of your rp=text generates an ESC & k 2 G it wont do you any good. I feel one of us is missing the point (& I'm not sure who), perhaps we're talking at cross purposes ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:18:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22207 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:18:54 -0700 Received: from silicon.csci.csusb.edu (silicon.csci.csusb.edu [139.182.38.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22201 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:18:52 -0700 Received: from orion.csci.csusb.edu by silicon.csci.csusb.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA07690; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:23:45 +0800 Received: by orion.csci.csusb.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02079; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:18:11 +0800 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:18:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Neal Westfall To: "Rashid Karimov." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Latest SNAP - inst.problems (PCI/BT946c). In-Reply-To: <199504251919.PAA23326@haven.ios.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 666 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rashid Karimov. wrote: > Any clue ? Personally I think that latest SNAP ( 0412 ) have > much more problems with ( at least ) installation phase, than > one from February - looking at the letter we have here at > questions@ and hackers@ I agree with this, having just installed the 0412 snap. The system rebooted twice during the install after dropping to a shell, before I was finished configuring. I had to install src and X11 by running the extract scripts after the system came up multi-user. I will need to run it for awhile to determine how stable it is. One problem I am having is building X applications which use xpm. Neal From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:20:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:20:58 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22281 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:20:54 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43045>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:19:25 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07717; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:48:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199504221048.MAA07717@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rashid Karimov." cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Beer In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:01:09 +0200." <199504211501.LAA02677@haven.ios.com> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:48:56 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The picture of core team gathered together Please someone(s) do take a camera, & with print film rather slide I think, then later loan the prints to whoever has a colour scanner, & we can have more core team faces on the web server, we could also extablish a little archive of faces somewhere for use by xface within exmh etc, Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:22:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:22:08 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22306 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:22:03 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43048>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:20:57 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07663; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:45 +0200 Message-Id: <199504221039.MAA07663@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Beer In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:35:05 +0200." <199504210535.WAA01724@geli.clusternet> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:39:45 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Really, wouldn't it be nice to have a FreeBSD party? If Star Trek matter transmitters were reliable and cheap, I'd be there :-) Have fun :-) Julian S Munich From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:29:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22392 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:29:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22386 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:29:20 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA02359; Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:22:41 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504252222.AA02359@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:22:40 MDT Cc: mycroft@ai.mit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251951.MAA27349@netcom9.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 25, 95 12:50:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The idea here is that by default, processes are assumed to not use the > > FPU, and thus by default the FPU trap results in code fixup rather than > > FPU operations. Thus it does not matter which FPU operation is used > > first. > > Isn't it easier to just assume that everyone may > _eventually_ use FP and simply initialize the FP state on > exec? If they never use FP there is no loss. One time > initialization hit is not worth worrying about. There are > no FPU operations involved (you just copy the initial state > from somewhere and set the `stale' bit). No. The difference is whether you have to save/restore state on context swicth or not. If you know the process doesn't use the FPU, you can leave it alone, hoping that the process that doe use it will be the next FPU using process to run. This is typically the case, and it takes the FPU overhead out of each of the processes not actually using the FPU. Putting a stale state in there means you have to switch because you expect that the process will use the FPU. The difference is the difference between a startup initialization that may not be necessary plus a context switch for every process that runs vs a runtime fixup one time (that is no more expensive than the startup hit) and which is only paid by processes actually using the FPU. Here's the lowdown: o The FPU has a "last used by" state variable o When the first FPU using process is run, this variable is set to its PID. o When a context switch occurs, the FPU state is left unchanged if the process being switched to is a non FPU using process, or if the process being switched to is the one that "last used" the FPU. o A process has a flag that tells if it has ever used the FPU. If it has, the flag is set, if it hasn't, the flag is not set. o The flag is set by the linker based on FPU instructions being used (floagged by the objec files or by linking the math lib or whatever. The flag would be set on the process at exec time. o Alternately, the flag is only set on the first FPU use attempt. You cheat to get this information by causing processes without the flag to be set to cause an "emulator" that isn't an emulator to be trapped to by the FPU access. This means the trap vector needs switching between FPU using and non FPU using programs. o It's probably a tossup whether it is more expensive to incorrectly predict an FPU instruction containing program will execute one of the FPU instructions in an average code path, or whether the extra switching from presetting the "uses the FPU" flag on the process results in more overhead. o When a switch is done to an FPU using program that is not the last FPU using program, the las program's state is saved in the per processstruct for that program; also the current FPU state is restored for the program. o The code is two additional compares on context switch for FPU using programs and one additional compare instead of an FPU state save and restore for each non-FPU using programs. o If you use the preflagging method at link time (my preference), then there is not an extra overhead of altering the trap vector on transition between fPU using and non-FPU using programs; otherwise, there is, and the overhead does not occur in normal usages (which is typlically non-FPU using programs-to-non-FPU using program context switching). o The benfit in defeating benchmarks (make no bones about it, that's what's going on) is that a single process benchmark that uses FPU instructions results in no FPU context switches because there is a single FPU using program. o The overall benefit in benchmarks not using the FPU and sensitive to the context switch overhead is that you trade a single compare insterad of the FPU switch overhead on a per process FPU context save and restore. If you're worried about benchmarks, you should do this sort of thing. For Non FPU using installations, the overall benefit will be there, but for average FPU using installations, the benefit will be reduced by a single additional compare. > This can even be considered a `cleaner" solution! When > someone else is using the FPU, _you_ don't have it! So your > choices are to either take it away from this someone else or > emulate!! Emulation may even be cheaper than save/restore > of FPU state for some simple FP operation (once or twice)! > Though, probably not worth microoptimizing like this. I'd agree; I'd also say that this type of splitting, while possible in Sequent hardware, is a *bad* precedent for SMP, which largely assumes processer homogeneity. I'd say that SMP is a goal and that ASMP is not, and therefore inequal processr resources in a multiprocesser box are a case that probably should not be handled by default. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:29:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22405 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:29:36 -0700 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22395 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:29:33 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA27244; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:29:18 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA04514; Tue, 25 Apr 95 17:29:18 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9504252229.AA04514@olympus> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au (Gary Roberts) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:29:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504250743.AA16410@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 25, 95 05:43:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2225 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > Yeah, but as they say "Nothing engenders brand loyalty more than good, > > > > old-fashioned, personalised service". > > > > > > That's tellin' em, Gary! Sic' em! Go get 'em! :-) :-) > > > > And as a show of my faith in what Gary is doing here: > > > > Gary, please put me on the helper list, and assign me my 1 newbie, > > when I am done with him I will ask for another. > > Thanks Rod, you are now a *foundation* member of the FreeBSD Mentors' Club. > There are *obviously* going to be special *privileges* for those who join > up quickly :-> ;->. > > I'll keep a list of all volunteers and as soon as we can get some sort of > working system in place, we'll kick the thing into gear. Those following > the discussion will have seen the ideas for automation that are coming > forward. I'd like to see such a system if a scripting guru offers his > services. I think that Jonathan has offered but I'll let him confirm > that in public if he wishes. > > If nothing *automated* surfaces, I will try to do it manually. > > Cheers, > -- > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > I'm game, but I have one concern. It might be wise to match up people based on hardware. Sending me a question about mitsumi cd rom drives is not going to get an informed answer. I realize that a forms based approach is a pain in the ass but it would make better matching easier to automate. If not, the ability to route newbies to the proper pool after being automatically assigned would be OK. I just don't want some poor clod to bounce around until someone (and remember, we are talking the lurker here) with the proper experience and hardware gets it. Boyd You would all be pissed if I posted every question I got here so that I could answer newbie questions for hardware I don't have. I would. :-) "Perhaps if you read the source code..." -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@isd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:36:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22595 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:36:39 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22589 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:36:35 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00327; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:33:48 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504252233.PAA00327@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 25, 95 02:37:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2342 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > I'm confused by the fact that is says "async only". The manual > > > indicates that is can do synchronous transfers, and the disk info option in > > > AutoSCSI says that all the disks support synchronous transfer. Sync > > > negotiation and fast SCSI have been enabled as well. Is this a > > > limitation of the driver? > > > > No, something is not set right on that card. I am using an older version > > of the BIOS but below where it reports ``async only'' by card reports > > sync. The card is telling FreeBSD that it is in async only mode: > > I don't see anyway of telling the BT946C to do async only. It appears > that you can only disable sync for individual drives, and I've set that > that Yes for every drive. Doing a "iozone 100" results in trasfers around > 1.7meg per second. This is really sad, when the drives have a media > transfer rate of 2.7 - 5.5 MB/s. And I typicall see 4MB/sec from DEC DSP3xxx series drives: (ahb0:0:0): "DEC DSP3053LS X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > > > > > > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > > > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 > > > bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^ card is not in sync mode :-( > > > bt0: targ 0 async > > > bt0: targ 1 async > > > bt0: targ 2 async > > > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > > > bt0 at 0xe800 irq 11 on eisa slot 14 What??? You say this is a bt946C, but the probe is reporting an EISA card!!! This is wrong wrong wrong, the EISA card is a bt742, the PCI card is a bt946C. Which do you REALLY have? Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is the card set for? > > > bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > > > (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > > sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > > > (bt0:1:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > > sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > > > (bt0:2:0): "DEC DSP3210S X442" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > > sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 2049MB (4197520 512 byte sectors) > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:40:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22750 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:40:44 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22744 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:40:42 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id SAA01019; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:40:23 -0400 Received: (from gene@localhost) by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03633; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:40:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:40:14 -0400 From: Gene Stark Message-Id: <199504252240.SAA03633@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: fsl.noaa.gov!kelly@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (Sean Kelly) In-reply-to: fsl.noaa.gov!kelly@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu's message of Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:44:48 -0400 Cc: kryten.atinc.com!jmb@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, trout.sri.mt.net!nate@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, cs.weber.edu!terry@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, FreeBSD.org!hackers@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu, FreeBSD.org!phk@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: > > Jordan> I'd kill for digest format. > > Hear, hear. I'm not sure I see what the big deal is. I have all the mailing list gated into newsgroups local to my machine, and I read the groups with with normal news reading software. This keeps the clutter out of my mailbox, and allows me to see at a glance what the messages are about. - Gene From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:49:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22845 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:49:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22839 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:49:26 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA02532; Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:42:54 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504252242.AA02532@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Quantum disk drive To: joeg@truenorth.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:42:53 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> from "Joe Grosch" at Apr 25, 95 04:13:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its > a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. > Any ideas or am I SOL? They have an 800 number with a voice response system. You can look it up ont eh AT&T HTML page withthe 800 numbers on it, or call 800 information at 1-800-555-1212. > Josef Grosch | > joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." > finger for my | - Buckaroo Banzai - > public PGP key | I believe that was "Dr. Emilio Lizardo", not "Buckaroo Banzai" who said that. That one I *can* help with. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:53:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA19202 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:00:59 -0700 Received: from panther.ferrum.edu (panther.ferrum.edu [192.190.252.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA19194 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:00:56 -0700 Received: (from dunn@localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04363 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:00:19 -0400 From: "James E. Dunn" Message-Id: <199504251600.MAA04363@panther.ferrum.edu> Subject: MX record problem To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:00:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1080 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm hoping that somebody could give me some direction with this MX record error... I'm sure that I had this working, but last week I started getting mail like this: ---CUT HERE--- From daemon Tue Apr 25 11:55:05 1995 Received: from localhost (localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9)... From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error Message-Id: <199504251555.LAA04252@panther.ferrum.edu> To: postmaster Status: OR ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- dunn@ferrum.edu (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 MX list for ferrum.edu. points back to panther.ferrum.edu 554 dunn@ferrum.edu... Local configuration error ---CUT HERE--- Thanks. Jim -- __ /| | "I came... I saw... I e-mail'd..." :-) | \'o.O' | C'mon, you know who this is! Jim | =(___)= | dunn@ferrum.edu | U | "Rrrrrrr! Phhhhht! Rrrrrrr!" -Patches | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 15:55:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22896 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:55:10 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22890 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:55:05 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id SAA04054; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:50:11 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:50:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Newbie mentoring To: SimsS@infi.net cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251946.PAA06332@larry.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Pavlov's Cat wrote: > Gary, > > As a confirmed "lurker" I am really attracted to your idea about mentoring > newbies. Sign me up - I've been looking for an opportunity to give back > some of what I've taken from this forum. [snip] > So my point is this - maybe it'd be a good idea if there was some mechanism > for passing the buck so an assigned mentor could recognize that the > question/issue was out of his/her area of expertise and draw another card. > there will be such a method. just 'disown newbie@who.am.i' both you and the newbie get a confirmation. just another part of the new all-singing all-dancing newbie support package. (wait till you see the 'require backrub' virtual support daemon that is in the works) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:25:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23514 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:25:11 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23504 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:25:09 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05177; Tue, 25 Apr 95 18:24:06 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504252324.AA05177@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: MX record problem To: dunn@ferrum.edu (James E. Dunn) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:24:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251600.MAA04363@panther.ferrum.edu> from "James E. Dunn" at Apr 25, 95 12:00:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1541 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm hoping that somebody could give me some direction with this MX > record error... I'm sure that I had this working, but last week I > started getting mail like this: > > ---CUT HERE--- > From daemon Tue Apr 25 11:55:05 1995 > Received: from localhost (localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9)... > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error > Message-Id: <199504251555.LAA04252@panther.ferrum.edu> > To: postmaster > Status: OR > > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > dunn@ferrum.edu (unrecoverable error) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 554 MX list for ferrum.edu. points back to panther.ferrum.edu > 554 dunn@ferrum.edu... Local configuration error > ---CUT HERE--- Hi Jim, This probably is not an "MX record error" per se, but rather a mail configuration problem. panther.ferrum.edu does not recognize mail being sent to "ferrum.edu" as belonging to itself, and attempts to send it via the network - only to discover that the most preferential route is back to itself! I typically use the sendmail.cw feature to set a list of hostname aliases within /etc/sendmail.cw that I wish to be known as. There are other ways to do it, but I'm not convinced any are as easy and/or portable. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:28:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23600 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:28:03 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23594 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:27:59 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05202; Tue, 25 Apr 95 18:26:03 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504252326.AA05202@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? To: gene@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, nate@trout.sri.mt.net, terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252240.SAA03633@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> from "Gene Stark" at Apr 25, 95 06:40:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 849 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure I see what the big deal is. I have all the mailing list > gated into newsgroups local to my machine, and I read the groups with > with normal news reading software. This keeps the clutter out of my > mailbox, and allows me to see at a glance what the messages are about. > > - Gene Hi Gene, Maybe it has something to do with the fact that (while you and I and others can certainly do this) not everybody wants to go to the effort to do this correctly. Ultimately, I'd bet it results in messages being "dropped" when somebody starts leaking articles, etc. and the history mechanism starts rejecting articles... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:28:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23613 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:28:27 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23607 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:28:24 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <227>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:42:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504252233.PAA00327@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > What??? You say this is a bt946C, but the probe is reporting an EISA card!!! > > This is wrong wrong wrong, the EISA card is a bt742, the PCI card is a > bt946C. Which do you REALLY have? I think I'm capable of telling the difference between PCI and EISA. And this card is most definitely not EISA. This is most definitely a 946C. Julian said in a previous message that is normal for 32bit EISA/PCI controllers. Who has a EISA board with 14 slots anyway? > Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is > the card set for? The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:36:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23789 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:36:00 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23757 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:34:06 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA13570; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:35:16 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504252335.AAA13570@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Proposed gateways. To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers mailing list) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:35:16 +0100 (BST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3896 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is the current state of the gateway plans. We have a full two way gateway between questions and usenet. We have a *ONE-WAY* gateway from hackers into usenet with a note stating that the FreeBSD developers are doing this as a service to the usenet community so that people can see what we're up to but that to actually participate in those discussions they should subscscribe to the mailing lists, the pointer would be to majordomo@freebsd.org rather than to hackers itself. The new mentor/newbie scheme would use help@freebsd.org for newbies to ask questions to and a mentors@freebsd.org for the mentors to sign up to. Ok, the reasons: We need a higher profile on usenet, questions will basically be sacrificed for this purpose, If people feel that questions becomes too much for them then it's up to them whether they stick with it. In fact, discussion has suggested that many people have already made this decision and unsubscribed so those of us left probably don't mind the load :-) Hackers will be our main, general discussion list. We want usenet to see these discussions, so we gateway to usenet, but we don't want that list to get spammed and we don't want all the religious wars and general crap you get on usenet finding it's way back onto it. We provide a hint of how to actually join the list by referring to our majordomo address. We do this much anyway. If we get some problem subscribers joining because they've seen the usenet discussion then we have control over their subscription and we can toss them out very easily if they're any trouble. The newbie/mentor mechanism should not be visible to anyone who doesn't want anything to do with it so we'll create a completely separate set of lists for it. The mentor list would be controlled by Gary and basically if you want to join the scheme as a mentor you send mail to mentors to sign up. We can probably use mentors for general discussion of the scheme too (amongst the mentors and people running the scheme that is). The help@freebsd.org list will be widely advertised as the place to, well, request help from. We'll work out the details but this will be an automated queue where requests for help are assigned to mentors. All further requests for help from a particular newbie will then get re-directed to the assigned mentor, these discussions will be private between the mentor and the newbie, they won't be visible to the rest of the list. They will be archived though so we can track what the problem areas are in our user support. There'll also be mechanisms for mentors to drop newbies and vise-versa. Ok, that sort of sums up what's been discussed over the last few days with the current proposals as discussed on -core. Now to the rub, we have to take a vote on questions and hackers to accept the usenet gateway proposals before we implement it. I'll handle this. To make it simple for me send a single, separate, mail message, for each list you're on (you have to actually be on the list), stating whether you are for or against the proposal for that list. Stick the answer in the subject so I don't even have to read the thing. Something like, "questions - YES" etc. I can just dump them into appropriate folders that way and count them up pretty easily. I'll run this for about a week and then post the results. This isn't anything too formal so don't go asking for the rules :-) We're just trying to gauge opinion for each list before we go ahead and do it. Ohh, one last point. There's no decision been made as to which newsgroups we gateway to. I only seem to have misc and announce at this site for FreeBSD, what new groups actually got created? -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:43:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23943 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:43:26 -0700 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com (bakul@netcom2.netcom.com [192.100.81.108]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23935 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:43:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id QAA25442; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:42:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199504252342.QAA25442@netcom2.netcom.com> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: mycroft@ai.mit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:22:40 MDT." <9504252222.AA02359@cs.weber.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:42:34 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I didn't explain. Sorry! I assumed we would want to do lazy FP context save/restore. Once you do that, further refinements don't buy you very much. If you reread what I wrote _in this context_, may be it will make more sense. > o The FPU has a "last used by" state variable > o When the first FPU using process is run, this variable is > set to its PID. Okay. > o When a context switch occurs, the FPU state is left unchanged > if the process being switched to is a non FPU using process, > or if the process being switched to is the one that "last used" > the FPU. In my scheme, on a context switch, you _always_ leave the FPU state alone. The only thing you do on switching *to* some process P is that you set the FPU_present bit (or equivalent) only if P was the last user. This avoids an extra FPU-not-present trap on the first FP operation by P. For any other process the trap will be taken on the first FP operation. When the trap is taken, you *save* the context in the PCB of the last_used_by process and *restore* from the current proc. If the PCBs also get swapped out, that is another place where you need to save the FP context. At this time FPU is considered free so anyone can grab it. When a new image is execed, it will need some default FP state, which can be saved once at system startup time and copied to every new image. That is it! If a proc. never uses the FPU, it will never take an FP trap. Extra traps are taken only when more than one proc. is constantly using the FPU _at the same time_. You can refine this further. For example, you can save/restore `eagerly', that is, on a context switch to a FP intensive process, thereby saving a trap. Or you can switch between eager and lazy scheme depending on how many FP traps were taken recently but this is usually not worth it. Note that this is an instance of the general case where one or more processes need a `virtual' resource which is emulated by giving exclusive access to a shared resource. If this resource has considerable context that must be saved and restored and there is a way to signal that in the user mode, lazy context saving can save quite a bit. --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 16:57:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA24207 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:57:09 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24201 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:57:06 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA09137; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:56:52 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504252356.QAA09137@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252233.PAA00327@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 25, 95 03:33:47 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 778 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > > > > bt0 at 0xe800 irq 11 on eisa slot 14 this is not surprising.... the PCI stuff uses high port adresses.. I had to disable probing for EISA boards above slot 10 because on my PCI/EISA machine, the PCI h/w was false triggering on teh eisa probe for those slots and going into strange states.. the kernel just sees a port address > 0x400 and assumes that it's EISA.. (the code should be updated to take PCI into account) julian > > What??? You say this is a bt946C, but the probe is reporting an EISA card!!! > > This is wrong wrong wrong, the EISA card is a bt742, the PCI card is a > bt946C. Which do you REALLY have? > > Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is > the card set for? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:08:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24542 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:08:34 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24535 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:08:29 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00461; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:05:43 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260005.RAA00461@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 25, 95 04:41:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1729 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > What??? You say this is a bt946C, but the probe is reporting an EISA card!!! > > > > This is wrong wrong wrong, the EISA card is a bt742, the PCI card is a > > bt946C. Which do you REALLY have? > > I think I'm capable of telling the difference between PCI and EISA. > And this card is most definitely not EISA. This is most definitely a > 946C. Julian said in a previous message that is > normal for 32bit EISA/PCI controllers. Who has a EISA board > with 14 slots anyway? This is not normal for the 946C, mine has *never* reported to be on the EISA bus, and has *always* reported to be at I/O address 330. I have seen an EISA board with 14 slots. 15 actually. I think what Julian was stating is that all 32 bit btXXX cards report: PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus Because they all have the board ID ``E''. > > Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is > > the card set for? > > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are disabled, thus sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid address accourding to my 946C manual, or at least not a valid I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 is what it lists). Do you have the ``Set Host Adapter I/O Port Address as Default'' set to YES? Also from looking in the book there is an option ``Enable Fast Transfer'', this must be set to YES to get sync mode. Whould you please tell me the state of jumpers JP4 and JP5. I don't even see E800 as a valid BIOS address. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:11:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24620 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:11:03 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24609 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:10:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00471; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:06:49 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260006.RAA00471@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: MX record problem To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dunn@ferrum.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504252324.AA05177@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 25, 95 06:24:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1756 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I'm hoping that somebody could give me some direction with this MX > > record error... I'm sure that I had this working, but last week I > > started getting mail like this: > > > > ---CUT HERE--- > > From daemon Tue Apr 25 11:55:05 1995 > > Received: from localhost (localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9)... > > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > > Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error > > Message-Id: <199504251555.LAA04252@panther.ferrum.edu> > > To: postmaster > > Status: OR > > > > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > > dunn@ferrum.edu (unrecoverable error) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > 554 MX list for ferrum.edu. points back to panther.ferrum.edu > > 554 dunn@ferrum.edu... Local configuration error > > ---CUT HERE--- > > Hi Jim, > > This probably is not an "MX record error" per se, but rather a mail > configuration problem. panther.ferrum.edu does not recognize mail being > sent to "ferrum.edu" as belonging to itself, and attempts to send it via the > network - only to discover that the most preferential route is back to > itself! > > I typically use the sendmail.cw feature to set a list of hostname aliases > within /etc/sendmail.cw that I wish to be known as. There are other ways to > do it, but I'm not convinced any are as easy and/or portable. This person also has a DNS configuration problem, from when his mail hit my box: gndrsh named[81]: Lame delegation to '' from [192.80.214.100] (server for 'ferrum.EDU'?) on query on name 'ferrum.edu' -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:11:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24641 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:11:26 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA24632 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:11:22 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14406(3)>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:10:40 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:10:34 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: gj@FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How do I set a kernel variable? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Apr 95 11:40:06 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:10:30 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr25.171034pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message you write: >Maybe we should have a "-w" flag to specify opening the core-file for >writing ? Any opinions ? As it happens, adb used to have a "-w" flag to open the core-file for writing. Sounds reasonable to me, now maybe I should just ln /kernel /vmunix and ln gdb adb and I will be happy =) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:12:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24729 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:12:49 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24722 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:12:44 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA09198; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:12:30 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504260012.RAA09198@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. (Really context switch & FPU) To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, mycroft@ai.mit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252342.QAA25442@netcom2.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 25, 95 04:42:34 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 628 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, you guys, when can we see the code ?? > I didn't explain. Sorry! I assumed we would want to do > lazy FP context save/restore. Once you do that, further > refinements don't buy you very much. If you reread what I > wrote _in this context_, may be it will make more sense. > > > o The FPU has a "last used by" state variable > > o When the first FPU using process is run, this variable is > > set to its PID. > Okay. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:17:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24876 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:17:53 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24796 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:16:20 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA09230; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:16:06 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504260016.RAA09230@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Proposed gateways. To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252335.AAA13570@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 26, 95 00:35:16 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2984 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is the current state of the gateway plans. > > We have a full two way gateway between questions and usenet. > > We have a *ONE-WAY* gateway from hackers into usenet with a note > stating that the FreeBSD developers are doing this as a service to > the usenet community so that people can see what we're up to but that > to actually participate in those discussions they should subscscribe > to the mailing lists, the pointer would be to majordomo@freebsd.org rather > than to hackers itself. I would rather see a one way gate of questions.. two way will send followups to questions as well. I don't think we need this.. what we DO want is the ANSWERS to go to the usenet group as well however, 'question by mail' ---------->mojordomo------------>list with reply to: | set to user and 'answers' | |----------------> Usenet Reply-to: set to user and 'answers' "REPLY BE EMAIL" added. 'answer by mail' ---------->mojordomo------------>list | |----------------> Usenet > > The new mentor/newbie scheme would use help@freebsd.org for newbies to > ask questions to and a mentors@freebsd.org for the mentors to sign up to. yes > > > Ok, the reasons: > > We need a higher profile on usenet, questions will basically be sacrificed > for this purpose, If people feel that questions becomes too much for them > then it's up to them whether they stick with it. In fact, discussion has > suggested that many people have already made this decision and unsubscribed > so those of us left probably don't mind the load :-) questions will become the same as usenet.. this is not good questions should have questions... answers on 'answers' > > Hackers will be our main, general discussion list. We want usenet > to see these discussions, so we gateway to usenet, but we don't > want that list to get spammed and we don't want all the religious > wars and general crap you get on usenet finding it's way back onto > it. We provide a hint of how to actually join the list by referring > to our majordomo address. We allow people to juoin, but don't say so... > We do this much anyway. If we get some > problem subscribers joining because they've seen the usenet discussion > then we have control over their subscription and we can toss them > out very easily if they're any trouble. wellllllllllll, ok > > Ok, that sort of sums up what's been discussed over the last few days with > the current proposals as discussed on -core. > Now to the rub, we have to take a vote on questions and hackers to accept > the usenet gateway proposals before we implement it. I'll handle this. how about a vote category for "Want Gating 1 way or similar" > julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:21:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25110 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:21:27 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25101 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:21:21 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <218>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:35:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504260005.RAA00461@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. > > BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are disabled, thus > sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid address accourding to my > 946C manual, or at least not a valid I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 > is what it lists). e800 is a pci base port. 330, 334, etc are ISA compatible base ports. When I used 330, FreeBSD detected the card as a ISA device. I assumed that this was because of 946C 1540 compatibiliy mode, so I disabled it. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:25:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:25:57 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25144 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:24:07 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA13779; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:25:07 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504260025.BAA13779@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Proposed gateways. To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:25:06 +0100 (BST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260016.RAA09230@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 25, 95 05:16:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2222 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Julian Elischer who said > ...... > I would rather see a one way gate of questions.. > two way will send followups to questions as well. > I don't think we need this.. > what we DO want is the ANSWERS to go to the usenet group as well however, > > > 'question by mail' ---------->mojordomo------------>list with reply to: > | set to user and 'answers' > | > |----------------> Usenet > Reply-to: > set to user and 'answers' > "REPLY BE EMAIL" added. > > 'answer by mail' ---------->mojordomo------------>list > | > |----------------> Usenet Umm, if you reply to an usenet message and it gets sent to majordomo it's going to end up back on usenet anyway isn't it? I don't quite follow what you're getting at here. The reply-to field in the usenet posting would point to questions@freebsd.org so the list would see the reply and it would go back to usenet as well. This is effectively a two way gate and what I advocated. The follow-up field has to point to question too otherwise replies from the usenet side won't be seen back on questions. > > We need a higher profile on usenet, questions will basically be sacrificed > > for this purpose, If people feel that questions becomes too much for them > > then it's up to them whether they stick with it. In fact, discussion has > > suggested that many people have already made this decision and unsubscribed > > so those of us left probably don't mind the load :-) > questions will become the same as usenet.. this is not good > questions should have questions... > answers on 'answers' Umm, what exactly are you on about? Two lists, one for answers? seems pretty silly to me. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:29:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25292 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:29:13 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA25216 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:27:38 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05349; Tue, 25 Apr 95 19:26:27 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504260026.AA05349@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Proposed gateways. To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:26:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252335.AAA13570@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 26, 95 00:35:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 872 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ohh, one last point. There's no decision been made as to which newsgroups > we gateway to. I only seem to have misc and announce at this site for > FreeBSD, what new groups actually got created? Which brings up a good point: we should probably arrange for multiple injection points. This is quite legitimate and would address many of the concerns about "slow Usenet links". We probably want to consider one in Japan, Australia, Germany, probably a few other points (haven't studied the maps lately), and two points in the US. This would allow for rapid dissemination via Usenet. :-) If need be, I can probably offer spool.mu.edu as an injection point. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:34:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25516 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:34:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA25492 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:34:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "John Booth" cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:11:58 CST." <1C32B5440CE@gab.unt.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:34:19 -0700 Message-ID: <25486.798856459@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From direct (unfortunately!) experience, I can tell you that MajorBBS has a > > MHS to UUCP gateway available, as an add-on package... probably not what > > you're looking for, but worth a mention. > > > Although this may not pertain to the list. > David Harris has a few products that should help you. I Slight change of subject. MajorBBS - is it any good? I hear it runs under our favorite BBS, and Walnut Creek CDROM is *still* looking for a BBS to augment wcarchive.cdrom.com. Sure would be nice if it also ran FreeBSD! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:46:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26026 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:46:50 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA25997 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:46:36 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:56:55 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18738; Wed, 26 Apr 95 09:56:44 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504252356.AA18738@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Newbie mentoring To: SimsS@infi.net Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:56:43 +1000 (EST) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251946.PAA06332@larry.infi.net> from "Pavlov's Cat" at Apr 25, 95 03:09:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2463 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pavlov's Cat writes: > > Gary, > > As a confirmed "lurker" I am really attracted to your idea about mentoring > newbies. Sign me up - I've been looking for an opportunity to give back > some of what I've taken from this forum. Hi Steve, Thanks very much for your offer -- it's gratefully accepted!! Once we get everything organised, I'll be in touch with further details. > The only problem I see is that, unlike the hard-core -hackers folks, us > lurkers can make FreeBSD do whatever *we* need, but don't have the broad > spectrum of knowledge that, say, Terry, has. Take me, fer instance; I can .... You are too modest. I've seen you post a number of times and you're way above the true `lurker' class that I'm in :->. > So my point is this - maybe it'd be a good idea if there was some mechanism > for passing the buck so an assigned mentor could recognize that the > question/issue was out of his/her area of expertise and draw another card. I've already seen Jonathan respond on this and I'm sure we'll have some sort of super-mentor class for bemused mentors to pass the buck to. In fact, the thought occurs to me that maybe we should try to categorise newbies into about three broad classes, eg:- 1. Total newbie -- no prev experience of installing/configuring anything. 2. Unix newbie -- experience with DOS/WINDOWS, OS/2, etc but new to Unix. 3. Not really a newbie -- has unix experience but maybe not *BSD or perhaps is just struggling with some hardware/software conflict, etc. Mentors could then nominate for the type of newbie they felt comfortable with. The rgrimes and terrys of this world would handle #3 types whilst ex-newbies and true timid `lurkers' might hand-hold #1 types. Maybe we should have about 3 classes of mentors:- 1. Ex-newbie or timid lurkers who want to help but are short on experience. 2. "I've done quite a few installs/configures now and I'm really starting to get on top of all this" types. 3. True super-mentors. I'm copying this to Jonathan and Jordan so they can respond if they wish to. For everyone's information, offers of help are pouring in and I'm busy trying to acknowledge them all and take note of all the feedback. Somewhere in between I'll draft the announcements to get the information to the masses .... Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:48:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26174 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:48:16 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26154 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:48:01 -0700 Received: from localhost.boulder.parcplace.com (localhost.boulder.parcplace.com [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA23052; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:46:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199504260046.SAA23052@rover.village.org> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Subject: Re: #if instead of .if Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 21 Apr 1995 23:12:22 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:46:01 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : you can't use #. See how much trouble the X/imake folks go through : (use XCOMM in their Imakefile, which are replaced with # for Makefile, : ugh) to avoid this problem. That is done because cpp on some systems whines loudly or refuses to work when you don't have a valid directive name after the #. It has little to do with the comment directive duality. In fact, many languages use this: 1) Dec Fortran has CDEC xxx in column 1 (a comment by any other name... 2) lint has /*NOTREACHED*/ 3) Various flavors of pascal use (*$XXX=YYY*) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 17:51:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26454 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:51:38 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26430 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:51:26 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <210>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:05:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504260005.RAA00461@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is > > > the card set for? > > > > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. > > BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are disabled, thus > sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid address accourding to my > 946C manual, or at least not a valid I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 > is what it lists). There appears to be no way to enable the BIOS. This is sorta confusing. The AutoSCSI utility works, so the BIOS must be accessible, but the AutoSCSI says it is "Disabled" and offers no way of changing it. > Do you have the ``Set Host Adapter I/O Port Address as Default'' set > to YES? Tried it both ways. When set to Default, it detects it as a ISA card. When set to disabled, and FreeBSD is set to use base port e800, it detects it a EISA card. > Also from looking in the book there is an option ``Enable Fast Transfer'', > this must be set to YES to get sync mode. There are all on YES. > Whould you please tell me the state of jumpers JP4 and JP5. They are both off. I tried a couple different configurations with just JP4 on, or just JP5 on, but the machine reached the Buslogic screen and just stopped. The AutoSCSI util reports that the BIOS is at C800 > I don't even see E800 as a valid BIOS address. It is the IO port, not the BIOS address. I never refered to it a BIOS address. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:00:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA26951 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:00:59 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA26944 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:00:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03167; Tue, 25 Apr 95 18:53:35 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504260053.AA03167@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Shlib complaints ( was Re: benchmark hell..) To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 18:53:35 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252149.PAA13343@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 25, 95 03:49:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yes, I think they would be about 10% slower (there is some > > question as to whether the "10%" number was arrive at > > legitimately, or whether the actual number is smaller, and > > the "10%" is an inflated value because the benchmarks didn't > > take into account the average time a program would be running > > (making the dynamic link overhead a significant fraction of > > the resulting benchmark run time -- say 10%). > > Whoa. Did you read what I read? My question was (in more obvious wording) > > "Would linking a program static using a static library made up of PIC > compiled objects cause run-time penalties" > > There are no run-time linking issues involved whatsoever, since we are > linking the program statically. Basically, my question boils down to > the differences between PIC objects and non-PIC objects. The only numbers I've seen assume a penalty because of dynamic fixup and another runtime penalty. The total of the two is (supposedly) 10%. Like I said, I don't know the relative penalty if statically linked PIC'ed code. I *suspect* that there will be some penalty, but I couln't place a bet as the what it would be except to say 0 < x < 10%. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:05:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27224 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:05:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA27204 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:05:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FAQ mailing list In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:19:19 PDT." <199504251919.MAA08076@ref.tfs.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: <27200.798858299@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a (or could there be) an FAQ alias > that points to people who keep the FAQs up to date.. > I often see things that should be in and FAQ > and would write regular FAQ items if I there > was an easy thing to do with them.... > > julian Most definitely. Send your contributions to faq@Freebsd.org. Ollivier Robert is the current FAQ maintainer. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:05:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27206 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:05:04 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27189 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:04:51 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA23955 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:06:32 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504260106.VAA23955@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: Buslogic? (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:06:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 842 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had to change a lot of the default pci bios settings on my motherboard to get the bt946c to fly. I had to turn on pci multimedia mode, turn on 32 bit transfers, adjust the clocking of data transfers on pci. The pci bios also had many other settings for the address range of the card, the interrupt number, and so forth. After fooling around for two days with the various card settings and motherboard settings I finally got it to work. Now it screams. I had to make a dos floppy with their drivers and use DOS to get it going at first. After I had it doing the right thing with DOS I switched to freebsd and had no trouble. Can you tell us if you have other PCI cards in your system? Can you tell us if you have another SCSI card in your system? What devices do you have on your scsi chain? Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:07:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27433 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:07:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27424 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:07:48 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA00757; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:04:47 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260104.SAA00757@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 25, 95 06:05:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3402 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > I give up, call BusLogic technical support and ask them why your card is reporting in the extended info command that the card is set to async only mode. (408) 654-0760 This is from the followind data structure at line 330 of bt742.c: struct bt_ext_info { u_char bus_type; /* Host adapter bus type */ u_char bios_addr; /* Bios Address-Not used */ u_short max_seg; /* Max segment List */ u_char num_mbx; /* Number of mailbox */ int32 mbx_base; /* mailbox base address */ struct { u_char resv1:2; /* ??? */ u_char maxsync:1; /* ON: 10MB/s , OFF: 5MB/s */ u_char resv2:2; /* ??? */ u_char sync:1; /* ON: Sync, OFF: async ONLY!! */ >>>>> HERE <<<<<< this bit is 0 for your controller for some reason :-(. u_char resv3:2; /* ??? */ } s; u_char firmid[3]; /* Firmware ver. & rev. w/o last char */ }; > > > > Do you have the BIOS enabled on the bt card? What I/O address is > > > > the card set for? > > > > > > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. > > > > BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are disabled, thus > > sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid address accourding to my > > 946C manual, or at least not a valid I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 > > is what it lists). > > There appears to be no way to enable the BIOS. This is sorta > confusing. The AutoSCSI utility works, so the BIOS must be accessible, > but the AutoSCSI says it is "Disabled" and offers no way of changing it. Oh, yea, that is right, you can't disable the BIOS, you can make it go away on some motherboards that don't do the PNP stuff right by setting JP4 and JP5 to be both OFF, this is ``System BIOS'' mode. It is also what you set it to if you have more than 1 card for the 2nd and later cards :-). > > > Do you have the ``Set Host Adapter I/O Port Address as Default'' set > > to YES? > > Tried it both ways. When set to Default, it detects it as a ISA card. > When set to disabled, and FreeBSD is set to use base port e800, it > detects it a EISA card. I've always left it set to default. > > Also from looking in the book there is an option ``Enable Fast Transfer'', > > this must be set to YES to get sync mode. > > There are all on YES. > > > Whould you please tell me the state of jumpers JP4 and JP5. > > They are both off. I tried a couple different configurations with just > JP4 on, or just JP5 on, but the machine reached the Buslogic screen and > just stopped. The AutoSCSI util reports that the BIOS is at C800 You motherboard is one of the few that I have seen that actually will work with the bt946C set to this mode. Is what I have found is that if it you have JP4/JP5 set for system bios and it hangs, set it for one of the addresses and it usually works. I have never seen a MB that will run it either way :-(. > > > I don't even see E800 as a valid BIOS address. > > It is the IO port, not the BIOS address. I never refered to it a BIOS > address. No, but it suspeciosly looked like one, and since I have never bothered to turn off the set host adapter I/O port address as default thing, I have never seen a card use anything but the 330, 334, ... addresses. > > Tom > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:10:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27602 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:10:53 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27587 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:10:37 -0700 Received: from localhost.boulder.parcplace.com (localhost.boulder.parcplace.com [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA23162; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:08:34 -0600 Message-Id: <199504260108.TAA23162@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:44:41 MDT Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:08:34 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : For him the ELF transition made his workload orders of magnitude easier. I'll tell you that the lack of ELF was one reason that I didn't agressive try to get an OI 4.5 released when it came time to do so on Linux. Then Politics got in the way..... The shared libraries on FreeBSD are a dream to build. The ones on Linux (non-elf) are a drug-induced nightmare of epic proportions. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:11:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27670 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:11:37 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27656 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:11:27 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00904; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:05:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:05:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: John Booth cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway In-Reply-To: <1C32B5440CE@gab.unt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, John Booth wrote: > > > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > > > point me in the right direction? > > > > From direct (unfortunately!) experience, I can tell you that MajorBBS has a > > MHS to UUCP gateway available, as an add-on package... probably not what > > you're looking for, but worth a mention. > > > Although this may not pertain to the list. > David Harris has a few products that should help you. I > belive the Chaeron package he makes will work as a MHS to > Internet gateway. He should be able to fill you in. His E- > mail address is david@pmail.gen.nz Otherwise, writing something that parses inbound SMTP format messages into MHS and back is trivial. A shell script could do it for you. [I've used MajorBBS' MHS to UUCP package so I know - They also have an internet connectivity package that is supposed to handle SMTP now. If not, PC-Board and TBBS do]. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:18:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28027 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:18:19 -0700 Received: from grep.cs.fsu.edu (grep.cs.fsu.edu [128.186.121.152]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28003 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:17:52 -0700 Received: by grep.cs.fsu.edu (8.6.9/56) id VAA05820; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:17:43 -0400 From: Gang-Ryung Uh Message-Id: <199504260117.VAA05820@grep.cs.fsu.edu> Subject: Two Problems? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:17:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1320 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, all... I have been playing with the system initialization files as a root because of PS2 mouse, speaker, and printer, modem..... Now I believe I have decent progress in those matters: But I have a couple of problems as a normal user: First: I can not run the x-window as a regular user? I have installed XFree86.3.1.1 recently. The error message is TRANS(SocketUNIXConnect) () can't connect: errno = 13 . giving up. xinit: Interrupted system call (errno 4): unable to connect to X server xinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error. . Second: I can not use the finger command??? [/usr/users/uh] /usr/bin/finger finger: Permission denied I did check the permission of finger & utmp & lastlog. The file permission is as follows, -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 8428 Apr 22 12:22 /var/log/lastlog -r-xr-xr-x 1 bin bin 20480 Nov 22 12:21 /usr/bin/finger -rw-r--r-- 1 root bin 504 Apr 22 12:22 /var/run/utmp If you have any clue, would you please let me know? Thanks you all. Regards, --Uh ---------------------- Uh Gang-Ryung e-mail: uh@cs.fsu.edu Work Phone: 644-3366 ---------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:20:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28152 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:20:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28077 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:19:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jaye Mathisen cc: John Booth , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: List management: DIGEST TIME? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 95 14:02:05 PDT." Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:19:23 -0700 Message-ID: <28072.798859163@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, John Booth wrote: > > > > > creating digests are not a problem. is this desired by people on > > > > the lists? gentlemen, what say you? jordan, poul? > > > > > > I'd kill for digest format. > > I'd kill Jordan and John for digest format. Boy, talk about your "violent agreement." :-) Hey, Jaye, you moved on out of cow country or what? That's a new address I see! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:24:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:24:13 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28300 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:23:59 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id SAA20990 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:23:46 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504260123.SAA20990@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. (Really context switch & FPU) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:23:41 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <199504260012.RAA09198@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 25, 95 05:12:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 839 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, you guys, when can we see the code ?? > > > I didn't explain. Sorry! I assumed we would want to do > > lazy FP context save/restore. Once you do that, further > > refinements don't buy you very much. If you reread what I > > wrote _in this context_, may be it will make more sense. > > > > > o The FPU has a "last used by" state variable > > > o When the first FPU using process is run, this variable is > > > set to its PID. > > Okay. I've implemented this in a couple of real-time OS's and it really is a big win -- especially if the FPU can execute in parallel with the CPU's execution unit (some FPU's can't) and you invest the time hooking the FPU traps to do belated switches *only on demand*. It does have some impact on real-time determinism ... but I doubt that would be a real issue in FBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:29:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28603 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:29:13 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28589 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:28:55 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA14556; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:27:52 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504260127.CAA14556@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:27:52 +0100 (BST) Cc: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504252229.AA04514@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Apr 25, 95 05:29:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1047 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Boyd Faulkner who said > > I'm game, but I have one concern. It might be wise to match up people based > on hardware. Sending me a question about mitsumi cd rom drives is not > going to get an informed answer. I realize that a forms based approach > is a pain in the ass but it would make better matching easier to automate. > > If not, the ability to route newbies to the proper pool after being > automatically assigned would be OK. I just don't want some poor clod to > bounce around until someone (and remember, we are talking the lurker here) > with the proper experience and hardware gets it. We could have a re-queue list so if a mentor gets asigned a problem they can't handle they can bounce it re-queue and it'll get unassigned from them and re-assigned to a new mentor. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:39:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA29153 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:39:36 -0700 Received: from grep.cs.fsu.edu (grep.cs.fsu.edu [128.186.121.152]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA29130 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:39:19 -0700 Received: by grep.cs.fsu.edu (8.6.9/56) id VAA05976; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:39:13 -0400 From: Gang-Ryung Uh Message-Id: <199504260139.VAA05976@grep.cs.fsu.edu> Subject: Colorado 250MB To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1461 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have been trying all sorts of config combination to make my kernel to be able to probe the Colorado 250MB tape drive. I have 1.44MB 3.5in drive & Colorado tape drive which are connected to on-board floppy controller (my machine does not have 5.25in drive.) Following is my entry in the kernel config for that floppy controller: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Believe or not I tried all possible combination of assinging drive numbers to each drive... Also I tried the rebuilt kernel with commenting the entry fd1. But I could not succeed on that matter.) Following is the information during the boot process: --------------------------------------- fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: [0: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in] --------------------------------------- As you realize only my 3.5in floppy drive is configured. If you have similar experinece like me, would you respond me on this matter? By the way I am running FreeBSD2.0R.. I am also wondering whether my case is known problem in FreeBSD2.0 or not. Thanks. Regards, --Uh ---------------------- Uh Gang-Ryung e-mail: uh@cs.fsu.edu Work Phone: 644-3366 ---------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 18:57:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA00114 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:57:13 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA00100 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:56:53 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:47:54 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18879; Wed, 26 Apr 95 10:47:42 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260047.AA18879@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:47:41 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504252229.AA04514@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Apr 25, 95 05:29:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3035 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Boyd Faulkner writes: > I'm game, but I have one concern. It might be wise to match up people based Hi Boyd, Thanks very much for your offer -- it's gratefully accepted!! Once we get everything organised, I'll be in touch with further details. > on hardware. Sending me a question about mitsumi cd rom drives is not > going to get an informed answer. I realize that a forms based approach > is a pain in the ass but it would make better matching easier to automate. I'll let others respond on the feasibility of doing something like that. In many ways I don't really see a *burning* need to do this immediately because one of the major aims is to skim off a large fraction of newbie questions into private e-mail and let the developers get on with what we're paying them to do *huge grin*. As long as we skim off a goodly fraction, the system will work. The mentor should be able to direct the newbie towards FAQs, READMEs, etc, or to a super-mentor. As a last resort, the query gets out onto a public list where someone who does know the answer can respond. My guess is that less than 20% of newbie queries would end up needing a true `guru' or developer response. > If not, the ability to route newbies to the proper pool after being > automatically assigned would be OK. I just don't want some poor clod to > bounce around until someone (and remember, we are talking the lurker here) > with the proper experience and hardware gets it. They are more likely to be bouncing around and getting pissed off under the current syatem. Just the fact that someone is *trying* to help should have a huge calming effect. And because we've imposed that extra layer between the developers and frustrated newbies, the overloaded mailboxes must get *some* benefit. No system is ever going to be perfect but our ability to scream *personalised service*, *personalised service*, is sure as hell going to attract a lot of new users and should also make commercial developers sit up and take a lot more interest in porting their wares to FreeBSD. It's a pity we can't patent the concept and stop the Linux camp from jumping on the bandwagon :-> ;->. > You would all be pissed if I posted every question I got here so that I > could answer newbie questions for hardware I don't have. I would. :-) Ahhh, you are being too modest here. I've seen your previous contributions. Someone with your knowledge and skill would be able to dig around and find some suitable info for the newbie without having to bother the developers, even if you knew nothing about the hardware concerned. Remember, it's just one poor little timid newbie that you are helping :->. I'm sure you'll go that extra mile to get his question answered without bothering the developers :->. Go on .... You can do it .... :->. Seriously, thanks again for joining up and thanks for your feedback. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 19:07:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA00398 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:07:02 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA00358 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:06:28 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03716; Tue, 25 Apr 95 19:59:29 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504260159.AA03716@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: #if instead of .if To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 19:59:29 MDT Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=), rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hsu@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504260046.SAA23052@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Apr 25, 95 06:46:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : you can't use #. See how much trouble the X/imake folks go through > : (use XCOMM in their Imakefile, which are replaced with # for Makefile, > : ugh) to avoid this problem. > > That is done because cpp on some systems whines loudly or refuses to > work when you don't have a valid directive name after the #. It has > little to do with the comment directive duality. > > In fact, many languages use this: > 1) Dec Fortran has CDEC xxx in column 1 (a comment by any > other name... > 2) lint has /*NOTREACHED*/ Lint has a hell of a lot more than that! I guess you could argue precedent, if we had lint. ;^). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 19:25:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA01113 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:25:16 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA01090 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:24:53 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03986; Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:17:27 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504260217.AA03986@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: Julian.H.Stacey@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:17:27 MDT Cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, bde@zeta.org.au, julian@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504240853.KAA00394@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 24, 95 10:53:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I hope you'll think of "mor" and remember me fondly. 8^). > Well I tried > sh > . ./mor > mor < /etc/printcap > and it worked :-) > So thanks, I'll keep it as a nice example of shell procedures, but I'm not > sure if it should go into my ~root/.profile, do you have it in yours ? No, I just rememebr it when I need it and type it in. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 19:44:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA01939 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:44:28 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA01877 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:43:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04177 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:35:43 GMT Message-Id: <199504251935.TAA04177@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: minor update to the sound driver. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:35:42 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just uploaded to ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/sound.v30.2.tar.gz It has a minor changed to ad1848.c to allow the GUS MAX to work properly And Jim is the one who fixed it :) Someone reponded to a different posting looking for some 3d stuff and it turns out that my ftp directory over at best.com was unreadable (Jim also reported this problem this morning however he has an account on my home machine so is not really a big problem for him). If the sound driver gets checked in into the main release and people start complaining about bugs in the driver , well I will save you the steam and sparks that I am going to generate. The driver is small and to build it is a minor effort . Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 19:45:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA01980 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:45:37 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA01919 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:44:16 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01202; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:32:11 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:32:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: "Rashid Karimov." , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , rcarter@geli.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Beer In-Reply-To: <199504221048.MAA07717@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Julian Howard Stacey wrote: > we could also extablish a little archive of faces somewhere > for use by xface within exmh etc, ...blackmail, etc.. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:05:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA02901 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:05:58 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA02887 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:05:47 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <146>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:20:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:19:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199504260106.VAA23955@ns1.win.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Mark Hittinger wrote: > I had to change a lot of the default pci bios settings on my motherboard > to get the bt946c to fly. It works now, just very slowly (about 1.5 to 2.0 MB/s). It appears that this a result of asynch transfers (during bootup it states "async only" rather than "sync", or better yet "fast sync"). I suspect the problem may lie with the onboard BIOS as it is newest that anyone's seen. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:10:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03123 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:10:02 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA03108 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:09:53 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA20490; Wed, 26 Apr 95 03:09:15 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA05055; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:09:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:09:35 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504260309.AA05055@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA055825774; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:09:34 -0600 To: tom@haven.uniserve.com Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Tom Samplonius on Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:35:04 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Buslogic? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Samplonius writes: Tom> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. >> >> BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are >> disabled, thus sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid >> address accourding to my 946C manual, or at least not a valid >> I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 is what it lists). Tom> e800 is a pci base port. 330, 334, etc are ISA compatible Tom> base ports. When I used 330, FreeBSD detected the card as a Tom> ISA device. I assumed that this was because of 946C 1540 Tom> compatibiliy mode, so I disabled it. And then there's my 946C which still insists as showing up as an ISA device. The card is in a PCI master slot, the slot's enabled under CMOS with mastering=enabled. Under AutoSCSI, it says it's at 334. I can't find anyplace in AutoSCSI that refers to `1540 compatibility mode' or `ISA mode' except ISA DRQ compatiblity setting, which I've got set to `None'. Nowhere in the docs does it mention port address like e800---330, 334, 230, 234, 130, and 134 are the only ones I could find. JP4 and JP5 are both jumpered, if that matters. The card isn't detected at all if I remove both jumpers---at least one has to be in place. I tried booting with -c and setting the I/O port to e800, but the kernel always reports `bt0 not found at e800'. At least I get sync mode. Any ideas? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA An unknown ensign beams down as part of an away team and lives to tell the tale. -- One of 46 things that never happen on Star Trek From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:20:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03668 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:20:51 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03645 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:20:29 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <139>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:34:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:33:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504260104.SAA00757@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > This is from the followind data structure at line 330 of bt742.c: > > struct bt_ext_info { > u_char bus_type; /* Host adapter bus type */ > u_char bios_addr; /* Bios Address-Not used */ > u_short max_seg; /* Max segment List */ > u_char num_mbx; /* Number of mailbox */ > int32 mbx_base; /* mailbox base address */ > struct { > u_char resv1:2; /* ??? */ > u_char maxsync:1; /* ON: 10MB/s , OFF: 5MB/s */ > u_char resv2:2; /* ??? */ > u_char sync:1; /* ON: Sync, OFF: async ONLY!! */ > >>>>> HERE <<<<<< this bit is 0 for your controller for some reason :-(. > > u_char resv3:2; /* ??? */ > } s; > u_char firmid[3]; /* Firmware ver. & rev. w/o last char */ > }; Hmm, I'll see if I can build a kernel tonight that forces it on, and use sync whether the BT946C likes it or not. The worst that could happen is badly managled filesystems. There could be a problem with the ROM version that I have (or perhaps a new "feature"). Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:35:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04369 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:35:31 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04356 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:35:23 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA08305; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:30:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:30:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199504260330.UAA08305@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <9504252356.AA18738@wcs.uq.edu.au> (message from Gary Roberts on Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:56:43 +1000 (EST)) Subject: Re: Newbie mentoring From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami | =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * 1. Ex-newbie or timid lurkers who want to help but are short on experience. * * 2. "I've done quite a few installs/configures now and I'm really starting * to get on top of all this" types. * * 3. True super-mentors. Okay, count me in for one newbie too. I think I classify as 1. Or maybe 1 1/2 if you want to stretch. (No hardware questions though.) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:41:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04799 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:41:27 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04788 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:41:17 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <146>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:55:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Sean Kelly cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <9504260309.AA05055@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > Tom> e800 is a pci base port. 330, 334, etc are ISA compatible > Tom> base ports. When I used 330, FreeBSD detected the card as a > Tom> ISA device. I assumed that this was because of 946C 1540 > Tom> compatibiliy mode, so I disabled it. > > And then there's my 946C which still insists as showing up as an ISA > device. The card is in a PCI master slot, the slot's enabled under > CMOS with mastering=enabled. Under AutoSCSI, it says it's at 334. I > can't find anyplace in AutoSCSI that refers to `1540 compatibility > mode' or `ISA mode' except ISA DRQ compatiblity setting, which I've > got set to `None'. Nowhere in the docs does it mention port address > like e800---330, 334, 230, 234, 130, and 134 are the only ones I could > find. I E800 mentioned at the bottom of the main AutoSCSI screen near the bottom. I also see it when I choose "Select Adapter". My card may be newer.... I also have option on *not* using a ISA IO port at all! > JP4 and JP5 are both jumpered, if that matters. The card isn't > detected at all if I remove both jumpers---at least one has to be in > place. I need to leave the jumpers off, or it won't boot. My motherboard insists on autoconfiging the card :) (nice to have PCI that works!). > I tried booting with -c and setting the I/O port to e800, but the > kernel always reports `bt0 not found at e800'. At least I get sync > mode. All this did for me, was detect it as EISA device! Performance showed no changed. I wouldn't worry about it unless your 946C is a slow as mine! Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:45:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04964 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:45:06 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA04942 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:44:57 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:38:51 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19329; Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:38:35 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260338.AA19329@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:38:34 +1000 (EST) Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260127.CAA14556@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 26, 95 02:27:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 969 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: > We could have a re-queue list so if a mentor gets asigned a problem they > can't handle they can bounce it re-queue and it'll get unassigned from > them and re-assigned to a new mentor. If we already have a relationship established, we want to preserve it if possible. The mentor has that newbie's past history which is then lost if the newbie is too easily bounced on to a new mentor. Wouldn't it be better for the mentor to ask (say on the mentors list) and see if anyone can give him a quick pointer to the answer. That way the newbie retains his one to one relationship, *and* his confidence in his mentor. Maybe a mentor could bounce the very *first* request he gets from a particular newbie if he feels (for example) that this newbie is already more advanced than he is. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:45:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04948 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:45:02 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA04936 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:44:54 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:14:58 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19295; Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:14:47 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260314.AA19295@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Proposed gateways. (Mentoring side anyway ...) To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:14:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504252335.AAA13570@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 26, 95 00:35:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2229 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards writes: [gateway stuff elided -- I'll just respond about mentoring] > The new mentor/newbie scheme would use help@freebsd.org for newbies to > ask questions to and a mentors@freebsd.org for the mentors to sign up to. I believe majordomo eventually will be handling people offering to become mentors and newbies seeking assistance. At the moment I'm receiving offers from mentors and I'm grateful to those who have put their hands up. Until the automated mechanism is available, please send offers to be a mentor to me. I believe that Jordan has set up new-users@FreeBSD.org to point directly to me. > Ok, the reasons: > > The newbie/mentor mechanism should not be visible to anyone who doesn't > want anything to do with it so we'll create a completely separate set > of lists for it. The mentor list would be controlled by Gary and basically > if you want to join the scheme as a mentor you send mail to mentors to > sign up. We can probably use mentors for general discussion of the scheme > too (amongst the mentors and people running the scheme that is). The details of how all this will work are still being worked out. I like the idea of a list where members of the "FreeBSD Mentors' Club (tm)" can hang out and share experiences and perhaps say things like - "I've got this curly problem with Mitsumi CDROM drives ... Anyone know anything about those ... " > The help@freebsd.org list will be widely advertised as the place to, well, > request help from. We'll work out the details but this will be an automated > queue where requests for help are assigned to mentors. All further requests > for help from a particular newbie will then get re-directed to the assigned > mentor, these discussions will be private between the mentor and the newbie, > they won't be visible to the rest of the list. They will be archived though > so we can track what the problem areas are in our user support. There'll also > be mechanisms for mentors to drop newbies and vise-versa. All this is being looked at and will (eventually) happen. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 20:48:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA05074 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:48:37 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA05067 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:48:33 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA10515; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:47:59 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504260347.UAA10515@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au (Gary Roberts) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504260338.AA19329@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 26, 95 01:38:34 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 524 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if the newbie is too easily bounced on to a new mentor. Wouldn't it be > better for the mentor to ask (say on the mentors list) and see if anyone > can give him a quick pointer to the answer. That way the newbie retains > his one to one relationship, *and* his confidence in his mentor. Maybe And the mentor might learn something too :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:01:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05600 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:01:29 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA05592 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:01:25 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA21741; Wed, 26 Apr 95 04:00:53 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA12862; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:01:14 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:01:14 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504260401.AA12862@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA087538873; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:01:13 -0600 To: tom@haven.uniserve.com Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Tom Samplonius on Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:54:52 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Buslogic? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Samplonius writes: Tom> I E800 mentioned at the bottom of the main AutoSCSI screen Tom> near the bottom. I also see it when I choose "Select Tom> Adapter". My card may be newer.... I also have option on Tom> *not* using a ISA IO port at all! Must be! I have firmware rev 4.22 and BIOS rev 4.86. You? Tom> I need to leave the jumpers off, or it won't boot. My Tom> motherboard insists on autoconfiging the card :) (nice to Tom> have PCI that works!). Finally! >> I tried booting with -c and setting the I/O port to e800, but >> the kernel always reports `bt0 not found at e800'. At least I >> get sync mode. Tom> All this did for me, was detect it as EISA device! Tom> Performance showed no changed. I wouldn't worry about it Tom> unless your 946C is a slow as mine! In the 2.0-RELEASE isa.c, line 454 or so, the following shows up: if (isdp->id_iobase >= 0x1000) { printf (" on eisa\n"); } else { printf (" on isa\n"); } So, I'll try to stop worrying about it ... next step: going to fast sync mode. Good luck. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA When you're going up the stairs and you take a step, kick the other leg up high behind you to keep people from following too close. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:04:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05681 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:04:58 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA05675 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:04:51 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:04:11 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19404; Wed, 26 Apr 95 14:03:50 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260403.AA19404@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:03:49 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260347.UAA10515@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 25, 95 08:47:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1184 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > if the newbie is too easily bounced on to a new mentor. Wouldn't it be > > better for the mentor to ask (say on the mentors list) and see if anyone > > can give him a quick pointer to the answer. That way the newbie retains > > his one to one relationship, *and* his confidence in his mentor. Maybe > And the mentor might learn something too :-) Yes, exactly!!! For the last 15 years my daytime job (which I love) has involved teaching others about a subject where the student undoubtedly knows more about some aspects of it than the Instructor. Initially I was scared shitless and felt like a complete fraud. I'm still enjoying my job and I've learnt a *hell* of a lot by having to stay one step ahead of the students. You really do learn fast by being thrown in the deep end and its very good for your self-esteem when you do survive it all. Forcing yourself to be a mentor and sticking with your newbie *will* be good for you. Trust me ... :->. Thanks for your support, Poul. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:15:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA06163 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:15:06 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA06156 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:15:01 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:14:43 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19440; Wed, 26 Apr 95 14:14:31 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260414.AA19440@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: Newbie mentoring To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:14:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260330.UAA08305@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "asami@cs.berkeley.edu" at Apr 25, 95 08:30:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 807 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk asami@cs.berkeley.edu writes: > * 1. Ex-newbie or timid lurkers who want to help but are short on experience. > * > * 2. "I've done quite a few installs/configures now and I'm really starting > * to get on top of all this" types. > * > * 3. True super-mentors. > > Okay, count me in for one newbie too. I think I classify as 1. Or > maybe 1 1/2 if you want to stretch. (No hardware questions though.) > > Satoshi > Bullshit!!! You're definitely 2++ material if ever I saw it :->. Seriously, you are too modest and your offer is gratefully accepted!! Once we get everything organised, I'll be in touch with further details. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA06343 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:22:12 -0700 Received: from ain.charm.net (ain.charm.net [198.69.35.206]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06337 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:22:10 -0700 Received: (from nc@localhost) by ain.charm.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01700; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:16:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:16:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: John Booth , Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway In-Reply-To: <25486.798856459@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Slight change of subject. MajorBBS - is it any good? I hear it > runs under our favorite BBS, and Walnut Creek CDROM is *still* > looking for a BBS to augment wcarchive.cdrom.com. Sure would be > nice if it also ran FreeBSD! :-) > I am not clear whether you want unix to run under MajorBBS or the otherway around. The IS a unix version of MajorBBS that supports BSDI, I don't know it will run perfectly under FreeBSD. A cheaper [cost wise] package is the Dos version which will talk to the internet with some add-on packages. As an aside [to anyone], I have an 8-user version of MajorBBS/DOS w/ the Internet Gateway and a few other goodies for sale. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:32:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA06404 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:32:36 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06397 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:32:33 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id AAA12558; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:27:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:27:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Pre-Alpha of mentor and disown commands To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Gary Roberts , paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260347.UAA10515@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk well, these two commands are ready. give them a try, but remember its live--if each of us tries to adopt terry, terry will be a congratulations message ;) try: mail majordomo@kauai.atinc.com <---------- KAUAI not kryten mentor terry@where.ever.he.is disown rush@he.still.yammers end syntax: mentor
Adopt a new FreeBSD user, answer his questions. disown
End an adoption. see mentor. messages are sent to both mentor and newbie is adoption or disown'ing succeeds...else mail to mentor only anyone want to redo the text of these messages? to do: nearly everything. ;) next step: perl script to receive questions and divvy them out to mentors who have registered by subscribing to 'mentors' outstanding issue: id tagging questions. what about place the result of time() as the first word of the subject line. if everyone responds, its always there for us--it can also be the name of the file that the conversion is recorded into. well, i gotta sleep...attending SANS tomorrow provided my boss didnt freak overnight ;))) talk with y'all tomorrow night. jmb Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 21:47:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA06551 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:47:56 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06545 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:47:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01145; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:45:09 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260445.VAA01145@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado 250MB To: uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu (Gang-Ryung Uh) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260139.VAA05976@grep.cs.fsu.edu> from "Gang-Ryung Uh" at Apr 25, 95 09:39:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 910 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > I have been trying all sorts of config combination to make > my kernel to be able to probe the Colorado 250MB tape drive. > > I have 1.44MB 3.5in drive & Colorado tape drive which are > connected to on-board floppy controller (my machine does not > have 5.25in drive.) > > Following is my entry in the kernel config for that floppy > controller: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr Change that to: controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio flags 0x1 irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr The floppy tape code was purposely disabled by default with this flag to stop a problem in 2.0 when it tried to probe some types of tape drives. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:00:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06697 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:00:30 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA06691 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:00:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01204; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:57:13 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260457.VAA01204@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504260309.AA05055@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 25, 95 11:09:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2415 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is for Sean to get him working... > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Samplonius writes: > > Tom> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > >> > The BIOS is disabled. The card is set for e800. > >> > >> BINGO... with the BIOS disabled the advanced features are > >> disabled, thus sync mode is disabled. E800 is not a valid > >> address accourding to my 946C manual, or at least not a valid > >> I/O address. (330,334,230,234,130,134 is what it lists). > > Tom> e800 is a pci base port. 330, 334, etc are ISA compatible > Tom> base ports. When I used 330, FreeBSD detected the card as a > Tom> ISA device. I assumed that this was because of 946C 1540 > Tom> compatibiliy mode, so I disabled it. > > And then there's my 946C which still insists as showing up as an ISA > device. The card is in a PCI master slot, the slot's enabled under > CMOS with mastering=enabled. Under AutoSCSI, it says it's at 334. I Okay, so it is set at 0x334... see below... > can't find anyplace in AutoSCSI that refers to `1540 compatibility > mode' or `ISA mode' except ISA DRQ compatiblity setting, which I've > got set to `None'. Nowhere in the docs does it mention port address > like e800---330, 334, 230, 234, 130, and 134 are the only ones I could > find. > > JP4 and JP5 are both jumpered, if that matters. The card isn't > detected at all if I remove both jumpers---at least one has to be in > place. If you can get into AutoSCSI with JP4 and JP5 installed, then leave it set that way. This is the factory default, and what I have found to be the most common working setup for the card. > > I tried booting with -c and setting the I/O port to e800, but the > kernel always reports `bt0 not found at e800'. At least I get sync > mode. Try -c and set the I/O address to 334, the stock kernel uses the defaults of 330: gndrsh# grep bt0 GENERIC controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr gndrsh# grep IO_BT0 /sys/i386/isa/isa.h #define IO_BT0 0x330 /* bustek 742a default addr. */ > > Any ideas? Either change your default I/O address in AutoSCSI to 0x330, or boot the kernel -c and set the bt0 driver to 0x334 to match your card. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:03:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06775 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:03:31 -0700 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (anvil.appsmiths.com [198.65.131.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA06770 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:03:29 -0700 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA01448; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:03:02 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199504260503.AAA01448@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: Colorado 250MB To: uh@grep.cs.fsu.edu (Gang-Ryung Uh) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:03:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260139.VAA05976@grep.cs.fsu.edu> from "Gang-Ryung Uh" at Apr 25, 95 09:38:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1228 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk :: :: Hi, :: :: I have been trying all sorts of config combination to make :: my kernel to be able to probe the Colorado 250MB tape drive. :: :: I have 1.44MB 3.5in drive & Colorado tape drive which are :: connected to on-board floppy controller (my machine does not :: have 5.25in drive.) :: :: Following is my entry in the kernel config for that floppy :: controller: :: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- :: controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr change to: controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio flags 1 irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr You can also enable this through the use of '-c' boot option. When you do this, you will get some errors during startup when the floppy probe runs. These are 'normal' for now. Remember to use 'ft' to do I/O to the tape. -- =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:19:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07045 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:19:28 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07039 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:19:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01243; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:16:38 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260516.WAA01243@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260347.UAA10515@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 25, 95 08:47:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1433 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > if the newbie is too easily bounced on to a new mentor. Wouldn't it be > > better for the mentor to ask (say on the mentors list) and see if anyone > > can give him a quick pointer to the answer. That way the newbie retains > > his one to one relationship, *and* his confidence in his mentor. Maybe > And the mentor might learn something too :-) And the list for the mentor to ask this on already exists, and is full of excelent tallent. It is this list, hackers!! We are going way way over board on pie in the sky stuff folks. IMHO, all's that needs to be done is a way for a newbie to get a mentor, I have done this in the past for several people, and after I get them rolling on there way I point them off into the great masses of hackers and questions when they start to ask things that make since to be asked, or when I don't have an answer for them. We don't need a bazzilion lists, and a fancy match maker system, we just need a list of mentors (growing by the second from the sounds of things) and a place for a newbie to ask to get paired up! >From the mail volume alone this idea has created almost has me wanting to drop off the lists, could we stop engineering this to death until Gary puts what he has in him mind togeather and we see how it flies. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:22:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07160 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:22:41 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07147 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:22:37 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <106>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:36:15 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Sean Kelly , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <199504260457.VAA01204@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > If you can get into AutoSCSI with JP4 and JP5 installed, then leave > it set that way. This is the factory default, and what I have found > to be the most common working setup for the card. Unless things have changed very recently, I don't think this is still the case. My 946C was shipped directly from Buslogic last week, and has both JP4 and JP5 removed and it specifed in the manual that this is the factory setting. The manual also goes on to say that you may need to change these jumpers for "non-compliant" motherboards only, but gives no intruction on how to identify a "non-compliant" motherboard! Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:29:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07354 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:29:04 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07334 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:28:49 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <139>; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:42:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Sean Kelly cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: <9504260401.AA12862@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Samplonius writes: > > Tom> I E800 mentioned at the bottom of the main AutoSCSI screen > Tom> near the bottom. I also see it when I choose "Select > Tom> Adapter". My card may be newer.... I also have option on > Tom> *not* using a ISA IO port at all! > > Must be! I have firmware rev 4.22 and BIOS rev 4.86. You? bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs Appears to be firmware 4.25J.... don't know about the BIOS version until I get a chance to fiddle with it tommorrow. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 22:46:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08904 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:46:39 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08890 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:46:30 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01328; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:43:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504260543.WAA01328@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Apr 25, 95 10:34:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1996 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > If you can get into AutoSCSI with JP4 and JP5 installed, then leave > > it set that way. This is the factory default, and what I have found > > to be the most common working setup for the card. > > Unless things have changed very recently, I don't think this is still > the case. My 946C was shipped directly from Buslogic last week, and has both > JP4 and JP5 removed and it specifed in the manual that this is the factory > setting. The manual also goes on to say that you may need to change > these jumpers for "non-compliant" motherboards only, but gives no > intruction on how to identify a "non-compliant" motherboard! Looks as if Bus Logic has chaned the default settings from the factory, either way both manuals state you might have to change them for non-compliant motherboards. A truely fully compliant PCI motherboard and card should work with the jumpers in ANY possition! By your own admission it fails on your card if you change them, this means someone some place is not compliant! FYI, PCI is about to go to rev 2.1 in May, suppose to fix the ambiguous parts of the spec that are causing all these problem. I don't think it is so much as being ``conformant'' as it is being ``compatibly conformant''. Some people interpretted the spec one way, others another way, boom, the user gets caught in the middle. Both are technically conformant, but not compatible :-(. One thing that bothers me about Bus Logic, is they keep pointing fingers at MB manufactures but yet they have reved the card majorly once (bt946S to bt946c) and are now at rev E of the artwork and what, 4.25J of the firmware and 4.86 of the BIOS. If it is the motherboards fault, how come Bus Logic keeps changing there design, and changes BIOS revs faster than I change my shorts? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 23:37:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA10441 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:37:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA10434 ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:37:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: SimsS@infi.net, jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newbie mentoring In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 95 09:56:43 +1000." <9504252356.AA18738@wcs.uq.edu.au> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:37:15 -0700 Message-ID: <10433.798878235@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. Total newbie -- no prev experience of installing/configuring anything. > > 2. Unix newbie -- experience with DOS/WINDOWS, OS/2, etc but new to Unix. > > 3. Not really a newbie -- has unix experience but maybe not *BSD or perhaps > is just struggling with some hardware/software conflict, etc. Come up with a blank `HINTS:' line and then suggest possible keywords (new, programmer, expert) for it. Preferentially match on these keywords when looking for a mentor. We can extend the granularity of the match as we go on. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 25 23:38:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA10494 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:38:00 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10472 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:37:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA08777; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:35:39 +1000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:35:39 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504260635.QAA08777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> What is ``DOS''? :-> The correct way is to boot a boot disk for the >> OS being tested and erase all traces of the previous OS... ^^^ >I guess that could be done, if you trusted the previous OS to not do >anything to sabatoge performance (for instance, many EIDE drives come >with boot blocks that have built in INT 13 redirectors for geometry I don't trust the previous OS. All traces of it on the disk and in the CMOS must be removed. >> It takes a fairly special benchmark to demonstrate the speed advantages >> of delayed context switches. >I disagree; all it takes is a single process benchmark with a typical >20 or 30 processes running meanwhile that aren't using FPU. You mean one process running meanwhile. If there are 20 then the FPU context will be switched 10 times less often. The FPU context switch overhead is about 10 usec on a 486/33. If each of the 20 processes runs for 100 msec, then the FPU context switch overhead is 10 usec every 2 seconds, i.e., a whole 0.0005%. Multiply by 10*10 for a more reasonable number of runnable processes and a more usual(?) timeslice. Then the overhead is a whole 0.05%. To demonstrate the speed advantages you need a special benchmark that forces a context switch after every few instructions instead of after every 10 msec. >The microtime requirement is a result of the timer interval being >equal to the lbolt interval for mandatory context switch. I've argued >this before. I've refuted this before :-). >> copyinstr() is poorly implemented iin FreeBSD. However, I've never seen >> it showing up in profiling output. >Then you haven't been looking right. Remember the hoo-rah about the >speed of a rename? This is part of the problem there. If we consider I looked again. On a 486DX2/6, copyinstr() takes 4 usec for strings of length 1 and 66 usec for strings of length 255. rename("a", "b") takes about 150 usec for a failing rename. rename("a", "b") takes about 28600 usec for a succeeding rename. (It would of course take only a few hundred usec on a better file system without immediate sync of metadata.) A fast copyinstr() is clearly important for that most important of cases, failing renames of long file names ;-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 00:12:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11134 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:12:09 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11128 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:12:00 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA09681; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:09:28 +1000 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:09:28 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504260709.RAA09681@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, imb@asstdc.scgt.oz.au Subject: Re: async mounts .. bogus ? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I was experimenting with the async mount attribute in an effort to speed up >this machine's handling of news but observed two problems .. >asstdc:~ vmstat -m >Memory statistics by bucket size >Size In Use Free Requests HighWater Couldfree >... > 8K 38 7 162 5 97 <---- where from ??? :-) In FreeBSD-1.x, "Couldfree" meant "missed opportunities to free". It apparently still means this - on my freefall there are now 450792 1K and 861 8K buffers in the "Couldfree" column. I hope freefall doesn't have 450MB of leaked memory. I hope it has 450MB of unleaked memory :-). >Memory usage type by bucket size This has some anomalies too. Lots of buckets have type `temp'. Shouldn't `temp' be only for short-lived allocations? > .. ultimately, I came back into the room to find that it had rebooted >itself in order to dispense with my alteration :-(. >Is "mount -o async" still bogus in 950412-SNAP (which is what I'm running) ? I think "-o osync" is still close to a no-op. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 00:48:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13681 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:48:01 -0700 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13675 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:48:00 -0700 Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id AAA19682; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:47:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:47:19 -0700 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199504260747.AAA19682@netcom14.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: cdrom & mpeg? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Anyone knows if the latest toshiba cdrom or any other scsi cdrom can read video mpeg CDs? I have Black Rain over here and I want to be able to read the stream into a file . Right know my toshiba XM-3401TA 0283 spits my mpeg cd ... Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 00:54:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13899 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:54:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13893 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:54:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: cmu_snmp Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: <13892.798882882@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Has anyone ported any SNMP software to FreeBSD 2.x yet? I'm having real ``fun'' trying to get CMU SNMP to work 'cos of the large scale differences between 4.3 BSD and 4.4 BSD (and some probably braindead code in CMU SNMP anyhow!) Anyone interested in porting some code? Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 01:13:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA14449 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:13:13 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA14441 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:13:07 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA12898 ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:12:28 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA15295 ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:12:27 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504260812.KAA15295@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: MX record problem To: dunn@ferrum.edu (James E. Dunn) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:12:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504251600.MAA04363@panther.ferrum.edu> from "James E. Dunn" at Apr 25, 95 12:00:19 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1101 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ---CUT HERE--- > From daemon Tue Apr 25 11:55:05 1995 > Received: from localhost (localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9)... > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error > Message-Id: <199504251555.LAA04252@panther.ferrum.edu> > To: postmaster > Status: OR > > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > dunn@ferrum.edu (unrecoverable error) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 554 MX list for ferrum.edu. points back to panther.ferrum.edu > 554 dunn@ferrum.edu... Local configuration error > ---CUT HERE--- Do you have ferrum.edu in the 'w' class in either sendmail.cw or in sendmail.cf ? In the .cf file, you'll see a line "Cw localhost". Add ferrum.edu on this line, kill and run sendmail again. That should fix the problem. It will make panther.ferrum.edu see that mail to ferru.edu is "local" and should be accepted. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 01:47:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15795 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:47:04 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15789 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:47:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA06295; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:46:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: minor update to the sound driver. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:35:42 -0000." <199504251935.TAA04177@star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:46:43 -0700 Message-ID: <6293.798886003@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If the sound driver gets checked in into the main release and people > start complaining about bugs in the driver , well I will save you > the steam and sparks that I am going to generate. So you're saying you DON'T want us to check this into -current? I can live with that, but I'd also like some indication that you and Jim don't have any problems with the -current code, as it's otherwise exactly what's going to go into 2.0.5! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 02:02:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:02:04 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16535 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:01:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA06390; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:00:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Network Coordinator cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , John Booth , Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 1995 00:16:02 EDT." Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:00:05 -0700 Message-ID: <6383.798886805@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am not clear whether you want unix to run under MajorBBS or the > otherway around. The IS a unix version of MajorBBS that supports BSDI, I Uhhhhh. Clearly the other way around. I don't expect that MajorBBS's Virtual Machine interface is nearly that advanced.. :-) I am trying to find someone who has made the BSDI version work under FreeBSD and has some feedback about it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 02:19:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA17489 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:19:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17482 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:19:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA06598; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:18:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Samplonius cc: Sean Kelly , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:41:01 PDT." Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:18:28 -0700 Message-ID: <6596.798887908@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 > bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > > Appears to be firmware 4.25J.... don't know about the BIOS version > until I get a chance to fiddle with it tommorrow. FWIW, I have 6 Bt946 controllers lying about the place. 5 of them are 4.21, the last revisions I got from Buslogic. The 6th is a very recently purchased one with 4.25J. Not only does it not work, but an attached Quantum Empire 2100 will even spin down when the controller probes it! It doesn't do this with any of the other 2-3 I've tested. Very odd. Anyway, it's going back to the store. It could be a failure of this one board and it could be a failure of the whole lineage. Shit happens. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 02:40:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA17844 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:40:31 -0700 Received: from uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de (uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de [131.220.8.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17812 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:39:54 -0700 Received: from oink.rhein.de (oink.rhein.de [193.175.27.130]) by uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de (8.6.10-ws5/8.6.10-ws2) with ESMTP id LAA01389; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:38:17 +0200 Received: (from noses@localhost) by oink.rhein.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA02409; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:36:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199504252036.WAA02409@oink.rhein.de> Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway To: jbeukema@HK.Super.Net (John Beukema) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:36:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Apr 25, 95 05:54:01 pm From: noses@oink.rhein.de (Noses) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 233 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I need to find or make a Netware MHS to Internet gateway. Can anyone > point me in the right direction? One is called UnixWare... 8-))) And Connect2 is offering one too (take a look at risc.ua.edu or one of its mirrors). Achim From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 02:53:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA18183 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:53:38 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA18172 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:53:34 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:53:29 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20205; Wed, 26 Apr 95 19:53:17 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504260953.AA20205@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:53:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260516.WAA01243@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 25, 95 10:16:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3080 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > And the list for the mentor to ask this on already exists, and is full > of excelent tallent. It is this list, hackers!! We are going way way I have no problem with this. A mentor who gets stuck, puts his newbie on hold and asks for assistance or pointers to the answer on hackers. > over board on pie in the sky stuff folks. No we're not!! You can blame it on me but we're just a *little* bit overboard, only :->. The thread will die down shortly and I'll have enough feedback to try and work out the least disruptive, most efficient way to go. By all means let those who have ideas or can contribute to automating the mentor/newbie thing send me e-mail and we'll continue in private and try to keep the hackers list informed with *occasional* progress reports. > IMHO, all's that needs to be done is a way for a newbie to get a mentor, Yes, an automated way, if possible. > I have done this in the past for several people, and after I get them > rolling on there way I point them off into the great masses of hackers Developers read hackers and questions and it's my impression that people like yourself (*and* many others) would benefit if the trivial questions could be kept out of these lists. > and questions when they start to ask things that make since to be asked, > or when I don't have an answer for them. > > We don't need a bazzilion lists, and a fancy match maker system, we I've read everything that has gone by on hackers since this started and I don't think anyone is really asking for this. There has been over enthusiasm (and I'm probably the most guilty of that) but common sense will prevail. At this stage Jonathan Bresler is working on a majordomo based system and I'll do whatever I can to help him. Others are welcome to contribute if they wish. I've got a couple of `announcement' type messages finished and I'll be putting more together as things progress. > just need a list of mentors (growing by the second from the sounds > of things) and a place for a newbie to ask to get paired up! Approximately 20+ individuals at the moment and every one acknowledged. I'll keep chasing up new recruits whilst the programming is going on. When this gets off the ground (and I'm determined that it will) it'll be people like Jonathan who do the automation who deserve the thanks, together with those who volunteer to be mentors. > >From the mail volume alone this idea has created almost has me wanting > to drop off the lists, could we stop engineering this to death until I really am sorry about that as my intention is to cut traffic and *not* unnecessarily create it. > Gary puts what he has in him mind togeather and we see how it flies. People can help by *not* cc'ing to hackers if you send me comments, etc, unless you feel that it is really important. I'll try and make a single summary posting every so often to keep hackers informed. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 05:55:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA22875 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 05:55:07 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA22869 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 05:55:04 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id IAA27580; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:53:44 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504261253.IAA27580@hda.com> Subject: Policy list To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260516.WAA01243@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 25, 95 10:16:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1241 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > From the mail volume alone this idea has created almost has me wanting > to drop off the lists, could we stop engineering this to death until > Gary puts what he has in him mind togeather and we see how it flies. This recent deluge of policy issues has made me wish for a new list, "policy". I try to read -hacker in moderately real time in case a fellow -hacker is in trouble. The discussion of digesting the lists is disconcerting. I bet 80% of this list is not "Technical discussions and suggestions". I've been guilty of this in the past, and am being guilty of it right now. Yes, I thread the articles and skip the ones I don't want, but I'm afraid I might miss something that got sent with the wrong subject. If we had a policy list for non-hacker related stuff, then I could read it at my leisure or unsubscribe (which I probably wouldn't do but some people might). It is hard enough to try to keep up with -hackers, -current, and -commit, which is the minimum for trying to technically help out and develop at the edge. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 06:12:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA23624 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:12:02 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA23615 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:12:00 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA22959; Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:11:30 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA17464; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:11:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:11:53 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504261311.AA17464@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA118561912; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:11:52 -0600 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260457.VAA01204@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Buslogic? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney W Grimes writes: Rodney> This is for Sean to get him working... Say, thanks! Rodney> Try -c and set the I/O address to 334, the stock kernel Rodney> uses the defaults of 330: Rodney> gndrsh# grep bt0 GENERIC Rodney> controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr Had it set that way for some time, actually: rose 205 > grep bt0 /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/ROSE controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT1" bio irq ? vector btintr rose 206 > grep IO_BT1 /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/isa.h #define IO_BT1 0x334 /* bustek 742a default addr. */ I've been running the controller with no problems; my admittedly minor complaint was the probe: I know it's a PCI device, but FreeBSD says otherwise: bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=15 bt0: version 4.22, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme bt0 at 0x334 irq 15 on isa ^^^ But since it works, I can live with it. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA Proof by foreward refrence: Refrence is usually to a forthcoming paper of the author, which is often not as forthcoming as at first. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 06:19:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA23859 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:19:38 -0700 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23851 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:19:37 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA25898; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:19:24 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA05936; Wed, 26 Apr 95 08:19:33 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9504261319.AA05936@olympus> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: gary@wcs.uq.oz.au (Gary Roberts) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:19:32 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504260338.AA19329@wcs.uq.edu.au> from "Gary Roberts" at Apr 26, 95 01:38:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2059 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Paul Richards writes: > > > We could have a re-queue list so if a mentor gets asigned a problem they > > can't handle they can bounce it re-queue and it'll get unassigned from > > them and re-assigned to a new mentor. > > If we already have a relationship established, we want to preserve it > if possible. The mentor has that newbie's past history which is then lost > if the newbie is too easily bounced on to a new mentor. Wouldn't it be > better for the mentor to ask (say on the mentors list) and see if anyone > can give him a quick pointer to the answer. That way the newbie retains > his one to one relationship, *and* his confidence in his mentor. Maybe > a mentor could bounce the very *first* request he gets from a particular > newbie if he feels (for example) that this newbie is already more > advanced than he is. > > Cheers, > -- > Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) > 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. > My belief is that the newbie is better served and the mentor is more interested in mentoring if the setups are similar. I cannot test my ideas on certain hardware before trying to illuminate the client and jerking him around on a chain isn't going to give him a warm fuzzy. It is my intention that the newbie get passed on the first request. If we get a hardware list from the newbie and share one among ourselves, we can reroute the newbie coreectly on the first try and the guy trying to get his GUS MAX to work can talk to a guy that has one. This makes us look better. It will make them feel better. I'm not concerned about not knowing the answer. I am concerned about being able to work on questions I have the facilities to research and test. It doesn't have to be a perfect match, just a fair one. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@isd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 06:34:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA24282 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:34:06 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA24268 ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:33:41 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA02711; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:33:57 +0800 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:33:55 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: core@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: E-mail/phone support for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <10693.798781478@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > They would do for a start. I think you miscalculate the percentage of > user base that actually calls for tech support. I probably am then. My experience has been with administration and technical support in an academic/research environment, and at a 6000-user ISP in Toronto. The latter employs several support staff, two or three of whom are on the phones all day. This includes "sales" as well as real, live tech support. A comfortable ratio in that situation would be 1000 users to 1 phone operator. I figured FreeBSD might generate a similar response. > Linux is huge, and we > only get between 30 and 40 calls a day.. One person full-time can > easily handle that and we're nowhere near as big as Linux. This goes > double if they also put some time into implementing better mail ^^^^ > robots, an answers-by-FAX system, a more usable WWW based FAQ, etc. They? You mean Walnut Creek or the Linux people? One thing I really like about Linux is the massive amount of documentation available for it. Matt Welsh is doing a magnificent job coordinating that effort. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 06:35:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA24334 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:16 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA24327 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:12 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA01917; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:32:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504261332.GAA01917@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Buslogic? To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504261311.AA17464@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 26, 95 09:11:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1781 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >>>>> "Rodney" == Rodney W Grimes writes: > > Rodney> This is for Sean to get him working... > > Say, thanks! > > Rodney> Try -c and set the I/O address to 334, the stock kernel > Rodney> uses the defaults of 330: > Rodney> gndrsh# grep bt0 GENERIC > Rodney> controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr > > Had it set that way for some time, actually: > > rose 205 > grep bt0 /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/ROSE > controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT1" bio irq ? vector btintr > rose 206 > grep IO_BT1 /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/isa.h > #define IO_BT1 0x334 /* bustek 742a default addr. */ > > I've been running the controller with no problems; my admittedly minor > complaint was the probe: I know it's a PCI device, but FreeBSD says > otherwise: > > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=15 > bt0: version 4.22, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > bt0 at 0x334 irq 15 on isa > ^^^ > > But since it works, I can live with it. I tried to fix this once, the problem is the BT946 (or at least my vintage(s) of the PROM's report a PCI vendor code of 0xFFFF if the BIOS jumpers (JP4/JP5) are set to anything other than ``System BIOS''. If we can't get a valid vendor ID from the card, we can't do a PCI probe on it :-(. I have seen, and heard of machines that will work with the board jumpered in ``System BIOS'' mode, and a valid vendor ID is reported, but I don't have one of those MB here any more :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 06:55:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA24933 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:55:13 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA24927 ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:55:10 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id IAA10921; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:55:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:55:04 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504261355.IAA10921@plains.nodak.edu> To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cmu_snmp Content-Length: 568 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone ported any SNMP software to FreeBSD 2.x yet? I'm having real > ``fun'' trying to get CMU SNMP to work 'cos of the large scale > differences between 4.3 BSD and 4.4 BSD (and some probably braindead > code in CMU SNMP anyhow!) I have the CMU 2.1.2 ported and is located at: ftp://joy.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu/pub/plains/cmu-snmp2.1.2.tar.gz There is a SNMP v 1 in that same subdirectory that runs on FreeBSD 1.x and because a professor here wants to upgrade his OS, I was thinking of making the three changes require to compile that on FreeBSD 2.x. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 07:10:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA25335 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:10:51 -0700 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA25325 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:10:45 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id JAA12796; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:10:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:10:37 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199504261410.JAA12796@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: hasty@star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: minor update to the sound driver. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > I can live with that, but I'd also like some indication that you and > Jim don't have any problems with the -current code, as it's otherwise > exactly what's going to go into 2.0.5! > I think the code is at least as good as what is in -current. I have only been able to test it with pas-16, gus, and gus-max cards. I don't have a sb card here. If you are going to check it into -current, please note that I changed the LINT/config options a bit (see the sound/freebsd directory). I also included a postscript file in the distribution (ultrawrd.ps) which is the gus sdk rev 2.22. The gus stuff (especially the gus max stuff) could still use a bit of work. If there is anyone with a gus-max card and some time, let me know. I can point you toward the things that need to be done. Also, vmix is really a pre-alpha type release. It needs a lot of work yet. If someone out there has a sb card and would like to work with the mbone tools, let me know. Vmix could easily be modified to input from the sb card and output to the speaker via the pcaudio driver. If you have trouble getting to ftp.best.com, I put a copy of this stuff on our ftp site. Check ftp://ftp.cs.uwm.edu/pub/FreeBSD for details. -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 08:08:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13307 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:08:06 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA13295 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:08:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01717; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:00:09 GMT Message-Id: <199504260800.IAA01717@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: Jim Lowe cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: minor update to the sound driver. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:10:37 EST." <199504261410.JAA12796@miller.cs.uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:00:07 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Jim Lowe said: > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > > I can live with that, but I'd also like some indication that you and > > Jim don't have any problems with the -current code, as it's otherwise > > exactly what's going to go into 2.0.5! > > > > I also included a postscript file in the distribution (ultrawrd.ps) > which is the gus sdk rev 2.22. The gus stuff (especially the gus max stuff) > could still use a bit of work. If there is anyone with a gus-max card > If you have trouble getting to ftp.best.com, I put a copy of this stuff > on our ftp site. Check ftp://ftp.cs.uwm.edu/pub/FreeBSD for details. > > -Jim > Well, I tested the sound driver with my gus and GUS MAX at least from the standpoint of the gus max and the gus the snd v30 code is better than the stuff that is on current. I personally, recompiled all the apps on -current/ports/audio and tested them with my gusses and snd v30. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 08:22:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13800 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:22:25 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA13792 ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:22:21 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA25180; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:22:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:22:10 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504261522.KAA25180@plains.nodak.edu> To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cmu_snmp Content-Length: 120 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I ported the CMU SNMP v 1 to FreeBSD 2.x and is located with 2.1.2 at ftp://joy.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu/pub/plains/ --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 10:14:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA17212 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:14:37 -0700 Received: from p5.spnet.com (spnet.com [204.156.130.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA17205 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:14:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p5.spnet.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA11041; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:13:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199504261713.KAA11041@p5.spnet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: p5.spnet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: elh@p5.spnet.com Subject: /usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:13:55 -0700 From: Ed Hudson Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk howdy. i'd like to suggest a symbolic link for 2.1 /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail thanks for considering it... -elh From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:24:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA20760 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:24:10 -0700 Received: from titan.elcom.ivano-frankivsk.ua ([193.124.63.254]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA20618 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:23:07 -0700 Received: from elcomua.UUCP (root@localhost) by titan.elcom.ivano-frankivsk.ua (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id VAA05043 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:10:37 +0300 Received: from ktts.kharkov.ua by harrier.elcom.ivano-frankivsk.ua with SMTP id AA21485 (5.65c8/harrier.elcom.ivano-frankivsk.ua/1.0) for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:19:24 +0300 Received: from sapphire.gu.kiev.ua by ktts.kharkov.ua with smtp id m0s4AJp-000CnQa; Wed, 26 Apr 95 19:52 EET DST Received: from freefall.cdrom.com ([192.216.222.4]) by sapphire.gu.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA08666 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:33:18 +0300 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA17489 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:19:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17482 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:19:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA06598; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:18:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Samplonius Cc: Sean Kelly , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Buslogic? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:41:01 PDT." Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:18:28 -0700 Message-Id: <6596.798887908@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus > bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 > bt0: version 4.25J, async only, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs > > Appears to be firmware 4.25J.... don't know about the BIOS version > until I get a chance to fiddle with it tommorrow. FWIW, I have 6 Bt946 controllers lying about the place. 5 of them are 4.21, the last revisions I got from Buslogic. The 6th is a very recently purchased one with 4.25J. Not only does it not work, but an attached Quantum Empire 2100 will even spin down when the controller probes it! It doesn't do this with any of the other 2-3 I've tested. Very odd. Anyway, it's going back to the store. It could be a failure of this one board and it could be a failure of the whole lineage. Shit happens. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:56:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21461 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:56:14 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21451 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:56:06 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43042>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:55:09 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00507; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:23:32 +0200 Message-Id: <199504260923.LAA00507@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: joeg@truenorth.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quantum disk drive In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 23:13:21 +0200." <199504252113.QAA22182@flowbee.interaccess.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:23:32 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Re. > Some kind soul gave me an old Quantum 105s disk drive. I assume its > a SCSI drive. My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing. > Any ideas or am I SOL? CT mag 12/1990 P 323 says: 105Meg formatted, scsi Modu,lat=2,7 cyls=1219 hds 4 avg access 17 xfr rate 2.0 rpm 3662 buf 64K 3.5" (u know that :-) 1" height 6 watt 60,000 mtbf manuf >+ 1990 45dBA > My question is how to set the SCSI ID on this thing No idea, sorry Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:57:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21530 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:16 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21516 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:02 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43045>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:55:40 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00448; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:00:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199504260900.LAA00448@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:43:01 +0200." <9504250743.AA16410@wcs.uq.edu.au> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:00:18 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Thanks Rod, you are now a *foundation* member of the FreeBSD Mentors' Club. > There are *obviously* going to be special *privileges* for those who join > up quickly :-> ;->. I'll take one newbie. While doing this manually, you could have a comment column in the volunteers list. My entry for volunteer list could read: EMAIL :COUNT :PHONE :HOURS & TIMEZONES :NEWBIE :ADMIN COMMENT :NEWBIE COMMENT jhs@freebsd.org : 1 : +49.89.268616 : 10.00-11.30,14.00-18.00,GMT+1 \ :prefer newbie with domain *.de \ :write in English so i can relay difficult queries to world. COUNT would be a decremental count of newbie `places' available. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:57:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21515 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:02 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21476 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:56:29 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43047>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:55:44 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00398; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:30:29 +0200 Message-Id: <199504260830.KAA00398@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 06:44:10 +0200." <12851.798785050@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:30:29 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > newbie% mail new-users@freebsd.org Won't happen quite like that ! This will happen: random-login-name-on-some-other-machine-or-same-machine-with-other-os% \ mail new-users@freebsd.org ..... I'm working from scribbled paper notes from a FreeBSD session ... The newbie% prompt makes the massive assumption the release is so marvelous it has an auto configure for ppp slip or uucp, & gets sendmail.cf localised etc, all just done with the skills of a newbie.. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:57:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21569 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:57 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21542 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:30 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43048>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:56:17 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00332; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:02:09 +0200 Message-Id: <199504260802.KAA00332@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Roberts cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:58:35 +0200." <9504242358.AA15172@wcs.uq.edu.au> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:02:08 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Re. > If every `lurker' agreed to > `adopt a newbie' and hold his/her hand until he/she got running, that > should immediately reduce newbie traffic in both news and mail by > transferring the traffic from the public lists to private e-mail. > Apart from a few scripts, I have no programming skills. > I would really like to ease the burden on > those who are `at the coal face' Good idea - would you like to prototype it as shell scripts ? once it works, the scripts could be transferred to a FreeBSD Internet machine, where the lists could be maintained by your scripts, with people updating it in a similar fashion to majordomo@freebsd.org. If your idea works well enough, then someone else may later recode the shell to C, (as happened with CVS I believe). You might want to look at majordomo sources (but I don't have them, & don't know if in C or sh or csh etc), try `archie majordomo` maybe ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 11:59:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21631 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:59:25 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21619 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:59:19 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43058>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:57:59 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA09220; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:19:59 +0200 Message-Id: <199504252319.BAA09220@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: ponds!rivers@dg-rtp.dg.com (Thomas David Rivers), julian@ref.tfs.com, ponds!rivers@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interesting SCSI cdrom problem.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:37:58 +0200." <199504241237.HAA02410@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:19:59 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If there is a guaranteed unique ID you can get from the CDROM, I asked WC about unique IDs a while back, it seemed then that the CD industry had not yet adopted a convention like the book industry's unique ID of an ISBN (though I believe China doesnt allways use ISBN, neither does my HP PCL Ref.) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:00:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA21670 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:00:13 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21663 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:00:09 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA18411; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:35:35 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:35:35 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504261735.LAA18411@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Ed Hudson "/usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail" (Apr 26, 10:13am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i'd like to suggest a symbolic link for 2.1 > > /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail Why? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:01:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA21769 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:01:12 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA21570 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:57:57 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43054>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:56:18 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA09265; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:31:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199504252331.BAA09265@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Minutes of the Thursday, April 13th core team meeting in Berkeley. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:54:02 +0200." <21302.798764042@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:31:19 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Most people don't realize that there are still many hundreds (exact > sales figures can't be disclosed) of FreeBSD 2.0R CDs going out each > week, and each 2.0R CD goes out is another customer who's going to be > fighting bugs we've already fixed. These interim releases are as > important to us in reducing -questions load as they are to WC, who > gets to answer all the tech support calls for FreeBSD (as I think many > people here are forgetting!). Even compuserve now offer 3 hours internet per month in the basic charge, so if anyone feels strongly they could put together an upgrade lifeboat package, make it ftp'able & ftpmail'able, & announce it periodically on the newsgroups, (& WC could put a sticky label on the CD's with terse details) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:01:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA21789 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:01:44 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA21674 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:00:19 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43056>; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:57:40 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA09149; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:07:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199504252307.BAA09149@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Richards cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 1995 03:00:04 +0200." <199504240100.CAA02825@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 01:07:42 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If we (readers of hackers@freebsd.org) should finally decide in favour of one way gating our `general' mail lists to the newsgroups (with a header as as or similar to Julian Elischer's suggested one) ... Then before we go ahead, I hope proponents of this idea won't forget to ask permission of the poor blighters on the news group, whether they would object to us dumping a load of our stuff on their group, that they can't so easily reply to ;-) Personally I'd prefer we didn't start one way gating, as I'm afraid the hordes the other side might join our lists & bloat out :-) Julian Stacey From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:13:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22094 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:13:08 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22088 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:13:05 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06362; Wed, 26 Apr 95 14:11:52 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504261911.AA06362@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: /usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail To: elh@p5.spnet.com (Ed Hudson) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, elh@p5.spnet.com In-Reply-To: <199504261713.KAA11041@p5.spnet.com> from "Ed Hudson" at Apr 26, 95 10:13:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 541 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > howdy. > > i'd like to suggest a symbolic link for 2.1 > > /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail > > thanks for considering it... This breaks too many things that try to determine where your Sendmail is. Better to go through a minor amount of pain and put it in the right place. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:14:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22203 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:14:39 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA22191 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:14:36 -0700 Received: from CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw (CCCA.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.5.150]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id MAA03366 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:04:48 -0700 Received: (from jdli@localhost) by CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA06439 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 02:59:13 +0800 From: ¾K¥Í¹Ú¦º µL¨¥¥H¹ï Message-Id: <199504261859.CAA06439@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw> Subject: benchmark hell.. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 02:59:13 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4537 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi : I did this test on the two machines... Linux 1.2.5 : P90, 2940, AIR54CEP, 16MB RAM, 1G SCSI (slower than next HD) FreeBSD 0412-SNAP : P90, 2940, AIR54CEP, 32MB RAM, 1G SCSI Only RAMs and HDs are different... Though the HD on linux is 1/3 speed of the one on FreeBSD base on iozone test, but I found that Linux's disk-io is faster and more "quiet" than freebsd ... When un-tar the gcc-2.6.3, linux use almost the same time as freebsd, and when delete the tree, linux is 3 times faster than freebsd... (the HD on linux is 1/3 speed of the one on FreeBSD base on iozone !!) I guess maybe Linux will allocate as much memory as it can to be buffer. Especially when the memory is more than 32mb or 64mb, linux will be much more faster than freebsd on the same machine... Anyway, I still love FreeBSD and hope it will be really fast someday !! :-) ==== Linux test ==== Linux > sync Linux > free total used free shared buffers Mem: 14864 14608 256 5156 848 -/+ buffers: 13760 1104 Swap: 33772 1892 31880 Linux > vmstat procs memory swap io system cpu r b w swpd free buff si so bi bo in cs us sy id 0 0 0 1964 260 848 0 0 6 12 126 311 11 10 79 Linux > ./iozone 4 Writing the 4 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...4.440000 seconds Reading the file...2.230000 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 944663 bytes/second for writing the file 1880853 bytes/second for reading the file Linux > vmstat procs memory swap io system cpu r b w swpd free buff si so bi bo in cs us sy id 0 0 0 1964 260 860 0 0 7 12 126 311 11 10 79 Linux > free total used free shared buffers Mem: 14864 14608 256 5116 860 -/+ buffers: 13748 1116 Swap: 33772 1964 31808 Linux > time tar xfz gcc-2.6.3.tar.gz 11.740u 10.630s 1:06.79 33.4% 0+0k 0+0io 81pf+0w Linux > sync Linux > vmstat procs memory swap io system cpu r b w swpd free buff si so bi bo in cs us sy id 0 0 0 2016 428 780 0 0 9 17 126 316 12 10 78 Linux > free total used free shared buffers Mem: 14864 14448 416 4960 788 -/+ buffers: 13660 1204 Swap: 33772 2016 31756 Linux > time /bin/rm -rf gcc-2.6.3 0.020u 0.660s 0:09.76 6.9% 0+0k 0+0io 25pf+0w Linux > free total used free shared buffers Mem: 14864 14460 404 4964 800 -/+ buffers: 13660 1204 Swap: 33772 2016 31756 Linux > vmstat procs memory swap io system cpu r b w swpd free buff si so bi bo in cs us sy id 1 0 0 2016 404 800 0 0 9 17 126 317 12 10 78 ==== FreeBSD ==== FreeBSD > sync FreeBSD > vmstat procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 f1 s0 in sy cs us sy id 1 0 04073236 2592 14 0 0 0 12 42 0 0 2 250 1300 72 4 4 91 FreeBSD > ./iozone 4 Writing the 4 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...1.335938 seconds Reading the file...0.421875 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 3139595 bytes/second for writing the file 9942053 bytes/second for reading the file FreeBSD > vmstat procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 f1 s0 in sy cs us sy id 0 0 04064160 5788 14 0 0 0 12 42 0 0 2 250 1300 72 4 4 91 FreeBSD > time tar xfz gcc-2.6.3.tar.gz 11.626u 9.109s 1:05.82 31.4% 172+543k 155+4015io 0pf+0w FreeBSD > sync FreeBSD > vmstat procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 f1 s0 in sy cs us sy id 0 0 04075528 1760 14 0 0 0 12 42 0 0 2 250 1300 72 4 4 91 FreeBSD > time /bin/rm -rf gcc-2.6.3 0.016u 0.907s 0:27.86 3.2% 151+304k 119+1836io 0pf+0w FreeBSD > sync FreeBSD > vmstat procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr f0 f1 s0 in sy cs us sy id 1 0 04088480 5180 14 0 0 0 12 42 0 0 2 250 1299 72 4 4 91 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:14:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22201 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:14:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22189 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:14:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08067; Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:07:45 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504261907.AA08067@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:07:44 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com In-Reply-To: <199504260635.QAA08777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 26, 95 04:35:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You mean one process running meanwhile. If there are 20 then the FPU > context will be switched 10 times less often. The FPU context switch > overhead is about 10 usec on a 486/33. If each of the 20 processes runs > for 100 msec, then the FPU context switch overhead is 10 usec every 2 > seconds, i.e., a whole 0.0005%. Multiply by 10*10 for a more reasonable > number of runnable processes and a more usual(?) timeslice. Then the > overhead is a whole 0.05%. To demonstrate the speed advantages you > need a special benchmark that forces a context switch after every > few instructions instead of after every 10 msec. This assumes full quantum use before switch; this is actually quite atypical, and a context switch is much more likely the result of a voluntary switch coming from an attempt at a blocking operation. 8-). > >The microtime requirement is a result of the timer interval being > >equal to the lbolt interval for mandatory context switch. I've argued > >this before. > > I've refuted this before :-). Yet that microtime() is still there. 8-(. > >> copyinstr() is poorly implemented iin FreeBSD. However, I've never seen > >> it showing up in profiling output. > > >Then you haven't been looking right. Remember the hoo-rah about the > >speed of a rename? This is part of the problem there. If we consider > > I looked again. On a 486DX2/6, copyinstr() takes 4 usec for strings > of length 1 and 66 usec for strings of length 255. rename("a", "b") > takes about 150 usec for a failing rename. rename("a", "b") takes > about 28600 usec for a succeeding rename. (It would of course take > only a few hundred usec on a better file system without immediate > sync of metadata.) A fast copyinstr() is clearly important for that > most important of cases, failing renames of long file names ;-). The total duration of a file system related system call that isn't a read or write on UnixWare is 20uS. FreeBSD ought to be able to compete. At 4uS, this is 20% of the overhead. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:16:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:16:37 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22285 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:16:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08086; Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:09:56 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504261909.AA08086@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: async mounts .. bogus ? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 13:09:55 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, imb@asstdc.scgt.oz.au In-Reply-To: <199504260709.RAA09681@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 26, 95 05:09:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Is "mount -o async" still bogus in 950412-SNAP (which is what I'm running) ? > > I think "-o osync" is still close to a no-op. It is, at least from the code I've been staring at (not running mind you, just staring at). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 12:46:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA23709 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:46:26 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA23700 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:46:08 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA27987 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:34:07 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA15227; 24 Apr 95 17:41:37 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA15224; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:41:37 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504242241.RAA15224@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:41:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504241733.AA14857@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 24, 95 11:33:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 543 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's time to change it for ps, who, rwho, rwhod, w, last, finger, and > the accounting reporting programs. Pardon? bonkers% who root ttyv0 Apr 13 08:19 peter ttyv1 Apr 13 08:20 ... ^^^^^^^ bonkers% last taronga tty05 Mon Apr 24 13:26 - 13:27 (00:01) taronga tty05 Mon Apr 24 09:52 - 09:54 (00:01) ftp ftp localhost Mon Apr 24 03:28 - 03:28 (00:00) ... ^^^^^^^^ > Sorry, but I don't believe this list to be exhaustive. Neither is it authoritative... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 13:19:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA24487 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:19:32 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA24480 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 13:19:28 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08377; Wed, 26 Apr 95 14:12:10 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504262012.AA08377@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: More devfs stuff To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 14:12:10 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504242241.RAA15224@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 24, 95 05:41:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's time to change it for ps, who, rwho, rwhod, w, last, finger, and > > the accounting reporting programs. > > Pardon? > > peter ttyv1 Apr 13 08:20 > ... ^^^^^^^ > ftp ftp localhost Mon Apr 24 03:28 - 03:28 (00:00) > ... ^^^^^^^^ > > > Sorry, but I don't believe this list to be exhaustive. > > Neither is it authoritative... Assuming we were talking about 2 character limits rather than n character limits in reporting, that would be true. Any limit could become prohibitive if care weren't taken in deciding naming. That was my point with some of the utilities that hav limits that don't happen to be two characters. You'll rememebr in the prior message I referred to 3 digit pty numbers instead of 2 digits. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 15:33:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA29451 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:33:28 -0700 Received: from databank.com (bsinger@databank.com [198.3.149.253]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29436 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:33:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by databank.com (8.6.5/1.37) id RAA16685; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:39:53 -0500 From: bsinger@databank.com (Smooch) Message-Id: <199504262239.RAA16685@databank.com > Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:39:52 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199504260900.LAA00448@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 26, 95 11:00:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 926 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What about something a little simpler: * Newbie sends mail to {newbie,help}@freebsd.org, * which is distributed to a mailing list newbie-q@freebsd.org, * which is read by someone who knows something about the topic, who replies. * Reply-To points back to help mechanism, * which sends the reply to the newbie, * saving it with the help message to keep track of where the problems are and to add to the FAQ. * Newbie also gets a message explaining the mentor system * and is attached to the mentor, * and newbie-q is sent an automatic "This person taken care of" message. After getting a response, Newbie should write directly to the mentor, and not help@freebsd. Someone (or newbie-q again) gets a message if a help message hasn't been replied to in reasonable time, and newbie-q can also be used for mentors-above-their-heads. I think this would get replies to users faster, and by the right person. Ben From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 15:42:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA29698 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:42:52 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29692 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:42:48 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id QAA19249; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:47:01 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:47:01 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504262247.QAA19249@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: bsinger@databank.com (Smooch) "Re: The Mentors' Club" (Apr 26, 5:39pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: bsinger@databank.com (Smooch), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * Newbie sends mail to {newbie,help}@freebsd.org, > * which is distributed to a mailing list newbie-q@freebsd.org, > * which is read by someone who knows something about the topic, who replies. Unfortunately, this is how it's supposed to work now, but w/out any accountability it doesn't work since folks assume that another person is going to answer the question. And, once one person starts answering questions then the group assumes those questions will always be answered by that person since said person is considered an expert. By doing the one-one talked about here, we get more experts and the end-user gets better service, if sometimes a bit slower. Nate > After getting a response, Newbie should write directly to the mentor, > and not help@freebsd. Unfortunately this is something that can't be enforced. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 15:55:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA00172 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:55:07 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA00159 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 15:54:58 -0700 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:54:31 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21404; Thu, 27 Apr 95 08:54:22 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9504262254.AA21404@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:54:21 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <9504261319.AA05936@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Apr 26, 95 08:19:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2408 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Boyd Faulkner writes: > My belief is that the newbie is better served and the mentor is more > interested in mentoring if the setups are similar. I cannot test my > ideas on certain hardware before trying to illuminate the client and > jerking him around on a chain isn't going to give him a warm fuzzy. > > It is my intention that the newbie get passed on the first request. > If we get a hardware list from the newbie and share one among ourselves, > we can reroute the newbie coreectly on the first try and the guy trying > to get his GUS MAX to work can talk to a guy that has one. This makes > us look better. It will make them feel better. I'm not concerned about > not knowing the answer. I am concerned about being able to work on > questions I have the facilities to research and test. It doesn't have > to be a perfect match, just a fair one. Thanks for the further comments. I hear what you are saying and it makes a *lot* of sense. Initially, to get started without a huge delay, we may not be able to match newbies and mentors too well on any particular criterion. Matching on hardware would be great and so would matching on software interests, type of net access, amount of experience, etc, etc. I think this thing will develop, perhaps from a simple model like Rod is imploring us to adopt, and rough matching on hardware should be high on the list of features to be added. Initially, I suspect we may have to use the approach of a mentor `passing the buck' at the first contact if he feels that the newbies problem is beyond his scope of expertise or interests. In that regard it will be important for me to design the instructions that are sent to the newbie so that he fully describes his system when he first asks for help. Your idea of a register of `mentor setups' to share among ourselves is a good one. Could I impose on you to design an appropriate `fill-in' type questionaire that I could send to all mentors and get them to record their set-ups and interests? I could continue to send that form by e-mail to each new mentor as part of the acknowledgement. The sum of all such responses could be kept somewhere for mentors to download if they needed. Your feedback is very useful, and appreciated. Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 16:29:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA00963 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:29:10 -0700 Received: from veda.is (root@veda.is [193.4.230.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00942 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:28:56 -0700 Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA28230; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:25:29 GMT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 23:25:29 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199504262325.XAA28230@veda.is> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of system X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It might interest some to hear that an implementation of httpd has been written to run under dgd. One clear advantage to using dgd for this purpose is that if the application is made suitably modular, changes can be made to it while running (in order to test and add new features, for instance). I am looking into doing ports/net/dgd-httpd in the near future. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 16:41:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01281 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:41:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01273 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:41:01 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA13778; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:40:48 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504262340.QAA13778@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: jdli@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw (¾K¥Í¹Ú¦º µL¨¥¥H¹ï) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504261859.CAA06439@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw> from "¾K¥Í¹Ú¦º µL¨¥¥H¹ï" at Apr 27, 95 02:59:13 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2750 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > hi : > > I did this test on the two machines... > > Linux 1.2.5 : > P90, 2940, AIR54CEP, 16MB RAM, 1G SCSI (slower than next HD) > > FreeBSD 0412-SNAP : > P90, 2940, AIR54CEP, 32MB RAM, 1G SCSI > > Only RAMs and HDs are different... > > Though the HD on linux is 1/3 speed of the one on FreeBSD base on iozone test, > but I found that Linux's disk-io is faster and more "quiet" than freebsd ... for SCSI devices UFS performance can be inproved and 'made more quiet" by disklabelling the drive as though it has only 1 head and 4096 sectors per track... (phk has checked this.....) this is because on modern drives the UFS code it TOO SMART and tries to take into account the "non-existant" geometry and actually ends up slowing down and rattling hte heads a lot. > > When un-tar the gcc-2.6.3, linux use almost the same time as freebsd, > and when delete the tree, linux is 3 times faster than freebsd... > (the HD on linux is 1/3 speed of the one on FreeBSD base on iozone !!) > > I guess maybe Linux will allocate as much memory as it can to be buffer. so will FreeBSD now.. > > Especially when the memory is more than 32mb or 64mb, linux will be much > more faster than freebsd on the same machine... nope, not for that reason.. modern SNAPs will do the same.... > > Anyway, I still love FreeBSD and hope it will be really fast someday !! > :-) > > ==== Linux test ==== > > Linux > free > total used free shared buffers > Mem: 14864 14608 256 5156 848 > -/+ buffers: 13760 1104 > Swap: 33772 1892 31880 We could do with this sort of thing :) > Linux > ./iozone 4 > Writing the 4 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...4.440000 seconds > Reading the file...2.230000 seconds > IOZONE performance measurements: > 944663 bytes/second for writing the file > 1880853 bytes/second for reading the file > FreeBSD > ./iozone 4 > Writing the 4 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...1.335938 seconds > Reading the file...0.421875 seconds > IOZONE performance measurements: > 3139595 bytes/second for writing the file > 9942053 bytes/second for reading the file FreeBSD read and wrote it a lot faster.... but 4MB is a test of cache code only.. > > Linux > time tar xfz gcc-2.6.3.tar.gz > 11.740u 10.630s 1:06.79 33.4% 0+0k 0+0io 81pf+0w > > FreeBSD > time tar xfz gcc-2.6.3.tar.gz > 11.626u 9.109s 1:05.82 31.4% 172+543k 155+4015io 0pf+0w > > > Linux > time /bin/rm -rf gcc-2.6.3 > 0.020u 0.660s 0:09.76 6.9% 0+0k 0+0io 25pf+0w > > FreeBSD > time /bin/rm -rf gcc-2.6.3 > 0.016u 0.907s 0:27.86 3.2% 151+304k 119+1836io 0pf+0w I believe this may be becuse of teh synchronous metadata updates needed for deleting > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 16:45:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01466 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:45:46 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01457 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:45:40 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA16167; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:40:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:40:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: /usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail To: Nate Williams cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504261735.LAA18411@trout.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > > i'd like to suggest a symbolic link for 2.1 > > > > /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail > > Why? majordomo expects /usr/lib/sendmail other software as well?? > > > Nate > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 16:54:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01753 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:54:00 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01746 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:53:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02868; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:50:04 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504262350.QAA02868@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: /usr/lib/sendmail vs /usr/sbin/sendmail To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, elh@p5.spnet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 26, 95 07:40:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 704 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > i'd like to suggest a symbolic link for 2.1 > > > > > > /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail > > > > Why? > > majordomo expects /usr/lib/sendmail Then majordomo is broken, it should not *expect* the location of anything. It should be told or configurabe as to where the location is. We have been running majordomo on Freefall for 3 years, this is not a significant reason to hack a link into /usr/lib. > other software as well?? Then the other software needs some work too. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 16:55:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01813 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:55:52 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01791 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:55:34 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA11266 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:56:30 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18435; 25 Apr 95 17:55:14 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA18430; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:55:13 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504252255.RAA18430@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: HP Laserjet 2p To: Julian.H.Stacey@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:55:12 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504221138.NAA07819@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 22, 95 01:38:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1280 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > - We are not discussing a `networked laser' as far as I know. I realise that. I thought I'd qualified my comment sufficiently... the real problem I was getting at is not the exact one addressed, but rather that if you specify a remote printer the BSD spooler will not run any filters you put in the printcap entry. This means if you *are* using a networked laser there is no place to put that "ESC & k 2 G" string unless you do a hack with two print queues, the first of which runs a filter that resubmits to the second queue pointing to the remote system. Several companies are now selling laser printers or printer servers that are not significantly programmable but can be simply connected to the network and speak the BSD printer protocol. If you have one of these that's pretty much what you have to do. It turns out that for the HP version of this they set up two remote printer names, "raw" and "text", with the "text" printer effectively doing "ESC & k 2 G" for you. > I feel one of us is missing the point (& I'm not sure who), > perhaps we're talking at cross purposes ? My purpose is to let people who might be setting up an HP printer with a recent jetdirect card and talking to it from a BSD box know that you don't need to go through this rigamarole any more. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 17:43:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03490 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:43:45 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03482 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:43:26 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA13953 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:02:34 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA23394; 25 Apr 95 21:18:28 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA23390; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:18:27 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504260218.VAA23390@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway To: nc@ain.charm.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 21:18:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: JOHN@gab.unt.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Apr 25, 95 09:05:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 195 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, check out the FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 page (for the dinosaurs) at http://bonkers.neosoft.com/freebsd/ I just need someone with a faster internet link tell me what I need to grab from ports-1.1... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 17:45:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03552 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:45:31 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03543 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:45:26 -0700 Received: from newcom.kiae.su by sequent.kiae.su with SMTP id AA11256 (5.65.kiae-2 for ); Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:33:53 +0400 Received: by newcom.kiae.su id AA10980 (5.65.kiae-1 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:25:20 +0400 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:25:20 +0400 Message-Id: <199504270025.AA10980@newcom.kiae.su> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: ncurses 1.9.0 released From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah X-Class: Fast X-Newsreader: NN v6.4.18 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Path: kiae!relcom!KremlSun!news.spb.su!news.eunet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail >From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) >Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce >Subject: ncurses 1.9.0 released >Followup-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps >Date: 22 Apr 1995 18:07:36 +0300 >Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) >Lines: 132 >Sender: wirzeniu@cc.helsinki.fi >Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Lars Wirzenius) >Message-ID: <3nb63o$13a@myntti.helsinki.fi> >NNTP-Posting-Host: myntti.helsinki.fi >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Keywords: ncurses, terminals, video, user interface, full screen =============================================================================== ANNOUNCING NCURSES 1.9 =============================================================================== The ncurses library is a freeware emulation of System V Release 4.0 curses. It uses terminfo format, supports color and multiple highlights and forms characters, and function-key mapping, and has all the other SYSV-curses enhancements over BSD curses. The ncurses code was developed under Linux. It is highly portable, and runs on all of the following platforms: 386BSD, SunOS, HP-UX, Ultrix, NeXTSTEP 3.0, System V Release 4, BSDI BSD/OS, Apollo, AIX 3.2.5, Solaris 2.3, NeXTSTEP 3.2. It should port easily to any ANSI/POSIX-conforming UNIX. The distribution includes the library and support utilities, including a terminfo compiler tic(1), a decompiler infocmp(1), clear(1), tput(1), and a termcap conversion tool captoinfo(1). Full manual pages are provided for the library and tools. The ncurses distribution is available at: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/zm/zmbenhal/ncurses FEATURES OF NCURSES * All 257 of the SVr4 calls have been implemented (and are documented). * Full support for SVr4 curses features including keyboard mapping, color, forms-drawing with ACS characters, and automatic recognition of keypad and function keys. * The API is 8-bit clean and base-level conformant with the X/OPEN curses specification, XSI Curses (that is, it implements all BASE level features, but not all EXTENDED features). Most EXTENDED-level features not directly concerned with wide-character support are implemented, including many function calls not supported under SVr4 curses (but portability of all calls is documented so you can use the SVr4 subset only). * Better cursor-movement optimization. The package now features a cursor-local-movement computation more efficient than either BSD's or System V's. * Super hardware scrolling support. The screen-update code incorporates a novel, simple, and cheap algorithm that enables it to make optimal use of hardware scrolling, line-insertion, and line-deletion for screen-line movements. This algorithm is more powerful than the BSD curses quickch() routine. * (PC-clone boxes only) Support for access to the IBM PC ROM characters through a new highlight, A_PCCHARSET. Also, ncurses will now automatically load a nice set of forms characters when running on PC-compatible consoles with no acsc capability specified. * Automatic fallback to the /etc/termcap file can be compiled in for systems withould a terminfo tree. This feature is neither fast nor cheap, you don't want to use it unless you have to, but it's there. * An HTML "Introduction to Programming with NCURSES" document. STATE OF THE PACKAGE Numerous bugs present in earlier versions through 1.8.7 have been fixed; the library is far more reliable than it used to be. Bounds checking in many `dangerous' entry points has been improved. The code is now type-safe according to gcc -Wall. The library has been checked for malloc leaks and arena corruption by the Purify memory-allocation tester. The ncurses code has been tested with a wide variety of games and utilities, including: lynx-2.3.7 -- the character-screen WWW browser bs-2.0 -- Battleships game with proper visual interface greed-3.1 -- the game of Greed nolan-1.1 -- the World's Smallest Political Quiz vh-1.6 -- Volks-Hypertext browser for the Jargon File blue -- Blue Moon solitare game u386mon -- System performance monitor for SVr4 nvi -- New vi alpha version 1.1.34 The ncurses distribution includes a selection of test programs. WHO'S WHO AND WHAT'S WHAT The primary maintainer of ncurses is Zeyd ben-Halim . Unfortunately, he can only work on the package part time. As a result, since 1.8.1, much of the enhancement work and all the documentation has been done by Eric S. Raymond . However, requests for beta updates and other queries should properly be directed to Zeyd. There is an ncurses mailing list. It is a listserv list; to join, write to listserv@netcom.com with a message containing the line subscribe ncurses-list @ This list is open to anyone interested in helping with the development and testing of this package. WHITHER BSD CURSES? Keith Bostic, the maintainer of BSD curses, has undertaken that if ncurses proves stable and usable with nvi, he will switch to ncurses for the nvi (new vi) distribution and pronounce BSD curses officially dead. It is therefore probable that the next re-packaging of 4.4BSD curses will, in fact, use ncurses. BSDI has said that they will cut over to ncurses if and when Keith gives the word. Where BSDI goes, freeBSD and netBSD are likely to follow. RELATED RESOURCES This distribution now includes (and uses) a copy of the master terminfo database maintained by Eric Raymond. This database (which is the official descendant of the 4.4BSD termcap file) changes faster than this code does, so you probably want to pick up new copies occasionally. You can surf to a WWW page that carries the current terminfo master file, and news about ncurses, at http://www.ccil.org/~esr/ncurses.html =============================================================================== -- --- Zeyd M. Ben-Halim zmbenhal@netcom.com NCURSES is available from ftp.netcom.com:pub/zm/zmbenhal/ncurses Current version is 1.8.6 -- Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember Keywords: and a short description of the software. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 17:47:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03621 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:47:16 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03615 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:47:15 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA06687 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:44:24 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id JAA25886; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:45:36 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id JAA17250; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:45:04 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA24041; Thu, 27 Apr 95 09:45:04 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0s4Hov-0008JxC; Thu, 27 Apr 95 09:52 JST Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 09:40:56 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504270040.AA08099@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cdrom & mpeg? References: <199504260747.AAA19682@netcom14.netcom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Anyone knows if the latest toshiba cdrom or any other scsi cdrom can >read video mpeg CDs? As far as I know, Video CD records MPEG data on "MODE2 FORM2"-typed sectors. It has a different sector layout than Yellow book CD-ROM (MODE1) or CD-ROM XA (MODE2 FORM1). Particularly, it has more than 2K bytes in a sector (approx. 2300 bytes, I'm not sure.) I belive most of modern CD-ROM drives are capable of Video CD-type sectors, but you need a device driver which can handle it. You also need a compatible filesystem, if you want to access an MPEG stream as a file. Are the functions already integrated into FreeBSD drivers/filesystem? I have not looked into sources... >Right know my toshiba XM-3401TA 0283 >spits my mpeg cd ... Ah, I have heard a rumor that Toshiba CD-ROM drive requires some proprietary commands be sent from the SCSI initiator to switch between different sector types. If it is true, the driver must also be aware of Toshiba specific commands... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:10:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04284 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:10:43 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04278 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:10:42 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA14075; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:09:09 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504270109.SAA14075@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: cdrom & mpeg? To: seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (Masahiro SEKIGUCHI) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hasty@netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504270040.AA08099@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> from "Masahiro SEKIGUCHI" at Apr 27, 95 09:40:56 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 681 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ah if this is all true, then I know what to do.... > > > As far as I know, Video CD records MPEG data on "MODE2 FORM2"-typed > sectors. It has a different sector layout than Yellow book CD-ROM > (MODE1) or CD-ROM XA (MODE2 FORM1). Particularly, it has more than 2K > bytes in a sector (approx. 2300 bytes, I'm not sure.) > > I belive most of modern CD-ROM drives are capable of Video CD-type > sectors, but you need a device driver which can handle it. You also > need a compatible filesystem, if you want to access an MPEG stream as > a file. > > Are the functions already integrated into FreeBSD drivers/filesystem? > I have not looked into sources... no (not YET) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:13:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04343 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:13:17 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04329 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:13:10 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id VAA29127; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:13:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: kim culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: -current build problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With -current last sup'd about 1600 GMT 4-26, we see this fatal error trying to 'make world' : cc -O2 -o cut cut.o ===> usr.bin/devmenu cc -O2 -I/sys -c /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/devmenu.c In file included from /usr/include/machine/devconf.h:73, from /sys/sys/devconf.h:37, from /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/devmenu.c:49: /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: `struct buf' declared inside parameter list /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: which is probably not what you want. cc -O2 -I/sys -c /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/devfilter.c In file included from /usr/include/machine/devconf.h:73, from /sys/sys/devconf.h:37, from /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/devfilter.c:35: /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: `struct buf' declared inside parameter list /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: which is probably not what you want. cc -O2 -I/sys -c /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/ifmenu.c In file included from /usr/include/machine/devconf.h:73, from /sys/sys/devconf.h:37, from /usr/src/usr.bin/devmenu/ifmenu.c:37: /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: `struct buf' declared inside parameter list /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: its scope is only this definition or declarat ion, /sys/scsi/scsiconf.h:189: warning: which is probably not what you want. cc -O2 -I/sys -o devmenu devmenu.o devfilter.o ifmenu.o -ldialog -lncurses -lmytinfo devmenu.o: Undefined symbol `_err_set_exit' referenced from text segment devmenu.o: Undefined symbol `_err_set_file' referenced from text segment devmenu.o: Undefined symbol `_err_set_file' referenced from text segment devmenu.o: Undefined symbol `_err_set_exit' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Any help here is greatly appreciated.. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:16:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04635 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:16:54 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04566 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:16:12 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA17621 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:50 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA04153; 26 Apr 95 06:35:05 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA04150; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:04 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504261135.GAA04150@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway To: nc@ain.charm.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:04 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, JOHN@gab.unt.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Apr 26, 95 00:16:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 52 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How about mbox/ix or another native-UNIX-based BBS? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:19:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04721 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:19:08 -0700 Received: from ebrps.engr.subr.edu (mdiez@[192.207.173.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04715 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:19:06 -0700 Received: by ebrps.engr.subr.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13719; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:16:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:16:12 -0500 From: mdiez@ebrps.engr.subr.edu (Matthew Diez) Message-Id: <9504270116.AA13719@ebrps.engr.subr.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: SLIP Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I've gotten SL/IP to sort of work under FreeBSD 2.0... BUT, I can telnet to my remote host, but nowhere else "no route to host" messages... I'm not too knowledgable about either SL/IP or FreeBSD, BUT if anyone knows what should be done about this, the please tell From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:27:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04952 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:27:32 -0700 Received: from mprgate.mpr.ca (mprgate.mpr.ca [134.87.131.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04946 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:27:30 -0700 Received: from nucleus.mpr.ca by mprgate.mpr.ca with SMTP id AA18963 (5.67b+/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:26:58 -0700 Received: by nucleus.mpr.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18659; Wed, 26 Apr 95 18:26:49 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander MacAulay To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Question about software update protocol (SUP) In-Reply-To: <199504270017.RAA02581@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where sources for SUP can be found? I understand that the original CMU sources have been modified for FreeBSD to support file compression etc. I may be incorrect on this -- perhaps that is just CTM. Anyway, could someone point me in the right direction (I already have the binaries but I need the source). As an aside, what is the prognosis for ftp.FreeBSD.COM; it doesn't allow anonymous ftp anymore -- some sort of a hardware problem? thanks for any help! Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:42:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA05385 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:42:29 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA05379 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:42:27 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA14294; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:42:19 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504270142.SAA14294@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SLIP To: mdiez@ebrps.engr.subr.edu (Matthew Diez) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504270116.AA13719@ebrps.engr.subr.edu> from "Matthew Diez" at Apr 26, 95 08:16:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2197 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, I've gotten SL/IP to sort of work under FreeBSD 2.0... > BUT, I can telnet to my remote host, but nowhere else > "no route to host" messages... > I'm not too knowledgable about either SL/IP or FreeBSD, BUT if anyone > knows what should be done about this, the please tell > Here's a siple set of scripts I use to connet to a cisco terminal server fro slip.. (notice I have to give 2 passwds one to log in and one to get slip) This is a subdirectory of /etc. # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # slip # slip/slip # slip/slipinfo # slip/tfsdial.chat # echo c - slip mkdir slip > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - slip/slip sed 's/^X//' >slip/slip << 'END-of-slip/slip' X#!/bin/sh Xset -x Xps ax |grep slattach |grep -v grep Xpid=`ps ax |grep slattach |grep -v grep|awk '{print $1;}'` Xif [ "X${pid}" != "X" ] ; then X echo 'killing slattach, PID=' ${pid} X kill ${pid} Xfi X X. /etc/slip/slipinfo X Xchown root /dev/$DEVICE Xchmod 666 /dev/$DEVICE X X X( X stty $SLIPSPEED -tostop >/dev/null X X if chat -v -f /etc/slip/tfsdial.chat X then X slattach -s $SLIPSPEED -c -h /dev/$DEVICE X ifconfig sl0 $OUR_IP_ADDR $REMOTE_IP_ADDR netmask $SLIP_NETMASK up X route add default $REMOTE_IP_ADDR X sleep 1 X ping -c 3 $REMOTE_IP_ADDR X ntpdate mailhub X exit 0 X else X echo "slip call failed" 1>&2 X exit 1 X fi X) < /dev/$DEVICE > /dev/$DEVICE X END-of-slip/slip echo x - slip/slipinfo sed 's/^X//' >slip/slipinfo << 'END-of-slip/slipinfo' X X#!/bin/sh X XLOCKDIR=/var/spool/uucp XDEVICE=cua01 XPHONE=1234567 XSLIP_NETMASK=255.255.255.0 XSLIPSPEED=19200 XOUR_IP_ADDR=140.145.15.212 XREMOTE_IP_ADDR=140.145.15.11 END-of-slip/slipinfo echo x - slip/tfsdial.chat sed 's/^X//' >slip/tfsdial.chat << 'END-of-slip/tfsdial.chat' XABORT "NO CARRIER" XABORT BUSY XABORT "NO DIALTONE" X"" ATZ XOK ATDT1234567 XCONNECT "" Xsername: XXXXX Xssword: YYYYYYYYY X'spear>' slip Xhostname: QQQ.QQQ.QQQ.QQQ Xssword: ZZZZZZZZZ Xompress "\c" END-of-slip/tfsdial.chat exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 18:52:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA05638 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:52:04 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA05631 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:52:02 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11207; Wed, 26 Apr 95 19:44:41 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504270144.AA11207@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: cdrom & mpeg? To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 19:44:40 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260747.AAA19682@netcom14.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at Apr 26, 95 00:47:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone knows if the latest toshiba cdrom or any other scsi cdrom can > read video mpeg CDs? I have Black Rain over here and I want to be > able to read the stream into a file . Right know my toshiba XM-3401TA 0283 > spits my mpeg cd ... There was recent posting on this list by a driver developer who had a driver for an mpeg board. I believe he was working on this. I can dig up the reference eventually if you can't look in the hacker's list archives. I believe the subject had to do with him wanting a device major number for his driver. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 19:24:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA07189 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:24:06 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA07179 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:23:37 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA23990 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:03:58 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA16243; 26 Apr 95 16:02:51 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA16240; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:02:51 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504262102.QAA16240@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: The Mentors' Club (was Re: Gating hackers ... ) To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504260900.LAA00448@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 26, 95 11:00:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 307 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've already got 60 newbies I mentor professionally. Some of them have been newbies for years. (anyone who's had to support large numbers of application programmers will understand) But, hey, I can handle one or two more. Send me a newbie. Watch me confuse the hell out of them with my 1.1.5.1 advice. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 20:04:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09962 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:04:14 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09956 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:04:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA12645 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:03:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: PLEASE - NO MORE MENTOR/NEWBIE MESSAGES! Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:03:53 -0700 Message-ID: <12643.798951833@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A number of people have complained to me that this topic has gotten out of control, and as much as I *really like* this whole topic, I'm afraid that I'm inclined to agree. Please send everything you have on this topic to Gary and count on him to cc or redist it to any other (and only those) interested parties. He's keeping a list of them anyway, so there's no immediate need for another majordomo list to handle the short-term needs of this design and input process. Please stop flooding -hackers! You're only bringing about what the entire discussion was meant to prevent - the email overload of the core team! :-( Any more and we'll be forced to leave this list. There is simple too much else that needs doing by us right now! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 21:19:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA14915 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:19:25 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14889 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:18:59 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA10221; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:14:46 +1000 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:14:46 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504270414.OAA10221@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> overhead is about 10 usec on a 486/33. If each of the 20 processes runs >> for 100 msec, then the FPU context switch overhead is 10 usec every 2 >> seconds, i.e., a whole 0.0005%. Multiply by 10*10 for a more reasonable >> number of runnable processes and a more usual(?) timeslice. Then the >> overhead is a whole 0.05%. To demonstrate the speed advantages you >> need a special benchmark that forces a context switch after every >> few instructions instead of after every 10 msec. >This assumes full quantum use before switch; this is actually quite >atypical, and a context switch is much more likely the result of a >voluntary switch coming from an attempt at a blocking operation. 8-). I divided the full quantum by 10 in order to overestimate the speed advantage. FPU-using programs are more likely than most to use their full quantum, so the overestimate is probably large. >> >The microtime requirement is a result of the timer interval being >> >equal to the lbolt interval for mandatory context switch. I've argued >> >this before. >> >> I've refuted this before :-). >Yet that microtime() is still there. 8-(. It is necessary for accurate timing of processes that switch context voluntarily because the switch may occur at any time. For forced context switches (which as you say above are fairly rare, so not worth optimizing for :-), it may be possible to use the known time of the context switch as a timestamp. This would be less accurate because of interrupt latency. >> I looked again. On a 486DX2/6, copyinstr() takes 4 usec for strings >> of length 1 and 66 usec for strings of length 255. rename("a", "b") >> ... >The total duration of a file system related system call that isn't a >read or write on UnixWare is 20uS. FreeBSD ought to be able to compete. >At 4uS, this is 20% of the overhead. FreeBSD doesn't compete now. It takes 10uS for getpid() and 110uS for a successful stat("z", &sb) in a loop. The kernel parts of the time are approximately: stat: getpid: _Xsyscall 3 1uS _syscall 8 3uS _stat 2 _getpid 2uS _doreti 3 1uS ___qdivrem 11 _lookup 10 _malloc 8 _syscall 8 _ufs_getattr 8 _copyout 8 _ufs_access 8 _ufs_lock 3 (called twice per stat()) _namei 6 _ufs_lookup 6 _cache_lookup 6 _ufs_unlock 3 (called twice per stat()) _free 6 _vn_stat 5 _copyinstr 4 _copyin 4 ___udivdi3 3 _vrele 2 (called twice per stat()) _bcmp 3 _vget 3 _vput 1 There's lots of bloat to trim. I would start with ufs_lock() and ufs_unlock() because they are significant in tty i/o, then look at the quad division functions. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 21:42:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA16003 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:42:52 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA15996 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:42:51 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11702; Wed, 26 Apr 95 22:35:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504270435.AA11702@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 95 22:35:58 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com In-Reply-To: <199504270414.OAA10221@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 27, 95 02:14:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD doesn't compete now. It takes 10uS for getpid() and 110uS for > a successful stat("z", &sb) in a loop. The kernel parts of the time > are approximately: What are the same numbers for an fstat? One would expect it to drop out only the lookup itself. I think the malloc and free are suspicious, and should probably be stack allocation instead. That's 14uS (or 12%) right there. The divides are *extremely* curious. They could be alignement in malloc, though I would expect an AND to be used instead of a div. That's 12% right there. I think maybe half of syscall could go away with a revamp of the trampoline code. The nami is painful, as is the cache lookup; one would epect ufs_lookup to be much smaller in the case of a cache hit, and in a loop, one would expect a cache hit. I'm going to call that 5uS, and that's without cache optimization (someone *really* needs to look at either the SVR4 DNLC from "The Magic Garden Explained" or the Linux two level cache code (look at the ext2FS usage, not the umsdos or cdfs usage). I understand the copyout (but it's a bit large), but I don't undrestand the copyin seperate from the copyinstr. I think the ufs_getattr comes from the buffer fudging that is used for NFS export but serves no real useful purpose here; I rememebr complaining about the semantic change at the time it was made for just this reason. I don't understand the double lock, unless it was for the directory lookup then the stat of the object itself. If this is the case (I'll have to get more interested to look than I am right now 8-)), then it seems that the stat/fstat division has been made in the wrong place and that the lock should be held at a different level. This would let fstat lock the open vnode while stat locks only the directory vnode around the file stat, since that would guarantee against reentrancy. That should be another 6 (~5%). Call it 34% without the buffer fudging, or ~37uS. And that's just block optimization. 8-). > There's lots of bloat to trim. I would start with ufs_lock() and > ufs_unlock() because they are significant in tty i/o, then look at > the quad division functions. Yeah... although I wouldn't expect a big impact on ttyio except from the lookup unles you are talking specfs. I'd also like to see what percentage of the time is in I/O wait vs. actually doing work; it could be a bum hold that's doing it in. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 22:03:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA16931 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:03:02 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA16925 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:03:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00539; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:55:09 GMT Message-Id: <199504262155.VAA00539@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cdrom & mpeg? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:44:40 MDT." <9504270144.AA11207@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:55:07 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > I believe the subject had to do with him wanting a device major number > for his driver. > Well, that was probably Brian Litzinger and his mpeg driver for OmniMedia's mpeg driver 8) While I am here anyone out there has an mpeg-1 system stream file with video and audio ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 22:10:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA17176 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:10:09 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17168 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:10:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00458; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:09:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ncurses 1.9.0 released In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:25:20 +0400." <199504270025.AA10980@newcom.kiae.su> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:09:24 -0700 Message-ID: <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, when do we simply transition over ourselvse? :-) I've been thinking for awhile that having two curses libraries is somewhat bogus. Given that ncurses now has a `fallback mode' for /etc/termcap, I don't see that we have much left to wait for. As soon as 1.9.0 makes it into the tree, I'll try some experiements with replacing curses entirely with it and see how it works. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 22:16:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA17363 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:16:08 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA17357 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:16:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00477; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:14:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: nc@ain.charm.net (Network Coordinator), jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, JOHN@gab.unt.edu, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MHS <-> SMHP gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 1995 06:35:04 CDT." <199504261135.GAA04150@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:14:10 -0700 Message-ID: <475.798959650@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about mbox/ix or another native-UNIX-based BBS? I've heard mbox/ix is sub-capable at best. Anyone care to prove me wrong? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 26 22:58:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA19301 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:58:28 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA19258 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:58:13 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA13004; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:53:51 +1000 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:53:51 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504270553.PAA13004@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: benchmark hell.. Cc: geli.com!rcarter@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, toor@jsdinc.root.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >What are the same numbers for an fstat? One would expect it to drop out >only the lookup itself. 32uS instead of 110: __qdivrem 9 _ufs_getattr 5 _copyout 5 _syscall 5 _copyin 3 _vn_stat 2 _Xsyscall 1 ___udivdi3 1 _doreti 1 _fstat 1 >I think the malloc and free are suspicious, and should probably be >stack allocation instead. That's 14uS (or 12%) right there. The buffers have size MAXPATHLEN and are allocated in namei(). I'm not sure how many can be active at once. More than a couple would not fit on the stack. BTW, namei() is not even internally consistent in its use of the malloc macros. It always uses MALLOC(), but it uses both Free() and free(). >The divides are *extremely* curious. They could be alignement in malloc, >though I would expect an AND to be used instead of a div. That's 12% >right there. I think they are for `sb->st_blocks = vap->va_bytes / S_BLKSIZE;' in vn_stat(). If so, they are poorly implemented. vap->va_bytes is a quad_t, but it is usually smaller than 2G, not to mention smaller than 2G * S_BLKSIZE, and S_BLKSIZE is small, not to mention a power of 2 (512), so the natural i386 (quad_t, long) -> long division operator usually applies, so the division should be little slower than an ordinary divsion. gcc doesn't optimize the division into shifts even if the dividend is uquad_t. >I understand the copyout (but it's a bit large), but I don't >undrestand the copyin seperate from the copyinstr. It is for copying syscall args off the user stack. >I think the ufs_getattr comes from the buffer fudging that is used >for NFS export but serves no real useful purpose here; I rememebr >complaining about the semantic change at the time it was made for >just this reason. It is necessary to convert ufs attibutes to stat attributes. >I don't understand the double lock, unless it was for the directory >lookup then the stat of the object itself. If this is the case (I'll Half are in lookup() and half are in vget(). I don't understand vget(). >> There's lots of bloat to trim. I would start with ufs_lock() and >> ufs_unlock() because they are significant in tty i/o, then look at >> the quad division functions. >Yeah... although I wouldn't expect a big impact on ttyio except from >the lookup unles you are talking specfs. Parts of ttyio are highly optimized. This makes the unoptimized parts more obvious. My benchmark for it uses select() and MIN=255 (the max), so most reads return only a little more than 255 bytes, which is too small for efficiency, and select() gets exercised too much too. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 02:05:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA00242 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 02:05:22 -0700 Received: from dearnpc.gmd.de (dearnpc.gmd.de [192.76.247.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA00235 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 02:05:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199504270905.CAA00235@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from vm.gmd.de by dearnpc.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 2C9DEF2F ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:04:47 +0200 Received: from VM.GMD.DE by vm.gmd.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7246; Thu, 27 Apr 95 10:59:08 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2782; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:59:08 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6833; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:00:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 10:56:53 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: Re: xntpd patches for dcf77 To: michael butler cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Butler writes: > The other observation is that I can't say ... "addserver 127.127.1.15" to > xntpdc which usually allows xntpd to use the local clock as a reference when > my PPP link gets saturated to the point of disturbing the measurements > beyond the dispersion limits. It complains of "refclock_newpeer: clock type > 1 invalid", yet LOCAL_CLOCK is defined :-( My patches should fix this problem also. I just tried to add this line server 127.127.1.15 to /etc/ntp.conf and it works. Vincenzo Ciao, Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 04:21:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA07934 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:21:39 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA07919 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 04:21:25 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA15799 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:10:26 +0400 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 27 Apr 95 15:10:25 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA00522; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:53:11 +0400 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:09:24 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:53:10 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: ncurses 1.9.0 released Lines: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 943 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >So, when do we simply transition over ourselvse? :-) >I've been thinking for awhile that having two curses libraries is >somewhat bogus. Given that ncurses now has a `fallback mode' for >/etc/termcap, I don't see that we have much left to wait for. As soon >as 1.9.0 makes it into the tree, I'll try some experiements with >replacing curses entirely with it and see how it works. 1) I plan to integrate 1.9.0 in nearest time, is it good to do it before release? 2) When BSD curses author says that he drops his work to trashcan, it is the reason to switch to another curses. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 06:17:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA12880 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 06:17:34 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA12874 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 06:17:32 -0700 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA14822; Thu, 27 Apr 95 06:14:36 -0700 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0s4TLZ-0005OqC; Thu, 27 Apr 95 15:11 MSZ Message-Id: To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Poul-Henning Kamp of Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:51:58 MST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Testers please! Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:11:09 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The file > > ftp://freefall.cdrom.com/incoming/fixit_kernel > > Contains the latest wonder, a complete fixit_floppy in one kernel. > > Please try and boot it, and tell me what you think. I think it's slicker than sh*t through a goose ! And I don't find the slight delay in starting apps. at all objectional. The only thing I miss is tar, or can the cpio also handle tar files ? Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 06:44:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14280 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 06:44:09 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA14257 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 06:43:48 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA07548; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:41:38 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504271341.OAA07548@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: ncurses 1.9.0 released To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:41:38 +0100 (BST) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 26, 95 10:09:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 370 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > So, when do we simply transition over ourselvse? :-) > I'd say when Keith does. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 07:10:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA15533 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:10:16 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA15504 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:09:29 -0700 Received: from rheuma.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@rheuma.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.91]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id QAA02181; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:08:47 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by rheuma.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id QAA03181; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:08:40 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:08:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199504271408.QAA03181@rheuma.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Gating hackers into the newsgroups In-Reply-To: <199504251944.VAA06820@jette.heep.sax.de> References: <9504250531.AA16107@wcs.uq.edu.au> <199504251944.VAA06820@jette.heep.sax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes: >I could help out with Perl hacking. Though i'll be off for vacation >RSN, so i'll not be available as early as second week of June. (I >think i'll need the first week to catch up with all the accumulated >mails from a three-week vacation. :-]) > >What's with our favorite Perl script writer? Wolfram, hörst Du den >Ruf auch? :-) Last week I wrote a extension to majordomo for hierarchical mailinglists. This avoid duplicated mails ;-) Example: $ echo 'I am on vacation' | mail -s 'IMPORTANT' freebsd-announce \ current hackers This mail receipt all members from announce, members from hackers who are not in announce, members from current who are not in announce and hackers [hierarchy: 1. announce 2. hackers 3. current]. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 08:27:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA19485 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:27:24 -0700 Received: from super.super.org (super.super.org [192.31.192.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19477 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:27:22 -0700 Received: from gotham.super.org (gotham-e [192.239.79.2]) by super.super.org (8.6.11/8.6.10.1) with ESMTP id LAA20818; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:23:22 -0400 Received: from hume.super.org (hume.super.org [192.239.79.11]) by gotham.super.org (8.6.11/8.6.10.1) with SMTP id LAA12698; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:27:19 -0400 Received: by hume.super.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08877; Thu, 27 Apr 95 11:27:19 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:27:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "William A. Arbaugh" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com Subject: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm cc'ing this to hackers in hope someone will be able to provide some assistance. 1. The problem in the subj line is affecting my system and also . I'm using the NCR 53c810 SCSI, and Tom is using IDE. Both systems were running the 0322 SNAP without problems. 2. I can boot with the 0322 fixit floppy and mount sd0a without a problem. 3. During the install of 0412 newfs produces the following warning message 'Calculated sectors per cylinder 4096 disagrees with disklabel (2046). No other warnings/errors are produced during the install. 4. Booting the 0412 SNAP kernel placed on the disk by the install process with -v prints out the BIOS geometries and then hangs. Looking at the sources for 0322- that tells me that it's getting to cpu_startup() but not much more. The geometries reported are: BIOS Geometries: 0:3ff0208 1:4f010f 2:4f010f 3:4f010f 4:4f010f 5:4f010f 6:4f010f 7:4f010f 0 accounted for Booting the 0322 fixit floppy with -v produces the same geometry information. I haven't a clue if that info is good/bad etc. 5. Anyone have a 0412 based fixit floppy? I'm stuck and I'm not sure how to proceed. bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Arbaugh "Waste of time is the most waarbau@super.org extravagant of all expenses" waa@dsl.cis.upenn.edu -Theophrastus ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 08:35:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA19917 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:35:38 -0700 Received: from galactica.galactica.it (galactica.galactica.it [192.106.152.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19905 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:35:22 -0700 Received: (from davide@localhost) by galactica.galactica.it (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA17640 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:34:33 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:34:33 +0200 From: "Davide Tome'" Message-Id: <199504271534.RAA17640@galactica.galactica.it> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Slip/PPP over TELNET Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ciao, I'd like to know how yto use slip and ppp over teknet ... i whant to use slip or PPP with a user who has login on my UNIX machine Reply to davide@galactica.it Ciao From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 08:48:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA20230 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:48:52 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA20223 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:48:41 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 19:46 GMT+0400 From: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? X-Mailer: GNOS 2.3.6 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm spending the second day trying to setup a dialin. One simple question: should the /usr/libexec/getty be used for that purpose? Where are the modem init strings are located? Any entries I should add into /etc/gettytab? Thank you AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 09:39:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23437 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:39:38 -0700 Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23431 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:39:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA08071; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:39:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199504271639.JAA08071@precipice.shockwave.com> To: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: phk@FreeBSD.org Subject: looking for IP over printer port driver users Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:38:57 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do you currently use the lp driver for connecting two freebsd systems together ala laplink? Do you have it already running? I've rewritten the driver to be a tad less insane but I myself can't use the LPIP protocol that Jolitz designed because I don't have two BSD boxes with parallel ports available. I'm looking for one or two folks who already know about the lp driver and use it often to simply check out my rewrite of the driver to see if I've introduced any timing bugs or other oddities. Once I know the rewritten driver is happy, I'll be adding support for the Crynwr/Linux PLIP protocol format. Thanks, Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 10:11:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24716 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:11:07 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24710 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:11:05 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA13917; Thu, 27 Apr 95 11:04:38 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504271704.AA13917@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Current list offline? To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 11:04:37 MDT Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504271639.JAA08071@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Apr 27, 95 09:38:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got a message cc'ed to hackers and current, but I only got it one time. I noticed this because my mail volume was teeny today. Apparently I'm still getting hackers and questions. Is the reduced mail volume from a list failure, or is it from people actually taking the mento discussion offline or something? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 11:07:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA26832 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:07:27 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA26820 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:07:25 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA01196; Thu, 27 Apr 95 11:03:35 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA17081; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:03:33 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504271803.LAA17081@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Testers please! To: gj@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: phk%ref.tfs.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: from "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" at Apr 27, 95 01:11:09 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 600 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The file > > > > ftp://freefall.cdrom.com/incoming/fixit_kernel > > > > Contains the latest wonder, a complete fixit_floppy in one kernel. > > > > Please try and boot it, and tell me what you think. > > I think it's slicker than sh*t through a goose ! And I don't find the > slight delay in starting apps. at all objectional. > > The only thing I miss is tar, or can the cpio also handle tar files ? Yes it can. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 11:08:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA26980 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:08:58 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA26973 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:08:58 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA17131; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:08:52 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504271808.LAA17131@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: looking for IP over printer port driver users To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504271639.JAA08071@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Apr 27, 95 09:38:57 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 882 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Do you currently use the lp driver for connecting two freebsd systems together > ala laplink? Do you have it already running? I wrote it :-) > I've rewritten the driver to be a tad less insane but I myself can't use the > LPIP protocol that Jolitz designed because I don't have two BSD boxes with > parallel ports available. Jolitz didn't do this, I did. > I'm looking for one or two folks who already know about the lp driver and > use it often to simply check out my rewrite of the driver to see if I've > introduced any timing bugs or other oddities. Sure, send it to me. > Once I know the rewritten driver is happy, I'll be adding support for the > Crynwr/Linux PLIP protocol format. CooL! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 11:52:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA28752 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:52:59 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28741 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:52:52 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA05319; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:51:38 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504271851.OAA05319@hda.com> Subject: mailing list charters To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:51:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 12165 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The freebsd-hackers mailing list has filled with mail to the point that many are considering (and some have) dropped out of the -hackers list. In my opinion, this is unfortunate for FreeBSD. Attached is a modified version of the Mailing List FAQ. It includes charters for all lists (some minimal and needing expansion) and proposes two new mailing lists: -chat and -policy. The charters for the proposed new lists are: > FREEBSD-CHAT Non technical items related to the community > This list contains the overflow from the other lists about > non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about > whether Jordan looks like a tune ferret or not, whether or not to type > in capitals, who is drinking > too much coffee, where the best beer is brewed, and so on. Occasional > announcements of important events (such as upcoming parties, > weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to the technical lists, > but the follow ups should be directed to this -chat list. > FREEBSD-POLICY Policy issues and suggestions > This is a forum for policy discussions related to FreeBSD. This > includes where FreeBSD is going, how to set up a consortium, whether > or not and how to make FreeBSD pay for itself, how to attract more > users, and so on. When a topic relates directly to FreeBSD but has > little or no technical content then it should be sent to this list. I propose that we add the two new lists, that we change the description that majordomo sends about the lists to match the FAQ, and that we gently nudge those who step outside the charter back in line. I shall happily do the gentle nudging for a while. Please review this and send diffs and comments back to me, ESPECIALLY if you know more about the lists that I'm not on and the charter I gave them is stupid, or if you think I'm wrong and everything is dandy the way it is. I shall summarize to the list. .... THE FREEBSD MAILING LIST FAQ $Id: mailing-list.FAQ,v 1.1 1995/03/21 20:19:32 jkh Exp $ -- Though many of the FreeBSD development members read USENET, we cannot always guarantee that we'll get to your questions in a timely fashion (or at all) if you post them only to one of the comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.* groups. By addressing your questions to the appropriate mailing list you will reach both us and a concentrated FreeBSD audience, hopefully assuring a better (or at least faster) response. There are mailing list charters at the bottom of this document. Please read the list charter before joining a list. LIST SUMMARY General lists: The following are general lists that are open to anyone. List Purpose ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- freebsd-announce Important events / milestones freebsd-bugs Bug reports freebsd-chat Non technical items related to the community freebsd-commit Commit messages to source repository freebsd-policy Policy issues and suggestions freebsd-questions User questions freebsd-current Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical lists: The following are the technical lists. You should read the charter carefully before joining them, and you should keep your e-mail within the scope of the guidelines. It is important to strive to keep the signal to noise ratio of the technical lists high. List Purpose ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- freebsd-doc Documentation project freebsd-fs Filesystems freebsd-hackers General Technical discussions freebsd-hardware General discussion of FreeBSD hardware freebsd-platforms Porting to Non-Intel platforms freebsd-ports Discussion of "ports" freebsd-security Security issues freebsd-scsi SCSI subsystem ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Limited lists: The following are limited lists that you will need approval to join. Even though access to these lists is controled, anyone is free to send suggestions and comments to them. It is a good idea establish a presence in the technical lists before asking to join one of these limited lists. List Purpose ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- freebsd-admin Administrative issues freebsd-arch Architecture and design discussions freebsd-core FreeBSD core team freebsd-install Installation development ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- CVS lists: The following lists are for people seeing the log messages for source changes in specific areas: List name Source area Area Description (source for) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- cvs-CVSROOT /usr/src/[A-Z]* Top level /usr/src file changes cvs-all /usr/src All changes to the tree (superset) cvs-bin /usr/src/bin System binaries cvs-etc /usr/src/etc System files cvs-games /usr/src/games Games cvs-gnu /usr/src/gnu GPL'd utilities cvs-include /usr/src/include Include files cvs-kerberosIV /usr/src/kerberosIV Kerberos encryption code cvs-lib /usr/src/lib System libraries cvs-libexec /usr/src/libexec System binaries cvs-ports /usr/ports Ported software cvs-sbin /usr/src/sbin System binaries cvs-share /usr/src/share System shared files cvs-sys /usr/src/sys Kernel cvs-usrbin /usr/src/usr.bin Use binaries cvs-usrsbin /usr/src/usr.sbin System binaries ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE LISTS All mailing lists live on `FreeBSD.ORG', so to post to a list you simply mail to `@FreeBSD.ORG'. It will then be redistributed to mailing list members throughout the world. To subscribe to a list, send mail to: majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG And include the keyword subscribe [] In the body of your message. For example, to subscribe yourself to freebsd-announce, you'd do: % mail majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-announce ^D If you want to subscribe yourself under a different name, or submit a subscription request for a local mailing list (note: this is more efficient if you have several interested parties at one site, and highly appreciated by us!), you would do something like: % mail majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-announce local-announce@somesite.com ^D Finally, it is also possible to unsubscribe yourself from a list, get a list of other list members or see the list of mailing lists again by sending other types of control messages to majordomo. For a complete list of available commands, do this: % mail majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG help ^D Finally, we again request that you keep the technical mailing lists on a technical track. If you're only interested in the "high points", then we suggest that you join freebsd-announce, which contains only infrequent traffic. LIST CHARTERS FREEBSD-ADMIN Administrative issues ??? FREEBSD-ANNOUNCE Important events / milestones This is the mailing list for people interested only in occasional announcements of significant freebsd events. This includes announcements of snapshots and other releases. It contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities. It may contain calls for volunteers etc. This is a low volume list. FREEBSD-ARCH Architecture and design discussions This is the mailing list for people discussing FreeBSD architectural issues. It is a limited list requiring approval to joing FREEBSD-BUGS Bug reports This is the mailing list for reporting bugs in FreeBSD Whenever possible, bugs should be submitted using "send-pr". FREEBSD-CHAT Non technical items related to the community This list contains the overflow from the other lists about non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about whether Jordan looks like a tune ferret or not, whether or not to type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to this -chat list. FREEBSD-COMMIT Commit messages to source repository This is the mailing list that cvs commit messages go out to. No messages should be sent to this list except via a cvs commit command run on freefall.cdrom.com. NOTE: this list will be replaced by cvs-all; please subscribe to that list in place of freebsd-commit. FREEBSD-CORE FreeBSD core team This list is for use by the core team members. ???Could a core member please describe the list purpose? FREEBSD-CURRENT Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current This is the mailing list for users of freebsd-current. It includes warnings about new features coming out in -current that will affect the users, and instructions on steps that must be taken to remain -current. Anyone running "current" must subscribe to this list. FREEBSD-DOC Documentation project This mailing list belongs to the FreeBSD Documentation Project FREEBSD-FS Filesystems Discussions concerning FreeBSD filesystems. FREEBSD-HACKERS Technical discussions This is a forum for technical discussions related to FreeBSD. This is the highest volume technical mailing list. Individuals actively working on FreeBSD bring up problems they are working on and discuss solutions. Individuals interested in following the technical discussion are also welcome. FREEBSD-HARDWARE General discussion of FreeBSD hardware General discussion about the types of hardware that FreeBSD runs on, various problems and suggestions concerning what to buy or avoid. FREEBSD-INSTALL Installation discussion This is the mailing list for people discussing FreeBSD installation development for the new releases. FREEBSD-PLATFORMS Porting to Non-Intel platforms This list discusses cross-platform freebsd issues, general discussion and proposals for non-Intel FreeBSD ports. FREEBSD-POLICY Policy issues and suggestions This is a forum for policy discussions related to FreeBSD. This includes where FreeBSD is going, how to set up a consortium, whether or not and how to make FreeBSD pay for itself, how to attract more users, and so on. Whenever a topic is important and relates directly to FreeBSD but has little or no technical content then it should be sent to this list. FREEBSD-PORTS Discussion of "ports" Discussions concerning FreeBSD's "ports collection" (/usr/ports), proposed ports, modifications to ports collection infrastructure and general coordination efforts. FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. Most user questions should be directed to this list, unless it is to open a technical discussion or relates specifically to -current. FREEBSD-SCSI SCSI subsystem This is the mailing list for people working on the scsi subsystem for FreeBSD. FREEBSD-SECURITY Security issues FreeBSD computer security issues (DES, Kerberos, known security holes and fixes, etc). Thank you! -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 11:59:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA28962 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:59:31 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.222.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA28956 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:59:25 -0700 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02231 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:59:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199504271859.LAA02231@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA042813022; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:30:22 -0400 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504250656.QAA20127@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 25, 95 04:56:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 934 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Aren't we planning to fix this in 2.1? :-) Add enough ports and there will > no longer be room. (I like bloat in ports but not in src.) Look -- the 1 CD distribution shouldn't be considered a plus. Look at InfoMagic's 4 cd set -- selling like hotcakes. How about 1 CD -- install and sources 1 CD Ports and Applications and Commercial Demos. When FreeBSD takes off like Linux we'll have the 4 CD boxed set too! Take a look at the InfoMagic support phone number arrangement and install booklet. I'm a subscriber to their service for Linux and it's EXCELLENT. Folks -- comparison shop the competition! (Well, not really competition) Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 12:00:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA29003 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:00:58 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.222.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA28995 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:00:52 -0700 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA02344 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:01:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199504271901.MAA02344@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA042732499; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:21:39 -0400 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: E-mail/phone support for FreeBSD To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <10693.798781478@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 08:44:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1641 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > FreeBSD's user base is a lot smaller than I thought. I like the idea, > > but I can't see hiring one person as being an effective solution. > > They would do for a start. I think you miscalculate the percentage of > user base that actually calls for tech support. Linux is huge, and we > only get between 30 and 40 calls a day.. One person full-time can > easily handle that and we're nowhere near as big as Linux. This goes > double if they also put some time into implementing better mail > robots, an answers-by-FAX system, a more usable WWW based FAQ, etc. > > Jordan > I think it's doable. It's pretty amazing how many new installs can be supported by one medium-level sysadmin type with a software/hardware background. I know at least a half dozen Linux installs I supported *(before and during FreeBSD)*. Most new users need the simple things answered, fdisk, user accounts, Xconfig... The !@#$%^&* is the ones with uncompatible or unfriendly hardware combinations. (Linux and Coherent were the only Unix-ish systems (I was told Sco and SysVR3 and R4 -- with a special patch from a driver writer from AT&T) that would work on the Perstor RLL controller. I'm looking to see if 2.1 will work on it. This one HAS to have a working bad144 to work. (*I'm even willing to send one controller out west if anyone wants to try it*) Bill Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 13:07:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA01100 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:07:12 -0700 Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com (ix4.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01089 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:07:07 -0700 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id NAA28973; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:05:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:05:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199504272005.NAA28973@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: jnieten@ix.netcom.com (Joe Nieten) Subject: Help To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have FreeBSD running on: Compaq CDS 850 (DX/2 50) 16M memory Adaptec 1542cf controller and, I am trying to put in a network card. I have an SMC Elite 16 Combo card, and, I keep getting conflicts. What address should I set the card to? Any ideas? Joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 13:23:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA01699 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:23:35 -0700 Received: from husky.cs.vt.edu (jaitken@cslab.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.87]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01692 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:23:26 -0700 Received: (jaitken@localhost) by husky.cs.vt.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id QAA02702 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:23:23 -0400 From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199504272023.QAA02702@husky.cs.vt.edu> Subject: Changes for 2.1 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:23:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1211 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I seem to remember some traffic on the -hackers list of late pertaining to changes being made in 2.1 that will render certain things from 2.0 invalid, obsolete, etc.. Unfortunately, I didn't pay much attention to them, but now need to know what (if anything) will be different. Of course, I mean "major" differences, not all the hundreds (thousands?) of bug fixes and the like. The reason I ask is that the CS department here at Va. Tech is going to require incoming CS freshman to buy a PC with FreeBSD, and one of my jobs is to create the clone drive. I'd like to wait for 2.1 if possible, and if there are going to be major differences, that would be one more good reason to do so. I understand all the core team members are awfully busy with 2.1, but I did poke around the web server on www.freebsd.org, looking also at the mail and usenet archives, so I would appreciate a reply, no matter how brief. I don't need to know specifics, just a short summary would do. I'm sure there are others who would be interested in this information as well. Of course, if there is a paper somewhere or something that documents this, a pointer to it would be sufficient! Thanks! -- Jeff Aitken jaitken@vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 13:41:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA02247 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:41:17 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.222.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02227 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:41:05 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA12745 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:41:18 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15361; Thu, 27 Apr 95 14:33:58 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504272033.AA15361@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM To: pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (william pechter ILEX) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 14:33:57 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504271859.LAA02231@wcarchive.cdrom.com> from "william pechter ILEX" at Apr 25, 95 08:30:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about 1 CD -- install and sources > 1 CD Ports and Applications and Commercial Demos. Speaking of commercial demos, I *loved* the SunSoft CD where you can turn the version from the CD into the commercial software by calling up and getting an activation key. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 13:51:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA02637 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:51:11 -0700 Received: from morton.cdrom.com (morton.cdrom.com [192.216.222.17]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02630 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:51:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by morton.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17431 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:52:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199504272052.NAA17431@morton.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: morton.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:52:11 -0700 From: Charlie & Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is a dialog based kernel configuration utility! See devmenu or tzsetup in -current for an example of two utilities that now use dialog intensively for this kind of thing. Any takers? It would _really_ be a nice to have! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 13:54:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA02725 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:54:22 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02719 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:54:19 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA17695; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:54:02 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504272054.NAA17695@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ncurses 1.9.0 released To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 27, 95 02:53:10 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 690 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <456.798959364@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > >So, when do we simply transition over ourselvse? :-) > > >I've been thinking for awhile that having two curses libraries is > >somewhat bogus. Given that ncurses now has a `fallback mode' for > >/etc/termcap, DOES IT? If so, and it's backwards compatible, then I think we should change I've used the keyboard mapping stuff and once you've used it you really don't want to do without it for screen based apps. > I don't see that we have much left to wait for. As soon > >as 1.9.0 makes it into the tree, I'll try some experiements with > >replacing curses entirely with it and see how it works. good idea From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 14:02:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA03299 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:02:22 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA03139 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:00:05 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA17732; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:59:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504272059.NAA17732@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' To: waarbau@super.org (William A. Arbaugh) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com In-Reply-To: from "William A. Arbaugh" at Apr 27, 95 11:27:16 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1478 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It looks as if we have a problem with the new slice code that went out in the last SNAP. My guess is that certain disklabel/BIOS-data/MBR combinations are interpretted differently than before, leading to an inability to read the root partition... > > > 3. During the install of 0412 newfs produces the following warning > message 'Calculated sectors per cylinder 4096 disagrees with disklabel > (2046). No other warnings/errors are produced during the install. I think this is possibly a clue.. > > 4. Booting the 0412 SNAP kernel placed on the disk by the install process > with -v prints out the BIOS geometries and then hangs. Looking at the > sources for 0322- that tells me that it's getting to cpu_startup() but > not much more. The geometries reported are: > > BIOS Geometries: 0:3ff0208 > 1:4f010f > 2:4f010f > 3:4f010f > 4:4f010f > 5:4f010f > 6:4f010f > 7:4f010f > 0 accounted for > > Booting the 0322 fixit floppy with -v produces the same geometry > information. I haven't a clue if that info is good/bad etc. > > 5. Anyone have a 0412 based fixit floppy? I'm stuck and I'm not sure how > to proceed. phk just made one... > > bill > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Arbaugh "Waste of time is the most > waarbau@super.org extravagant of all expenses" > waa@dsl.cis.upenn.edu -Theophrastus > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 14:28:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA04073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:28:03 -0700 Received: from super.super.org (super.super.org [192.31.192.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA04030 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:26:00 -0700 Received: from gotham.super.org (gotham-e [192.239.79.2]) by super.super.org (8.6.11/8.6.10.1) with ESMTP id RAA23713; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:25:57 -0400 Received: from hume.super.org (hume.super.org [192.239.79.11]) by gotham.super.org (8.6.11/8.6.10.1) with SMTP id RAA18260; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:25:57 -0400 Received: by hume.super.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09992; Thu, 27 Apr 95 17:25:50 EDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:25:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "William A. Arbaugh" To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' In-Reply-To: <199504272059.NAA17732@ref.tfs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > It looks as if we have a problem with the new slice code that went > out in the last SNAP. > > My guess is that certain disklabel/BIOS-data/MBR combinations > are interpretted differently than before, leading to > an inability to read the root partition... > Steve Kargl provided the solution (at least for me- I haven't heard from tom@batc.allied.com yet). The problem seems to be with the 3c509 card and some of the device probing. I rebooted (with -c) and disabled ep0, and everything the system boots fine. (I should have thought of that! Thanks Steve!). The question now is WHAT exactly is causing this problem. I'm going to spend some time to try and narrow down the probe conflict. I'll post if I know more. bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Arbaugh "Waste of time is the most waarbau@super.org extravagant of all expenses" waa@dsl.cis.upenn.edu -Theophrastus ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 15:31:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA06141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:31:00 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA06134 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:30:57 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA06730 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:30:38 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA03478 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:30:38 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504272230.AAA03478@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? To: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:30:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 27, 95 07:46:00 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1406 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm spending the second day trying to setup a dialin. > One simple question: should the /usr/libexec/getty be used for that Yes, getty is the program you want to use. > purpose? Where are the modem init strings are located? In your modem's NVRAM :-) > Any entries I should add into /etc/gettytab? I did it with this in gettytab : ---------------------------- U|supra.57600|supra-57600:\ :cb:ce:ck:sp#57600:ap:cs#8:xa:np:hw:\ :if=/etc/issue.modem:\ :im=\r\n\r\n*** Keltia\r\n Welcomes Thee!\r\n\ \r\nFreeBSD 2.1\r\n:lm=\r\n%h login\72 : ---------------------------- This in /etc/ttys : ---------------------------- ttyd0 "/usr/libexec/getty supra.57600" vt100 on ---------------------------- and this in /etc/rc.local (I don't use the new wiz-bang rc* files by lazyness). ---------------------------- echo -n 'Local comm ports setup: ' if [ -x /bin/stty ]; then /bin/stty -f /dev/cuaia0 57600 crtscts /bin/stty -f /dev/cuala0 57600 crtscts /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyid0 57600 crtscts hupcl /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyld0 57600 crtscts hupcl /sbin/comcontrol /dev/ttyd0 dtrwait 500 echo 'ttyd0: RTS/CTS enabled' fi ---------------------------- Works like a charm. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 15:42:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA06420 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:42:20 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA06410 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:42:04 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02877; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:41:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA17974; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:41:53 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id XAA01633; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:50:31 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504272150.XAA01633@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? To: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:50:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 27, 95 07:46:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1443 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm spending the second day trying to setup a dialin. > One simple question: should the /usr/libexec/getty be used for that > purpose? Where are the modem init strings are located? > Any entries I should add into /etc/gettytab? I think there is a FAQ somewhere in the Web page. Yes, /usr/libexec/getty is the way to go. You normally don't need to add anything in gettytab, just edit /etc/ttys, and "kill -HUP 1" to get the change in effect. Modem init string? Huh, "ats0=1&w", and let the modem do the rest. Remember, the normal way to share a line for dialin/dialout is to access it via /dev/cuaa* (dialout) and /dev/ttyd* (dialin). The open(2) call on the dialin device will block until the carrier appears, and if you think more about this, there is not even a chance to have the getty talking to the modem at this time. Of course, you're free to use mgetty, which must use the dialout device in order to work. Anyway, the device sharing must be done via those ***ing lock files then, which can cause serious race conditions. (Believe me, i do use mgetty, since my modem is too braindead to do what it's expected to do. My slip dial script is full of hacks which are only needed for that lock file crap, and there are still race conditions, but i'm tired to try even more hackery on this. I wish i had the money for a really working modem right now, and could go back to the regular getty instead of all those hacks.) Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 15:43:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA06461 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:43:02 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA06446 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:42:37 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02906; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:42:08 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA17989 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:42:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id AAA01783 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:24:45 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504272224.AAA01783@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: looking for IP over printer port driver users To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:24:42 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504271639.JAA08071@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Apr 27, 95 09:38:57 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 353 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Once I know the rewritten driver is happy, I'll be adding support for the > Crynwr/Linux PLIP protocol format. Btw., i've heard that Linux went back to the Crynwr protocol finally, while their first implementation has been a different one. Hmm, don't forget to delete the Linux PLIP item from one of our 23 TODO lists, once you are done. :-) Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 16:07:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA09842 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:07:35 -0700 Received: from jeack.apana.org.au (nrc@jeack.apana.org.au [202.12.87.82]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09831 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:07:19 -0700 Received: (from nrc@localhost) by jeack.apana.org.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA06377 for FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:55:04 GMT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:55:04 GMT From: Nathan Chapman (Guest) Message-Id: <199504280855.IAA06377@jeack.apana.org.au> Apparently-To: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 16:20:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA10255 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:20:40 -0700 Received: from nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (nm0024.nmso.nm.blm.gov [158.68.160.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA10246 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:20:37 -0700 Received: by nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA34389; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:21:12 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:21:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Olsen Reply-To: colsen@pdsinc.com To: Charlie & Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199504272052.NAA17431@morton.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Charlie & wrote: > Is a dialog based kernel configuration utility! > > See devmenu or tzsetup in -current for an example of two utilities that > now use dialog intensively for this kind of thing. > > Any takers? It would _really_ be a nice to have! > > Jordan > Jordan, When would you need this by? I have started playing with libdialog for some other stuff and I think this would be pretty straight forward. Do you want it to cover ALL config options or just the most common? ------------------------------ | Christopher Bryan Olsen | | Productive Data Systems | | colsen@pdsinc.com | | (505) 438-7812 | ------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 17:37:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA13610 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:37:48 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13511 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:35:44 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA11445; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:29:03 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:29:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504280029.KAA11445@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, waarbau@super.org Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It looks as if we have a problem with the new slice code that went >out in the last SNAP. How does sysinstall handle slices? Not? >My guess is that certain disklabel/BIOS-data/MBR combinations >are interpretted differently than before, leading to >an inability to read the root partition... >> >> >> 3. During the install of 0412 newfs produces the following warning >> message 'Calculated sectors per cylinder 4096 disagrees with disklabel >> (2046). No other warnings/errors are produced during the install. >I think this is possibly a clue.. Probably not. This is a normal warning. newfs now always uses 4096 sectors per cylinder by default. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 19:04:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20846 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:04:35 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20839 for hackers; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:04:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:04:32 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504280204.TAA20839@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: WHere is the fixit floppy? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk julian. (lookig high and low) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 21:14:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA27497 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:14:27 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA27355 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:13:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01040; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:12:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: waarbau@super.org (William A. Arbaugh), hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:59:54 PDT." <199504272059.NAA17732@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:12:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1038.799042353@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It looks as if we have a problem with the new slice code that went > out in the last SNAP. > There wasn't any slice code in the last snap. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 21:26:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA27776 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:26:47 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA27770 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:26:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01229; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:26:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: colsen@pdsinc.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:21:11 MDT." Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:26:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1227.799043184@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When would you need this by? I have started playing with libdialog for > some other stuff and I think this would be pretty straight forward. Do > you want it to cover ALL config options or just the most common? I'd need it by Wednesday at the absolute latest and I don't know if ALL the options are necessary, though it'd be nice. I'd certainly settle for just the most common ones! Once it's generated the user's config file, it should then offer to build and then (optionally) install it, also giving the user helpful hints about booting with /kernel.old in case of trouble. Oh yes, it should also mention the `-c' flag as an alternative to configuring the kernel at all before you start.. Now that we have dset working, the -c changes are permanant and a definite alternative to compiling up a whole new kernel. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 21:31:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA27855 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:31:28 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA27849 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:31:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01256; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:29:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: William Maddox cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, rcarter@geli.com Subject: Re: N. Cal.: FreeBSD party In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:24:06 PDT." <199504280224.TAA03000@redwood.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:29:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1254.799043390@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Have many people expressed interest? I have been following the > FreeBSD newsgroups and the 'freebsd-announce' mailing list, but > have not yet bought a machine, and am perplexed by the various > compatibility issues. It would be interesting to meet some people Well, you can either come to the party or you can wait for our new hardware compatability guide! :-) Oh, and FYI, *please* don't use -announce for stuff like this (I've revectored it to -hackers). It's full of people who only want to see very small amounts of mail from us, and only on items of significant interest. Thanks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 22:15:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA28719 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:15:43 -0700 Received: from virgo ([140.109.40.247]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA28642 ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:13:19 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by virgo (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00221; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:13:45 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:13:44 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Terry Lambert cc: Paul Traina , current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Current list offline? In-Reply-To: <9504271704.AA13917@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I noticed this because my mail volume was teeny today. Apparently > I'm still getting hackers and questions. I noticed the same thing too... only 9 messages on -current in the past 24 hours. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 22:28:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA29139 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:28:11 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA29129 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:28:08 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08355; Fri, 28 Apr 95 00:27:34 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504280527.AA08355@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Is it just me, or... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:27:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 276 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD 2.0-RELEASE. Trying to look at sd7 on my news server, systat refused to look at it. (ie I could not ask it to add that drive, and :drives did not display sd7). Has this been fixed, or should I make an afternoon project out of various minor systat cleanups? ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 23:22:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA00803 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:22:27 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA00795 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:22:24 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA01222; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:18:40 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504280518.BAA01222@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504280029.KAA11445@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 28, 95 10:29:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1412 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Bruce Evans person was kidding when he wrote: > >> 3. During the install of 0412 newfs produces the following warning > >> message 'Calculated sectors per cylinder 4096 disagrees with disklabel > >> (2046). No other warnings/errors are produced during the install. > > >I think this is possibly a clue.. > > Probably not. This is a normal warning. newfs now always uses 4096 > sectors per cylinder by default. > > Bruce > Y'know, I see this same message whenever I mount my swap partition as an mfs filesystem on /tmp, and I saw it today when trying to newfs a floppy. At least in the case of the floppy, this caused me all sorts of grief until I forced it to use 36 sectors per cylinder with a command line option (4096 sectors per cylinder on a 1.44 meg floppy? yer kidding, right?). Could somebody please explain to me what's so normal about this value? -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 23:51:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA01134 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:51:21 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA01127 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:50:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:51:04 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199504272150.XAA01633@jette.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:50:27 +0200 (MET DST) > From: J Wunsch > To: Anthony Graphics > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? >=20 > >=20 > > I'm spending the second day trying to setup a dialin. > > One simple question: should the /usr/libexec/getty be used for that > > purpose? Where are the modem init strings are located? > > Any entries I should add into /etc/gettytab? >=20 > I think there is a FAQ somewhere in the Web page. I've got the FAQ (the second time in fact: last time I've read it a week ago but forgot everything already ;-) Thank you guys for responsiveness: the second read through the FAQ cleared things to me ;-) >=20 > Yes, /usr/libexec/getty is the way to go. You normally don't need > to add anything in gettytab, just edit /etc/ttys, and "kill -HUP 1" > to get the change in effect. >=20 > Modem init string? Huh, "ats0=3D1&w", and let the modem do the rest. From=20what I understand I should initiate the modem once with either tip or cu and then AT&W. So, /usr/libexec/getty loads the NVRAM profile with ATZ? What is not clear is: what would happen if NVRAM'd get lost or corrupted someshow? Could I init the modem from the batch file (well, something that has the same effect as /etc/default/uu*S? in gettyps) ? I suppose I could, but what is the proper tool to do this? Kermit or chat from pppd-2.1.2c package? >=20 > Remember, the normal way to share a line for dialin/dialout is > to access it via /dev/cuaa* (dialout) and /dev/ttyd* (dialin). > The open(2) call on the dialin device will block until the carrier > appears, and if you think more about this, there is not even a > chance to have the getty talking to the modem at this time. That's nice. Ok, is there any way to use getty with modem in the command mode (i.e. ATS=3D0 and wait for "RING") so that it won't pick up the phone when the system is down or shan't I be doing it? >=20 > Of course, you're free to use mgetty, which must use the dialout > device in order to work. Anyway, the device sharing must be done > via those ***ing lock files then, which can cause serious race > conditions. (Believe me, i do use mgetty, since my modem is too > braindead to do what it's expected to do. My slip dial script > is full of hacks which are only needed for that lock file crap, > and there are still race conditions, but i'm tired to try even > more hackery on this. I wish i had the money for a really working > modem right now, and could go back to the regular getty instead > of all those hacks.) Hmm, I tried mgetty under linux but I still can't get into one thing: is there any way to use this stuff in the system with zoo of modems of different type, init strings are hardwired, right? Thanx to everybody responded: I'm not familar with bsd serial at all as you may notice ;-) Still it resembles a bit Intaractive in the dialin part :^) >=20 > J=F6rg >=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 23:53:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA01210 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:53:00 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA01204 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:52:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:08:43 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199504272230.AAA03478@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:30:37 +0200 (MET DST) > From: Ollivier Robert > To: Anthony Graphics > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? > > > I'm spending the second day trying to setup a dialin. > > One simple question: should the /usr/libexec/getty be used for that > > Yes, getty is the program you want to use. > > > purpose? Where are the modem init strings are located? > > In your modem's NVRAM :-) > > > Any entries I should add into /etc/gettytab? > > I did it with this in gettytab : > > ---------------------------- > U|supra.57600|supra-57600:\ > :cb:ce:ck:sp#57600:ap:cs#8:xa:np:hw:\ > :if=/etc/issue.modem:\ > :im=\r\n\r\n*** Keltia\r\n Welcomes Thee!\r\n\ > \r\nFreeBSD 2.1\r\n:lm=\r\n%h login\72 : > ---------------------------- > > This in /etc/ttys : > > ---------------------------- > ttyd0 "/usr/libexec/getty supra.57600" vt100 on > ---------------------------- > > and this in /etc/rc.local (I don't use the new wiz-bang rc* files by > lazyness). > > ---------------------------- > echo -n 'Local comm ports setup: ' > > if [ -x /bin/stty ]; then > /bin/stty -f /dev/cuaia0 57600 crtscts > /bin/stty -f /dev/cuala0 57600 crtscts > /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyid0 57600 crtscts hupcl > /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyld0 57600 crtscts hupcl Hmm, after inclusion of these lines into rc.local the system panics right away, that's stock 950412-SNAP... AGL > /sbin/comcontrol /dev/ttyd0 dtrwait 500 > echo 'ttyd0: RTS/CTS enabled' > fi > ---------------------------- > > Works like a charm. > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 27 23:53:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA01216 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:53:03 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA01203 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:52:42 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA22098; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:49:37 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:49:37 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504280649.QAA22098@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> 3. During the install of 0412 newfs produces the following warning >> >> message 'Calculated sectors per cylinder 4096 disagrees with disklabel >> >> (2046). No other warnings/errors are produced during the install. >> ... >Y'know, I see this same message whenever I mount my swap partition >as an mfs filesystem on /tmp, and I saw it today when trying to newfs >a floppy. At least in the case of the floppy, this caused me all >sorts of grief until I forced it to use 36 sectors per cylinder with >a command line option (4096 sectors per cylinder on a 1.44 meg floppy? >yer kidding, right?). Could somebody please explain to me what's so >normal about this value? newfs used to default to the geometry in the label. It was br^H^Hchanged to default to a fictitious geometry with each cylinder having one track of 4096 sectors. This is supposed to give a better filesystem layout for ZBR drives (a fictitious geometry specialized for running newfs is likely to be better than a fictitions geometry specialized for avoiding BIOS braindamage) and to avoid some newfs bugs for certain geometries. It works poorly for 1.xMB floppies. The most amusing brokenness is that it gives more inodes than there are sectors on a floppy. This is interesting because it shows that the cpg and inospercg calculations don't work in boundary cases. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 00:27:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA01698 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:27:42 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA01686 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:27:34 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA23190; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:25:30 +1000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:25:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504280725.RAA23190@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> if [ -x /bin/stty ]; then >> /bin/stty -f /dev/cuaia0 57600 crtscts >> /bin/stty -f /dev/cuala0 57600 crtscts >> /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyid0 57600 crtscts hupcl >> /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyld0 57600 crtscts hupcl >Hmm, after inclusion of these lines into rc.local the system panics right >away, that's stock 950412-SNAP... This was broken the day before the SNAP and fixed the day after. Use a dummy open of the tty to avoid the problem: /bin/stty -f /dev/ttyd0 >/dev/null Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 00:29:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA01737 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:29:55 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA01731 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:29:54 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: NCR SCSI failure (failure to convert linux user) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:29:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4501 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk here is the error message from the FreeBSD NCR driver.. it failed badly.. linux runs on this device ok (but slow) julian ========== ncr0 targ0?: ERROR(80:140) (8-2a-0)(8/13) @ (404:900b0000). reg: da 10 80 13 47 8 0 1f 3 8 80 2a 80 0 2 0 . ncr0: restart (fatal error). ncr0: reset by timeout. sd0(ncr0:0:0); FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10MB/sec) offset 8. sd: error reading primary partition table reading fsbn 0 (sd0 bn 0; cn 0 tn 0 sn 0) ========== below is the linux dmesg output, and other information.. Forwarded message: > From idiom.com!jason Fri Apr 28 00:16:31 1995 > Message-Id: <199504280720.AAA22949@idiom.com> > X-Authentication-Warning: idiom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol > To: julian@tfs.com > Subject: dmesg from linux > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:20:25 -0700 > From: Jason Venner > > > PCI/I - P54NP4D mother board. > > card is an SC-200 NCR53C810 > > Console: colour EGA+ 80x25, 1 virtual console (max 63) > bios32_init : BIOS32 Service Directory structure at 0x000fc7e0 > bios32_init : BIOS32 Service Directory entry at 0xfcc10 > pcibios_init : PCI BIOS revision 2.00 entry at 0xfcc40 > Probing PCI hardware. > PCI bridge optimisation. > Cache L2 : Not supported. > CPU-PCI posted write : on. > CPU-Memory posted write : on. > PCI-Memory posted write : on. > PCI burst : on. > Calibrating delay loop.. ok - 39.94 BogoMips > Serial driver version 4.11 with no serial options enabled > tty00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A > tty01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A > lp1 at 0x0378, using polling driver > snd2 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 > snd6 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 5 > snd7 at 0x330 irq 5 drq 0 > snd1 at 0x388 irq 0 drq 0 > mcd=0x300,10: Init failed. No mcd device at 0x300 irq 10 > Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M > FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077 > scsi-ncr53c7,8xx : at PCI bus 0, device 4, function 0 > scsi-ncr53c7,8xx : NCR53c810 at memory 0xfbfef000, io 0xe800, irq 14 > scsi0 : using io mapped access > scsi0 : using initiator ID 7 > scsi0 : using level active interrupts > scsi0 : burst length 8 > scsi0 : using 40MHz SCSI clock > scsi0 : NCR code relocated to 0x3dc880 > scsi0 : test 1 started > scsi0 : NCR53c{7,8}xx (rel 4) > scsi : 1 host. > Vendor: QUANTUM Model: XP34301 Rev: 102B > Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi disk sda at scsi0, id 0, lun 0 > Vendor: QUANTUM Model: PD1800S Rev: 3162 > Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi disk sdb at scsi0, id 1, lun 0 > Vendor: FUJITSU Model: M2694ES-512 Rev: 812A > Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi disk sdc at scsi0, id 2, lun 0 > Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM PX-4XCH Rev: 1.23 > Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, id 3, lun 0 > Vendor: WANGTEK Model: 6200-HS Rev: 4B18 > Type: Sequential-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi tape st0 at scsi0, id 4, lun 0 > scsi : detected 1 SCSI tape 1 SCSI cdrom 3 SCSI disks total. > SCSI Hardware sector size is 512 bytes on device sda > SCSI Hardware sector size is 512 bytes on device sdb > SCSI Hardware sector size is 512 bytes on device sdc > Memory: 29160k/32768k available (796k kernel code, 384k reserved, 2428k data) > This processor honours the WP bit even when in supervisor mode. Good. > Swansea University Computer Society NET3.019 > Swansea University Computer Society TCP/IP for NET3.019 > IP Protocols: IGMP, ICMP, UDP, TCP > PPP: version 0.2.7 (4 channels) NEW_TTY_DRIVERS OPTIMIZE_FLAGS > TCP compression code copyright 1989 Regents of the University of California > PPP line discipline registered. > SLIP: version 0.8.3-NET3.019-NEWTTY (16 channels) (6 bit encapsulation enabled) > CSLIP: code copyright 1989 Regents of the University of California > eth0: 3c509 at 0x300 tag 1, AUI port, address 00 20 af 6b ac 98, IRQ 7. > 3c509.c:1.03 10/8/94 becker@cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov > Checking 386/387 coupling... Ok, fpu using exception 16 error reporting. > Checking 'hlt' instruction... Ok. > Linux version 1.2.6 (root@anami) (gcc version 2.6.3) #9 Mon Apr 24 08:39:30 PDT 1995 > Partition check: > sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 < sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 sda9 sda10 sda11 sda12 sda13 sda14 > > sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 > sdc: sdc1 sdc2 sdc3 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 00:35:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA01913 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:35:50 -0700 Received: from FirePower.COM (firepower.firepower.com [198.4.104.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA01885 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 00:35:25 -0700 Received: from tuskppp by FirePower.COM (NX5.67d/NX4.0Mhb.0b) id AA09158; Fri, 28 Apr 95 00:34:54 -0700 Received: from rhiannon by tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0M.dsms.0.3) id AA19546; Fri, 28 Apr 95 00:34:20 -0700 Message-Id: <9504280734.AA19546@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> Received: by rhiannon.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01762; Fri, 28 Apr 95 00:34:18 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: harold barker Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 00:34:16 -0700 To: waarbau@super.org Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org, tom@batc.allied.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk here is what finaly worked for me. root@bananna:/[304] dmesg FreeBSD 2.0.950412-SNAP #0: Thu Apr 27 22:57:34 1995 root@bananna.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us:/usr/src/sys/compile/DSMS CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real memory = 12189696 (2976 pages) avail memory = 10592256 (2586 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> lpt0 not found at 0x3bc sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16450 pca0 on motherboard pca0: PC speaker audio driver aha0 is a 154xCF-2.01-VC.0: enabling mailbox and residuals aha0: reading board settings, dma=5 int=11 (bus speed defaulted) aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa (aha0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST3600N 9690" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(aha0:0:0): Direct-Access 500MB (1025920 512 byte sectors) fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 765 fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa ep0: aui/bnc/utp[*BNC*] address 00:60:8c:f3:b1:e1 irq 10 bpf: ep0 attached npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface bio_imask c0000840 tty_imask c0030412 net_imask c0030412 bpf: ds0 attached bpf: lo0 attached bpf: ppp0 attached bpf: ppp1 attached bpf: sl0 attached bpf: sl1 attached bpf: tun0 attached root@bananna:/[305] and /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/DSMS ------------------------------------------------------------------- # # LINT -- config file for checking all the sources, tries to pull in # as much of the source tree as it can. # # $Id: LINT,v 1.168 1995/04/12 22:02:51 phk Exp $ # # NB: You probably don't want to try running a kernel built from this # file. Instead, you should start from GENERIC, and add options from # this file as required. # # # This directive is mandatory; it defines the architecture to be # configured for; in this case, the 386 family. You must also specify # at least one CPU (the one you intend to run on); deleting the # specification for CPUs you don't need to use may make parts of the # system run faster # machine "i386" #cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" #cpu "I586_CPU" # aka Pentium(tm) # # This is the ``identification'' of the kernel. Usually this should # be the same as the name of your kernel. # ident DSMS # # The `maxusers' parameter controls the static sizing of a number of # internal system tables by a complicated formula defined in param.c. # maxusers 16 # # Under some circumstances it is necessary to make the default max # number of proccesses per user and open files per user more than the # defaults on bootup. (an example is a large news server in which # the uid, news, can sometimes need > 100 simultaneous processes running) options "CHILD_MAX=128" options "OPEN_MAX=128" # # A math emulator is mandatory if you wish to run on hardware which # does not have a floating-point processor. Pick either the original, # bogus (but freely-distributable) math emulator, or a much more # fully-featured but GPL-licensed emulator taken from Linux. # options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation #options GPL_MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emualtion via #new math emulator # # This directive defines a number of things: # - The compiled kernel is to be called `kernel' # - The root filesystem might be on partition wd0a # - The kernel can swap on wd0b and sd0b, defaulting to the former # - Crash dumps will be written to wd0b, if possible # config kernel root on sd0 swap on sd0 dumps on sd0 ##################################################################### # COMPATIBILITY OPTIONS # # Implement system calls compatible with 4.3BSD and older versions of # FreeBSD. # options "COMPAT_43" # # Allow user-mode programs to manipulat their local descriptor tables. # This option is required for the WINE Windows(tm) emulator, and is # not used by anything else (that we know of). # options USER_LDT #allow user-level control of i386 ldt # # These three options provide support for System V Interface # Definition-style interprocess communication, in the form of shared # memory, semaphores, and message queues, respectively. # options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG ##################################################################### # DEBUGGING OPTIONS # # Enable the kernel debugger. # options DDB # # Enable dumping of the kernel image to swap for panics. This is not # the default because writing to misconfigured swap may wipe out file # systems. # options DODUMP # # KTRACE enables the system-call tracing facility ktrace(2). # options KTRACE #kernel tracing # # The DIAGNOSTIC option is used in a number of source files to enable # extra sanity checking of internal structures. This support is not # enabled by default because of the extra time it would take to check # for these conditions, which can only occur as a result of # programming errors. # options DIAGNOSTIC # # Allow ordinary users to take the console - this is useful for X. options UCONSOLE ##################################################################### # NETWORKING OPTIONS # # Protocol families: # Only the INET (Internet) family is officially supported in FreeBSD. # Source code for the NS (Xerox Network Service), ISO (OSI), and # CCITT (X.25) families is provided for amusement value, although we # try to ensure that it actually compiles. # options INET #Internet communications protocols #options ISO #options CCITT #X.25 network layer #options NS #Xerox NS communications protocols #options TPIP #ISO TP class 4 over IP #options TPCONS #ISO TP class 0 over X.25 # # Network interfaces: # The `loop' pseudo-device is mandatory when networking is enabled. # The `ether' pseudo-device provides generic code to handle # Ethernets; it is mandatory when a Ethernet device driver is # configured. # The 'fddi' pseudo-device provides generic code to support FDDI. # The `sppp' pseudo-device serves a similar role for certain types # of synchronous PPP links (like `cx'). # The `sl' pseudo-device implements the Serial Line IP (SLIP) service. # The `ppp' pseudo-device implements the Point-to-Point Protocol. # The `bpfilter' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. Be # aware of the legal and administrative consequences of enabling this # option. The number of devices determines the maximum number of # simultaneous BPF clients programs runnable. # The `disc' pseudo-device implements a minimal network interface, # which throws away all packets sent and never receives any. It is # included for testing purposes. # The `tun' pseudo-device implements the User Process PPP (iijppp) # pseudo-device ether #Generic Ethernet #pseudo-device fddi #Generic FDDI pseudo-device sppp #Generic Synchronous PPP pseudo-device loop #Network loopback device pseudo-device sl 2 #Serial Line IP pseudo-device ppp 2 #Point-to-point protocol pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device disc #Discard device pseudo-device tun 1 #Tunnel driver(user process ppp) #options NSIP #XNS over IP #options EON #ISO CLNP over IP #options LLC #X.25 link layer for Ethernets #options HDLC #X.25 link layer for serial lines # # Internet family options: # # TCP_COMPAT_42 causes the TCP code to emulate certain bugs present in # 4.2BSD. This option should not be used unless you have a 4.2BSD # machine and TCP connections fail. # # GATEWAY allows the machine to forward packets, and also configures # larger static sizes of a number of system tables. # # MROUTING enables the kernel multicast packet forwarder, which works # with mrouted(8). # # IPFIREWALL enables support for IP firewall construction, in # conjunction with the `ipfw' program. IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE does # the obvious thing. # IPACCT enables IP accounting. # # ARP_PROXYALL enables global proxy ARP. Beware! This can burn # your house down! See netinet/if_ether.c for the gory details. # (Eventually there will be a better management interface.) # options "TCP_COMPAT_42" #emulate 4.2BSD TCP bugs options GATEWAY #internetwork gateway #options MROUTING # Multicast routing options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about options IPACCT #ipaccounting # dropped packets #options ARP_PROXYALL # global proxy ARP ##################################################################### # FILESYSTEM OPTIONS # # Only the root, /usr, and /tmp filesystems need be statically # compiled; everything else will be automatically loaded at mount # time. (Exception: the UFS family---FFS, MFS, and LFS---cannot # currently be demand-loaded.) Some people still prefer to statically # compile other filesystems as well. # # NB: The LFS, PORTAL, and UNION filesystems are known to be buggy, # and WILL panic your system if you attempt to do anything with them. # They are included here as an incentive for some enterprising soul to # sit down and fix them. # # Note: 4.4BSD NQNFS lease checking has relatively high cost for # _local_ I/O as well as remote I/O. Don't use it unless you will # using NQNFS. # # One of these is mandatory: options FFS #Fast filesystem options NFS #Network File System # The rest are optional: #options NQNFS #Enable NQNFS lease checking options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 filesystem options FDESC #File descriptor filesystem options KERNFS #Kernel filesystem options LFS #Log filesystem options MFS #Memory File System options MSDOSFS #MS DOS File System options NULLFS #NULL filesystem options PORTAL #Portal filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options UMAPFS #UID map filesystem options UNION #Union filesystem # # Disk quotas are supported when this option is enabled. If you # change the value of this option, you must do a `make clean' in your # kernel compile directory in order to get a working kernel. # #options QUOTA #enable disk quotas ##################################################################### # SCSI DEVICES # SCSI OPTIONS: # SCSIDEBUG: When defined enables debugging macros # NO_SCSI_SENSE: When defined disables sense descriptions (about 4k) # SCSI DEVICE CONFIGURATION # The SCSI subsystem consists of the `base' SCSI code, a number of # high-level SCSI device `type' drivers, and the low-level host-adapter # device drivers. The host adapters are listed in the ISA and PCI # device configuration sections below. # # Beginning with FreeBSD 2.1 you can wire down your SCSI devices so # that a given bus, target, and LUN always come on line as the same # device unit. In earlier versions the unit numbers were assigned # in the order that the devices were probed on the SCSI bus. This # means that if you removed a disk drive, you may have had to rewrite # your /etc/fstab file, and also that you had to be careful when adding # a new disk as it may have been probed earlier and moved your device # configuration around. # This old behavior is maintained as the default behavior. The unit # assignment begins with the first non-wired down unit for a device # type. For example, if you wire a disk as "sd3" then the first # non-wired disk will be assigned sd4. # The syntax for wiring down devices is: # disk sd0 at scbus0 target 0 unit 0 # disk sd1 at scbus0 target 1 # disk sd2 at scbus0 target 3 # tape st1 at scbus0 target 6 # device cd0 at scbus? # "units" (SCSI logical unit number) that are not specified are # treated as if specified as LUN 0. # All SCSI devices allocate as many units as are required. # The "unknown" device (uk? in pre-2.1) is now part of the base SCSI # configuration and doesn't have to be explicitly configured. controller scbus0 #base SCSI code device ch0 #SCSI media changers device sd0 #SCSI disks device st0 #SCSI tapes device cd0 #SCSI CD-ROMs ##################################################################### # MISCELLANEOUS DEVICES AND OPTIONS # # Of these, only the `log' device is truly mandatory. The `pty' # device usually turns out to be ``effectively mandatory'', as it is # required for `telnetd', `rlogind', `screen', `emacs', and `xterm', # among others. # pseudo-device pty 16 #Pseudo ttys - can go as high as 64 pseudo-device speaker #Play IBM BASIC-style noises out your speaker pseudo-device log #Kernel syslog interface (/dev/klog) pseudo-device gzip #Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn #Vnode driver (turns a file into a device) pseudo-device snp 3 #Snoop device - to look at pty/vty/etc.. ##################################################################### # HARDWARE DEVICE CONFIGURATION # ISA and EISA devices: # Currently there is no separate support for EISA. There should be. # Micro Channel is not supported at all. # # Mandatory ISA devices: isa, sc, npx # controller isa0 # # Options for `isa': # # ALLOW_CONFLICT_DRQ suppresses the DMA conflict checks. This option is # included so that people with sound cards that support multiple emulations # can setup different sound drivers on the same DMA channel. There are no # other known uses for this option. # # ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR suppresses the I/O address conflict checks, so # that the PS/2 mouse driver doesn't conflict with the console driver. # # ALLOW_CONFLICT_IRQ suppresses the interrupt line conflict checks, so # that multiple devices can share the same IRQ, provided that the # hardware supports it (it usually doesn't). # # ALLOW_CONFLICT_MEMADDR suppresses the memory address conflict checks. # This option is not known to be good for anything. # # AUTO_EOI_1 enables the `automatic EOI' feature for the master 8259A # interrupt controller. This saves about 1.25 usec for each interrupt. # No problems are known to be caused by this option. # # AUTO_EOI_2 enables the `automatic EOI' feature for the slave 8259A # interrupt controller. This saves about 1.25 usec for each interrupt. # Automatic EOI is documented not to work for for the slave with the # original i8259A, but it works for some clones and some integrated # versions. # # BOUNCE_BUFFERS provides support for ISA DMA on machines with more # than 16 megabytes of memory. It doesn't hurt on other machines. # Some broken EISA and VLB hardware may need this, too. # # DUMMY_NOPS disables extra delays for some bus operations. The delays # are mostly for older systems and aren't used consistently. Probably # works OK on most EISA bus machines. # # TUNE_1542 enables the automatic ISA bus speed selection for the # Adaptec 1542 boards. Does not work for all boards, use it with caution. # #options ALLOW_CONFLICT_DRQ #options ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR #options ALLOW_CONFLICT_IRQ #options ALLOW_CONFLICT_MEMADDR options "AUTO_EOI_1" #options "AUTO_EOI_2" options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #options DUMMY_NOPS #options TUNE_1542 # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 options FAT_CURSOR # start with block cursor # The syscons console driver (sco color console compatible) - default. device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # # Options for `sc': # # HARDFONTS allows the driver to load an ISO-8859-1 font to replace # the default font in your display adapter's memory. # options HARDFONTS # # MAXCONS is maximum number of virtual consoles, no more than 16 # default value: 12 # options "MAXCONS=16" device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr # # Optional ISA and EISA devices: # # # SCSI host adapters: `aha', `ahb', `aic', `bt', `nca' # # aha: Adaptec 154x # ahb: Adaptec 174x # ahc: Adaptec 274x/284x/294x # aic: Adaptec 152x and sound cards using the Adaptec AIC-6360 (slow!) # bt: Most Buslogic controllers # nca: ProAudioSpectrum cards using the NCR 5380 or Trantor T130 # uha: UltraStore 14F and 34F # sea: Seagate ST01/02 8 bit controller (slow!) # wds: Western Digital WD7000 controller (no scatter/gather!). # # Note that the order is important in order for Buslogic cards to be # probed correctly. # #controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr #controller ahc0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr # port??? iomem? #controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x1f84 #controller nca2 at isa? port 0x1f8c #controller nca3 at isa? port 0x1e88 #controller nca4 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xdc000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr #controller wds0 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 15 drq 6 vector wdsintr # # ST-506, ESDI, and IDE hard disks: `wdc' and `wd' # # NB: ``Enhanced IDE'' is NOT supported at this time. # #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 # # Standard floppy disk controllers and floppy tapes: `fdc', `fd', and `ft' # controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 #tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 # # Options for `fd': # # FDSEEKWAIT selects a non-default head-settle time (i.e., the time to # wait after a seek is performed). The default value (1/32 s) is # usually sufficient. The units are inverse seconds, so a value of 16 # here means to wait 1/16th of a second; you should choose a power of # two. # options FDSEEKWAIT="16" # # Other standard PC hardware: `lpt', `mse', `psm', `sio', etc. # # lpt: printer port # mse: Logitech and ATI InPort bus mouse ports # psm: PS/2 mouse port (needs ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR, above) # sio: serial ports (see sio(4)) # cy: Cyclades high-speed serial driver (ALPHA QUALITY!) # gp: National Instruments AT-GPIB and AT-GPIB/TNT board # gsc: Genius GS-4500 hand scanner. # joy: joystick device lpt0 at isa? port "IO_LPT3" tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device mse0 at isa? port 0x23c tty irq 5 vector mseintr #device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 12 vector psmintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr #device gp0 at isa? port 0x2c0 tty #device gsc0 at isa? port "IO_GSC1" tty drq 3 #device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" #device cy0 at isa? tty irq 10 iomem 0xd4000 vector cyintr # Options for sio: #options COMCONSOLE #prefer serial console to video console #options COM_MULTIPORT #code for some cards with shared IRQs #options DSI_SOFT_MODEM #code for DSI Softmodems #options BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER #a BREAK on a comconsole goes to #DDB, if available. # # Network interfaces: `cx', `ed', `el', `ep', `ie', `is', `le', `lnc' # # cx: Cronyx/Sigma multiport sync/async (with Cisco or PPP framing) # ed: Western Digital and SMC 80xx; Novell NE1000 and NE2000; 3Com 3C503 # el: 3Com 3C501 (slow!) # ep: 3Com 3C509 (buggy) # fea: DEC DEFEA EISA FDDI adapter # ie: AT&T StarLAN 10 and EN100; 3Com 3C507; unknown NI5210 # le: Digital Equipment EtherWorks 2 and EtherWorks 3 (DEPCA, DE100, # DE101, DE200, DE201, DE202, DE203, DE204, DE205, DE422) # lnc: Lance/PCnet cards (Isolan, Novell NE2100, NE32-VL) # ze: IBM/National Semiconductor PCMCIA ethernet controller. # zp: 3Com PCMCIA Etherlink III (It does not require shared memory for # send/receive operation, but it needs 'iomem' to read/write the # attribute memory) # #device cx0 at isa? port 0x240 net irq 15 drq 7 vector cxintr #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device eg0 at isa? port 0x310 net irq 5 vector egintr #device el0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 9 vector elintr device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device fea0 at isa? net irq ? vector feaintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr # ISDN drivers - `isdn'. # # Uncomment one (and only one) of the following 4 drivers for the appropriate # ISDN device you have. For more information on what's considered appropriate # for your given set of circumstances, please read # /usr/src/gnu/usr.sbin/docs/INSTALL. It's a bit sparse at present, but it's # the best we have right now. The snic driver is also disabled at present, # waiting for someone to upgrade the driver to 2.0 (it's in /sys/gnu/scsi/). # #device nic0 at isa? port "IO_COM3" iomem 0xe0000 tty irq 9 vector nicintr #device nnic0 at isa? port 0x150 iomem 0xe0000 tty irq 12 vector nnicintr # This one is also temporarily ill - needs an isa_device structure!! #controller tel0 at isa? iomem 0xe0000 tty irq 9 vector telintr # These are non-optional for ISDN #pseudo-device isdn #pseudo-device ii 4 #pseudo-device ity 4 #pseudo-device itel 2 #pseudo-device ispy 1 # # Audio drivers: `snd', `pca' # # snd: Voxware sound drivers for various cards # see /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/sound/sound.doc for details # pca: PCM audio through your PC speaker # # SB = SoundBlaster; PAS = ProAudioSpectrum; GUS = Gravis UltraSound # Controls all sound devices controller snd0 # SoundBlaster DSP driver - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS(emulating SB) #device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 vector sbintr # SoundBlaster 16 DSP driver - for SB16 - requires sb0 device #device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 # SoundBlaster 16 MIDI - for SB16 - requires sb0 device #device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 # ProAudioSpectrum PCM and Midi - for PAS #device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 drq 6 vector pasintr # Gravis UltraSound - for GUS, GUS16, GUSMAX #device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 11 drq 1 vector gusintr # Gravis UltraSound 16 bit option - for GUS16 - requires gus0 #device gusxvi0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 7 drq 3 vector adintr # Gravis UltraSound MAX - for GUSMAX - requires gus0 #device gusmax0 at isa? port 0x32c # MS Sound System #device mss0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 10 drq 1 vector adintr # Yamaha OPL-2/OPL-3 FM - for SB, SB Pro, SB16, PAS #device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 # MPU-401 - for MPU-401 standalone card #device mpu0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 6 drq 0 # 6850 UART Midi #device uart0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 5 vector "m6850intr" device pca0 at isa? port IO_TIMER1 tty # # Miscellaneous hardware: `mcd', `wt', `ctx', `apm' # # mcd: Mitsumi CD-ROM # scd: Sony CD-ROM # matcd: Matsushita/Panasonic CD-ROM # wt: Wangtek and Archive QIC-02/QIC-36 tape drives # ctx: Cortex-I frame grabber # apm: Laptop Advanced Power Management (experimental) # spigot: The Creative Labs Video Spigot video-aquisition board # # Notes on the spigot: # The video spigot is at 0xad6. This port address can not be changed. # The irq values may only be 10, 11, or 15 # I/O memory is an 8kb region. Possible values are: # 0a0000, 0a2000, ..., 0fffff, f00000, f02000, ..., ffffff # Note that the start address must be on an even boundary. #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr # for the Sony CDU31/33A CDROM #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio # for the soundblaster 16 multicd - up to 4 devices #controller matcd0 at isa? port ? #controller matcd1 at isa? port ? #controller matcd2 at isa? port ? #controller matcd3 at isa? port ? #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device ctx0 at isa? port 0x230 iomem 0xd0000 #device spigot0 at isa? port 0xad6 irq 15 iomem 0xee000 vector spigintr #device apm0 at isa? # # PCI devices: # # The main PCI bus device is `pci'. It provides auto-detection and # configuration support for all devices on the PCI bus, using either # configuration mode defined in the PCI specification. # # The `ncr' device provides support for the NCR 53C810 and 53C825 # self-contained SCSI host adapters. # # The `de' device provides support for the Digital Equipment DC21040 # self-contained Ethernet adapter. # # The `fpa' device provides support for the Digital DEFPA PCI FDDI # adapter. pseudo-device fddi is also needed. # # The PROBE_VERBOSE option enables a long listing of chip set registers # for supported PCI chip sets (currently only intel Saturn and Mercury). # controller pci0 #device ncr0 #device de0 #device fpa0 options PROBE_VERBOSE ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 01:01:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA02485 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:01:59 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA02474 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:01:47 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA09392 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:01:33 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA06819 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:01:32 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504280801.KAA06819@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: WHere is the fixit floppy? To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:01:32 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504280204.TAA20839@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 27, 95 07:04:32 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 220 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > (lookig high and low) freefall:/incoming/fixit_floppy (anonymous) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 01:09:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA02709 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:09:44 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA02703 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:09:34 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA09496 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:09:27 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA06860 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:09:27 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504280809.KAA06860@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org (Anthony Graphics) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:09:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 28, 95 09:51:04 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 620 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > That's nice. Ok, is there any way to use getty with modem in > the command mode (i.e. ATS=3D0 and wait for "RING") so that it won't > pick up the phone when the system is down or shan't I be doing it? You don't want to do that really. You'd have to open /dev/cuaa0 as dialin device and it would defeat the purpose of bidirectionnal ports. Anyway, if DTR is down (AT&C1&D2) your modem even in auto-answer should not pick up the line. > >=20 I hate quoted-printable :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 01:55:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA04057 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:55:22 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA04046 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 01:54:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:52:12 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199504280809.KAA06860@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 28 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:09:26 +0200 (MET DST) > From: Ollivier Robert > To: Anthony Graphics > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org > Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? > > > That's nice. Ok, is there any way to use getty with modem in > > the command mode (i.e. ATS=3D0 and wait for "RING") so that it won't > > pick up the phone when the system is down or shan't I be doing it? > > You don't want to do that really. You'd have to open /dev/cuaa0 as > dialin device and it would defeat the purpose of bidirectionnal > ports. Anyway, if DTR is down (AT&C1&D2) your modem even in auto-answer > should not pick up the line. > > > >=20 Ok, now I see you guys do not like to put the modem into command mode, well then, what's are the options telling getty to hangup if the user has not logged in withing say 70 seconds? Another problem: getty on ZyXEL immediately calls login :~-( > > I hate quoted-printable :-) I hate it too, but it somehow makes its way into the outgoing mail ;-) I guess it's an occassional cyrillic character AGL > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 05:55:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA12601 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 05:55:48 -0700 Received: from tmpil001.tmp.allied.com (tmpil001.tmp.allied.com [198.80.19.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA12568 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 05:54:25 -0700 Received: from venus.batc.allied.com by tmpil001.tmp.allied.com with SMTP id AA15329 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0); Fri, 28 Apr 1995 05:54:20 -0700 Received: from curly.allied.com (curly.batc.allied.com) by venus.batc.allied.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07112; Fri, 28 Apr 95 08:55:30 EDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 08:55:30 EDT From: tom@batc.allied.com (Tom Roden) Message-Id: <9504281255.AA07112@venus.batc.allied.com> To: questions@FreeBSD.org, waarbau@super.org Subject: Re: 0412 SNAP install hangs after 'changing root device ...' Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings, Thanks to one and all for the help. The problem disappears if you disable ie0. It apparently has a conflict with the 3c509 but it's not obvious to me what the conflict is. It would be good to know which driver the problem is in (or are they just incompatible). Can we rebuild the kernel with either a newer or an old driver? Regards, Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 06:24:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA13383 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 06:24:00 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA13377 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 06:23:57 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09189; Fri, 28 Apr 95 13:23:26 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA18214; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:23:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:23:52 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504281323.AA18214@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA178375432; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:23:52 -0600 To: agl@mac.glas.apc.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Anthony Graphics on Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:51:04 +0400 (GMT+0400)) Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony Graphics writes: Anthony> /usr/libexec/getty loads the NVRAM profile with ATZ? What Anthony> is not clear is: what would happen if NVRAM'd get lost or Anthony> corrupted someshow? Could I init the modem from the batch Anthony> file (well, something that has the same effect as Anthony> /etc/default/uu*S? in gettyps) ? I suppose I could, but Anthony> what is the proper tool to do this? Kermit or chat from Anthony> pppd-2.1.2c package? Or even expect version 5.14. But I imagine echo or cat > /dev/cuaXX would be more than enough. You could put these commands in your rc files and have your machine set the proper settings on each bootup. Anthony> That's nice. Ok, is there any way to use getty with modem Anthony> in the command mode (i.e. ATS=3D0 and wait for "RING") so Anthony> that it won't pick up the phone when the system is down Anthony> or shan't I be doing it? Sure. Make certain that AT&D2 or AT&D3 (whatever your modem supports) is also in your modem's default NVRAM settings. This should tell your modem to pay attention to the DTR signal (and also reset and hangup the phone when DTR goes from on to off). When your system's down, DTR should be off, and your modem shouldn't answer the phone. Anthony> Still it resembles a bit Intaractive in the dialin part :^) Euyuck! I thought I worked at the last site that still had Interactive systems ... with the old Kodak logo on the manuals. :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA I bet when the Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would always end up saying, "Don't forget the thick, heavy brows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky brows too, and they'd get mad and eat the snowman. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 06:52:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14006 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 06:52:31 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14000 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 06:52:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:50:44 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <9504281323.AA18214@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So far I've made myself through: ZyXEL picks up the phone and I'm getting CONNECT 2400 and no login :-((( here's the relevant line from /etc/tty ttyd1 "/usr/libexec/getty zyxel.38400" dialup on insecure and this one from /etc/gettytab U|zyxel.38400|zyxel-38400:\ :cb:ce:ck:sp#38400:ap:cs#8:xa:np:hw:ig:lc:\ :if=/etc/issue.modem:\ :im=\r\n\r\nREDLINE relay\r\n\ :lm=\r\n%h login\72:lo=/usr/local/bin/ts:to=50: (/usr/local/bin/ts is doing rlogin mainhost -l $* in fact, but I get no login prompt even with lo= option omitted) That'sn the place I was ending up so often in isc :^) SY, AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 07:07:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA14266 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:07:08 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA14253 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:06:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:05:22 +0400 (GMT+0400) From: Anthony Graphics X-Sender: agl@mail.redline.ru To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Serial: forgot to include stty -a output for the line in question, Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk here it is (with 16550A chipset, a regular COM2 in dos's terms): speed 38400 baud; 0 rows; 0 columns; lflags: -icanon -isig -iexten -echo -echoe -echok -echoke -echonl -echoctl -echoprt -altwerase -noflsh -tostop -flusho -pendin -nokerninfo -extproc iflags: -istrip -icrnl -inlcr -igncr -ixon -ixoff -ixany -imaxbel -ignbrk -brkint -inpck -ignpar -parmrk oflags: -opost -onlcr -oxtabs cflags: cread cs8 -parenb -parodd hupcl -clocal -cstopb crtscts -mdmbuf ^^^^^^^ Should I enable this? cchars: discard = ^O; dsusp = ^Y; eof = ^D; eol = ; eol2 = ; erase = ^?; intr = ^C; kill = ^U; lnext = ^V; min = 1; quit = ^\; reprint = ^R; start = ^Q; status = ; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; time = 0; werase = ^W; From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 07:56:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA15512 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:56:27 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA15506 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:56:24 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id JAA01401 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:56:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:56:10 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504281456.JAA01401@plains.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: N. Cal.: FreeBSD party Content-Length: 45 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk is said party going to be on MBONE? --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 08:09:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA16059 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:09:34 -0700 Received: from dearnpc.gmd.de (dearnpc.gmd.de [192.76.247.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA16052 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199504281509.IAA16052@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from vm.gmd.de by dearnpc.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 33DC5998 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:08:53 +0200 Received: from VM.GMD.DE by vm.gmd.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4923; Fri, 28 Apr 95 17:03:12 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3960; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:03:12 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2662; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:03:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 17:01:14 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: xntpd patches for DCF77 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As previously announced I have finally put xntpd.diffs.tar.gz.README and xntpd.diffs.tar.gz in "incoming" on ftp.freebsd.org. Ciao, Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 08:44:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA16735 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:44:11 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA16728 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:44:08 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA01908; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:40:17 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504281440.KAA01908@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: root@morton.cdrom.com (Charlie &) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504272052.NAA17431@morton.cdrom.com> from "Charlie &" at Apr 27, 95 01:52:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1845 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Charlie & person (who is really jkh in disguise) was kidding when he wrote: > Is a dialog based kernel configuration utility! Grrr.... You know what *I'd* really like to see for 2.0.5? I'd like to see the FreeBSD install program offer me the option of choosing my own custom newfs options. For each filesystem. What would also be keen is if it allowed me to add NFS filesystems to the /etc/fstab file (with user-configureable mount options). The Solaris 2.x install does this. It even offers to verify the mounts for you. If you're real lucky, it'll actually work. Of course, this assumes that the install will properly configure your machine for network operation first, *and* save the parameters correctly. Having an NIS client configuration in the install would be nice too. This should be as easy as setting the value for defaultdomain in /etc/sysconfig or, as I sometimes feel compelled to think of it, freebsd.ini. >:) (Note that NIS server configuration is a tad bit too hairy to do correctly at install time. Best to leave it until the system is running multiuser.) And while I'm busting your chops over this, does the install still demand that a /usr filesystem be created before it'll proceed, even if the user doesn't want one? > Jordan -Bill, donning his asbestos pointy hat. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 09:15:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA17319 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:15:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17310 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:15:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06308; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:14:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "House of Debuggin'" cc: root@morton.cdrom.com (Charlie &), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:40:14 EDT." <199504281440.KAA01908@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:13:59 -0700 Message-ID: <6306.799085639@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Grrr.... You know what *I'd* really like to see for 2.0.5? I'd like to > see the FreeBSD install program offer me the option of choosing my own > custom newfs options. > > For each filesystem. I'll think about it.. :-) > What would also be keen is if it allowed me to add NFS filesystems to > the /etc/fstab file (with user-configureable mount options). The Solaris 2.x > install does this. It even offers to verify the mounts for you. If you're > real lucky, it'll actually work. Not until 2.1. > Of course, this assumes that the install will properly configure your > machine for network operation first, *and* save the parameters correctly. Hopefully that much will work. The new sysconfig stuff makes it considerably easier! > Having an NIS client configuration in the install would be nice too. > This should be as easy as setting the value for defaultdomain in > /etc/sysconfig or, as I sometimes feel compelled to think of it, > freebsd.ini. >:) Who in their right mind would want to use NIS? I mean.. Oh, wait, that's right.. You have something to do with our NIS support.. As I was saying, that's an excellent idea! :-) [Note to the sarcasm impaired: Bill *is* our NIS support! :-)] Seriously though, I can put in a question for setting up the NIS domain in `freebsd.ini' (laugh while you can, monkey boy, there will be a REAL freebsd.ini for the DOS boot stuff! :-). I will do so. > (Note that NIS server configuration is a tad bit too hairy to do > correctly at install time. Best to leave it until the system is > running multiuser.) Fine.. :) > And while I'm busting your chops over this, does the install still > demand that a /usr filesystem be created before it'll proceed, even > if the user doesn't want one? It won't demand it if it can find enough space in / for everything you wanted. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 09:43:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA18182 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:43:59 -0700 Received: from nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (nm0024.nmso.nm.blm.gov [158.68.160.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA18176 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:43:57 -0700 Received: by nm0039.nmso.nm.blm.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA29035; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:44:00 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:44:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Chris Olsen Reply-To: colsen@pdsinc.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <1227.799043184@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > When would you need this by? I have started playing with libdialog for > > some other stuff and I think this would be pretty straight forward. Do > > you want it to cover ALL config options or just the most common? > > I'd need it by Wednesday at the absolute latest and I don't know if > ALL the options are necessary, though it'd be nice. I'd certainly > settle for just the most common ones! > > Once it's generated the user's config file, it should then offer to > build and then (optionally) install it, also giving the user helpful > hints about booting with /kernel.old in case of trouble. > > Oh yes, it should also mention the `-c' flag as an alternative to > configuring the kernel at all before you start.. Now that we have > dset working, the -c changes are permanant and a definite alternative > to compiling up a whole new kernel. > > Thanks! > Jordan > I will work on it this weekend and send you the stuff on monday. You can review it and let me know what problems you find. ------------------------------ | Christopher Bryan Olsen | | Productive Data Systems | | colsen@pdsinc.com | | (505) 438-7812 | ------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 11:31:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA20485 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:31:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA20476 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:31:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Tinguely cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: N. Cal.: FreeBSD party In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 95 09:56:10 CDT." <199504281456.JAA01401@plains.nodak.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <20475.799093901@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504281456.JAA01401@plains.nodak.edu>, Mark Tinguely writes: >is said party going to be on MBONE? Ha Ha Ha You willing to pay for the necessary bandwidth to be installed for one day? :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 11:50:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21051 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:50:34 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21044 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:50:31 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id NAA15240; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:50:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:50:08 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504281850.NAA15240@plains.nodak.edu> To: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: N. Cal.: FreeBSD party Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Length: 362 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199504281456.JAA01401@plains.nodak.edu>, Mark Tinguely writes: > >is said party going to be on MBONE? > > Ha Ha Ha > > You willing to pay for the necessary bandwidth to be installed for one day? :-) > > Gary > I thought all the "beautiful people" in California have ISDN or T1/3 to their ranch homes. Oh another myth broken. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 11:58:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA21223 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:58:27 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21215 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:58:24 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA21802; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:57:59 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504281857.LAA21802@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: N. Cal.: FreeBSD party To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: gpalmer@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504281850.NAA15240@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Apr 28, 95 01:50:08 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 416 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I thought all the "beautiful people" in California have ISDN or T1/3 to their > ranch homes. Oh another myth broken. Oh, we do, but our SO's are so busy shopping on the information highway that there is hardly any bandwidth left... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 12:24:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22448 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:24:09 -0700 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA22441 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:24:03 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA07277; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:23:32 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA11679; Fri, 28 Apr 95 14:23:42 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9504281923.AA11679@olympus> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:23:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6306.799085639@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 09:13:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 827 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > What would also be keen is if it allowed me to add NFS filesystems to > > the /etc/fstab file (with user-configureable mount options). The Solaris 2.x > > install does this. It even offers to verify the mounts for you. If you're > > real lucky, it'll actually work. > > Not until 2.1. > As long as we are incorporating System V, let's get my favorite. I would like to see a binary flag that controls whether the partition mounts with the -a option. I don't always want the cdrom to mount. Still then the mount point is defined so you can say mount /cdrom and it does. > Jordan > Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner faulkner@isd.tandem.com _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 12:28:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22642 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:28:08 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22619 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:27:44 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13385; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:27:03 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25169; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:27:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA00546; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:21:30 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504281921.VAA00546@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: WHere is the fixit floppy? To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:21:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504280801.KAA06819@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Apr 28, 95 10:01:32 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 412 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > (lookig high and low) > > freefall:/incoming/fixit_floppy (anonymous) This reminds me one thing (Jordan? David?): Wouldn't it be possible to open the ~ftp/incoming dir for reading by those who have an account on freefall (perhaps by using an additional group for all of us)? I accept that it should be invisible to anon ftp users, but it's sometimes useful for us being able to look there. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 12:30:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22784 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:30:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22769 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:30:48 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13345; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:26:49 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25139 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:26:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id UAA00307 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:20:16 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504281820.UAA00307@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:20:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 28, 95 09:51:04 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1572 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From what I understand I should initiate the modem once with either > tip or cu and then AT&W. So, /usr/libexec/getty loads the NVRAM profile > with ATZ? What is not clear is: what would happen if NVRAM'd get lost > or corrupted someshow? Could I init the modem from the batch file The NVRAM should never be corrupted except by user action. Anyway good modems are able to perform the equivalent of ATZ at a DTR drop. I've seen it at least on a Hayes Optima. Note that every close of the device causes a DTR drop under Unix, so this is indeed a nice way to reset the modem to its defaults. As Ollivier also remarked, decent modems don't pick up the phone line if they miss DTR. Alas, alot of modems are broken in this field. > (WEll, something that has the same effect as /etc/default/uu*S? in gettyps) > ? I suppose I could, but what is the proper tool to do this? Kermit or > chat from pppd-2.1.2c package? chat might be worth a try, i think it's fairly easy (but misses a man page). Btw., it's in the system by default, you don't need a package for it. Kermit in connection with some script might also do it. > Hmm, I tried mgetty under linux but I still can't get into one thing: > is there any way to use this stuff in the system with zoo of modems > of different type, init strings are hardwired, right? Sorry, i don't have an idea. I'm using mgetty only as a workaround for my broken modem, and as soon as i've got a better modem, be sure: i will go back to the regular getty. Joerg (without the umlaut, since i also hate quoted-printable replies :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 12:34:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22856 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:34:13 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22849 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:34:10 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA22870; Fri, 28 Apr 95 13:27:35 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504281927.AA22870@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: NCR SCSI failure (failure to convert linux user) To: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 13:27:34 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 28, 95 00:29:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > here is the error message from the FreeBSD NCR driver.. > it failed badly.. linux runs on this device ok (but slow) Maybe the Linux driver is using programmed I/O. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:11:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23752 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:11:19 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23740 for hackers; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:11:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:11:14 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504282011.NAA23740@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: amazingly annoying Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How come I have NEVER in hte year or so I've been on it, NEVER found what I'm looking for on freefall. I ALWAYS end up having to ftp to wcarchive as anon and getting tons of stuff I don't want just so I can look at the single file I want.. don't we keep the packages sources here SOMEWHERE? and couldn't there be some sort of F*cking index on this system? (or even a /packages or /ports-unpacked symlink).. ports is pretty much useless most of the time because they never ftp the stuff over correctly especially if you're on thud or freefall. can't we keep these things unpacked and populated somewhere? julian (just wasted another 30 minutes doing 'find' on freefall AGAIN geeze you'd think I'd have learned by now that there is nothing useful here) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:12:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23790 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:12:55 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA23773 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:12:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14348; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:11:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA25565 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:11:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA00754 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:50:08 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504281950.VAA00754@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:50:05 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6306.799085639@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 09:13:59 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 502 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Seriously though, I can put in a question for setting up the NIS domain > in `freebsd.ini' (laugh while you can, monkey boy, there will be a REAL > freebsd.ini for the DOS boot stuff! :-). I will do so. dosboot? freebsd.ini? WINBOOT! WINBOOT! :-) "Ihre Anwendung hat soeben eine unerwartete Schutzverletzung begangen!" :-) (Sorry, i've never seen an english version of windoze, so i don't know the exact english text of this most-loved windoze error message about the #GP exception... ) Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:12:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23781 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:12:42 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA23771 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:12:07 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14343; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:11:02 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA25562 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:11:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by jette.heep.sax.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id VAA00736 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:45:15 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504281945.VAA00736@jette.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Is there any FAQ on thge serial in FreeBSD? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:45:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 28, 95 05:50:44 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 325 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > So far I've made myself through: ZyXEL picks up the phone and > I'm getting CONNECT 2400 > and no login :-((( Did you remember to tell your zyxel to stay at a fixed DTR speed of 38400 bps? It would otherwise connect with the line speed, 2400 bps in this case. Not very good if your getty is running @ 38400. Jörg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:19:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23980 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:19:26 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23969 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:19:17 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA07148; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:16:33 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504282016.NAA07148@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: amazingly annoying To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504282011.NAA23740@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 28, 95 01:11:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1095 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How come I have NEVER in hte year or so I've been on it, > NEVER found what I'm looking for on freefall. > I ALWAYS end up having to ftp to wcarchive as anon > and getting tons of stuff I don't want > just so I can look at the single file I want.. > > don't we keep the packages sources here SOMEWHERE? > and couldn't there be some sort of F*cking index on this system? > (or even a /packages or /ports-unpacked symlink).. > ports is pretty much useless most of the time because they never ftp > the stuff over correctly especially if you're on thud > or freefall. > > can't we keep these things unpacked and populated somewhere? > > julian > (just wasted another 30 minutes doing 'find' on freefall AGAIN > geeze you'd think I'd have learned by now that there is nothing useful here) You should use locate instead of find, it is 10000 times faster and should be rebuilding the database once a week so it is pretty up to date. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:37:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA24551 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:37:32 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA24544 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:37:21 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA22198 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:37:17 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504282037.NAA22198@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199504281950.VAA00754@jette.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 28, 95 09:50:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 703 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Seriously though, I can put in a question for setting up the NIS domain > > in `freebsd.ini' (laugh while you can, monkey boy, there will be a REAL > > freebsd.ini for the DOS boot stuff! :-). I will do so. > > dosboot? freebsd.ini? > > WINBOOT! WINBOOT! :-) > > "Ihre Anwendung hat soeben eine unerwartete Schutzverletzung begangen!" > :-) > Before joking, have you actually tried fbsdboot.exe under win ? It might work, Christian does a lot of fiddling with weird protected mode interfaces/memory manglers... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 13:48:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA24842 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:48:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA24832 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:48:19 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA23269; Fri, 28 Apr 95 14:41:08 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504282041.AA23269@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 14:41:07 MDT Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504281923.AA11679@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Apr 28, 95 02:23:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As long as we are incorporating System V, let's get my favorite. I would > like to see a binary flag that controls whether the partition mounts with > the -a option. I don't always want the cdrom to mount. Still then the > mount point is defined so you can say mount /cdrom and it does. I really like /etc/vfstab. It has a lot of neat things going for it. Doubled device names that could be derived using strtok() isn'r one of them, but the other stuff is at least OK if not downright clever in some cases. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 14:29:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA25747 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:29:48 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25741 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:29:42 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA05017; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:32:35 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:32:35 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504282132.PAA05017@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: J Wunsch "Re: WHere is the fixit floppy?" (Apr 28, 9:21pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Subject: Re: WHere is the fixit floppy? Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Wouldn't it be possible to open the ~ftp/incoming dir for reading > by those who have an account on freefall (perhaps by using an > additional group for all of us)? I accept that it should be > invisible to anon ftp users, but it's sometimes useful for us > being able to look there. Sure, login as your account name rather than as anonymous and cd to ~ftp/incoming. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 14:32:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA25783 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:32:03 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25777 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:31:57 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA05063; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:36:17 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:36:17 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504282136.PAA05063@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Julian Elischer "amazingly annoying" (Apr 28, 1:11pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Julian Elischer , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: amazingly annoying Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (just wasted another 30 minutes doing 'find' on freefall AGAIN > geeze you'd think I'd have learned by now that there is nothing useful here) 'locate' is your friend. Since we run a find on all the directories every night which caches the information on what's available on freefall, at most you are 24 hours out of date with the files on freefall. Instead of 'find / -name foo'*' -print' you can do a 'locate foo | more' which does the same thing. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 15:43:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA27816 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:43:12 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA27805 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:43:07 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18175; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:42:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA26348 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:42:27 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA02179 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:40:50 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504282240.AAA02179@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: WHere is the fixit floppy? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:40:49 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504282132.PAA05017@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 28, 95 03:32:35 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 910 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be possible to open the ~ftp/incoming dir for reading > > by those who have an account on freefall (perhaps by using an > > additional group for all of us)? I accept that it should be > > invisible to anon ftp users, but it's sometimes useful for us > > being able to look there. > > Sure, login as your account name rather than as anonymous and cd to > ~ftp/incoming. Don't think this would work: j@uriah 87% rsh -l joerg freefall.cdrom.com ls -ld \~ftp/\* ... drwxrwx-wx 13 root ftp-Free 2048 Apr 28 00:14 /home/ftp/incoming ... j@uriah 91% rsh -l joerg freefall.cdrom.com id uid=548(joerg) gid=548(joerg) groups=548(joerg), 518(cvs), 523(ports), 552(ncvs) I cannot see how i'd get ftp-Free group permissions. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 15:45:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA27903 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:45:47 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA27897 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:45:42 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18257; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:45:15 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA26363 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:45:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA02366 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:44:23 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504282244.AAA02366@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:44:21 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504282037.NAA22198@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 28, 95 01:37:17 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 537 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > WINBOOT! WINBOOT! :-) ... > > > Before joking, have you actually tried fbsdboot.exe under win ? > It might work, Christian does a lot of fiddling with weird protected > mode interfaces/memory manglers... Nope (i wouldn't even know where to get a windoze from), i was really only joking, and this was in no way an attempt to offend Christian and his work! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 15:56:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA28179 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:56:36 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-3-191.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.191]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA28145 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:55:19 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03844 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:54:08 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com> Subject: Screen print capability To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:54:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1863 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone else out there interested in seeing a screen print capability added to FreeBSD? I've developed something that does this, and would like to see it added to the system, but I thought I would ask for additional input before submitting a final version. I implemented a /dev/screen device with code adapted from subr_log.c (/dev/klog). A daemon process (screend) sits and waits via select until a print screen event is generated. This event is generated by any of the combinations of the print_screen key that currently generate a NOP: shift+print, alt+print, and so on. When the waiting process wakes up, it will read the current screen contents (which can be something from the history buffer if you scroll back and hit the print screen button at that time). When the screen daemon process reads up a screen full of data, it will pipe it to lpr by default. Current options to screend: -d device ("/dev/screen" by default) -p print_command ("lpr" by default) The kdbcontrol command was also modified to understand the new "print" key type in keyboard maps. Current only syscons type consoles are supported. I could add pcvt support if there is enough interest. I'll probably also add an ioctl to allow the daemon process to figure out the current screen size so that the daemon doesn't incorrectly chop up VGA_40x25 lines into 80 column chunks. I've put all of the relevant files in freefall:~mpp/screen if anyone wants to take a peek. Comments/suggestions/questions appreciated. FYI: I named everything "screen*" because that is what the functions do: provide access to the current screen contents. The data doesn't have to be printed, so I didn't try to incorporate "print" anywhere in the file/function names. -Mike -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 16:10:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA28380 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:10:00 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA28372 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:09:57 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14503; Fri, 28 Apr 95 23:09:17 GMT Received: from junco.fsl.noaa.gov by yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA24219; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:09:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:09:19 -0400 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504282309.AA24219@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.37.109.16/SMI-4.1 (1.37.109.16)) id AA200390559; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:09:19 -0600 To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504281923.AA11679@olympus> (faulkner@mpd.tandem.com) Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Boyd" == Boyd Faulkner writes: Boyd> I would like to see a binary flag that controls whether the Boyd> partition mounts with the -a option. As System-V--bigoted as I am, I grudgingly admit that I miss feature from my System V days---short though they were. By the way: did we ever get a -a option in ifconfig? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In Paradox: Not only can you shoot yourself in the foot, your users can, too. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 17:00:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA29409 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:00:15 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA29402 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:00:11 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA11541; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:58:50 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504282358.TAA11541@hda.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:58:50 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199504281950.VAA00754@jette.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 28, 95 09:50:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 702 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > > Seriously though, I can put in a question for setting up the NIS domain > > in `freebsd.ini' (laugh while you can, monkey boy, there will be a REAL > > freebsd.ini for the DOS boot stuff! :-). I will do so. > > dosboot? freebsd.ini? > > WINBOOT! WINBOOT! :-) > > "Ihre Anwendung hat soeben eine unerwartete Schutzverletzung begangen!" > :-) > Ich denke, dass es nur "Exception 13: General Protection Fault" auf Englisch ist. Du hasst es viel besser auf Deutsch. (Ach, wo ist der "Es-tset"?) Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 17:31:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA29946 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:31:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA29932 ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:31:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 95 19:09:19 EDT." <9504282309.AA24219@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:31:19 -0700 Message-ID: <29931.799115479@freefall.cdrom.com> From: Gary Palmer (FreeBSD/ARM Team) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504282309.AA24219@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov>, Sean Kelly writes: >By the way: did we ever get a -a option in ifconfig? gpalmer@freefall:~> ifconfig -a ed0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 inet 192.216.222.4 netmask 0xfffffff0 broadcast 192.216.222.15 lo0: flags=8009 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 Yep :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 19:19:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA03478 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:19:29 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (root@efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA03471 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:19:22 -0700 Received: from unix.nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA13681; Fri, 28 Apr 95 19:19:11 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:25:04 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@unix.nike.efn.org To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: qic tape formating Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I remeber reading a message about software that will support formatting qic tapes under FreeBSD... at the time I didn't have the tape drive working (didn't have flags 0x1 on fdc) and am interested in testing the software... just so you know... I am running 2.0-RELEASE... and have a unlabeled tape drive (reports as Colorado tape)... also... I'm not sure what it supports... but I do know that it successfully wrote to a 120meg uncompressed tape... Thanks for the info... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 20:06:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA04908 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:06:10 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA04902 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 20:06:03 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA02751; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:02:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:02:48 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504290202.WAA02751@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, root@morton.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Sean Kelly person was kidding when he wrote: > By the way: did we ever get a -a option in ifconfig? Not only did I put in a -a flag, I also added a -ad flag and a -au flag (-ad for all down interfaces and -au for all up interfaces). I even documented them in the man page. > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In Paradox: Not only can you shoot > yourself in the foot, your users can, too. Oh, one thing while I'm here: I was mistaken when I said you only have to edit the defaultdomain setting in /etc/sysconfig to activate NIS. You also need to change the nis_clientflags from "NO" to something other than "NO". I recommend "-s" to run ypbind in secure mode. Also, here's a short story for you. Yesterday, the UPS guy dropped off three Intel Pentium 90mhz (EISA) systems for the Image lab. Seems Intel actually donated the buggers to us. I later discovered that, as with the Gateway 2000 Pentiums that they Image lab purchased recently, they were meant to be used with some sort of MPEG endoder/decoder hardware for one of their projects. (I think they're trying to show that they can use PCs as video on demand clients just as easily as you could a workstation, with the difference being that PCs tend to be much cheaper.) They also purchased ATI Mach64 PCI video adapters (I'm a bit confused by this since the machines have on-board graphics -- i think they want them for the feature connector.) The machines are completely EISA (no PCI, no local bus), with Adaptec 2740T Twin Channel SCSI controllers (AIC-7770), 16 megs of RAM, on-board Western Digital SVGA display hardware, Intel EtherExpress 16 network adapters and Seagate 1 GB drives. Oh, and PS/2 bus meeses. On the whole, they're very nice machines. There's just one problem, which you may have already divined: the machines have no PCI slots, whereas the MPEG cards and video adapters are PCI devices. That's planning for you. I don't think they make EISA versions of the MPEG boards (they make a VESA version, but that too won't work), so I strongly suspect the machines will be going back. ("Hello, Intel? Remember those 3 Pentium machines you sort of gave us? Uhm, well...") Anyway, before I found this out, I'd managed to start installing FreeBSD on one of them to see how it liked the hardware. I had the April 12th snap floppies handy so I used those for the install. I later built a kernel from -current. (This I did largely because I couldn't get the Crynwr packet driver for the EtherExpress 16 to initialize the ethernet adapter, which left me without a way to hook it to the network.) Along the way I made the following observations: - The Intel EtherExpress is very often misidentified by other drivers (I set mine to 0x300, irq 10, iomem 0xd0000 to match the GENERIC kernel settings. Yes, I know I could have used -c to change the settings.) The Mitsumi CD-ROM driver tripped over it twice. Once it was wrongly identified as a Wangtek tape controller. I don't blame anyone for this other than Intel. - The 'dset' stuff actually came in *very* handy here, as it saved me the trouble of having to disable the Mitsumi and Wangtek drivers at each reboot (ditto the matcd driver, which was buggy in this SNAP and spammed me with messages when the GENERIC kernel came up). - When it was correctly identified as ix0, the EtherExpress worked great with FreeBSD. (Rod: I hope BPF support for the ix driver is not too far off.) - The printf()s from the slicing code irritate the hell out of me: sd0s4: type 0xa5, start 32, end = 2061107, size 2061076 sd0s4: C/H/S start 0/1/1 (20) != start 32: invalid sd0s4: C/H/S end 1006/25/20 (523639) != end 2061107: invalid sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice sd0: start 32, end 2061107, size 2061076 sd0d: start 0, end 2061107, size 2061108 [same thing repeated 2 more times] I installed FreeBSD on slice four, using the default values provided by the install program. In spite of these ominous warnings, the system seems to work fine. I think I know what it's telling me, but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with the thing now that I have it working. Regardless, I have this terrible urge to sweep this all under bootverbose. - The SCSI disk probe messages also irritate the hell out of me: ahc0: reading board settings ahc0: 274x Twin Channel, A SCSI Id=7, B SCSI Id=7, aic7770 >= Rev E, 16 SCBs ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 (ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 9022" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) I'd rather see something like: ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 aha0: ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 sd0 at ahc0 target 0 unit 0 sd0: (1006MB, 2061108 512 byte sectors) (Everything else should probably also be hidden under bootverbose.) The latter strikes me as more consistent and more BSDish. (We are still BSD, right? ;) I may be overly critical here, but the last time I saw a Linux box boot, I was stunned by the jumble of inconsistent probe messages that it generated. Every driver author seemed to have his own idea of what the probe messages should look like, and I hated all of them. - When I tried to 'wire down' sd0, sd1 and cd0 in my new kernel config, the system panicked when it went to probe channel B of the 2740T. The messages I got were: ahc0: Probing Channel B extend_set: entry 0 already has storage panic: scsi_attachdevs: malloc Exactly how does the ahc driver handle the other channel? If ahc0:0:0 on channel A is sd0, what does that make ahc0:0:0 on channel B? Maybe I should be disabling channel B since I have no devices on it? - I discovered another NIS-related bug in /usr/src/lib/libc/getgrent.c. This is my problem though, and one that I'll be hacking on shortly. Briefly, the +:*: line is falsely identified by getgrgid() as being an entry for GID 0. This is bogus. You can work around it if you're clever, but I also found another null pointer dereference condition that needs to be fixed. I saw some glitches in the install, but these have already been reported so I won't bother rehashing them. Once I got FreeBSD up, it ran like a top. I brought up X on the WD90Cxx SVGA display in 1024x768x8 and it looks superb (there's only 1 meg of video memory, unfortunately) not to mention pretty darn snappy. Snappier even than the SPARC 5 with the microSPARC 85Mhz CPU and Solaris 2.3 sitting a few tables away in the lab. The SPARC has double the RAM and swap space of the Intel machine too. *sigh* -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ # # NAKEDGUN -- Generic machine with AHx family disks # machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident NAKEDGUN maxusers 20 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=5" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR # PS/2 mouse lossage config kernel swap generic # Am I the only one who uses this? controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device psm0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 12 vector psmintr controller ahc0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahcintr controller scbus0 at ahc0 # config complains without this disk sd0 at scbus0 target 0 unit 0 disk sd1 at scbus0 target 1 unit 0 device cd0 at scbus0 target 6 unit 0 # Is this legal? device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device speaker pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:17:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08538 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:17:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08532 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:17:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11054; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:16:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "House of Debuggin'" cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org, root@morton.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:02:48 EDT." <199504290202.WAA02751@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:16:42 -0700 Message-ID: <11052.799132602@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh, one thing while I'm here: I was mistaken when I said you only > have to edit the defaultdomain setting in /etc/sysconfig to activate > NIS. You also need to change the nis_clientflags from "NO" to something > other than "NO". I recommend "-s" to run ypbind in secure mode. I will do this, thanks. > - The printf()s from the slicing code irritate the hell out of me: You're not alone.. :-) These should be going away soon. > - The SCSI disk probe messages also irritate the hell out of me: All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only the things it did since the "fnob0: not found" messages just obscure the messages I'm really looking for (or cause them to scroll off the screen). Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority here as a number of other folks say that they like all that "extra diagnostic information." I say fiddlesticks, and it's time to make the -v flag earn its keep. FreeBSD should either shut up entirely or spew loads of stuff at you if you boot with -v. Anyone of a mind to go on a little boot message reform rampage? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:26:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08636 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:26:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08630 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:26:19 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA23948; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:25:51 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504290525.WAA23948@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org, root@morton.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11052.799132602@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 10:16:42 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1276 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > the things it did since the "fnob0: not found" messages just obscure > the messages I'm really looking for (or cause them to scroll off the > screen). Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority here as a number > of other folks say that they like all that "extra diagnostic information." With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. Lets kill them now. > I say fiddlesticks, and it's time to make the -v flag earn its keep. > FreeBSD should either shut up entirely or spew loads of stuff at you > if you boot with -v. Not "shut up entirely". We want it to tell us what if found. By maybe just the "found" messages should be printed as default. All the "X Mb/s MAC-address-" kind of stuff can die for all I care. > Anyone of a mind to go on a little boot message reform rampage? yes please. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:29:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08678 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:29:49 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08672 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:29:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11201; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:29:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org, root@morton.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:25:50 PDT." <199504290525.WAA23948@ref.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:29:25 -0700 Message-ID: <11199.799133365@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use > userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. > > Lets kill them now. If no one else argues vehemently, I say we should go for it. > Not "shut up entirely". We want it to tell us what if found. > By maybe just the "found" messages should be printed as default. > All the "X Mb/s MAC-address-" kind of stuff can die for all I care. Sorry, I meant "shut up entirely for not-found stuff" - I didn't meant to imply that you should sit there looking at a blank screen for about 60 seconds and then get a login prompt.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:31:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08709 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:31:19 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08702 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:31:10 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA29501; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 06:31:50 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504290531.GAA29501@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Screen print capability To: mpp@mpp.com (Mike Pritchard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 06:31:50 +0100 (BST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Apr 28, 95 05:54:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 805 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Mike Pritchard who said > > Is anyone else out there interested in seeing a screen print capability > added to FreeBSD? I've developed something that does this, and would > like to see it added to the system, but I thought I would ask for > additional input before submitting a final version. > > I implemented a /dev/screen device with code adapted from subr_log.c > (/dev/klog). A daemon process (screend) sits and waits via select until There's already a well known screend out there. Rename it to something else. I like the idea though. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:33:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08761 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:33:23 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08754 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:33:19 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id XAA06209; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:37:33 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:37:33 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504290537.XAA06209@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199504290525.WAA23948@ref.tfs.com> References: <11052.799132602@time.cdrom.com> <199504290525.WAA23948@ref.tfs.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > > the things it did since.... > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use > userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. > > Lets kill them now. I disagree. On bootup you don't have access to userconfig, and it's a very useful debugging tool to find out what's a kernel's been compiled with to see if you're it's a driver bug or a hardware misconfiguration. > > Anyone of a mind to go on a little boot message reform rampage? > yes please. Please don't until we get other folks who have an opinion on this to speak their mind. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:39:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08864 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:39:40 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08858 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:39:39 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA24041; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:39:26 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504290539.WAA24041@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290537.XAA06209@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 28, 95 11:37:33 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 940 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > > > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > > > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > > > the things it did since.... > > > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use > > userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. > > > > Lets kill them now. > > I disagree. On bootup you don't have access to userconfig, and it's a > very useful debugging tool to find out what's a kernel's been compiled > with to see if you're it's a driver bug or a hardware misconfiguration. Nate are you sleeping ? Have you tried "boot: /kernel -c" lately ??? userconfig IS ONLY available at booup ! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:43:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08912 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:43:09 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08906 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:43:05 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id XAA06260; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:47:16 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:47:16 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504290547.XAA06260@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199504290539.WAA24041@ref.tfs.com> References: <199504290537.XAA06209@trout.sri.MT.net> <199504290539.WAA24041@ref.tfs.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I disagree. On bootup you don't have access to userconfig, and it's a > > very useful debugging tool to find out what's a kernel's been compiled > > with to see if you're it's a driver bug or a hardware misconfiguration. > > Have you tried "boot: /kernel -c" lately ??? > userconfig IS ONLY available at booup ! What I meant was that userconfig assumes the user has knowlege on how it works, so for normal people they don't have 'access' to it. Access was probably a poor choice of word to use. *IF* we are going to use it for all of the kernel device debugging, then it should be better documented before we remove the only useful form we have now. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:47:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09036 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:47:45 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09030 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:47:41 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA02944; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:44:29 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504290444.AAA02944@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11199.799133365@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 10:29:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1501 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Jordan K. Hubbard person was kidding when he wrote: > > > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use > > userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. > > > > Lets kill them now. > > If no one else argues vehemently, I say we should go for it. Yes! Kill them now! Kill them now! (Forgive me if I sound a bit rabid: I've been fighting a pitched battle with the SGI Onyx here at the CTR and it's got me a little on edge. Three unexplained panics in one day will do that to you.) > Sorry, I meant "shut up entirely for not-found stuff" - I didn't > meant to imply that you should sit there looking at a blank screen > for about 60 seconds and then get a login prompt.. :-) > > Jordan Yeah: then it would look just like Solaris, 'cept you'd be waiting longer. :) The funny thing is that Solaris does generate device probe messages that look very much like those from SunOS; it just doesn't show them to you. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 22:52:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09283 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:52:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09277 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:52:04 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA24121; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:51:54 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504290551.WAA24121@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290547.XAA06260@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 28, 95 11:47:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 633 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What I meant was that userconfig assumes the user has knowlege on how it > works, so for normal people they don't have 'access' to it. Access was > probably a poor choice of word to use. *IF* we are going to use it for > all of the kernel device debugging, then it should be better documented > before we remove the only useful form we have now. printf("Use \"boot /kernel -c\" to see what you don't see."); ? :-) Lousy argument in my book... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 23:00:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09917 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:00:27 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09875 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:00:21 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA06300; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:04:37 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:04:37 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504290604.AAA06300@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <199504290551.WAA24121@ref.tfs.com> References: <199504290547.XAA06260@trout.sri.MT.net> <199504290551.WAA24121@ref.tfs.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > printf("Use \"boot /kernel -c\" to see what you don't see."); ? :-) > > Lousy argument in my book... Ah, and that's plenty of documentation for new users. NOT! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 23:24:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA12840 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:24:27 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12834 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:24:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA29018; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:22:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199504290622.XAA29018@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "House of Debuggin'" cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, root@morton.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:02:48 EDT." <199504290202.WAA02751@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:22:48 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >- The printf()s from the slicing code irritate the hell out of me: > >sd0s4: type 0xa5, start 32, end = 2061107, size 2061076 >sd0s4: C/H/S start 0/1/1 (20) != start 32: invalid >sd0s4: C/H/S end 1006/25/20 (523639) != end 2061107: invalid >sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice >sd0: start 32, end 2061107, size 2061076 >sd0d: start 0, end 2061107, size 2061108 >[same thing repeated 2 more times] > > I installed FreeBSD on slice four, using the default values provided > by the install program. In spite of these ominous warnings, the system > seems to work fine. I think I know what it's telling me, but I'm not > in the mood to fiddle with the thing now that I have it working. > Regardless, I have this terrible urge to sweep this all under > bootverbose. Its experimental code. The printfs will die when Bruce believes the code to be stable or you make all of your partitions conform to where the slice code says they should be. Your problem is that you installed using the old sysinstall which is not "slice aware". >- The SCSI disk probe messages also irritate the hell out of me: > >ahc0: reading board settings >ahc0: 274x Twin Channel, A SCSI Id=7, B SCSI Id=7, aic7770 >= Rev E, 16 SCBs All of the information on this line is currently relevent because the driver is "green". Most people don't know if they have a Rev E aic7770 or not (in fact, its not even printed on the chip) and I need to know this when I get bug reports. >ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done This should go. >ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 >ahc0: Probing channel A >ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 >(ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 9022" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) > > I'd rather see something like: > >ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 >aha0: >ahc0: Probing channel A >ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 >sd0 at ahc0 target 0 unit 0 >sd0: (1006MB, 2061108 512 byte sectors) > > (Everything else should probably also be hidden under bootverbose.) > > The latter strikes me as more consistent and more BSDish. (We are > still BSD, right? ;) > > I may be overly critical here, but the last time I saw a Linux > box boot, I was stunned by the jumble of inconsistent probe messages > that it generated. Every driver author seemed to have his own idea > of what the probe messages should look like, and I hated all of them. A linux boot and a FreeBSD boot don't even come close to being in the same league. Your nits are to a driver that is just becoming stable and slice code that needs more testing before the debugging info gets swept under the bootverbose flag or more likely a kernel #ifdef. >- When I tried to 'wire down' sd0, sd1 and cd0 in my new kernel config, > the system panicked when it went to probe channel B of the 2740T. The > messages I got were: > >ahc0: Probing Channel B >extend_set: entry 0 already has storage >panic: scsi_attachdevs: malloc > > Exactly how does the ahc driver handle the other channel? It registers it as another scsibus. > If ahc0:0:0 on channel A is sd0, what does that make ahc0:0:0 on channel B? > Maybe I should be disabling channel B since I have no devices on it? ahc0:0:0 is not specific enough. It should really be: scsibus0:0:0 and scsibus1:0:0 I'll talk to Peter Dufault about it. It doesn't make sense to increment both the unit number of the device and the bus because they are on one contoller. >-Bill > >-- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >-Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager >Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research >Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! >~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 28 23:53:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA13490 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:53:42 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13484 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:53:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA08734; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:47 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504290650.XAA08734@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11052.799132602@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 10:16:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1992 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC: trimmed] ... > > You're not alone.. :-) These should be going away soon. > > > - The SCSI disk probe messages also irritate the hell out of me: > > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > the things it did since the "fnob0: not found" messages just obscure > the messages I'm really looking for (or cause them to scroll off the > screen). Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority here as a number > of other folks say that they like all that "extra diagnostic information." > > I say fiddlesticks, and it's time to make the -v flag earn its keep. > FreeBSD should either shut up entirely or spew loads of stuff at you > if you boot with -v. > > Anyone of a mind to go on a little boot message reform rampage? At FreeBSD 1.1 I went through every probe message generated by the GENERIC system and made them consistent. Since then people have pulled in all sorts of directions and we are now seriously inconsistent. I had it down to close to 1 line, and rarely more than 2 lines per device. We have now gone to 3 to 4 lines per device :-(. The ``not found'' messages issue was debated and decided shortly after it was implemented. The major reason for keeping it around is that you know the kernel looked for the device, you know at what address it tried to find it, and you know that the probe returned 0 for some reason. This has always helped with debugging peoples problems with misconfigured systems. It also acts as a big reminder you have cruft in your kernel that you should probably remove from it. I do mind to some extent if you go on a ``message reform rampage'' with out a clear statement of just what it is you are going to do. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 00:04:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13749 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:04:22 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13735 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:04:16 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA08761; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:00:57 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504290700.AAA08761@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290539.WAA24041@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 28, 95 10:39:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1259 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > > > > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > > > > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > > > > the things it did since.... > > > > > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use > > > userconfig to see what drivers you have in your kernel. > > > > > > Lets kill them now. > > > > I disagree. On bootup you don't have access to userconfig, and it's a > > very useful debugging tool to find out what's a kernel's been compiled > > with to see if you're it's a driver bug or a hardware misconfiguration. > > Nate are you sleeping ? > Have you tried "boot: /kernel -c" lately ??? > userconfig IS ONLY available at booup ! Then I counter with the opposite argument, I can't see what did not get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if you remove those I would have no way to find out what I told it to probe for but it did not find :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 00:31:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA14240 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:31:39 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14234 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:31:31 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA00678; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:31:46 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504290731.IAA00678@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:31:45 +0100 (BST) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290551.WAA24121@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 28, 95 10:51:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 976 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who said > > > What I meant was that userconfig assumes the user has knowlege on how it > > works, so for normal people they don't have 'access' to it. Access was > > probably a poor choice of word to use. *IF* we are going to use it for > > all of the kernel device debugging, then it should be better documented > > before we remove the only useful form we have now. > > printf("Use \"boot /kernel -c\" to see what you don't see."); ? :-) > > Lousy argument in my book... How are we going to get debugging info back from users? Currently we can ask them to send the output of dmesg to see what's happening, telling them to boot -c and *copy down the values* is a lousy argument in my book. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 00:43:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA14487 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:43:13 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14470 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:42:36 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA15373; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 17:37:24 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 17:37:24 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504290737.RAA15373@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: phk@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, nate@trout.sri.MT.net Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > > > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is >> > > > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want The style should be consistent. >> > > With the advent of userconfig, I'm for removing them. Now you can use The drivers should be removed, not their messages. You can use userconfig or the (unimplemented) driver-disable flag in your config file to disable drivers without completely removing them.. >Then I counter with the opposite argument, I can't see what did not >get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right >now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if >you remove those I would have no way to find out what I told it >to probe for but it did not find :-(. I agree. The messages are for putting in /var/log/messages to look at later and quote in bug reports. `bootverbose' should not affect the amount of output that is logged to disk. There should probably be more boot messages, but less printed on the console. The message buffer currently limits the number of boot messages too much. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 02:09:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16142 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 02:09:48 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA16135 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 02:09:42 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00155; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:09:31 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA29095 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:09:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03783 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:20:24 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504290720.JAA03783@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:20:23 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504290202.WAA02751@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "House of Debuggin'" at Apr 28, 95 10:02:48 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 797 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As House of Debuggin' wrote: > > - The Intel EtherExpress is very often misidentified by other drivers > (I set mine to 0x300, irq 10, iomem 0xd0000 to match the GENERIC kernel > settings. Yes, I know I could have used -c to change the settings.) > The Mitsumi CD-ROM driver tripped over it twice. Once it was wrongly > identified as a Wangtek tape controller. I don't blame anyone for > this other than Intel. Better blame whoever made the ISA bus specs. See Terry's excellent article in Usenet (the ``Fortunately''/``Unfortunately'' thingie, i forgot the subject). Putting any card at 0x300 is the best way to have it misidentified. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 02:16:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16210 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 02:16:33 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA16204 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 02:16:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00337; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:16:17 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA29143 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:16:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA07246 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:14:22 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504290914.LAA07246@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:14:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290444.AAA02944@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "House of Debuggin'" at Apr 29, 95 00:44:25 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 652 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As House of Debuggin' wrote: > > (Forgive me if I sound a bit rabid: I've been fighting a pitched > battle with the SGI Onyx here at the CTR and it's got me a little on > edge. Three unexplained panics in one day will do that to you.) You could easily increase that rate by using an Indy along with SGI's ISDN/PPP package. Shortest time between `voluntary' reboots (due to ISDN hanging): 5 minutes. Shortest time between panics seen so far: 30 minutes. But i think this would belong into freebsd-chat... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 03:05:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17185 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:05:38 -0700 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA17178 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:05:36 -0700 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0s59Oh-0001EPC; Sat, 29 Apr 95 03:05 PDT Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA09272; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:04:21 -0700 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199504291004.DAA09272@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504290650.XAA08734@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 28, 95 11:50:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 909 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > The ``not found'' messages issue was debated and decided shortly after it > was implemented. The major reason for keeping it around is that you > know the kernel looked for the device, you know at what address it tried > to find it, and you know that the probe returned 0 for some reason. This > has always helped with debugging peoples problems with misconfigured > systems. It also acts as a big reminder you have cruft in your kernel > that you should probably remove from it. Why not provide a kernel config option (option VERBOSE_BOOT?) that allows the user to determine if the -v option should be implied upon boot as a default. Then those who don't want all the status stuff can turn it off by commenting out the option for the default mode (but still enabled it with -v at the boot prompt). Those who want to see everything as it has always been simply do nothing. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 03:05:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17193 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:05:49 -0700 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s28.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.38]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17186 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:05:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02308; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:50:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199504291050.LAA02308@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:47 PDT." <199504290650.XAA08734@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:50:01 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I do mind to some extent if you go on a ``message reform rampage'' with > out a clear statement of just what it is you are going to do. > I would vote for just printing what is found by default and a -v option to give all kinds of debugging information, but then the screen should also freeze after each screen full of debugging info, in the past I had problems with the NCR driver and I had to reboot like 10 to 20 times before I got enough of the messages that were flying by. Marc. Marc van Kempen wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl He's dead Jim ..., kick him if you don't believe me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 03:18:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17712 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:18:53 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.222.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17706 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:18:44 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA02183 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 03:18:57 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <43063>; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:17:39 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA08509; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 02:28:09 +0200 Message-Id: <199504280028.CAA08509@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (william pechter ILEX), bde@zeta.org.au, FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:33:57 +0200." <9504272033.AA15361@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 02:28:08 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I *loved* the SunSoft CD How did U. look at it, it's a weird format not 9660 did U use a Sun ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:19:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22000 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:19:23 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA21992 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:19:13 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id HAA13172; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:17:45 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504291117.HAA13172@hda.com> Subject: Shutting up the SCSI probe noise To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <199504290622.XAA29018@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 28, 95 11:22:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3380 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk General agreement: Yes there is too much noise, especially if you configure some multiport serial cards. >- The SCSI disk probe messages also irritate the hell out of me: You seem to mean SCSI probe noise in general. Only one line here is from the disk probe. One problem is we have two separate authors here: the author of the low level driver code (some of who have lately has been having a fair amount of trouble and are inclined to print out lots of noise) and the author of the SCSI type driver. >ahc0: reading board settings >ahc0: 274x Twin Channel, A SCSI Id=7, B SCSI Id=7, aic7770 >= Rev E, 16 SCBs >ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done >ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 >ahc0: Probing channel A >ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 This is all ahc probe code. The driver is green, and too noisy. Much of this should be buried in "verbose". >(ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 9022" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 This is from the SCSI bus probe code. Note that it hasn't figured out which driver to use. >sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) And finally something from the disk code. > I'd rather see something like: (elide ahc probe) >sd0 at ahc0 target 0 unit 0 >sd0: (1006MB, 2061108 512 byte sectors) You have deferred printing out what you are probing until after you've matched which driver to use, which includes talking to the device (and potentially hanging up for some funky device). The driver matching code goes beyond just looking at the type code, both to permit special drivers for exact device matches and to support devices that report the wrong type (of which we know of several). If you hang up somewhere talking to the device you'll hang without getting the ID string out. The type drivers are also set up to be demand loaded via an LKM, so that is even more stuff that can go wrong before we even know what we're probing (the "sd" string is inside the "sd" driver; we don't even know the name until the match is complete). >(ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 9022" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) Or, since at this point we've probably seen "ahc0:0:0" enough times, maybe: >(ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 9022" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >sd0: Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) And if you really want angle brackets just twist my arm and I'll be happy to put them in. > > (Everything else should probably also be hidden under bootverbose.) > > The latter strikes me as more consistent and more BSDish. (We are > still BSD, right? ;) > > (...) >- When I tried to 'wire down' sd0, sd1 and cd0 in my new kernel config, > the system panicked when it went to probe channel B of the 2740T. The > messages I got were: > >ahc0: Probing Channel B >extend_set: entry 0 already has storage >panic: scsi_attachdevs: malloc > > Exactly how does the ahc driver handle the other channel? > I call this a big bug. It looks like it is trying to reuse the same bus structure, and surprise - we already have stuff on that bus. I didn't know about it; when you stumble on something like this please open a bug report using send-pr. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:21:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22057 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:50 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22043 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA13704; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:47 PDT." <199504290650.XAA08734@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: <13702.799154490@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The ``not found'' messages issue was debated and decided shortly after it > was implemented. The major reason for keeping it around is that you > know the kernel looked for the device, you know at what address it tried I'm well aware of why it was decided to keep it, having been there during the debates, but this doesn't mean that I agreed with the logic then or now. > I do mind to some extent if you go on a ``message reform rampage'' with > out a clear statement of just what it is you are going to do. Fair enough: 1. Eliminate all but the "found" messages, allowing you to make kernels with additional device support that aren't as chatty as the ones now. When you boot a generic kernel on a given machine, it should show you what it finds there and nothing more. If you need more information about what's being searched for, what's being found and what's not being found, then I think that's a special circumstance and you should boot with -v. Nate has argued that "it's valuable to know what the kernel didn't find" and I strongly disagree. It's valuable to know this WHEN YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE AND IT'S NOT FINDING STUFF YOU *WANT* IT TO FIND, and for every other case it's just NOISE. I would hope that as FreeBSD's device support gets better, and it's already fairly good (for a PC based UN*X, anyway), we'd have less and less need to have people do anything special; it should just work out of the box! In the exceptional cases where it doesn't, the user can boot with -v. It's also foolish to debate this on the merits (or lack thereof) of our documentation. I can readily suggest a number of truly loathsome hacks that would easily compensate for some aspect of our system being poorly documented, but it wouldn't make them right or desirable. 2. Carefully examine each and every probe message and attempt to regularize it to some standard form, e.g.: : , port , irq , drq , ioaddr , iosize [optional attributes] on . [: [optional information]] The goal being to get principle probe messages on one line again and to display the various parameters using the SAME naming conventions used in userconfig to minimize confusion. Some examples: sc0: Syscons Console Driver, port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 [VGA color] on ISA. sc0: [16 virtual consoles] ed0: General Ethernet Driver, port 0x280-0x29f, irq 15, ioaddr 0xd8000, iosize 16384 on ISA. ed0: [address 00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)] sio0: Serial IO Driver, port 0x3f8-0x3ff, irq 4 [type 16550A] on ISA. fdc0: Floppy Controller, port 0x3f0-0x3f7, irq 6, drq 2, [NEC 72065B] on ISA. fd0: on fdc0, [1.44MB 3.5in]. This is just off the top of my head, and already I don't like it, but it's at least orthogonal. The biggest headache are attached devices like fd0 here. I'm not sure how best to deal with them. Maybe something like ": on , [optional attributes]". Assuming that the syntax can be agreed upon, is that enough detail to go on? I'd prefer not to debate this for a long time or we will end up doing what we usually end up doing at the end of long debates: Nothing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:21:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22063 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:50 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22047 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:21:42 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id HAA13184; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:20:21 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504291120.HAA13184@hda.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504282358.TAA11541@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 28, 95 07:58:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 456 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault writes: Joerg! Why are messages sent to you being blasted to -hackers? I would have dug out the dictionary! Am I really doing this myself each time or is it something on your end? After complaining about non-hacker stuff being on hackers I feel like an idiot. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:27:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22187 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:27:57 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22179 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:27:47 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id HAA13199; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:26:21 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504291126.HAA13199@hda.com> Subject: Boot message rampage To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11052.799132602@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 10:16:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1351 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is > inconsistent in many places and I still maintain that I do *NOT* want > to know about all the things it didn't find, I want to know about only > the things it did since the "fnob0: not found" messages just obscure > the messages I'm really looking for (or cause them to scroll off the > screen). Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority here as a number > of other folks say that they like all that "extra diagnostic information." Boy do I agree with this. I have two 8 port serial cards in one of my kernels. > I say fiddlesticks, and it's time to make the -v flag earn its keep. > FreeBSD should either shut up entirely or spew loads of stuff at you > if you boot with -v. I agree. I propose we do provide something similar to the "write out the config" so that you can zap your kernel to support the boot flags you want. > Anyone of a mind to go on a little boot message reform rampage? Please don't go on a rampage yet. Produce a guidelines paragraph first and I'll at least be happy to try to change the SCSI type probe to match, or say why I don't think we should. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:29:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22247 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:29:39 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22241 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:29:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA13755; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:29:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:00:57 PDT." <199504290700.AAA08761@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:29:12 -0700 Message-ID: <13753.799154952@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Then I counter with the opposite argument, I can't see what did not > get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right > now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if > you remove those I would have no way to find out what I told it > to probe for but it did not find :-(. Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't care. If it doesn't work, then you'll go start thinking about booting with -v. I don't need to grep through dmesg output to find that my primary SCSI controller has not been found - that's generally pretty obvious to me after a a minute or so! :-) By contrast, the devices it typically doesn't find (the blend0 blender driver and the god0 weather control device) are devices that I don't have, will never have and further more could care absolutely less about not having. Everyone here is talking like hackers - we want to know what's in the engine and how hot it's running at all times. The majority of drivers don't care one whit and just want to drive it down the freeway without a christmas tree of lights blinking on the dashboard telling them everything from the ambient outside temperature to the rotational speed of each tire. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:30:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22290 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:30:44 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22284 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:30:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA13769; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:30:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Richards cc: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:31:45 BST." <199504290731.IAA00678@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:30:20 -0700 Message-ID: <13767.799155020@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How are we going to get debugging info back from users? > > Currently we can ask them to send the output of dmesg to see what's happening , > telling them to boot -c and *copy down the values* is a lousy argument in > my book. Yoo hoo! Paul! Are you listening! Repeat after me: boot -v dmesg We lose nothing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:36:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22428 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:36:36 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22420 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:36:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA13798; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:35:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 17:37:24 +1000." <199504290737.RAA15373@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:35:13 -0700 Message-ID: <13796.799155313@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The drivers should be removed, not their messages. You can use userconfig > or the (unimplemented) driver-disable flag in your config file to disable > drivers without completely removing them.. This assumes the average user is competent enough to play with userconfig's disable or compile a kernel. Judging by the tech support calls I get, the average user isn't. > I agree. The messages are for putting in /var/log/messages to look > at later and quote in bug reports. `bootverbose' should not affect the > amount of output that is logged to disk. There should probably be > more boot messages, but less printed on the console. The message > buffer currently limits the number of boot messages too much. Then this should be fixed. The entire idea of bootverbose was, to me, to be able to REALLY diagnose user problems with the increased level of debugging information supplied. I don't know about you, but "bt0: not found at 0x330" has NEVER been that helpful to me in diagnosing these user problems that people seem to be arguing so vehemently (and needlessly) that we need to be able to solve. I never disagreed with any of that. I don't, however, think that the current output is helpful enough to qualify as anything but noise. You guys are fighting the good fight, but on entirely the wrong battlefield. An entirely common syndrome among UNIX die-hards and exactly why we lost the war to Microsoft. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:52:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA23025 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:52:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA23010 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:52:05 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA22028; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:48:55 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:48:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504291148.VAA22028@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I would vote for just printing what is found by default and >a -v option to give all kinds of debugging information, but >then the screen should also freeze after each screen full of >debugging info, in the past I had problems with the NCR driver >and I had to reboot like 10 to 20 times before I got enough >of the messages that were flying by. Did you try scrollback? The default scrollback is only 100 lines total, but it could be 100000 lines or so while booting since the memory is not being used for anything else. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 04:57:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA23220 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:57:22 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA23211 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 04:57:03 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA22170; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:53:26 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:53:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504291153.VAA22170@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, paul@isl.cf.ac.uk Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, phk@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> How are we going to get debugging info back from users? >> >> Currently we can ask them to send the output of dmesg to see what's happening >, >> telling them to boot -c and *copy down the values* is a lousy argument in >> my book. >Yoo hoo! Paul! Are you listening! >Repeat after me: > boot -v > dmesg This fails if the boot panics of if there is no writable filesystem for placing the output from dmesg. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 05:03:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA23578 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:03:56 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA23565 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:03:49 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA27293 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:59:54 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 29 Apr 95 15:59:53 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA01112; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:55:19 +0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Mike Pritchard Cc: S0ren Schmidt References: <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com> In-Reply-To: <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com>; from Mike Pritchard at Fri, 28 Apr 1995 17:54:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:55:19 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Screen print capability Lines: 28 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1449 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com> Mike Pritchard writes: >Is anyone else out there interested in seeing a screen print capability >added to FreeBSD? I've developed something that does this, and would >like to see it added to the system, but I thought I would ask for >additional input before submitting a final version. >I implemented a /dev/screen device with code adapted from subr_log.c >(/dev/klog). A daemon process (screend) sits and waits via select until >a print screen event is generated. This event is generated by any of >the combinations of the print_screen key that currently generate a NOP: >shift+print, alt+print, and so on. When the waiting process wakes up, >it will read the current screen contents (which can be something from >the history buffer if you scroll back and hit the print screen button >at that time). I think it should be implemented in another way. Arguments: We have almost-true SCO console (syscons). SCO console have escape to print out screen contents and ioctl to grab screen contents and Alt-PrintScreen works there. We need to ask Soren to implement this stuff in standard SCO compatible way. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 05:08:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA23828 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:08:59 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA23809 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:08:19 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA22510; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:05:43 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:05:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504291205.WAA22510@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dufault@hda.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Boot message rampage Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> All the probe messages irritate the hell out of me. The style is >Boy do I agree with this. I have two 8 port serial cards in one of my >kernels. Do you have the verbose com flag enabled or drivers for nonexistent multiport serial cards? Normally only 2 lines of output per port are printed, but you can get about 10 lines per port in some misconfigurations :-). >I agree. I propose we do provide something similar to the "write out the >config" so that you can zap your kernel to support the boot flags you >want. I have a utility for this (written by Christoph Robitschko) but haven't found it very useful. Zapping the flags at boot time is more convenient. (Today I found a limitation in userconfig(). After zapping some interrupts from -1 to active, the interrupt handlers remained as 0 and caused a panic. userconfig() neither displays nor allows zapping the interrupt handlers.) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 05:18:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24104 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:18:50 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA24070 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 05:18:27 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA22625; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:11:58 +1000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:11:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504291211.WAA22625@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, phk@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right >> now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if >Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't care. >If it doesn't work, then you'll go start thinking about booting with -v. This fails for intermittent errors. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 06:39:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA25692 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 06:39:03 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA25686 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 06:39:00 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id PAA07073 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:38:51 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA01769 for hackers@freebsd.org Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:01:53 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291001.MAA01769@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: Hot Java.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:01:53 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <27759.798714237@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 24, 95 02:03:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1282 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm looking over the sources here a little (I shouldn't, but I > couldn't help myself) and it looks like it's going to be a bit of a > bear. It uses threads pretty aggressively, manipulating thread stack > spaces and juggling their internal priorities in addition to all the > usual create/destroy/block thread ops. I haven't looked at pthreads > lately, but I'd say it'll have to be fairly capable to deal with the > demands made on it by Hot Java. I also don't know whether or not Java > assumes your libc to be thread safe, but I rather expect that it does. > > Anyone interested in forming a Java interest group to discuss the > porting of this to FreeBSD? I think it's going to be a post-2.1 > project, and something of a long one at that. It would make sense to > combine effort. What's so hot concerning java ? I'm running Netscape 1.1 for a while and I didn't find any interesting / superior stuff in it compared to Netscape. On thing was hot ... the size of the whole package ;-) -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 07:05:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA26096 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:05:45 -0700 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s22.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA26089 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:05:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03554; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:56:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199504291456.PAA03554@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:48:55 +1000." <199504291148.VAA22028@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:56:18 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I would vote for just printing what is found by default and > >a -v option to give all kinds of debugging information, but > >then the screen should also freeze after each screen full of > >debugging info, in the past I had problems with the NCR driver > >and I had to reboot like 10 to 20 times before I got enough > >of the messages that were flying by. > > Did you try scrollback? The default scrollback is only 100 > lines total, but it could be 100000 lines or so while booting > since the memory is not being used for anything else. > Ofcourse (slaps hands against forehead) ... I had this problem with 2.0 which didn't have the scrollback buffer yet. If we can make sure to catch all output this should be sufficient. Marc. Marc van Kempen wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl He's dead Jim ..., kick him if you don't believe me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 07:43:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA26993 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:43:32 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA26984 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:43:24 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id KAA13651; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:41:33 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504291441.KAA13651@hda.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <13702.799154490@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 04:21:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3396 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: Gentle Readers: Change the subject line when you begin a new thread! I keep changing the subject, but I guess it screws up the threads since other people are already replying to the previous thread. All of those who are picky about what they read in -hackers are missing this. We now return to Jordan's proposal that should be resubjected as "Jordan's message rampage proposal". > > 1. Eliminate all but the "found" messages, allowing you to make kernels > with additional device support that aren't as chatty as the ones now. > When you boot a generic kernel on a given machine, it should show you > what it finds there and nothing more. If you need more information > about what's being searched for, what's being found and what's not being > found, then I think that's a special circumstance and you should boot > with -v. The verbose flag could become bit patterns. One bit can be "log failures". And we could zap the kernel or the boot block to keep the flag settings (zapping boot block is nice since you could zap in your boot file name as well, including a "no pause before boot" zap). > 2. Carefully examine each and every probe message and attempt to regularize > it to some standard form, e.g.: > > : , port , irq , drq , ioaddr , iosize [optional attributes] on . > [: [optional information]] Move all the print outs out of the drivers and into the probe/attach code so that it is applied uniformly. Drivers that just can't resist saying SOMETHING with every boot can call a standard kernel entry point to print out the start of the line. We have the kdc code with most of the info we need. The notion is that the attach only prints out the same information that you can later see with something like "lsdev -lv". > The goal being to get principle probe messages on one line again and > to display the various parameters using the SAME naming conventions used > in userconfig to minimize confusion. Some examples: > > sc0: Syscons Console Driver, port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 [VGA color] on ISA. > sc0: [16 virtual consoles] Or (switching to use the current devconf descriptions): sc0: Graphics console [VGA color, 16 consoles]: port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 on ISA "Graphics console" is the description now in kern devconf. A possible new "more detail" entry is "VGA color, 16 consoles". Where Jordan has: > ed0: General Ethernet Driver, port 0x280-0x29f, irq 15, ioaddr 0xd8000, iosize 16384 on ISA. > ed0: [address 00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)] I'll have: ed0: Ethernet adapter ed0: [address00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)] ed0: port 0x280-0x29f, irq 15, ioaddr 0xd8000, iosize 16384 on ISA. The devconf description is "Ethernet adapter" The more_detail is "address00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)" The attach code knows how long these strings are and decides when to split things to multiple lines. You could then have a silent flag that would boot up like: sc0: Graphics console ed0: Ethernet adapter ... I have a system going in at a client site that I wish could come up like that. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 07:50:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA27223 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:50:29 -0700 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA27205 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 07:49:56 -0700 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id AAA19916 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 00:49:37 +1000 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199504291449.AAA19916@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: IDE - 32bit .. yes but no :-( To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 00:49:35 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: imb@scgt.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1031 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a machine which has (literally) an el cheapo VLB IDE controller attached to a Quantum Maverick 540A. The problem with both the 950412 SNAP and the one before it is that, by default, it will try to set up 32bit mode. This would be fine, if it worked .. instead, having rebooted from a fresh install, a barrage of error messages such as .. /kernel: wd0e: soft error writing fsbn of (wd0 bn ; cn ...)wd0: status 50 error 10 .. fill the screen :-(. Needless to say, whilst the error message implies that it was probably recoverable, the stuff that's written is junk. There is no recognisable pattern in the block numbers, cylinders, tracks or sectors that would indicate a consistent math problem, Whilst I don't mind a system that tells me I've been too cheap (:-)), there's currently no way AFAIK of disabling this other than to hack the source (force the bcmp 32bit test == 1 in wd.c) but you can't get that far from this installation state .. michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 08:54:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA28102 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:54:34 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28096 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:54:27 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA24821; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:58:26 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:58:26 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291558.JAA24821@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <13702.799154490@time.cdrom.com> References: <199504290650.XAA08734@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> <13702.799154490@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The ``not found'' messages issue was debated and decided shortly after it > > was implemented. The major reason for keeping it around is that you > > know the kernel looked for the device, you know at what address it tried > > 1. Eliminate all but the "found" messages, allowing you to make kernels > with additional device support that aren't as chatty as the ones > now. > When you boot a generic kernel on a given machine, it should show you > what it finds there and nothing more. If you need more information > about what's being searched for, what's being found and what's not being > found, then I think that's a special circumstance and you should boot > with -v. Disagree, and so do Bruce and Rod. The 'not found' messages are not available to the user at runtime. > Nate has argued that "it's valuable to know what the kernel didn't find" > and I strongly disagree. It's valuable to know this WHEN YOU'RE HAVING > TROUBLE AND IT'S NOT FINDING STUFF YOU *WANT* IT TO FIND, and for every > other case it's just NOISE. But the *noise* is irrelevant IF everything works. It's when things don't work that you *need* this noise. When all of your devices are found and it works right, then nobody cares and asks questions. > I would hope that as FreeBSD's device > support gets better, and it's already fairly good (for a PC based UN*X, > anyway), we'd have less and less need to have people do anything special; > it should just work out of the box! In the exceptional cases where it > doesn't, the user can boot with -v. We need to make it *easier* for us to debug problems, not harder. > It's also foolish to debate this on the merits (or lack thereof) of our > documentation. I can readily suggest a number of truly loathsome > hacks that would easily compensate for some aspect of our system > being poorly documented, but it wouldn't make them right or > desirable. If we want to be taken seriously, then decreasing the amount of useful information given to the user is a bad thing. Just because we have lots of other bad things of similar style doesn't justify adding one more. > 2. Carefully examine each and every probe message and attempt to regularize > it to some standard form, e.g.: I doubt you'll find anyone disagreeing with you for doing this. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:00:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28163 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:00:01 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28149 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:59:56 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA24827; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:04:06 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:04:06 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291604.KAA24827@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <13753.799154952@time.cdrom.com> References: <199504290700.AAA08761@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> <13753.799154952@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Then I counter with the opposite argument, I can't see what did not > > get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right > > now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if > > you remove those I would have no way to find out what I told it > > to probe for but it did not find :-(. > > Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't > care. Correct, you don't care. If it's a zillion lines long the average user doesn't care. > I don't need to grep through dmesg output to find that my primary SCSI > controller has not been found - that's generally pretty obvious to me > after a a minute or so! :-) Yes, but it not obvious why. And userconfig is completely undocumented. > By contrast, the devices it typically doesn't find (the blend0 blender > driver and the god0 weather control device) are devices that I don't > have, will never have and further more could care absolutely less > about not having. Actually, this in untrue. IMHO, the devices that aren't found are the ones which are the most interesting to the user. Having *extremely* verbose default boot messages is a bane to them, but having very short and sweet one-liners explaining where things were configuref is still a good thing. > Everyone here is talking like hackers - we want to know what's in the > engine and how hot it's running at all times. Yep, because we as the 'hackers' are generally the folks answering the questions from the users. > The majority of drivers > don't care one whit and just want to drive it down the freeway without > a christmas tree of lights blinking on the dashboard telling them > everything from the ambient outside temperature to the rotational > speed of each tire. Ever seen some of the newer cars startup? All the lights blinks on and off at startup to let you know it all works. Bad analogy. :-) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:03:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28202 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:03:19 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28196 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:03:14 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA24837; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:07:25 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:07:25 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291607.KAA24837@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bruce Evans , phk@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <13796.799155313@time.cdrom.com> References: <199504290737.RAA15373@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <13796.799155313@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > of debugging information supplied. I don't know about you, but "bt0: > not found at 0x330" has NEVER been that helpful to me in diagnosing > these user problems that people seem to be arguing so vehemently (and > needlessly) that we need to be able to solve. That's the problem. "bt0: not found at 0x330" has been invaluable to me in debugging users problems. I use it more than *any* other tool to find problems with folks setup. I can't disagree that it never helped you obviously, but sure the heck has helped me. > I never disagreed with > any of that. I don't, however, think that the current output is > helpful enough to qualify as anything but noise. Then let's reduce some of the *un-necessary/unhelpful* noise. Don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. > You guys are > fighting the good fight, but on entirely the wrong battlefield. An > entirely common syndrome among UNIX die-hards and exactly why we lost > the war to Microsoft. Cheap shot, and not worth responding to. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:07:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28274 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:07:17 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28268 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:07:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA14384; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:06:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:11:58 +1000." <199504291211.WAA22625@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:06:26 -0700 Message-ID: <14382.799171586@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right > >> now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if > > >Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't care. > >If it doesn't work, then you'll go start thinking about booting with -v. > > This fails for intermittent errors. > > Bruce Look guys, we're not trying to save the world in all its possible guises - there are a number of areas in which the current messages won't save you at all either, yet I don't see any of the proponents of "yell in all situations" coming up with any solutions to those problems, and you'd have us preserve an inferior status-quo instead and call it a victory. However, I don't see that this is going anywhere so I'll shut up now and say no more on the subject.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:07:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28290 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:07:58 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA28284 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:07:53 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA11978 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:04:56 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:04:55 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA02096; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:03:43 +0400 To: Peter Dufault , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com References: <199504291441.KAA13651@hda.com> In-Reply-To: <199504291441.KAA13651@hda.com>; from Peter Dufault at Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:03:42 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 Lines: 24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1042 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504291441.KAA13651@hda.com> Peter Dufault writes: >> The goal being to get principle probe messages on one line again and >> to display the various parameters using the SAME naming conventions used >> in userconfig to minimize confusion. Some examples: >> >> sc0: Syscons Console Driver, port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 [VGA color] on ISA. >> sc0: [16 virtual consoles] >Or (switching to use the current devconf descriptions): >sc0: Graphics console [VGA color, 16 consoles]: port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 on ISA >"Graphics console" is the description now in kern devconf. >A possible new "more detail" entry is "VGA color, 16 consoles". Speaking of syscons, you miss "flags 0xXX" which change cursor shape and should be reported too. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:10:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28331 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:10:01 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28319 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:10:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA14425; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:09:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Andreas Klemm cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:01:53 +0200." <199504291001.MAA01769@knobel.GUN.de> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:09:43 -0700 Message-ID: <14423.799171783@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What's so hot concerning java ? I'm running Netscape 1.1 for a while > and I didn't find any interesting / superior stuff in it compared > to Netscape. On thing was hot ... the size of the whole package ;-) [Don't have time right now for this, as much as I'd like to, so I'll be brief] Java has an interpreted language built in, so you can download scripts that actually _interact_ with the user locally. I don't think you played with Java very much or read the white paper if you saw no obvious advantages.. :-) Go read all the stuff they have on http://hotjava.sun.com and then we'll revive this discussion! :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:14:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28481 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:14:54 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28471 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:14:49 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA24880; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:18:51 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:18:51 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291618.KAA24880@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bruce Evans , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 In-Reply-To: <14382.799171586@time.cdrom.com> References: <199504291211.WAA22625@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <14382.799171586@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> get found after boot if you remove the not found messages. Right > > >> now I can use dmesg or look in /var/log/messages and see it, but if > > > > >Now we're getting silly. If your system works fine then you don't care. > > >If it doesn't work, then you'll go start thinking about booting with -v. > > > > This fails for intermittent errors. > > > > Bruce > > Look guys, we're not trying to save the world in all its possible > guises - there are a number of areas in which the current messages > won't save you at all either, yet I don't see any of the proponents of > "yell in all situations" coming up with any solutions to those > problems I think the arguement is not against verbose messages so much as against removing what we consider to be still valid messages for the sake of 'cleaning' up the output. Peter Dufault's message description used in a previous email is a great example of nice output messages. If we can standardize on a way to get these messages printed when the device isn't found as well I for one would be satisfied. I think everyone agrees some of our drivers are un-necessarily verbose (some are that way now because of debugging info which I think is still necessary). If we can provide a 'verbose' flag which allows the user to turn on the really verbose flag at boot time to get these kind of errors messages it's a win. However, not having the verbose flag should not mean we don't see the devices that haven't been found. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 09:41:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28844 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:41:48 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28838 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:41:40 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA24938; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:45:59 -0600 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:45:59 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504291645.KAA24938@trout.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Verbose vs. non-verbose Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's a quick example of the current state of affairs, and an example of results I think might we workable. (Note, I know some of the outputs I'm using are not doable now, but something similar should be doable) Current-verbose scheme. ----------------------- FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP #0: Sat Apr 15 13:27:44 PDT 1995 davidg@freefall.cdrom.com:/c/local/sys/compile/FREEFALL CPU: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x521 Stepping=1 Features=0x1bf real memory = 49938432 (12192 pages) avail memory = 47591424 (11619 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA mono <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 10 maddr 0xe8000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:bc:55:7d, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit) bpf: ed0 attached sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A bt0: Bt946C/ 0-PCI/EISA/VLB(32bit) bus bt0: reading board settings, busmastering, int=11 bt0: version 4.21, sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 1 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 2 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 6 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme bt0 at 0x330 irq 11 on isa (bt0:0:0): "QUANTUM EMPIRE_2100S 1021" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2006MB (4108600 512 byte sectors) (bt0:1:0): "QUANTUM PD1800S 3162" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1717MB (3517856 512 byte sectors) (bt0:2:0): "QUANTUM PD1800S 3162" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 1717MB (3517856 512 byte sectors) (bt0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3501TA 2694" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(bt0:6:0): CD-ROM cd present.[320577 x 2048 byte records] fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface bio_imask c0000840 tty_imask c0010012 net_imask c0020400 Probing for devices on the pci0 bus: configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices. chip0 rev 17 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 pci0:12: vendor=0xffff, device=0x140, class=storage [not supported] map(10): io(330) sd0s1: start 32, end = 61439, size 61408: OK sd0s2: start 61440, end = 4108287, size 4046848: OK sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice sd0: start 61440, end 4108287, size 4046848 sd0e: start 32, end 61439, size 61408 sd1s1: start 0, end = 3517855, size 3517856: OK sd2s1: start 0, end = 3517855, size 3517856: OK sd0s1: start 32, end = 61439, size 61408: OK sd0s2: start 61440, end = 4108287, size 4046848: OK sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice sd0: start 61440, end 4108287, size 4046848 sd0e: start 32, end 61439, size 61408 bpf: lo0 attached sd0s1: start 32, end = 61439, size 61408: OK sd0s2: start 61440, end = 4108287, size 4046848: OK sd0: rejecting partition in BSD label: it isn't entirely within the slice sd0: start 61440, end 4108287, size 4046848 sd0e: start 32, end 61439, size 61408 WARNING: / was not properly dismounted And now, a less verbose but still valuable scheme ------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP #0: Sat Apr 15 13:27:44 PDT 1995 davidg@freefall.cdrom.com:/c/local/sys/compile/FREEFALL CPU: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) E,CX8,APIC> real memory = 49938432 (12192 pages) avail memory = 47591424 (11619 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0: Graphics console [VGA color, 16 consoles]: port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 on ISA ed0: Ethernet adapter ed0: [address 00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)] ed0: port 0x280-0x29f, irq 15, ioaddr 0xd8000, iosize 16384 on ISA. bpf: ed0 attached sio0: Serial port[type 16550A]: port 0x3f8-0x3ff, irq 4 on ISA sio1: NOT FOUND at port 0x3f8-0x3ff, irq 4 bt0: Bt946C [PCI/EISA/VLB]: port 0x330, irq 11 on ISA (bt0:0:0): "QUANTUM EMPIRE_2100S 1021" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 2006MB (4108600 512 byte sectors) (bt0:1:0): "QUANTUM PD1800S 3162" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1717MB (3517856 512 byte sectors) (bt0:2:0): "QUANTUM PD1800S 3162" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(bt0:2:0): Direct-Access 1717MB (3517856 512 byte sectors) (bt0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3501TA 2694" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(bt0:6:0): CD-ROM cd present.[320577 x 2048 byte records] fdc0: Floppy controller[NEC 72065B]: port 0x3f0-0x3f7, irq 6, drq 2 on ISA fd0: Floppy [1.44MB 3.5in] npx0: INT 16 interface [on motherboard] bio_imask c0000840 tty_imask c0010012 net_imask c0020400 Probing for devices on the PCI0 bus: chip0: cache controller[Intel 82434LX rev 17] on PCI0:0 chip1: PCI-ISA bridge [Intel 82378IB rev 3] on PCI0:2 pci0:12: vendor=0xffff, device=0x140, class=storage [not supported] map(10): io(330) bpf: lo0 attached WARNING: / was not properly dismounted I won't comment on the verbosity of the SCSI output messages simply because I don't have a good scheme for making them shorter. I don't like the (aha0:0:0) at the beginning of the line, could we use a couple spaces to offset it to make it obvious that it was referring to the previous line as well? Anyway, when a devices isn't found, you still print out the normal sio1: header, but a big 'NOT FOUND' followed by the compiled in HW flags would be my preference. Note, this line: pci0:12: vendor=0xffff, device=0x140, class=storage [not supported] map(10): io(330) Still means nothing to me. I'm not sure what it is, or why it's on my system. This is where having the short descriptions and a standard format is invaluable. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:25:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29627 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:07 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29614 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:01 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21340; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:42 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02352 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:06:47 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291406.QAA02352@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: AHC2940 + Micropolis/Seagate w/wo tagged queueing To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:06:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <6567.798051413@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> from "moto@CS.CMU.EDU" at Apr 16, 95 12:56:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1835 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have two types of drive (Micropolis 4221 and Seagate Barracuda I > (ST11950N)) and an AHA-2490. I did some experiments with these drives > enabling/disabling the tagged queueing option on 940412-SNAP. Here is > the result: > > Machine: GATEWAY2000 P5-100 > Controller: AHA-2940 > > Case 1) Kernel: 950412-SNAP stock > Drive: Seagate Barracuda I > Result: perfectly working (even with 10MB/s xfer rate). > > Case 2) Kernel: 950412-SNAP recompiled with AHC_TAGENABLE > Drive: Seagate Barracuda I > Result: panics and reboots right after the drive is probed > no matter how fast the xfer rate is. > > Case 3) Kernel: 950412-SNAP stock > Drive: Micropolis 4221 > Result: working but up to 8MB/s. When 10MB/s is selected, timeout > occurs. > > Case 4) Kernel: 950412-SNAP recompiled with AHC_TAGENABLE > Drive: Micropolis 4221 > Result: timeout occurs even with 5MB/s xfer rate as before > > (In either cases, only one SCSI drive is attached. No other SCSI > devices is present.) > > I think that 950412 kernel is almost rock solid w.r.t. aha2940 driver, > but looks like it still has a subtle timing problem. Not to mention, > there is a possibility that this is just caused by a drive's firmware > problem, though. I'd like to hear an experience from other people who > are using aha2940. Thanks! Whats the status of this ? We use AHA 2940 in our departement. I'd love to see this fixed. I wanna persuade our developers to go with FreeBSD when 2.1 is out. So this is important for me. Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:25:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29714 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:42 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29692 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:37 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21343; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:44 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02380 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:12:58 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291412.QAA02380@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:12:58 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504161930.MAA07697@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 16, 95 12:30:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1429 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gentlemen, > > For the last three days I have been trying to make 'apsfilter' work > > on my 2.0R system. I have learned a lot, but have hit a final sticking > > point. > > > > 'apsfilter' is started by the lpd. It tries to determine the type of > > file that is being printed. Unfortunately, it uses `file -` to determine > > the type of file. A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. > > > > main() > > { > > return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; > > } > > Is that the sole content of the file? No #includes?? If so try this > program: > > #include > int > main() > { > return (lseek(0,0L,0) < 0); > } > > The problem could be that without including unistd.h the arg types to > the lseek call are wrong (FreeBSD uses a 64Bit offset). Thus the third > argument to lseek was trash, and that is the whence argument :-(. Apsfilter 4.9 delta (newest one): #ifdef __FreeBSD__ #include #endif main() { #ifdef __FreeBSD__ return lseek(STDIN_FILENO, (off_t)0, SEEK_SET) < 0; #else return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; #endif } Apsfilter worked ok for 1.1.5.1 and 2.0 that way. -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:25:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29712 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:42 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29687 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:25:35 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21362; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:51 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02391 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:17:00 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291417.QAA02391@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: wwanders@sci.kun.nl (William Wanders) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:17:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504162101.XAA15103@studs.sci.kun.nl> from "William Wanders" at Apr 16, 95 11:01:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 775 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've got apsfilter up and running for several months now. Since > version 2.x or something. Every release had the same problem > with rewindstdin.c. Although i informed the author he didn't > incorporate any of my changes. Eg. have the standard accounting > scheme running with apsfilter 4.8 and it seems quite stable. > That is if you think 3000 correctly counted pages are enough > proof. You speek of 4.8 ... well, then better get 4.8.1 which came shortly after 4.8 for some reason :) -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:27:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29820 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:27:49 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29786 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:26:51 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21337; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:38 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02341 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:03:00 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291403.QAA02341@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: A better malloc() for FreeBSD To: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:02:59 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504121134.OAA24547@vinkku.hut.fi> from "Kai Vorma" at Apr 12, 95 02:34:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 789 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Nate Williams writes: > > > > I'm in agreement with you. The current malloc implementation is very > > fast, but I think replacing malloc would make the system faster since > > there would be less swapping due to less memory use. > > > > If you could get some hard numbers re: performance I think we might have > > more to stand on when the time comes to integrate it into the system. > > Here you have some numbers. I think all mallocs are fast enough > although dlmalloc is superior in simumalloc/1. And ? Is the new malloc already part of -current ? Would love to see such a space saving and fast malloc. Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:27:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29826 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:27:50 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29814 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:27:46 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA09531; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:24:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504291724.KAA09531@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Verbose vs. non-verbose To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504291645.KAA24938@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 29, 95 10:45:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1203 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just a note so Nate knows what this means, and to let the rest know this *can be* valuable information. > > Here's a quick example of the current state of affairs, and an example > of results I think might we workable. (Note, I know some of the outputs > I'm using are not doable now, but something similar should be doable) ... > Note, this line: > pci0:12: vendor=0xffff, device=0x140, class=storage [not supported] > map(10): io(330) > Still means nothing to me. I'm not sure what it is, or why it's on my > system. This is where having the short descriptions and a standard > format is invaluable. It means at PCI bus 0 slot 12 you have a board that returned a vendor ID of 0xFFFF, it is a storage class controller (ie, disk controller), it has a PCI map entry of 10 slots at io address 330. I happen to know that this is a BT946C with the BIOS enabled and the ``Use default address'' turned on. BusLogic kinda screws things up here by nuking the vendor ID if the BIOS is running in ISA compatibility I/O address mode :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:31:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29897 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:31:14 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29873 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:31:08 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21359; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:49 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02386 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:15:44 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291415.QAA02386@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:15:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504162011.WAA00686@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 16, 95 10:11:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1197 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [trying to get apsfilter to work on FreeBSD] > > > ... A companion program is supplied called 'rewindstdin'. > > > > main() > > { > > return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; > > } > > I've already wondered how this should work on a pipe after Andreas > described it to me on the phone. I'd suggest you to contact Andreas > Klemm for this, he knows best what he's done. (I'm Cc'ing him for > this, but his mail relay doesn't seem to be reliable all the time.) Hi, I'm here ;-) > Andreas does also know about the ~/.apsfilterrc vulnerability, and > i think he's working on some fix for this. Ok, work for me :) Let's see, big weekend and bad weather upcoming ... Good time to make 4.9 Release... Would love to see you grabbing the newest version and not to poke around with older versions. But perhaps it's a bit my fault, since I wasn't very creative these months in apsfilter thingies.... ;-) -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:34:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA00138 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:34:46 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00108 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:34:26 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id TAA21365; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:24:53 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02416 Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:21:20 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504291421.QAA02416@knobel.GUN.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:21:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com, wwanders@sci.kun.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504170714.JAA04550@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 17, 95 09:14:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1191 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > > >#include > > > > >main() > > >{ > > > rewind(stdin); > > > return(0); > > >} > > > > Yet one: > > fpurge(stdin); > > Won't help. You didn't notice the ``main()'' above? > > Boy, he tries to rewind a pipe from a separate _process_! This is > impossible. I got this from someone to eliminate the need for a tmp file, when printing dvi files using dvips. It worked for Linux Slackware like charm, as well as for FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. FreeBSD 2.0 introduces something new, which made this necessary: #ifdef __FreeBSD__ #include #endif main() { #ifdef __FreeBSD__ return lseek(STDIN_FILENO, (off_t)0, SEEK_SET) < 0; #else return lseek(0,0L,0) < 0; #endif } Then it worked well for someone who gave me the fix. If 2.0.5 introduces new inconsistances for rewindstdin, then I'd like to get a fix from a kind person... -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:44:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA00867 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:44:20 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00860 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:44:17 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA27122 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:46:01 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504291746.NAA27122@ns1.win.net> Subject: multi-pci scsi controllers To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:46:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1245 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I read Jordan's note about building a large server with PC hardware with keen attention. We are doing the same here. I'm interested in the issue of using multiple PCI scsi controllers for disks. On my main server I've got enough disk that I'm starting to think that I do have some controller contention. How much does a 2940 or bt946c burden a PCI bus? I'm sure that the walnut creek guys already know these details. I have a handfull of these controllers and I could experiment with spreading some load around. Any caveats with multiple 2940's that we should be aware of? Could we mix and match 2940/bt946c in the same box without bios contention? PS: we got the Kentucky Derby home page business on our main server so the Derby home page is on FreeBSD! http://www.win.net/derby Lots of hits - and the first saturday in may is coming. I worked at another horse racing database firm in my younger days - and derby eve the machines were swamped with activity from all over the world. We are getting enough news and web activity on the server to probably justify two controllers at this point - if it would make a positive difference. I probably need to scare up some more RAM (as usual). Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:47:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01120 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:47:56 -0700 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01108 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:47:54 -0700 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa17829; 29 Apr 95 13:46 EDT To: Andreas Klemm cc: moto@CS.cmu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHC2940 + Micropolis/Seagate w/wo tagged queueing In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:06:46 +0200. <199504291406.QAA02352@knobel.GUN.de> Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu From: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:45:40 -0400 Message-ID: <17825.799177540@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, all >>>>> "Andreas" == Andreas Klemm writes: >> I have two types of drive (Micropolis 4221 and Seagate Barracuda I >> (ST11950N)) and an AHA-2490. I did some experiments with these >> drives enabling/disabling the tagged queueing option on >> 940412-SNAP. Here is the result: >> >> Machine: GATEWAY2000 P5-100 Controller: AHA-2940 >> >> Case 1) Kernel: 950412-SNAP stock Drive: Seagate Barracuda I >> Result: perfectly working (even with 10MB/s xfer rate). ... (stuff deleted) Andreas> Whats the status of this ? We use AHA 2940 in our Andreas> departement. I'd love to see this fixed. I wanna persuade our Andreas> developers to go with FreeBSD when 2.1 is out. So this is Andreas> important for me. Not much progress :-) I'm currently using Micropolis 4221 without tagged queueing under 8Mb/s xfer rate. This is stable at lease for me. As Jordan made an announcement yesterday, ftp.freebsd.org, which is the flagship machine of FreeBSD project, is now using AHA2940 (I don't know whether they're enabling the tagged queueing or not, though). This makes me believe that AHA2940 driver in soon-to-be-comming 2.0.5. would be so solid. ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 10:53:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01499 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:53:39 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01493 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 10:53:36 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA27761 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:55:35 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504291755.NAA27761@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1060 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What I'd like for the 2.0.5 release is a seperate sup tree containing patch texts, say, /usr/src/syspatch This would contain just kernel bug fixes for 2.0.5 as you guys continue development motion towards a 2.1. This would allow those of us who may not need a new feature to stabalize a server in the 2.0.5 world. This may also be of some benefit to your wc site. Right now I can sort of do this by doing file compares of this week's stabalized/customized snapshot against the -current. I can pull fixes out of -current and stuff them into my snapshot. The files could be as simple as a note explaining the bug and the source to refer to in -current for the patch. If I get a dump, say, when I shove several megabytes through a pipe, I could search something and see if there is already a fix. Maybe you guys have a database of this already and I just am not aware of how to access it. If I don't see a report of a similar bug I could then report it, and some attention could be paid to it for the 2.1 release. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 11:22:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA02717 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:22:08 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA02711 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:22:02 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA16978 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:07:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:07:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199504291807.OAA16978@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: stray irq 15 error Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just changed the MB on what was a working system on a 486-66 8mb system to a 486-33SLC-33 with 4mb and I'm getting lots of "stray irq 15" error. Of course there isn't anything configured for that interrupt. And then the system page faults after a short time. All of the cards and the kernel are identical to what was running on the other MB. The new MB seems to run OK in DOS so I don't think that there's anything major wrong with it (unless I'm getting memory errors). I suspect it has something to do with the SLC with no math copressor or the only 4meg of ram. any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 11:37:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03852 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:37:03 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03840 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:37:01 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA25999; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:36:42 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504291836.LAA25999@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: IDE - 32bit .. yes but no :-( To: imb@scgt.oz.au Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 11:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504291449.AAA19916@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> from "michael butler" at Apr 30, 95 00:49:35 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 511 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a machine which has (literally) an el cheapo VLB IDE controller > attached to a Quantum Maverick 540A. The problem with both the 950412 SNAP > and the one before it is that, by default, it will try to set up 32bit mode. This has been changed in -current. Now you control 32bit and clustering using flags wdc0 0xYYYY -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 12:21:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA06059 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:21:12 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06037 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:21:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA05312 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:13:05 GMT Message-Id: <199504291213.MAA05312@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: CDI's White Book , mpeg and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:13:01 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I don't have yet the White, Green, Red books;however, I am going to try to get hold of them next week. So far, I can read a White Book CD, "The Silence of the Lambs", however when I try to dump the mpeg stream to my mpeg board it doesn't work. My understanding is that I have to do some minor massaging to the CDI's mpeg stream in order for it to be a true mpeg stream. Any clues anyone out there? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 12:35:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07133 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:35:44 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07125 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:35:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA14976 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:35:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: The Party tonite. Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:35:43 -0700 Message-ID: <14974.799184143@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A couple of questions: 1. How many will be showing up? 2. How do I get there? I seem to have misplaced my copy of the directions! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 12:46:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08085 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:46:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA08075 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:46:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA16242; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:46:31 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA02720; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:46:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00553; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:39:39 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504291939.VAA00553@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:39:38 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199504291421.QAA02416@knobel.GUN.de> from "Andreas Klemm" at Apr 29, 95 04:21:19 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1583 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > Boy, he tries to rewind a pipe from a separate _process_! This is > > impossible. > > I got this from someone to eliminate the need for a tmp file, when > printing dvi files using dvips. It worked for Linux Slackware like > charm, as well as for FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. My fault. Someone else clarified this in private mail; the rewind is actually on a disk file, of course. > FreeBSD 2.0 introduces something new, which made this necessary: > > #ifdef __FreeBSD__ NOOO! I'm not sure which systems define the 2nd parameter of lseek() to be off_t. Anyway, from /usr/ports/GUIDELINES: 0.2 The preferred way to tell 4.3BSD/Reno and newer versions of the BSD code apart is by using the "BSD" macro defined in . Hopefully that file is already included; if not, add the code: * #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H * #include * #endif to the proper place in the .c file and add -D_HAVE_PARAM_H to the CFLAGS in the Makefile. Then, you may use: #if (defined(BSD) && (BSD >= 199103)) to detect if the code is being compiled on a 4.3 Net2 code base or newer (e.g. FreeBSD 1.x, 4.3/Reno, NetBSD 0.9, 386BSD, BSD/386 1.0). * Use: * * #if (defined(BSD) && (BSD >= 199306)) * * to detect if the code is being compiled on a 4.4 code base or newer * (e.g. FreeBSD 2.x, 4.4, NetBSD 1.0, BSD/386 1.1). The change is required for ALL 4.4BSD based systems! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:14:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10349 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:14:37 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10336 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:14:23 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA22915 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:14:18 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA15956 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:14:17 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504292014.WAA15956@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:14:16 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504281923.AA11679@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Apr 28, 95 02:23:41 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 346 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > the -a option. I don't always want the cdrom to mount. Still then the > mount point is defined so you can say mount /cdrom and it does. Seconded. I miss it too. Let's use SunOS's noauto option. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:19:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10659 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:19:27 -0700 Received: from morton.cdrom.com (morton.cdrom.com [192.216.222.17]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10642 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:19:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by morton.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA05829 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:20:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: morton.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Translators needed urgently! Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:20:05 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, ahem.. Let me be more precise.. Just as soon as I have something for them to translate, then they're needed urgently! :-) That's why I haven't made much noise about this up to now, but it occurs to me that I'd better have my contact list well in order now if I'm have any hope at all for a fast turnaround on translations for 2.0.5. I'd like to have at least the top level README, and perhaps the INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian The new sysinstall has a menu for setting the language type and will look first in help/${LANG}/ if LANG is set, which the installer also allows you to do from a convenient menu. I'm going for only the european languages as I'm not certain I'll be able to fit the Japanese fonts on the first floppy. I can certainly do ISO-8859-1, which gets me pretty much all the european ones, and koi8 is also small. If I *can* manage Japanese then I certainly will, of course, but I don't even have a syscons font or screen map for it yet. Oh yes, anyone helping out with a translation will, of course, receive a free 2.0.5 CDROM! 2 even! :-) Any takers? I really won't be needing very much stuff translated (about 2 pages, max), but I will need it *fast* since I tend to write all the documentation at the very last minute and won't want to hold up final production for too long over the translations.. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:23:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10969 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:23:50 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10961 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:23:46 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA22970 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:23:40 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA16020 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:23:39 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504292023.WAA16020@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5 To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:23:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, root@morton.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504282309.AA24219@yarmouth.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 28, 95 07:09:19 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 668 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > By the way: did we ever get a -a option in ifconfig? Sure. Look at this commit message : jkh 94/12/30 14:42:41 Modified: sbin/ifconfig Makefile ifconfig.c Log: From: Wankle Rotary Engine - The -a flag now works just as it does in SunOS: '-a' is actually handled like a wildcard for all interfaces. 'ifconfig -a' displays the status of all interfaces, 'ifconfig -a netmask 0xffffff00' sets the netmask of all interfaces, and so forth. I don't know if many -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:34:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA11842 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:34:32 -0700 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA11835 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:34:26 -0700 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0s5JDa-0001I9C; Sat, 29 Apr 95 13:34 PDT Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA12363; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:34:21 -0700 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199504292034.NAA12363@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5y To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504291441.KAA13651@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 29, 95 10:41:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1019 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault writes: > > The verbose flag could become bit patterns. One bit can be "log > failures". And we could zap the kernel or the boot block > to keep the flag settings (zapping boot block is nice since you could > zap in your boot file name as well, including a "no pause before boot" > zap). Maybe there is a way to actually write a default boot prompt command line, so that it is humanly easy to record without the need of consulting a bit chart and a calculator or a special utility? defaultboot "kernel -v" This would allow you to include a path to a different kernel and arguments -- perhaps if you're doing a bunch of testing and need a non-standard way of booting up. And, of course, it would also let you control the verbose mode (and any other modes) as you see fit. I suggest that the boot code display this before the boot prompt so that you know what will happen if you don't intervene and the bootcode times out waiting for input. If it times out, it uses the default boot command line. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:36:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA12019 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:36:46 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11991 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:36:39 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA23078 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:36:20 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA16125 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:36:20 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504292036.WAA16125@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5* To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:36:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, hackers@FreeBSD.org, root@morton.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11199.799133365@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 28, 95 10:29:25 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 397 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Lets kill them now. > > If no one else argues vehemently, I say we should go for it. How often do you boot your machine ? Too much it seems :-) Change the messages, make them consistent but don't remove them. They're not that annoying really. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 13:52:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA13606 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:52:32 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA13599 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 13:52:27 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA23185 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:52:22 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA16223 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:52:21 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504292052.WAA16223@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Hot Java.. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:52:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <14423.799171783@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 09:09:43 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 355 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Java has an interpreted language built in, so you can download scripts > that actually _interact_ with the user locally. I don't think you That should open a big can of worms too (aka security holes)... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 14:01:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14468 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:01:22 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14453 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:01:17 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA23221 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:01:10 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id XAA16264 ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:01:09 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504292101.XAA16264@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Translators needed urgently! To: jkh@morton.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:01:09 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 01:20:05 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0.950416-SNAP ctm#562 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 614 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the > next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: > > Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian I can take French. > Any takers? I really won't be needing very much stuff translated > (about 2 pages, max), but I will need it *fast* since I tend to write > all the documentation at the very last minute and won't want to hold > up final production for too long over the translations.. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 14:07:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15036 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:07:05 -0700 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15022 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:07:01 -0700 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA11746; Sat, 29 Apr 95 23:06:57 +0100 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 23:06:57 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9504292206.AA11746@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: jkh@morton.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> (jkh@morton.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Translators needed urgently! X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: > Well, ahem.. Let me be more precise.. Just as soon as I have > something for them to translate, then they're needed urgently! :-) > That's why I haven't made much noise about this up to now, but it > occurs to me that I'd better have my contact list well in order now if > I'm have any hope at all for a fast turnaround on translations for > 2.0.5. > I'd like to have at least the top level README, and perhaps the > INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the > next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: > Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian I will do the french one Jean-Marc. _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 14:11:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15517 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:11:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15511 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:11:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA15436; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:10:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: time.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:52:21 +0200." <199504292052.WAA16223@blaise.ibp.fr> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: <15434.799189818@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Java has an interpreted language built in, so you can download scripts > > that actually _interact_ with the user locally. I don't think you > > That should open a big can of worms too (aka security holes)... This is certainly not news to Sun, and they have some mechanisms for dealing with it. You can also disallow local execution if you wish, using it instead as a straight brower. Dataflow analysis and variant command sets/privilege levels for interpreted languages is the future. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 14:17:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16064 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:17:40 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16058 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:17:32 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04294; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:14:09 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504292014.QAA04294@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: RE: Boot message rampage To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 16:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <13702.799154490@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 04:21:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 9135 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They say this Jordan K. Hubbard person was kidding when he wrote: [Jordan submits a proposal for boot message reoganization] > 1. Eliminate all but the "found" messages, allowing you to make kernels > with additional device support that aren't as chatty as the ones now. > When you boot a generic kernel on a given machine, it should show you > what it finds there and nothing more. If you need more information > about what's being searched for, what's being found and what's not being > found, then I think that's a special circumstance and you should boot > with -v. Actually, I never thought of getting rid of the 'not found' messages. I'm happy with them either way. However, it should be noted that I don't tend to leave the GENERIC kernel in place on my systems for very long. My way of keeping the 'not found' messages from bothering me is to config a custom kernel that only includes support for devices that I have. (Actually, getting rid of the probe failure messages isn't my primary motivation: it happens that many of the device probes take a while to time out, and I don't like waiting for my system to boot. :) > it should just work out of the box! In the exceptional cases where it > doesn't, the user can boot with -v. It would look neater, but I wouldn't worry too much over this. Best to concentrate on the other messages, I think. > 2. Carefully examine each and every probe message and attempt to regularize > it to some standard form, e.g.: [snip] > sc0: Syscons Console Driver, port 0x60-0x6f, irq 1 [VGA color] on ISA. > sc0: [16 virtual consoles] > ed0: General Ethernet Driver, port 0x280-0x29f, irq 15, ioaddr 0xd8000, iosize 16384 on ISA. > ed0: [address 00:00:c0:58:99:72, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit)] > sio0: Serial IO Driver, port 0x3f8-0x3ff, irq 4 [type 16550A] on ISA. > fdc0: Floppy Controller, port 0x3f0-0x3f7, irq 6, drq 2, [NEC 72065B] on ISA. > fd0: on fdc0, [1.44MB 3.5in]. Aaahhh!! Nooooo!!! I said make the messages more consistent, I didn't say you should rewrite them in your own, twisted, Perl-generated image! :) Please, lose the 'Syscons Console Driver,' and 'General Ethernet Driver,' and 'Serial IO Driver' stuff! This irritates me far more than anything we have now! > This is just off the top of my head, and already I don't like it, but > it's at least orthogonal. The top of your head is orthogonal? :) > The biggest headache are attached devices > like fd0 here. I'm not sure how best to deal with them. > Maybe something > like ": on , [optional attributes]". fd0, just like wd0 and sd0 is a drive attached to a controller at a particular unit number. It should be more like: at unit : (See example below.) 'Naughty bits' can be some device-dependent info, which should be consistent for similar devices. Disk drives should list capacity in megabytes and geometry. (Or, in the case of SCSI disks, number of sectors instead of geometry, since it's been argued to death that the geometry reported for SCSI disks is generally not useful.) All of these are optional since they may not apply in some cases. Note that if you jiggled your kernel config a bit, could conceiveably wind up with: fd1 at fdc0 unit 0 which looks bass-ackwards, but should otherwise work. This is not a bug, it's a feature. Lookit, here's an example of what I would consider ideal boot messages: FreeBSD BUILT-19950428 #0: Fri Apr 28 11:36:14 EDT 1995 root@nakedgun.ctr.columbia.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/NAKEDGUN CPU: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) real memory = 16384000 (4000 pages) avail memory = 15089664 (3684 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: lp0 at lpt0 lp0: psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: fd0 at fdc0 unit 0 fd0: <1.44MB 3.5in, 80 cyls, 2 hds, 36 S/T, 512 B/S> fd1 at fdc0 unit 1 fd1: <1.2MB 5.25in, 80 cyls, 2 hds, 30 S/T, 512 B/S> wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wd0 at wdc0 unit 0 wd0: wd1 at wdc0 unit 1 wd1: ahc0 at 0x1000-0x10ff irq 11 on eisa slot 1 ahc0: = Rev E, 16 SCBs> ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0: target 0 synchronous at 10.0MB/s, offset = 0x19 sd0 at ahc0 target 0 unit 0 sd0: ahc0: Probing Channel B ix0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 maddr 0xd0000 msize 32768 on isa ix0: npx0 on motherboard npx0: root on sd0a fstype ufs Notes: - Don't print more than one line of CPU information unless booted with -v. Once we go multi-processor, then we could do cool things like: cpu0: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) cpu0: cpu1: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) cpu1: - The ethernet adapter messages are a bit of a sore point for me. Typically you don't see vendor information displayed for ethernet interfaces since they tend to be built into workstation class (or larger) machines. But since not all PCs have built in ethernet and since there are a large number of ethernet adapter vendors, it's probably a good idea to do it this way. - As Peter has already noted, there are problems involved in generating SCSI probe messages in the way I've suggested. I agree and I have no idea how to fix it, at least not when using a kernel config that doesn't 'wire down' devices to particular targets. (Current opinion is that the 'assign numbers automatically to SCSI devices in the order in which we find them' behavior is the default, and the 'wire down devices to specific busses/targets' behavior is a special case. I happen to think it should be the other way around. This might be because I'm a control freak; I want to tell the system how I want the devices arranged, I don't want it to tell me. I'm also accustomed to doing it that way with SunOS.) It seems to me though that in a configuration where you have wired down the devices and already know where they're supposed to end up by the time you've probed them, this should be a problem. - The ahc driver prints out more than just two lines in my example, but I feel this is justified by the fact that it's something of a special case; since it has two channels, you'd sort of like to know when it's probing them. The 'target 0 synchronous at 10.0Mb/s' message probably ought to go away. I think SunOS used to print messages like this in 4.1.2, but I'm pretty sure they ditched them by the time they reached 4.1.3. So long as all the SCSI controllers that generate such messages use the same format, I could probably live with them. - The lp0 TCP/IP device is a weird one because it's a driver implemented within another driver. It's not really a device that's attached to the printer port, it *is* the printer port. This is why the message says 'lp0 at lpt0' and nothing else (there is no unit number). - We don't print any secondary information for psm0. There are no vendor strings for PS/2 mouse controllers, or for PS/2 mice for that matter. Still, if someone wanted a line that said something like 'psm0: ' I wouldn't complain too loudly. - I have no idea what exactly should be done with the PCI probe messages, except that they should probably try to follow the format of the others if possible. Ditto for the eisaconf stuff too. - I don't have a kernel with sound support handy, but now that we have proper config options for the sound driver, it should follow this pattern too. - I like angle brackets for historical reasons. I don't like braces. 'Nuff said. > Assuming that the syntax can be agreed upon, is that enough detail to > go on? I'd prefer not to debate this for a long time or we will end > up doing what we usually end up doing at the end of long debates: Nothing. > > Jordan I don't want to beat it to death either, but I also don't want to be stuck with your proposed syntax. :) -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1: "We can kick your operating system's ass!" ~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 14:29:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16899 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:29:29 -0700 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.222.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16889 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:29:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21109 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 14:29:31 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA29031; Sat, 29 Apr 95 15:20:42 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504292120.AA29031@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Building off a CDROM To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 15:20:41 MDT Cc: pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil, bde@zeta.org.au, FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504280028.CAA08509@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 28, 95 02:28:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I *loved* the SunSoft CD > How did U. look at it, it's a weird format not 9660 > did U use a Sun ? Yeah; It's not binary software for BSD. That's what I was suggesting: binary commercial software for BSD, locked out with an activation key that you can use as a demo, but have to give a credit card # and recieve a FAX to run as the non-demo version. No additional physical echange of books or disks is needed. As for the HSFS file system, it's relatively trivial to write one once you have a VFS-to-block-I/O FS already written and you have access to the Sun header files to document the format for you. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 15:37:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21354 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:37:35 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21345 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 15:37:31 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA29227; Sat, 29 Apr 95 16:30:49 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504292230.AA29227@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Translators needed urgently! To: jkh@morton.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 16:30:48 MDT Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 01:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like to have at least the top level README, and perhaps the > INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the > next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: > > Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian English, French, Italian, German, Spanish, and Japanese is the traditional "FIGS" order. The Marketing order is English, Spanish, French/Japanese, Other. Personally, I'd like to see locale data done at the same time. I guess I can hold off evangelizing message catalogs for a while. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 18:28:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04686 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:28:52 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04680 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:28:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00510; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:18:09 GMT Message-Id: <199504291818.SAA00510@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:52:21 +0200." <199504292052.WAA16223@blaise.ibp.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:18:07 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Ollivier Robert said: > > Java has an interpreted language built in, so you can download scripts > > that actually _interact_ with the user locally. I don't think you > > That should open a big can of worms too (aka security holes)... > Yeap!, like possibly displacing tcl and perl and propel us into the area of of distributed agents, object oriented gui applications , etc... Not too mention the posibility of hacking on micro-controllers since Java has its origin as a micro-controller program language. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 18:33:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04732 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:33:40 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04726 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:33:37 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA22416; Sat, 29 Apr 95 18:32:00 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA07517; Sat, 29 Apr 95 21:32:53 EDT Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: Ollivier Robert Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hot Java.. In-Reply-To: <199504292052.WAA16223@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When I first overheard someone describing this capability of Java, I leaned back in my chair to reminisce about the bad old days and a beast called NeWS (Network Extensible Windowing System) by Sun. Thankfully I thought it had died out years ago when this upstart called X11R3 hit the streets. ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== On Sat, 29 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Java has an interpreted language built in, so you can download scripts > > that actually _interact_ with the user locally. I don't think you > > That should open a big can of worms too (aka security holes)... > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD keltia 2.0.950416-SNAP #17: Sun Apr 16 17:12:07 MET DST 1995 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 19:06:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA05129 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:06:40 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05123 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:06:36 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA26931; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:06:35 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504300206.TAA26931@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: The Party tonite. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <14974.799184143@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 12:35:43 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 220 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 1/ what party? 2/ #include jordan's questions.. > > A couple of questions: > > 1. How many will be showing up? > > 2. How do I get there? I seem to have misplaced my copy of the directions! :-( > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 19:15:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA05366 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:15:36 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05352 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:15:30 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA00666; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:17:44 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504300217.WAA00666@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: Translators needed urgently! To: jkh@morton.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 01:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1507 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, > > Well, ahem.. Let me be more precise.. Just as soon as I have > something for them to translate, then they're needed urgently! :-) > > That's why I haven't made much noise about this up to now, but it > occurs to me that I'd better have my contact list well in order now if > I'm have any hope at all for a fast turnaround on translations for > 2.0.5. > > I'd like to have at least the top level README, and perhaps the > INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the > next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: > > Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian Oh God ... Hope someone's already volunteered for Russian ( the FreeBSD is N1 Unix "flavor" over there , BTW ), but if not - I can do it :) > > The new sysinstall has a menu for setting the language type and will > look first in help/${LANG}/ if LANG is set, which the > installer also allows you to do from a convenient menu. > > I'm going for only the european languages as I'm not certain I'll be > able to fit the Japanese fonts on the first floppy. I can certainly > do ISO-8859-1, which gets me pretty much all the european ones, and > koi8 is also small. If I *can* manage Japanese then I certainly will, > of course, but I don't even have a syscons font or screen map for it > yet. > > Oh yes, anyone helping out with a translation will, of course, receive > a free 2.0.5 CDROM! 2 even! :-) WOW !!! :) Would you sign it ? Along with McKusick? :)) > Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 19:37:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06033 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:37:28 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06021 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:37:21 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id WAA15466; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:32:46 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504300232.WAA15466@hda.com> Subject: Re: What I'd *really like* for 2.0.5y To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504292034.NAA12363@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Apr 29, 95 01:34:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1952 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Morgan Davis writes: > > Peter Dufault writes: > > > > The verbose flag could become bit patterns. One bit can be "log > > failures". And we could zap the kernel or the boot block > > to keep the flag settings (zapping boot block is nice since you could > > zap in your boot file name as well, including a "no pause before boot" > > zap). > > Maybe there is a way to actually write a default boot prompt command > line, so that it is humanly easy to record without the need of > consulting a bit chart and a calculator or a special utility? I was thinking more about how the kernel code would be written and not the user interface to these flag bits. I expect we'd use different command line flags, for example "-v" for all possible messages, "-f" for failures as well as successes, etc., with the kernel setting the bit patterns for us after it examined the flags the booter passed. Otherwise I can see it now: "Try booting with -v 0xdeadbeef..." > defaultboot "kernel -v" > > This would allow you to include a path to a different kernel and > arguments -- perhaps if you're doing a bunch of testing and need a > non-standard way of booting up. And, of course, it would also let you > control the verbose mode (and any other modes) as you see fit. > > I suggest that the boot code display this before the boot prompt so > that you know what will happen if you don't intervene and the bootcode > times out waiting for input. If it times out, it uses the default > boot command line. Ideally you'd just print the default boot line and let them edit it via line editing, but I consider the booter to be off limits due to space considerations. I was wondering if anyone would complain about "zapping" the file name because we don't have space for alternate extensions. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 19:44:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA06252 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:44:37 -0700 Received: from mac20.ct.monash.edu.au (mac20.ct.monash.edu.au [130.194.226.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA06246 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:44:34 -0700 Received: (from sjlai@localhost) by mac20.ct.monash.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA11264 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 10:45:10 +1000 From: Simon Lai Message-Id: <199504300045.KAA11264@mac20.ct.monash.edu.au> Subject: More commercial recognition To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 10:45:10 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 826 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For what its worth, found in the comp.unix.osf.osf1 newsgroup, article subject is "New Microkernel Performance ...". We are compared with OSF's MK6 operating system performance (though I read a paper on microkernels vs. monolithic kernels that said the same thing some time ago). The relevant bit - "The program compared performance measurements of OSF's MK6 microkernel operating system and other Unix systems. Performance measurements on HP-PA workstations show the RI's modular system is comparable to Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX operating system. The research also compares performance on the Intel 486 PC and shows the Research Institute's system is equal to or better than commercially available Unix systems such as Solaris 2.1, SCO UNIX, Sys V R4.2 and Free BSD." Is there no such thing as bad publicity ? simon From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 20:15:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA07042 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:15:45 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07035 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:15:32 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <135>; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:27:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:26:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Verbose vs. non-verbose In-Reply-To: <199504291724.KAA09531@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > BusLogic kinda screws things up here by nuking the vendor ID if the BIOS > is running in ISA compatibility I/O address mode :-(. My Buslogic has the ISA compatibility enabled and it returns a valid vendor ID. I thought this had something to do with using the jumpers to set the system BIOS location? Or, is this yet another firmware difference? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 20:59:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA07709 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:59:58 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA07703 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 20:59:54 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06441 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:50:57 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA06714; 29 Apr 95 22:50:10 CDT (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA06711; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:50:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199504300350.WAA06711@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Simon Lai Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: More commercial recognition In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 30 Apr 95 10:45:10 +1000." <199504300045.KAA11264@mac20.ct.monash.edu.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:50:06 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I notice they didn't include BSDI, but they did inclkude FreeBSD. And their list was supposedly of commercial operating systems. Praising with faint damns. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 21:33:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA08395 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:33:42 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA08387 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:33:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (uucp@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with UUCP id NAA15972; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 13:14:07 +0900 Received: by tama.spec.co.jp (8.6.11/6.4J.5) id NAA00286; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 13:03:59 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai Message-Id: <199504300403.NAA00286@tama.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: DHCP on FreeBSD (was Re: yeah, what is the deal with this?) (fwd) To: sa2c@and.or.jp (NIIMI Satoshi) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 13:03:58 +0900 (JST) Cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1323 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: >From amurai Mon Apr 24 23:51:09 1995 Subject: Re: DHCP on FreeBSD (was Re: yeah, what is the deal with this?) To: sa2c@and.or.jp (NIIMI Satoshi) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:51:09 +0900 (JST) Cc: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504241042.TAA01684@us.and.or.jp> from "NIIMI Satoshi" at Apr 24, 95 07:42:03 pm Reply-To: amurai@spec.co.jp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 699 > I saw an announcement of WIDE DHCP in fj.* newsgroup a few days ago, > but it didn't support FreeBSD box. Oh Really?? It used to be supporting FreeBSD 2.0(1.1.5?) when I got it (1.5 month ago!?). > I think someone (Mr. Murai?) is working to port it for FreeBSD 2.x. I am NOT working, but it's can be WORKING(compiling, except one of sample library) with few changes. Just choice a "BSD-4.4" stuffs for Makefile and some includes path/name ;-) > -- > NIIMI Satoshi > Atsushi. # $BF|K\8l$bDL$8$l$P$b$C$H3Z$J$N$G$7$g$&$1$I!#(B -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 -- Atsushi Murai Internet: amurai@spec.co.jp System Planning and Engineering Co,.Ltd. Voice : +81-33833-5341 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 22:22:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09298 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:22:32 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09292 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:22:11 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA14142 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:21:21 +1000 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:21:21 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504300521.PAA14142@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: aspfilter & stdin Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> FreeBSD 2.0 introduces something new, which made this necessary: >> >> #ifdef __FreeBSD__ >NOOO! >I'm not sure which systems define the 2nd parameter of lseek() to >be off_t. Anyway, from /usr/ports/GUIDELINES: >0.2 The preferred way to tell 4.3BSD/Reno and newer versions of the BSD code > apart is by using the "BSD" macro defined in . Hopefully that > file is already included; if not, add the code: >* #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H >* #include >* #endif >... NOOOOOOO !:-) All POSIX systems declare the 2nd parameter of lseek() to be off_t. To decide if the system is POSIX, you can try #include #include #ifdef _POSIX_VERSION ... This may fail if or doesn't exist, or if the system defines _POSIX_VERSION but isn't POSIX. Something like gnu autoconfig is required to build and run test programs that decide if the headers exists and if lseek() exists and works. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 22:55:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA09857 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:55:24 -0700 Received: from ns2.redline.ru (ns2.redline.ru [194.87.69.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA09810 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:53:48 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by ns2.redline.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04509 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 09:51:19 +0400 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 09:51:19 +0400 From: Charlie Root Message-Id: <199504300551.JAA04509@ns2.redline.ru> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: please update /dev/MAKEDEV Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk *** ./MAKEDEV.orig Sun Apr 30 09:47:21 1995 --- ./MAKEDEV Sun Apr 30 09:50:03 1995 *************** *** 25,30 **** --- 25,31 ---- # all makes all known devices, standard number of units (or close) # std standard devices # local configuration specific devices + # mach-4 mach4&lites+devices for mach's XFree # # Tapes: # wt* QIC-interfaced (e.g. not SCSI) 3M cartridge tape *************** std) *** 177,182 **** --- 178,190 ---- chmod 666 fd/* ;; + mach-4) + mknod iopl c 22 0 + mknod kbd c 23 0 + mknod mouse c 24 0 + mknod time c 25 0 + mknod timezone c 26 0 + ;; # Create device files for new Archive/Wangtek QIC-02 tape driver (vak) wt*) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 23:44:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA10811 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:44:17 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-5-98.gw.umn.edu [128.101.96.98]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10805 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:44:02 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA05486; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 01:43:49 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504300643.BAA05486@mpp.com> Subject: Re: Screen print capability To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 01:43:49 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, sos@login.dknet.dk In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Apr 29, 95 03:55:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2505 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199504282254.RAA03844@mpp.com> Mike Pritchard writes: > >I implemented a /dev/screen device with code adapted from subr_log.c > >(/dev/klog). A daemon process (screend) sits and waits via select until > >a print screen event is generated. This event is generated by any of > >the combinations of the print_screen key that currently generate a NOP: > >shift+print, alt+print, and so on. When the waiting process wakes up, > >it will read the current screen contents (which can be something from > >the history buffer if you scroll back and hit the print screen button > >at that time). > > I think it should be implemented in another way. Arguments: > We have almost-true SCO console (syscons). > SCO console have escape to print out screen contents > and ioctl to grab screen contents and Alt-PrintScreen works there. > We need to ask Soren to implement this stuff in standard SCO > compatible way. > -- > Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, Are you saying that SCO consoles allow some type of escape sequence to be output to the screen to print the screen? Trivial to add to my current code, but I'm not sure I like the idea, since if I accidently cat a binary I might wind up doing 20 screen prints, or someone might send me a mail-bomb with 20 of those escape sequences in it. Even if the screen contents are returned via an ioctl instead of a read, you still need some mechanisim to wait for a screen print event (screend, and I'll pick another name) and then suck up the contents and print them out. With up to 16 virtual consoles, creating a special /dev/screen device to allow access to the current display seemed more reasonable than having to work with up to 16 /dev/ttyv* devices and then trying to shoehorn something onto that interface that wasn't a total kludge and didn't cause other side effects. Are there any SCO applications that we really want to support that rely on a screen capture mechanisim that works in a certain way? If so, then I'll be glad to do things that way if someone would just tell me what the external interface needs to look like. However, my current method should also be adaptable to PCVT type consoles with minimal work. This allows us to be more flexible, instead of limiting ourselves to an SCO type interface and having to duplicate code in two different areas (in syscons & pcvt). -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 29 23:59:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA10916 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:59:12 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA10907 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:59:05 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05145; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 08:58:48 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA05627 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 08:58:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA03233 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 07:39:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504300539.HAA03233@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Translators needed urgently! To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 07:39:57 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504292020.NAA05829@morton.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 29, 95 01:20:05 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 844 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'd like to have at least the top level README, and perhaps the > INSTALL guide (both of which I'll be revamping substantially in the > next 24 hours or so) in the following languages: > > Dutch, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian As usual (:-), i can take German. Anyway, it must be before May 7. > ... I can certainly > do ISO-8859-1, which gets me pretty much all the european ones, and > koi8 is also small. The *western* european ones. :) Things like Czech look ugly in ISO-8859-1. Polish might be okay, AFAIK they've got only one special character. This is not to say i'd do the Czech part... it would look funny. D'ya need someone for Polish? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)