From owner-cvs-etc Sun Jun 16 15:34:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25057 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jun 1996 15:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25039; Sun, 16 Jun 1996 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Satoshi Asami Message-Id: <199606162234.PAA25039@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.local.dist Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk asami 96/06/16 15:34:00 Branch: etc/mtree RELENG_2_1_0 Modified: etc/mtree BSD.local.dist Log: Merge from HEAD: create .../etc/rc.d. Without this change the new apache startup scripts won't install correctly. Revision Changes Path 1.11.4.5 +3 -1 src/etc/mtree/BSD.local.dist From owner-cvs-etc Mon Jun 17 02:18:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA04010 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 02:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA03968; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 02:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 02:17:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199606170917.CAA03968@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc csh.login hosts make.conf netstart profile rc security services sysconfig syslog.conf termcap.small src/etc/etc.i386 rc.i386 src/etc/mtree BSD.var.dist src/etc/ppp ppp.conf.iij ppp.conf.sample ppp.linkup.sample Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jkh 96/06/17 02:17:56 Branch: etc RELENG_2_1_0 etc/etc.i386 RELENG_2_1_0 etc/mtree RELENG_2_1_0 etc/ppp RELENG_2_1_0 Modified: etc csh.login hosts make.conf netstart profile rc security services sysconfig syslog.conf termcap.small etc/etc.i386 rc.i386 etc/mtree BSD.var.dist etc/ppp ppp.conf.iij ppp.conf.sample ppp.linkup.sample Log: Merge very small, selected parts of this directory from HEAD. Mostly motivated by a desire to see the local_startup stuff work correctly for the packages collection in 2.1.5. Revision Changes Path 1.10.4.4 +2 -4 src/etc/csh.login 1.5.4.4 +2 -4 src/etc/hosts 1.17.4.6 +25 -6 src/etc/make.conf 1.32.4.6 +17 -20 src/etc/netstart 1.2.4.4 +4 -6 src/etc/profile 1.66.4.13 +26 -23 src/etc/rc 1.8.4.3 +10 -3 src/etc/security 1.11.4.7 +2 -1 src/etc/services 1.14.4.11 +70 -32 src/etc/sysconfig 1.2.8.3 +2 -0 src/etc/syslog.conf 1.14.4.3 +1 -1 src/etc/termcap.small 1.9.4.5 +19 -28 src/etc/etc.i386/rc.i386 1.23.4.3 +2 -2 src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist 1.1.1.1.4.3 +4 -4 src/etc/ppp/ppp.conf.iij 1.3.4.3 +17 -11 src/etc/ppp/ppp.conf.sample 1.1.1.1.4.3 +7 -7 src/etc/ppp/ppp.linkup.sample From owner-cvs-etc Tue Jun 18 18:28:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15339 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15316; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606190128.SAA15316@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc pccard.conf.sample Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk nate 96/06/18 18:28:08 Modified: etc pccard.conf.sample Log: Remove the hardcoding of the IRQ, and instead have it determine a free IRQ. For now only enable on the 3C589 until other cards have been tested. Revision Changes Path 1.4 +3 -3 src/etc/pccard.conf.sample From owner-cvs-etc Wed Jun 19 14:42:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25617 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA25565; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 14:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606192142.OAA25565@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc rc Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk nate 96/06/19 14:42:00 Branch: etc RELENG_2_1_0 Modified: etc rc Log: rpc.yppasswd doesn't exist in -stable. Use yppasswd instead. Revision Changes Path 1.66.4.14 +2 -2 src/etc/rc From owner-cvs-etc Fri Jun 21 17:55:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15141 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA15084; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:54:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Nash Message-Id: <199606220054.RAA15084@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc rc.firewall Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk alex 96/06/21 17:54:37 Modified: etc rc.firewall Log: Flush out the rules before adding entries. This prevents duplicate rules from appearing when switching back and forth from single to multi-user modes. Revision Changes Path 1.3 +5 -1 src/etc/rc.firewall From owner-cvs-etc Fri Jun 21 23:02:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01431 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01415; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199606220602.XAA01415@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk phk 96/06/21 23:02:48 Modified: etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist Log: Add tcl related directories. Revision Changes Path 1.60 +7 -1 src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist From owner-cvs-etc Fri Jun 21 23:15:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA02173 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA02118; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA15802; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:15:11 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:15:11 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199606220615.AAA15802@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-Reply-To: <199606220602.XAA01415@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199606220602.XAA01415@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Modified: etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist > Log: > Add tcl related directories. I thought the general consensus from the developers was the TCL and the resulting nightmare was a bad idea. I don't know of any developer besides Jordan and you who want this, and Jordan appears to have washed his hands of this, so it's your wishes against the wishes of everyone else. I was going to wipe out the TCL stuff this weekend if you didn't get to it. Nate From owner-cvs-etc Fri Jun 21 23:29:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA03879 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (critter.cdrom.com [204.216.27.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03871; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA14174; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:28:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Nate Williams cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:15:11 MDT." <199606220615.AAA15802@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:28:08 -0700 Message-ID: <14172.835424888@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-cvs-etc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199606220615.AAA15802@rocky.sri.MT.net>, Nate Williams writes: >> Modified: etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist >> Log: >> Add tcl related directories. > >I thought the general consensus from the developers was the TCL and the >resulting nightmare was a bad idea. No that was >not< the general consensus, you are at best confusing several issues, or more likely, grinding your private axe in public. Just because you didn't use Tcl the right way when you tried, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing in general. By including it in FreeBSD, you will get access to code that will maybe be able to show you why various heavy-weights call it "the most significant event in the history of software tools". >I don't know of any developer besides Jordan and you who want this, and >Jordan appears to have washed his hands of this, so it's your wishes >against the wishes of everyone else. Maybe you don't read all your email, but I read all mine. >I was going to wipe out the TCL stuff this weekend if you didn't get to it. Don't. The closest we got to a common concensus of any kind is that "things shall be bmaked", a document about this policy is being reviewed right now bu Peter who was the only one that really showed any informed interest in the subject (as opposed to people going balistic or beating their chest) and tcl will be converted to that model, probably during the weekend. (Which means another semi-big cvs delta btw, sorry!) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 00:04:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA06808 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06797; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA13415; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:08:07 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606220738.RAA13415@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:08:06 +0930 (CST) Cc: phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606220615.AAA15802@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jun 22, 96 00:15:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > I thought the general consensus from the developers was the TCL and the > resulting nightmare was a bad idea. The way it was done was, IMHO, wrong. But we _do_ want Tcl and a more current Perl in the tree. And other widely-accepted development tools, particularly those that are components (like Tcl and Perl) rather than whole applications (eg UPS). > I don't know of any developer besides Jordan and you who want this, and > Jordan appears to have washed his hands of this, so it's your wishes > against the wishes of everyone else. I want it. I can imagine that quite a few other people would benefit from it. If nobody else will stand up for it, I'll undertake to bmake Tcl and TclX, and to maintain them as parts of the base system. I won't be available for discussion for all of July, so I'll see what August brings and take whatever common consensus recomments. Someone should stand up and wear the new Perl. And I'd suggest the anti-bloatists stop and think a few seconds before bitching. Look at what disk space (doesn't) cost. Consider the advantages of having one _single_standard_ version. And the fact that Someone Else will be looking after it, not you. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 00:28:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA08669 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08625; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost.grondar.za [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA13561; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 09:27:16 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199606220727.JAA13561@grumble.grondar.za> To: Michael Smith cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 09:27:15 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > The way it was done was, IMHO, wrong. But we _do_ want Tcl and a more > current Perl in the tree. And other widely-accepted development tools, > particularly those that are components (like Tcl and Perl) rather than > whole applications (eg UPS). Hear hear! (More current Perl!) > Someone should stand up and wear the new Perl. Hmm... Last time I just _suggested_ this, the flamew^h^h^h^h^hdiscussion was a thing to behold :-). I could help lots with Perl. Things are changing, and I will have much more time to do this. > And I'd suggest the anti-bloatists stop and think a few seconds before > bitching. > > Look at what disk space (doesn't) cost. Consider the advantages of having > one _single_standard_ version. And the fact that Someone Else will > be looking after it, not you. Hear, Hear! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 06:05:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26744 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 06:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA26715; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 06:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 06:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Joerg Wunsch Message-Id: <199606221305.GAA26715@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc daily rc Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk joerg 96/06/22 06:05:21 Modified: etc daily rc Log: Add a few hints about the cleaning policy of /tmp, including an example (commented out) for how to purge it regularly. Revision Changes Path 1.19 +24 -0 src/etc/daily 1.92 +18 -1 src/etc/rc From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 07:28:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA04470 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA04450; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 07:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous218.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.218]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA06718; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:07:04 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00553; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:28:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:28:09 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199606221228.OAA00553@campa.panke.de> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Nate Williams , Poul-Henning Kamp , CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-Reply-To: <14172.835424888@critter.tfs.com> References: <199606220615.AAA15802@rocky.sri.MT.net> <14172.835424888@critter.tfs.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-cvs-etc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >The closest we got to a common concensus of any kind is that "things shall >be bmaked", You have my OK for *bmaked* tcl, java, python. >a document about this policy is being reviewed right now bu >Peter who was the only one that really showed any informed interest in the >subject (as opposed to people going balistic or beating their chest) You forgot broken modem connections, a bill from the Deutsche Telekom, not searchable sources etc. >and >tcl will be converted to that model, probably during the weekend. (Which >means another semi-big cvs delta btw, sorry!) Please remove the *.tar.gz.uu* by hand, nobody need a Attic/*tar.gz.uu*. Thanks! Wolfram From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 10:08:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA19060 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19012; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-2) with ESMTP id RAA19277; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:57:16 +0100 (BST) To: Wolfram Schneider cc: CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:28:09 +0200." <199606221228.OAA00553@campa.panke.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:57:15 +0100 Message-ID: <19275.835462635@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-cvs-etc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Schneider wrote in message ID <199606221228.OAA00553@campa.panke.de>: > Please remove the *.tar.gz.uu* by hand, nobody need a > Attic/*tar.gz.uu*. Thanks! Already done, it seems: 1996-06-22 06:13 ctm: > FR src/lib/tcl/Attic/patch01,v 1996-06-22 06:13 ctm: > FR src/lib/tcl/Attic/patch02,v 1996-06-22 06:13 ctm: > FR src/lib/tcl/Attic/tcl7.5.tar.gz.uu,v Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 10:55:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23400 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (ppp-5-75.rdcy01.pacbell.net [206.170.5.75]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23394; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22908; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606221753.KAA22908@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Mark Murray cc: Michael Smith , nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jun 1996 09:27:15 +0200." <199606220727.JAA13561@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:53:38 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Let me try an alternate idea... How about we go through and find all the src perl scripts, figure out how central to using the system they are, and move them into ports on an as needed basis? If there's nothing depending upon perl, then we can just keep the perl5 port. Likewise, let's do the same with tcl before it becomes a problem. We need to be thinking about UNBUNDLING, not bundling further. The ports mechanism is so wonderful, it seems like a damn shame to ignore it in this circumstance. Paul From: Mark Murray Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist Michael Smith wrote: > The way it was done was, IMHO, wrong. But we _do_ want Tcl and a more > current Perl in the tree. And other widely-accepted development tools, > particularly those that are components (like Tcl and Perl) rather than > whole applications (eg UPS). Hear hear! (More current Perl!) > Someone should stand up and wear the new Perl. Hmm... Last time I just _suggested_ this, the flamew^h^h^h^h^hdiscussion was a thing to behold :-). I could help lots with Perl. Things are changing, and I will have much more time to do this. > And I'd suggest the anti-bloatists stop and think a few seconds before > bitching. > > Look at what disk space (doesn't) cost. Consider the advantages of having > one _single_standard_ version. And the fact that Someone Else will > be looking after it, not you. Hear, Hear! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 11:49:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA29828 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29819; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA12284; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:37:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Traina cc: Mark Murray , Michael Smith , nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:53:38 PDT." <199606221753.KAA22908@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:37:13 -0700 Message-ID: <12282.835468633@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If there's nothing depending upon perl, then we can just keep the perl5 > port. > > Likewise, let's do the same with tcl before it becomes a problem. Reasonable sentiments, but let's say now that I want to use TCL in a new version of pkg_install, or in `setup II - the next big adventure' - how do I add it to the world without a reliable source of TCL? Even doing some sort of src->ports linkup (which I've considered) would require that the ports collection become more or less mandatory *and* that the distfiles for any "depended on" ports were shipped with the system. It's the only way the user would be able to make the world from his or her src dist. Either way, it's a mess. Jordan From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 12:38:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04565 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 12:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04559; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 12:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous218.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.218]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA14225; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:27:49 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA07200; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:11:37 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:11:37 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199606221911.VAA07200@campa.panke.de> To: Paul Traina Cc: Mark Murray , Michael Smith , nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist In-Reply-To: <199606221753.KAA22908@precipice.shockwave.com> References: <199606220727.JAA13561@grumble.grondar.za> <199606221753.KAA22908@precipice.shockwave.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina writes: >Let me try an alternate idea... > >How about we go through and find all the src perl scripts, figure out >how central to using the system they are, and move them into ports on an >as needed basis? central: makewhatis, catman, adduser, sgmlfmt not central or easy to rewrite: which, killall, kbdmap/vidfont >If there's nothing depending upon perl, then we can just keep the perl5 >port. Many commercial Unix vendors shipped perl with their OS. See the Perl FAQ. Wolfram From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 14:34:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11043 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pst@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11001; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199606222134.OAA11001@freefall.freebsd.org> To: CVS-committers, cvs-all, cvs-etc Subject: cvs commit: src/etc newsyslog.conf Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk pst 96/06/22 14:34:06 Modified: etc newsyslog.conf Log: Add /var/log/ppp.log from iij ppp Revision Changes Path 1.6 +2 -1 src/etc/newsyslog.conf From owner-cvs-etc Sat Jun 22 23:07:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-cvs-etc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA03858 for cvs-etc-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03853; Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA15946; Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:09:21 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199606230639.QAA15946@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc/mtree BSD.usr.dist To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:09:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: mark@grondar.za, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, phk@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-committers@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-all@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-etc@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199606221753.KAA22908@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Jun 22, 96 10:53:38 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cvs-etc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina stands accused of saying: > > How about we go through and find all the src perl scripts, figure out > how central to using the system they are, and move them into ports on an > as needed basis? No. > Likewise, let's do the same with tcl before it becomes a problem. Also No. > We need to be thinking about UNBUNDLING, not bundling further. The ports > mechanism is so wonderful, it seems like a damn shame to ignore it in > this circumstance. The ports system works well for applications. It works poorly for subsystems. We can either try to remain a 70's vintage timeshare system with a pile of state-of-the art boltons, or we can try to drag ourselves towards the 90s. We're already carrying a ton of questionable cruft (look in /usr/bin one of these days), so adding a few tools that are actually _useful_ might be setting a precedent, but it's not the one you're harping. If you want to suggest that we look at a more flexible installation system that allows for people that just want the bare bones, as well as those that want a more power combination, that's fine. The whole installation process is up for rework, and input is most decidedly invited. But suggesting that we should pare _down_ is just ludicrous under the current circumstances. > Paul -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[