From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed Nov 22 12:03:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA06848 for hubs-outgoing; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:03:03 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06802 ; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:02:33 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA20371; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:51:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:51:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Reply-To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: FreeBSD-hubs mailing list. To: hubs@freebsd.org cc: announce@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD-hubs, a new mailing list, is now available at FreeBSD-hubs@FreeBSD.org. This list provides a coordination point and discussion forum for those individuals interested in providing one of at least 3 services to the FreeBSD community: sup server ftp server mail exploder This list is not the place to discuss setting up private sup, ftp, or mail lists. Please discuss those issues in either FreeBSD-questions or if you are an Internet Service Provider FreeBSD-isp. Discussions are based on the premise that you will be providing one of these services in the near future. Or that you have done so in the past and wish to contribute your expertise to our growing number of information distribution hubs. You can subscribe to FreeBSD-hubs by sending mail containing the line "subscribe FreeBSD-hubs" to majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG NOTE: you are NOT subscribed to FreeBSD-hubs at this time. this announcement has been mailed to FreeBSD-Announce. NOTE: if you are the maintainer of an ftp mirror site for FreeBSD as listed in /usr/src/release/MIRROR.SITES, i have taken the liberty of subscribing you to FreeBSD-hubs. to unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org containing the line "unsubscribe FreeBSD-hubs" jmb Jonathan M. Bresler | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed Nov 22 16:08:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA25233 for hubs-outgoing; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:08:43 -0800 Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25209 ; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:08:31 -0800 Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA19359; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 19:08:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 19:08:14 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: hubs@freebsd.org, announce@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-hubs mailing list. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > This list provides a coordination point and discussion forum for those > individuals interested in providing one of at least 3 services to the > FreeBSD community: > > sup server > ftp server > mail exploder I would add: www mirror A sup target for the WWW pages has been created on freefall to assist those interested in mirroring http://www.freebsd.org/. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed Nov 22 18:58:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA05780 for hubs-outgoing; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 18:58:17 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA05770 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 18:58:11 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id VAA00947; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 21:47:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 21:47:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Revamping Mail distribution To: Mike Grupenhoff cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Mike Grupenhoff wrote: > On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > Agreed. Anyway, we should start with a low-traffic list like > > > freebsd-chat, since an accidental mail loop on -hackers will certainly > > > melt down poor freefall. > > > > starting with a low-traffic list is the way to go. > > > > if a site is ready to try this....i can coordinate with them to > > begin the process. > > Forgive me if I misunderstand here, but it sounds like you are planning > on splitting the address list across multiple "exploder" machines, > correct? that is one method we are discussing for mail. ftp, sup and www would require multiple sites. > If this is the case, I'd like to suggest an alternate approach. Why not > keep the address list centralized on freefall, and use other machines as > gateways for hunks of each list. For example, you could have a rule: > > *.umd.edu *.udel.edu *.digex.net -> umiacs.umd.edu > > and majordomo would blast all addresses for these domains to > umiacs.umd.edu. (Please don't do this! :) Any delivery problems, > queueing, etc, would be handled by umiacs.umd.edu. what! my alma mater is not volunteering umiacs to us....well there goes my alumni check ;) this is another method that is being considered. i have not yet heard of a third suggested method. > The benefit of this approach would be that all configuration, etc, is > still located on freefall (and under your control). In fact, as long as > the remote sites are running mostly-normal versions of sendmail, they > don't even have to do anything to set this up. > > This obviously would require some hacking to majordomo, but it shouldn't > be too bad. I'd be willing to help, time permitting. not bad at all. the majordomo perl code is tractable as is the bulk_mailer code. dont expect it to take more than an evening for each. we will need sites to volunteer as distribution points either way. providing one service does not oblige a site to offer all 4 (ftp mirror, sup server, www server, mail). jmb Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu Nov 23 09:14:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA17508 for hubs-outgoing; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:14:35 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17503 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:14:29 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA25736; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:03:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:03:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Newgroups in place of mail To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 17:48 MET From: Michael Elbel To: terry@lambert.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >By two staging all list implementations: Say, does this look like news or not? Maybe we should actually consider using news as the "backbone transport" between the various exploders? Locally they then can be sent out to the end users via mail or be kept as newsgroups at larger sites (ok, I'm using newsgroups here locally, so I'm biased, but then, its so much easier to look through the lists if they are a) in separate newsgroups b) subjects are threaded). This would of course be done by explicit nntp links between e.g. freefall and the local exploders, keeping delays down to what we're used from mail. Michael -- Michael Elbel, DITEC, Muenchen, Germany - me@muc.ditec.de Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu Nov 23 09:35:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA18316 for hubs-outgoing; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:35:07 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18308 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:35:01 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA26244; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:24:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:24:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: 3 mail proposals. To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk we have three alternatives under dicussion: 1. mail exploders using two-tiered (correct name?) lists to eliminate mail loops. freebsd-hackers --> distrib-hackers distrib-hackers --> local hackers subscribers remote distrib-hackers lists 2. "source route" the mail. for example: one mail message for all subsribers at umd.edu, digex.edu, md.us, va.us, and other sites well connected to umd.edu gets sent to xxx.umd.edu for automatic distribution 3. newsgroups, use nntp to send the "mail" out to other sites. my thoughts: two-tiers: misconfiguration creates mail loops decrease the amount of mail flowing from freefall significantly requires local administration at each site bounces remain local coordinate list creation supports national lists, groups, languages on parallel lists (whole seperate can of worms) forces me to finally do the majordomo port ;)) source-route mail: no loops possible decrease the amount of mail flowing from freefall significantly no local administration bounces come back to freefall no coordination required (hmm...sounds about right ;) no support for local lists newgroups: no mail, no loops decrease load on freefall, deliver a few hubs only requires local administration at each site no bounces requires newgroups coordination supports local newgroups (some already exist) invites the usenet "unwashed masses" into the lists ;((((((( ( THE reason this has not been done. SNR --> 0 ) cannot fully replace mail lists what do you all think about these ? what considerations have i left out ? what will serve the community best ? jmb Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu Nov 23 13:15:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA29155 for hubs-outgoing; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 13:15:58 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29146 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 13:15:52 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id QAA01789; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 16:04:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 16:04:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: NNTP as transport for mail (fwd) To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:28:39 -0800 From: Jordan K. Hubbard To: Joe Greco Cc: me@gw.muc.ditec.de, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! > I would suggest using NNTP strictly as a transport protocol. Bury the > articles in an encoded format in a moderated newsgroup, so that people don't > try to use the transport newsgroup to read or post messages. At each hub, > you can install channel feeds for the transport newsgroup that pipe the > articles into an extraction/verification filter. The filter then turns > around and submits the decoded and verified message into Sendmail (and/or > INN under a different group name). I would say that if our postmaster agrees with this, and wants to do it this way, then it's purely his business and you guys should just set it up. Not to sound perfunctory about it, I'm simply trying to make the point that if it makes his life easier and delivers better service (which is a big goal of his little department) then he should use whatever tools are available and nobody has any *place* shooting it down. Likewise, since he's doing the work, if he decides he can't or doesn't want to deal with the complexity then we really can't force him to say yes. His area of responsibility, hence his decision. To me, it actually sounds pretty cool! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu Nov 23 22:31:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA27589 for hubs-outgoing; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 22:31:21 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA27577 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 22:31:13 -0800 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA28235; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 07:32:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199511240632.HAA28235@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 07:32:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: j@tcd-dresden.de (user alias), freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Nov 22, 95 11:08:40 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1284 Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > > > ad-hoc, i'd say ftp.germany.eu.net would be a reasonable default > > server for Germany. It's not on the official mirror list, but i know > > that they are mirroring the distributions. Short of this, "kuku"'s > > gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de would also be possible (but i'm afraid of > > overloading it -- Christoph?). gil is in fact at present only a 20MB 486/33 SCSI system sufficient to act as a ftp server. blues is a DX2/66 w 32MB acting as a sup server now. In January I will do a CPU upgrade to a Pentium perhaps. > > Aachen has a sunsite sponsored by sun as usual. This machine should > be large enough to manage the additional traffic ... Or am I mistaken ? It is more an administrative thing then, I believe. I will talk to the administrator of that site. Are we talking about a mail hub here? > > Andreas /// > > -- > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > \/ > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz > apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hubs Fri Nov 24 00:46:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA05834 for hubs-outgoing; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 00:46:35 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA05633 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 00:43:54 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA02623; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:43:06 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA23247; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:43:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA00162; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:31:38 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511240831.JAA00162@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 09:31:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, j@tcd-dresden.de, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511240632.HAA28235@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Nov 24, 95 07:32:02 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 412 Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > I will talk to the administrator of that site. Are we talking about a mail > hub here? I think so. I'd rather like to see some very well-connected and central site like ftp.germany.eu.net as `official' ftp server. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hubs Fri Nov 24 10:45:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA12708 for hubs-outgoing; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 10:45:25 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12702 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 10:45:15 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id NAA05686; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 13:31:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 13:31:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Andreas Klemm , user alias , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511240632.HAA28235@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, Christoph Kukulies wrote: > It is more an administrative thing then, I believe. > I will talk to the administrator of that site. Are we talking about a mail > hub here? if you volunteer, YES! we will need several mail hubs in europe ;) Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hubs Fri Nov 24 14:41:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-hubs Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA28280 for hubs-outgoing; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 14:41:34 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA28269 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 14:41:30 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA18352 ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 23:41:09 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA02591 ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 23:41:07 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id VAA24786; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 21:29:43 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199511242029.VAA24786@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: 2.1.0-RELEASE now available! To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 21:29:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, andreas@knobel.gun.de, j@tcd-dresden.de, freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Nov 24, 95 01:31:03 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1354 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hubs@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jonathan M. Bresler said: > > I will talk to the administrator of that site. Are we talking about a mail > > hub here? > > if you volunteer, YES! we will need several mail hubs in europe ;) I'm in the process of setting one in France. Give me a few days and I will have fr.freebsd.org ready. The mail hub will follow. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Nov 6 21:08:06 MET 1995