From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 02:26:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10803 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 02:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10787 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 02:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA15885 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:26:25 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA21337 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:26:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA00504 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:05:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605190905.LAA00504@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: catman To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 11:05:35 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from invalid opcode at "May 18, 96 09:28:43 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As invalid opcode wrote: > It's obvious that catman is a Good Thing (tm), _except_ for the fact that > the old man files are still laying around. I have come to my own > conclusion that they are still needed because of makewhatis(1). I know > it's possible to catman a binarie's, etc's, manpages instead of just gzip > -9'ing them while doing a make world. Not only would this leave us... Huh? What are you talking all about here? The default for the man pages sources _is_ to keep them gzipped (and yes, man/catman/makewhatis do know how to handle this). If you don't like man page sources around, a simple rm -rf /usr/share/man/man* will do (as opposed to any black magic in catman(1)), as well as disabling makewhatis (so the existing makewhatis databases won't be clobbered). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 03:33:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA14852 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA14844 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA02039; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 03:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605191033.DAA02039@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: ccd@stampede.cs.berkeley.edu, current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605181848.EAA11220@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Sun, 19 May 1996 04:48:05 +1000) Subject: Re: some more on fast bcopy From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Bruce. * >OK, I implemented it. Will this work? * * It seems to work here. Goodie. :) I've been running this kernel on four machines around here, and haven't noticed anything strange. All I've seen is netscape crashing with SIGFPE on some applets but that also happens with the "slow" kernel so I guess it's not my bcopy's fault.... * I missed that. It would probably be cleanest to save it via %edx in * both cases. Both cases? Where is the other place that I need to save it? (Sorry for being so dumb.) * I'm running with a fast bzero (8 fstl's in a loop) too. It is much simpler * than fastmove since it doesn't need to worry about context switches. bcopy * need not worry either (except for bugs). Ok, so I guess I can modify bcopy to use this and it would work too, right? Although I'm not sure how much that will help (I don't think there are really big data movements from kernel space to kernel space, are there?).... Another place that it may help (and may fool lmbench and the likes :) is libc, do I need to the complicated FP state save/restore in there too? Or can that be a simple fnsave/frstor? Satoshi "the dumb one" Asami From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 03:58:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA16121 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16094 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id MAA05329; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:45:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01719; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:43:47 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:43:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605170626.PAA10859@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 17 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > All this discussion is telling us is that there are several different ways > by which FreeBSD source code is distributed, and each of these > different ways works well for different people. > > What's wrong with things as they are? Why should anyone feel compelled to > change things if they're not broken? True ! - -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMZ77YvMLpmkD/U+FAQHkugP+OdMQKii8RiRxBiwcuAPNgHbb7s5WqCXB DR83Pugg8HTU/C2QAlVH7/xeZz7Bnm7a3VMmFdGmhjqaSominxPjT4GYbyMTuKLw bZZqCaP9ynTc5GaMRDIqWePYkiSBbBw4rF5uO2F7tKiOrrzGj4LVYovnxvuENl41 3E+hknlSHMI= =pYFY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 03:58:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA16173 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16156 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id MAA05278; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:45:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01695; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:42:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:42:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: Warner Losh cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Standard Shipping Containers - A Proposal for Distributing FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605170421.WAA06771@rover.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 16 May 1996, Warner Losh wrote: > Err, ummm, ctm provides me with up to the last four hour update copies > of the development tree. And I have my email setup to automatically > apply it, so it is no muss, no fuss. Easily more up to date that sup > ever was for me. I resisted for a long time going to ctm because I > thought it wouldn't give me the access that sup gave me. It has > worked 1000% better than sup ever did for me. This is usually > sufficient because relatively little changes in any given four hour > period. Very very true. Additionally the diffs come with a md5 checksum. So only md5 validated CTM deltas will be applied to the source tree. This is an extra bonus ! Another advantage is, that you receive with CTM only the diffs. Sup is simply fetching whole files. A real disadvantage, when grabbing the sometimes over 200k large commit logs ... Andreas /// - -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMZ77E/MLpmkD/U+FAQGyNwP7BmkUO5pAWMIPOA+oOuYdMTUalPZJEdcq tLiE/3Vz1O+F/EMaEU8+Fl2rrMolHvUFNETB3ZrpDtAMD+LkJJc+19bbhx9bYUzh VZ4NqOJIfapQP+4CCn4rANNmr3dM6UP/fIYkbLYClGsQJ3MWNsQUwrGV56KNVXEP hsMCdtpWRJw= =QmMY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 05:47:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA22580 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 05:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA22575 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 05:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA13042; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:46:14 +1000 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:46:14 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605191246.WAA13042@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, bde@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: some more on fast bcopy Cc: ccd@stampede.cs.berkeley.edu, current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * I missed that. It would probably be cleanest to save it via %edx in > * both cases. >Both cases? Where is the other place that I need to save it? (Sorry >for being so dumb.) The place that now uses `smsw'. > * I'm running with a fast bzero (8 fstl's in a loop) too. It is much simpler > * than fastmove since it doesn't need to worry about context switches. bcopy > * need not worry either (except for bugs). This improves the speed of a kernel build by a whole 0.125% (from about 400 seconds to about 400-0.5 seconds (+= more than 0.5 seconds :-). The system time is reduced from about 20 seconds to about 20-0.5 seconds (+- not much more than 0.5 seconds :-)). >Ok, so I guess I can modify bcopy to use this and it would work too, >right? Although I'm not sure how much that will help (I don't think >there are really big data movements from kernel space to kernel space, >are there?).... Copying pages is the largest single overhead for fork-exec, at least for small pages. pmap_copy_page() uses memcpy() if __GNUC__ > 1 so it won't benefit immediately from improvements in bcopy() (gcc generates a dumb inline version involving movsl. In my kernel, 34 out of 284 .o's use gcc's builtins for memcpy(), strcpy(), strlen() or something.) >Another place that it may help (and may fool lmbench and the likes :) >is libc, do I need to the complicated FP state save/restore in there >too? Or can that be a simple fnsave/frstor? Simple. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 07:56:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA00483 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-164.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.164]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA00459 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) id RAA07988; Sat, 18 May 1996 17:43:05 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 17:43:05 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605181543.RAA07988@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD faces gallery now uses small JPEG images instead of big GIFs From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH [version 1.6.5 95 12 11], PGP available Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The gallery of FreeBSD faces: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/freebsd_people.html that used to use GIFs, now uses JPEGs, thus saving mammoth download time, (but sacrificing a) a little quality on individual faces, & causing a litle blotchiness due to exhaustion of colour palette (I guess), at least when viewed under chimera) b) cpu rendering time, jpeg files on my local host seem to take much longer to load than gif, (but as everyone will be using http: over the net & only I access files direct, I guess no one else will suffer that.) The GIFs are still in place, but unreferenced from the html file currently, I'll probably add GIFs or JPEG viewing alternatives sometime. Invitation & instructions for new faces is on the page ... take a look :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 08:55:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02855 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (root@xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.152.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02850 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (smpatel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA06299; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 11:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VoxWare 3.5? In-Reply-To: <9605161230.AA06025@cbsky.cb.att.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 16 May 1996 dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com wrote: > > > VoxWare changed its licensing. Now it is impossible to distribute > > > kernel binaries including the new drivers. This was discussed on the > > > -hackers and -cutrrent lists at some length. > > > > TASD 3.5 will eventually become the base for the -current sound driver. > > Also, I have heard a *rumor* (I'll check on this and get back to ya folks) > > that USS Lite is now under the standard GPL. If this is the case, then we > > may need to open up this discussion again :( > > Will this let RealAudio (Linux-emulated version) work? Importing TASD or USS Lite would be the first step in fixing[adding?] support for RealAudio. The second step is the pretty trivial task of adding the appropriate linuxemu glue. Sujal From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 11:04:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01258 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Sisyphos (Sisyphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01240 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by Sisyphos id AA09192 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org); Sun, 19 May 1996 20:04:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199605191804.AA09192@Sisyphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:04:49 +0200 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Beware: PCI NE2000 device names change with latest -current Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just wanted to let everybody know that I finally got around to commit the PCI support for NE2000 clone Ethernet cards to the -current tree. There currently is support for the REALTEK SEMICONDUCTOR chip, currently, but others would be easy to add. Just send me the boot messages, if you got a PCI Ethernet card that works with the ED driver and is not automatically configured. In case you had configured your ed0 device to use the port addresses and irq assigned by the PCI BIOS and used the ISA driver up to now, you should restore the GENERIC settings in the kernel config file, or both the PCI and the ISA scan will find the card and will both try to attach it! Since the config file reserves the ed0 (and possibly ed1) device for ISA cards, any NE2000 PCI cards will get names starting one higher than the highest configured ed device. I.e. if you use the GENERIC kernel and have two PCI NE2000 cards, they will be known as ed2 and ed3. If you used a PCI NE2000 card with the ISA driver you will have to: 1) Change back the port number of ed0 to NOT match the port assigned to the PCI card. 2) Change /etc/sysconfig to use ed1 (or ed2) instead of ed0. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 11:46:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04589 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04575 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id UAA22110; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:15:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08755; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:20:48 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:20:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: Paul Richards cc: Michael Smith , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: /stand/ee In-Reply-To: <199605160955.KAA28639@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 16 May 1996, Paul Richards wrote: > Learning vi is one of those things you have to do to admin an unix box. > If command line editing and mode based editors isn't your thing there > are other OS's you can use :-) Exactly this is one of the reasons why people move to other braindamaged OS like hell (seen on the whole). We have to provide simple tools as well as the traditional ones to make an OS attractive. Don't take me too serious ;-) But this is in my opineon one of the reasons, why windows has won the battle on desktop machines. Better user interfaces and less expensive application would have been a big plus for Unix operating systems ... - -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMZ9Yb/MLpmkD/U+FAQECUwP/WanK0o5+whkYWvWFLpF8543zdNG1PpFy tPVRs2CDHU6OW5l7yPi4S2jY/Z2tKaZyJq66bw36/6lMt0fSU0JzE03G36ozAkNB QUk2+Nd8Q2siuhp/8ofbtvEJF6RorTLsYjoEIuGShv3A0hGPyA+/WD0oIyFyR09O P8/OheP6stc= =LI/0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 14:39:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24822 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24817 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA02997 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:39:00 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199605192139.HAA02997@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: internat.freebsd.org To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:38:59 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, for some weeks now I have been trying to sup the secure and eBones distributions from internat.freebsd.org but it always seems to be down. Is there another site that is more reliable? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 17:31:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA10181 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trout.nosc.mil (trout.nosc.mil [128.49.16.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10176 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cod.nosc.mil by trout.nosc.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00902; Sun, 19 May 96 17:31:06 PDT Received: by cod.nosc.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26472; Sun, 19 May 96 17:28:41 PDT Date: Sun, 19 May 96 17:28:41 PDT From: gshaffer@cod.nosc.mil (Gregory M. Shaffer) Message-Id: <9605200028.AA26472@cod.nosc.mil> To: current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Problems making current Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.Org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ------- I downloaded src-cur.1800A.gz and am trying to do a make world. I get the following error: ===> lib/libmytinfo cc -O -Wall -I/home/FreeBSD/current/lib/libmytinfo -c /home/FreeBSD/current/lib/libmytinfo/readcaps.c -o readcaps.o In file included from /home/FreeBSD/current/lib/libmytinfo/readcaps.c:15: /usr/include/ctype.h:121: warning: parameter names (without types) in function declaration /usr/include/ctype.h:122: parse error before `___tolower' /usr/include/ctype.h:122: warning: parameter names (without types) in function declaration /usr/include/ctype.h:122: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/ctype.h:123: parse error before `___toupper' /usr/include/ctype.h:123: warning: parameter names (without types) in function declaration /usr/include/ctype.h:123: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/ctype.h:142: parse error before `_c' /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__istype': /usr/include/ctype.h:144: `_c' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h:144: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once /usr/include/ctype.h:144: for each function it appears in.) /usr/include/ctype.h:144: `_f' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h: At top level: /usr/include/ctype.h:149: parse error before `_c' /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__isctype': /usr/include/ctype.h:151: `_c' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h:152: `_f' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h: At top level: /usr/include/ctype.h:156: parse error before `__toupper' /usr/include/ctype.h:156: parse error before `_c' /usr/include/ctype.h:157: warning: return-type defaults to `int' /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__toupper': /usr/include/ctype.h:158: `_c' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h:160: warning: control reaches end of non-void function /usr/include/ctype.h: At top level: /usr/include/ctype.h:163: parse error before `__tolower' /usr/include/ctype.h:163: parse error before `_c' /usr/include/ctype.h:164: warning: return-type defaults to `int' /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__tolower': /usr/include/ctype.h:165: `_c' undeclared (first use this function) /usr/include/ctype.h:167: warning: control reaches end of non-void function *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. Whats up? Greg Shaffer ------- From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 18:01:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11586 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 18:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11579 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 18:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00710; Sun, 19 May 1996 18:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:01:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD-current users Subject: Re: catman In-Reply-To: <199605190905.LAA00504@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > The default for the man pages sources _is_ to keep them gzipped (and > yes, man/catman/makewhatis do know how to handle this). If you don't > like man page sources around, a simple That wasn't what I was referring to, I was referring to the difference between catman's preformatted ASCII pages vs the normal unformatted. > rm -rf /usr/share/man/man* This of course only is useful after you have catman'd all the pages, and it should be 'rm `find /usr/share/man|grep -v whatis`'. The downside to this is that you now have no whatis database so now whatis, apropos and man -k are all broke. > will do (as opposed to any black magic in catman(1)), as well as > disabling makewhatis (so the existing makewhatis databases won't be > clobbered). When you add more manpages you need to update the whatis databases, this update process will most likely clobber the old database because you already nuked the old unformatted man files. > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 22:30:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA25334 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA25325 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id HAA23338; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:15:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA01245; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:10:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:10:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: "Gregory M. Shaffer" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems making current In-Reply-To: <9605200028.AA26472@cod.nosc.mil> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Greg ! On Sun, 19 May 1996, Gregory M. Shaffer wrote: > ------- > I downloaded src-cur.1800A.gz and am trying to do a make world. I get the > following error: So you refer to the -current sources with CTM level 1800 ?! Well, the CTM level is now above 2020. Figure out ;-)) You should perhaps grab the missing CTM files and apply it to the cvs tree. There might be a bug that is solved in later release levels. But another thing that might be more important ... Possibly you didn't upgrade the /usr/src/sys tree properly. It could be the case, that newer header files in /usr/include/sys are missing. I just compiled libmytinfo successfull and can't remember any trouble with that lib in the past ... Andreas /// - -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMZ/+0fMLpmkD/U+FAQGhfgQA0ktUowBCCckmc4bh6P4w8AZiCsjwJPAp VvLvcQdaDhadiK1c7eeI3NMmR2bhMn2A9etAZzXywE+9FpRgf1d5gbpG8VJIEvt0 pZSXZEmVDcRkmzYo+ifkO8Ik6PM3HsqrMRH+eCv6An/AE7JW0V/v7bvydG76xz42 Y3PKWlA3jFE= =Nd6x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 22:51:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA26734 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26727 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA05051; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:51:04 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199605200551.HAA05051@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: internat.freebsd.org To: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:51:04 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605192139.HAA02997@spooky.eis.net.au> from Ernie Elu at "May 20, 96 07:38:59 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there, > for some weeks now I have been trying to sup the secure and eBones > distributions from internat.freebsd.org but it always seems to be down. > > Is there another site that is more reliable? > > - Ernie. > I have restarted sup during the weekend, but on Sunday our uninet-link went down. It is up now so you should be able to get to it. If you still have problems with internat, please contact one of the following addresses: hostmaster@internat.freebsd.org markm@freebsd.org (mark@grondar.za) jhay@mikom.csir.co.za The uninet (to which the CSIR is connected) got a 1Mbit link through SAIX and Alternet to the USA last week. Previously we only had a 256k link, so things should go better now, for a while at least. :-/ John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Sun May 19 23:51:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA28736 for current-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 23:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28725 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 23:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA11027 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:51:25 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA01502 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:51:25 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA04667 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:41:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605200641.IAA04667@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: catman To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:41:57 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Chris J. Layne" at "May 19, 96 06:01:27 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris J. Layne wrote: > > The default for the man pages sources _is_ to keep them gzipped (and > > yes, man/catman/makewhatis do know how to handle this). If you don't > > like man page sources around, a simple > > That wasn't what I was referring to, I was referring to the difference > between catman's preformatted ASCII pages vs the normal unformatted. Me too. :) ``unformatted man pages'' == ``man page sources''. > > rm -rf /usr/share/man/man* > > This of course only is useful after you have catman'd all the pages, and > it should be 'rm `find /usr/share/man|grep -v whatis`'. The downside to This will remove any man page except that for ``makewhatis'', and the whatis database itself. :-/ You could have written it shorter, btw.: rm `find /usr/share/man ! -name '*whatis*' -print` (No need for grep here. The -print is optional, but _only_ for BSD.) > > will do (as opposed to any black magic in catman(1)), as well as > > disabling makewhatis (so the existing makewhatis databases won't be > > clobbered). > > When you add more manpages you need to update the whatis databases, this > update process will most likely clobber the old database because you > already nuked the old unformatted man files. You can teach makewhatis to only add records, instead of clobbering the entire database. I don't believe it's worth the while. (Read this: i think there are more important projects waiting in the queue.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 00:47:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA00825 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA00814 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA10848; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:43:44 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:43:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605200743.RAA10848@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: catman Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >You could have written it shorter, btw.: >rm `find /usr/share/man ! -name '*whatis*' -print` >(No need for grep here. The -print is optional, but _only_ for BSD.) I think -print is optional in all POSIX `find's. It is optional in gnu `find' == Linux `find'. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 01:44:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA04695 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA04512; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA07339; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605200841.BAA07339@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Help building kernel Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:41:40 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Help! I'm trying to build a kernel on 2.1.0-Release, and I can't get it to work. Every time it goes to link I get these two errors: init_main.o: Undefined symbol `_dummyinit' referenced kern_xxx.o: Undefined symbol `_dummy_cleanup' referenced I'm using: config -g SPI cd ../../compile/SPI make depend make Here's my config file: # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.46.2.6 1995/10/25 17:29:51 jkh Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" ident SPI maxusers 16 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options DUMMY_NOPS options GATEWAY options KTRACE options "AUTO_EOI_1" options "AUTO_EOI_2" options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options SYSVSHM options DDB options DIAGNOSTIC makeoptions DEBUG="-g" config kernel root on wd0 dumps on wd0 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device cy0 at isa? tty irq 11 iomem 0xd4000 iosiz 0x2000 vector cyintr device cy1 at isa? tty irq 12 iomem 0xd6000 iosiz 0x2000 vector cyintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xcc000 vector edintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device ppp 16 pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device vn 4 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 02:06:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA06637 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 02:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA06632 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 02:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00670; Mon, 20 May 1996 02:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 02:05:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD-current users Subject: Re: catman In-Reply-To: <199605200641.IAA04667@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Chris J. Layne wrote: > > the entire database. I don't believe it's worth the while. (Read > this: i think there are more important projects waiting in the queue.) > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE I believe it's worth the while, but I do agree: there are more important projects. *sigh* == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 06:10:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA17367 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA17362 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA02048; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:05:11 -0700 (PDT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Subject: Re: catman In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 08:41:57 +0200." <199605200641.IAA04667@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 06:05:11 -0700 Message-ID: <2046.832597511@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (No need for grep here. The -print is optional, but _only_ for BSD.) Or any machine using GNU find, which includes the Linux boxes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 07:00:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19919 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19914 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA22173; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:00:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:00:45 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605201400.AA22173@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Warner Losh Cc: scott@statsci.com, invalid opcode , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is this is a stupid patch? In-Reply-To: <199605172004.OAA10324@rover.village.org> References: <199605172004.OAA10324@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > : 2) ftp anonymous@ftp.freebsd.org > I think -a arg would be better for anonymous ftp, but I like the user@ > notation for ftp for real users. The -a arg is much short than > anonymous@ or ftp@ Use .netrc. ------------------------------------ machine mercury login wollman machine ginger login wollman machine freefall.freebsd.org login wollman default login anonymous password wollman@lcs.mit.edu ------------------------------------ The `-a' flag is already in use to /suppress/ auto-login based on the contents of this file. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 07:32:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21688 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21683 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA22388; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:32:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:32:00 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605201432.AA22388@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Bruce Evans Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: unionfs In-Reply-To: <199605180332.NAA18119@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199605180332.NAA18119@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Another problem with mount_union is that getdirentries() doesn't work for > the lkm version. I have the union file system statically configured to > test it. This may have helped avoid the above panic. It normally hangs > instead of panicing. I think that this may be another service which doesn't want to be available as an LKM. (IPFW is another, but for rather different reasons.) When the new code is integrated, mount_union will not be able to modload the unionfs module unless it is run by root, which rather defeats the purpose of allowing ordinary users to mount unionfs:es in the first place. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 08:05:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA23745 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iesd.auc.dk (iesd.auc.dk [130.225.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23739 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from giga.cs.auc.dk (root@giga.cs.auc.dk [130.225.194.3]) by iesd.auc.dk (8.6.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA06090; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:02:28 +0200 Received: from birk.iesd.auc.dk (john7doe@birk.iesd.auc.dk [130.225.48.211]) by giga.cs.auc.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02527; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:02:25 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:02:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Simon Nybroe Reply-To: Simon Nybroe Subject: Re: Is there any European CTM depository ? To: "Nickolay N. Dudorov" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ollivier Robert (roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) wrote: > > It seems that Nickolay N. Dudorov said: > > > More precisely - is there any European depository > > > for CTM deltas apart from ftp.de.freebsd.org ? > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > (On this site some deltas is absent ;( f.e. src-cur.1755 and > > > src-cur.1758) > > > > ftp://ftp.ibp.fr/pub/FreeBSD. > > > I am very sorry, but there I can not find any > CTM deltas on this site. > > N.Dudorov Try ftp://sunsite.auc.dk/pub/os/FreeBSD/ctm - VII From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 08:30:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25035 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA25020 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA26678; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:27:21 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:27:21 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605201527.BAA26678@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, wollman@lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: unionfs Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I think that this may be another service which doesn't want to be >available as an LKM. (IPFW is another, but for rather different >reasons.) When the new code is integrated, mount_union will not be >able to modload the unionfs module unless it is run by root, which >rather defeats the purpose of allowing ordinary users to mount >unionfs:es in the first place. It should be possible for anyone to ask a trusted server to load trusted LKMs. However, LKMs can't be loaded if securelevel > 0, so it is best not to depend on loading them on demand. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 08:56:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26926 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26921 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA22820; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:55:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:55:08 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605201555.AA22820@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: some more on fast bcopy In-Reply-To: <199605191033.DAA02039@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> References: <199605181848.EAA11220@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199605191033.DAA02039@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < Another place that it may help (and may fool lmbench and the likes :) > is libc, do I need to the complicated FP state save/restore in there > too? Or can that be a simple fnsave/frstor? Don't forget that you can't make this the default because libc doesn't know what CPU it's running on. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 09:41:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29306 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29294 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA23362 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:40:32 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Mon, 20 May 1996 17:40:27 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA11154; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:39:49 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199605201639.RAA11154@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: /stand/ee To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:39:49 +0100 (BST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at May 19, 96 07:20:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Andreas Klemm who said > > > Learning vi is one of those things you have to do to admin an unix box. > > If command line editing and mode based editors isn't your thing there > > are other OS's you can use :-) > > Exactly this is one of the reasons why people move to other > braindamaged OS like hell (seen on the whole). > > We have to provide simple tools as well as the traditional > ones to make an OS attractive. > > Don't take me too serious ;-) But this is in my opineon one of > the reasons, why windows has won the battle on desktop machines. > > Better user interfaces and less expensive application would have > been a big plus for Unix operating systems ... Well, what I was really getting at is that Unix is not trivial to administer and having the default editor be vi gets you off on the right foot :-) Seriously, there's so much you have to learn before you can run an unix box that the idea that ee is going to stop people switching is rather amusing. People use windows because it *is* easier to use if all you want to do is word process and run spreadsheets. I think it's foolish to try and win over the masses to Unix. We should make it very good at what it's best at and I don't see that market going away anytime soon. The only possible threat is NT rather than windows. Trying to win over every desktop user out there is not a great idea. Incidentally, what editor does Linux use by default? If anything's winning the battle for DOS/Windows users it's Linux. Don't try and turn FreeBSD into something else or the core unix users will not feel comfortable with it and we'll end up losing not gaining users. I'm serious about the documentation issue. New users will not find any documentation on ee out there, all those beginner books talk about vi (and possibly emacs) so those who really have switched to unix and want to learn how to use it will have another hurdle to jump over before they can even start. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 10:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01504 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01483; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLYd6-0004JzC; Mon, 20 May 96 10:20 PDT Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: current@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just installed the FreeBSD-CURRENT May 1 snapshot on my home box and it's working perfectly. Congratulations all, on the most "STABLE" CURRENT release yet! I also supped -current (May 19) and rebuilt world and the kernel and that seems to be working fine as well. In particular I am impressed by the more efficient RAM usage (VM changes + new malloc) and excellent Linux support (a.out + ELF + sound). This is the first -current I've been able to run at home (the previous SNAP's boot floppy panicked sysinstall) so the improvement is really noticable compared to -stable. Also, I had been running Solaris x86 recently, and now I'm wondering why I hadn't upgraded FreeBSD sooner! The performance boost in PPP and XFree86, along with being able to run Netscape, and MUCH less swapping, has switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first place). My other plans for -current are: Upgrading the Linux libraries package to better support the JDK (libc 5.3.x) and other ELF programs, upgrading a few ports, and once GCC 2.7.3 is released (soon?), rebuilding world and kernel under GCC-2.7.2 with -O2 optimization to see if anything breaks. Out of personal preference (whether or not it ever goes in the tree), I'd also like to reduce the number of statically-linked binaries (i.e. move /bin to /usr/bin like Linux and Solaris) to those needed for boot and /stand for emergency use, and revamp the boot scripts to support SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. Again, thanks to everyone for the high quality of -current and the May 1 SNAP! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 11:06:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04913 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04890; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04206; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <4204.832615564@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > place). YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 13:39:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14907 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14900 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uLbjS-0003xTC; Mon, 20 May 96 13:39 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA04851; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:39:07 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 17 May 1996 23:23:51 +0930." <199605171353.XAA12893@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:39:00 +0000 Message-ID: <4846.832624740@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm. So far the culprit appears to be the NFS_NOSERVER option. > > Poul, this is your baby. Obviously, I'm still cutting test kernels > for all this, but some/any input would be greatly appreciated. "Don't use that then..." -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:00:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16320 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16314; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01038; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:59:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org Subject: VM changes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, so far the VM changes are working fine for me, I don't notice any apparent performance differences while forking, if I did it would most likely be psychological, but these changes are going along quite stable as opposed to last time :-) == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:09:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17052 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from davinci.isds.duke.edu (davinci.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17025; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diego.isds.duke.edu (diego.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.47]) by davinci.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29383; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Gallatin Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by diego.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) id RAA17638; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605202109.RAA17638@diego.isds.duke.edu> To: Jake Hamby Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby writes: > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > place). For quite similar reasons, Solaris/x86 compatibility is something that I'd like to see happen & help with as well. Is there any ongoing work in progress on Solaris/x86 compat mode that I could help with? Drew ############################################################################## # Andrew Gallatin, Computer Project Manager # # Institute of Statistics and Decision Sciences # # Box 90251, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0251 # ############################################################################## From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:14:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17550 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17543; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA04198; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199605202114.QAA04198@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: VM changes To: coredump@nervosa.com (Chris J. Layne) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:14:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris J. Layne" at May 20, 96 01:59:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, so far the VM changes are working fine for me, I don't notice any > apparent performance differences while forking, if I did it would most > likely be psychological, but these changes are going along quite stable > as opposed to last time :-) > Forks were running about 700-800usecs before, and now are about 600usecs on my P5-166. (Some new changes are coming from another front that will likely drop the 600usecs to about 500usecs.) You *certainly* would not notice the difference, unless you would be testing 100's of them. :-). Many of the new changes were simplifications, so it was easier to get them right. One thing though, how does the paging performance seem? John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:14:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17580 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17573 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04867; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Michael Smith , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 20:39:00 -0000." <4846.832624740@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:27 -0700 Message-ID: <4865.832626867@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Poul, this is your baby. Obviously, I'm still cutting test kernels > > for all this, but some/any input would be greatly appreciated. > > "Don't use that then..." You're saying I should nuke this out of the doMFSKERN rule in /usr/src/release/Makefile then? I guess we'll have to go fishing for space in GENERIC again! Sigh.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:18:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17857 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17805; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA14613; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:17:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA09355; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:17:00 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06246; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:28:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605202028.WAA06246@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Help building kernel To: michaelv@HeadCandy.com (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:28:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605200841.BAA07339@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> from "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" at "May 20, 96 01:41:40 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > Help! I'm trying to build a kernel on 2.1.0-Release, and I can't get > it to work. Every time it goes to link I get these two errors: > > init_main.o: Undefined symbol `_dummyinit' referenced > kern_xxx.o: Undefined symbol `_dummy_cleanup' referenced Interesting. Both are defined just one line before they are used. Are you sure you're using the stock 2.1 `ld'? Try declaring them as non-static, and see if the linker will find them. (Terry has been posting a 25-page :) article about the technology of the used linker sets recently. You should be able to find it by this keyword using the WWW interface to the mailing list archives.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:24:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18363 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18341; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01205; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:21:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: John Dyson cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VM changes In-Reply-To: <199605202114.QAA04198@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, John Dyson wrote: > Many of the new changes were simplifications, so it was easier to get > them right. One thing though, how does the paging performance seem? Paging performance appears to be more efficient. There is less hard drive ripping, even when running netscape. > John > dyson@freebsd.org == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:25:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18604 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18592 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uLcRa-0003xtC; Mon, 20 May 96 14:24 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA05706; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:23:41 GMT To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 14:14:27 MST." <4865.832626867@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 21:23:40 +0000 Message-ID: <5704.832627420@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Poul, this is your baby. Obviously, I'm still cutting test kernels > > > for all this, but some/any input would be greatly appreciated. > > > > "Don't use that then..." > > You're saying I should nuke this out of the doMFSKERN rule in > /usr/src/release/Makefile then? I guess we'll have to go fishing for > space in GENERIC again! Sigh.. No I belive it is need for sysinstall, as I understood Michael he's using it in some other context. I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed mind you, merely that if you have trouble, then don't use it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:35:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19724 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19676; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA11710; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:30 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199605202135.OAA11710@kithrup.com> To: gallatin@stat.Duke.EDU, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >For quite similar reasons, Solaris/x86 compatibility is something that >I'd like to see happen & help with as well. Is there any ongoing work >in progress on Solaris/x86 compat mode that I could help with? One would think that the ABI binaries would "just work." I haven't seen any Solaris/x86 specific binaries, though, so I don't know. (This, btw, is part of the reason I wanted a way to distringuish between FreeBSD ELF binaries and other ELF binaries.) Sean. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:39:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20110 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20101 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04979; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Michael Smith , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 21:23:40 -0000." <5704.832627420@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:28 -0700 Message-ID: <4977.832628368@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No I belive it is need for sysinstall, as I understood Michael he's using > it in some other context. I thought he was testing it to see why NFS installs fail. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 14:59:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21705 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21698 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28636; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:54:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202154.OAA28636@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: unionfs To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:54:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605201527.BAA26678@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at May 21, 96 01:27:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I think that this may be another service which doesn't want to be > >available as an LKM. (IPFW is another, but for rather different > >reasons.) When the new code is integrated, mount_union will not be > >able to modload the unionfs module unless it is run by root, which > >rather defeats the purpose of allowing ordinary users to mount > >unionfs:es in the first place. > > It should be possible for anyone to ask a trusted server to load > trusted LKMs. However, LKMs can't be loaded if securelevel > 0, > so it is best not to depend on loading them on demand. Kernel-based demand loading will (potentially) kill this. I don't understand the need to allow ordinary users to do mounts; FS hierarchy geometry is pretty system-critical, IMO. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 15:56:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26282 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26220; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id XAA22645; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:53:33 +0100 (BST) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:53:32 +0100 Message-ID: <22643.832632812@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote in message ID : > Out of personal preference (whether or not it ever goes in the tree), I'd > also like to reduce the number of statically-linked binaries (i.e. move > /bin to /usr/bin like Linux and Solaris) to those needed for boot and > /stand for emergency use, and revamp the boot scripts to support > SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. Again, thanks to > everyone for the high quality of -current and the May 1 SNAP! Some points: 1) After a quick examination of /bin, the majority of the binaries there I'd like to see stay. The couple that I don't quite understand being there (such as `rmail') probably need to stay there for backwards compatability. The current layout of /bin allows you to quickly recover if you screw something up, and to tell the truth I've had occasion to be grateful for the contents of /bin. Perhaps if someone undertakes to make the ``fixit floppy'' idea REALLY work and become 100% useful, I'd agree, but until then (and until I actually remember to keep a fixit floppy around 24/7), I'd vote no. 2) /etc/init.d is EXTREMELY controversial. I was actually thinking recently of introducing a proposoal on -hackers to revive the discussion to see if we could reach some decision (someone else started some other religuous discussion so I held off to save peoples mailboxes and forgot about it ... oops). Basically, I would like to see a /etc/rc.local.d, which meets your requirements of easy package addition, without forcing everyone to go the SYS V route for the entire setup. I actually kinda like the /etc/sysconfig idea, and the way it works in FreeBSD. IF and ONLY IF a decent administration interface is designed and writted for a /etc/rc.d (or whatever else you want to call it) would I be willing to see a move to a rc.d structure. (actually, I can pretty much see a long discussion going on about your last paragraph in particular) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:31:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28425 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28420; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA23672; Tue, 21 May 96 01:32:57 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 May 96 01:32:57 +0100 Message-Id: <9605210032.AA23672@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: coredump@nervosa.com Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (coredump@nervosa.com) Subject: Re: VM changes X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Chris J Layne" writes: > Well, so far the VM changes are working fine for me, I don't notice any > apparent performance differences while forking, if I did it would most > likely be psychological, but these changes are going along quite stable > as opposed to last time :-) You are lucky :-) My machine crashed after an uptime of only one hour. It was not very loaded (make world in a xterm, a compilation in another and emacs) The pointer disapeared and the machine freezed. I had to hit the reset button. I was not able to make it to crash again though. I restarted the make world and a few compiles, watching my xconsole, but everything completed fine. It is possible that a small bug remains (unless the crash was caused by a cosmic ray :-)) Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:37:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28825 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28820 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous231.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.231]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA16064 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:29:57 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA12205; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:26:23 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:26:23 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605202326.BAA12205@campa.panke.de> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: name clash for manpage links Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some manual page links overwrite other links ;-( lib/libc <===> lib/libcompat /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regcomp.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regex.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regcomp.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexp.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regerror.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regex.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regerror.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexp.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexec.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regex.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexec.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexp.3 lib/libncurses <==> lib/libtermcap /a/tmp/2/man/man3/tparm.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/curs_termin.3 /a/tmp/2/man/man3/tparm.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/termcap.3 Wolfram From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:37:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28866 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28859 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous231.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.231]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA16067; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:30:02 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA12049; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:23:11 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:23:11 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605202223.AAA12049@campa.panke.de> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-current users) Subject: Re: catman In-Reply-To: <2046.832597511@time.cdrom.com> References: <199605200641.IAA04667@uriah.heep.sax.de> <2046.832597511@time.cdrom.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> (No need for grep here. The -print is optional, but _only_ for BSD.) > >Or any machine using GNU find, which includes the Linux boxes. BTW, BSD find require file(s) as argument, GNU find use '.' if no files given. So the manpage and usage string are wrong $ man find find [-H | -L | -P] [-Xdx] [-f file] [file ...] expression $ find usage: find [-H | -L | -P] [-Xdx] [-f file] [file ...] [expression] should be: find [-H | -L | -P] [-Xdx] [-f file] file ... [expression] Wolfram From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:40:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29102 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29089 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous231.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.231]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA16070; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:30:05 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA12134; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:40:06 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:40:06 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605202240.AAA12134@campa.panke.de> To: "Chris J. Layne" Cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD-current users Subject: Re: catman In-Reply-To: References: <199605200641.IAA04667@uriah.heep.sax.de> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No problem, 20 lines perl code. I will commit it. Wolfram Chris J. Layne writes: >> the entire database. I don't believe it's worth the while. (Read >> this: i think there are more important projects waiting in the queue.) >> joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > >I believe it's worth the while, but I do agree: there are more important >projects. *sigh* From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:43:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29293 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29273 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <02038-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:37:50 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id JAA29223; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:38:26 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id XAA13440; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:38:52 GMT Message-Id: <199605202338.XAA13440@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: current@freebsd.org cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Possible problem with new VM code? X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:38:50 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I compiled up the new VM patches (as at ctm src-cur 1804) and installed them on my home machine (486/66, 8Mb, 1542B, barracuda). Whilst running the X server & two xterms, I ran systat -vmstat in one and started doing a make all install of libc_r in the other. It seemed to be paging more heavily than I expected, so I switched WM focus (I was using 9wm as the window manager) to the window running systat. This took far longer than I expected (9wm only has about 32k of text, without counting the shared libs & my Xserver has PEX & other cruft stripped out), with a high level of disk activity being maintained. I typed :q to get out of systat, which led to an even higher level of disk activity. The system then froze. I have a kernel with DDB compiled in, but with running X, I could not switch back to the console to see where it had died, or provoke a dump to dissect later. Now I compiled all the userland binaries recently, and systat did seem to be picking up all the right stats, but I was wondering if systat could have been leaking memory at a furious rate and hence caused problems by exhausting VM, owing to some sort of mismatch in what it thought kernel structures looked like and how they actually were. I'll try recompiling everything else & get back to you. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:46:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29491 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29483 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA22823; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:29:16 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605202359.JAA22823@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:29:15 +0930 (CST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4977.832628368@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 20, 96 02:39:28 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > No I belive it is need for sysinstall, as I understood Michael he's using > > it in some other context. > > I thought he was testing it to see why NFS installs fail. :-) Yup. Or more to the point, why NFS on some of my -current systems was busted but not others. NFS_NOSERVER was only being used on the small ones, and they were the only ones sgiwing the symptoms. I can't build -current at the moment as John's VM megacommit hasn't percolated properly yet, but I had GENERIC falling over by just adding NFS_NOSERVER and reading from an NFS-mounted filesystem. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 16:53:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29912 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29907 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id SAA01994; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:01 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605202353.SAA01994@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:01 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605202338.XAA13440@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at May 21, 96 09:38:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Now I compiled all the userland binaries recently, and systat did seem to be > picking up all the right stats, but I was wondering if systat could have been > leaking memory at a furious rate and hence caused problems by exhausting VM, > owing to some sort of mismatch in what it thought kernel structures looked > like and how they actually were. I'll try recompiling everything else & get > back to you. > Another idea, it appears that some people might be seeing some timing problems. Try defining splvm to be the same as splhigh in /sys/i386/include/spl.h. John From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 17:15:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01476 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01465; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA00163; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:14:28 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605210014.TAA00163@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: VM changes To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:14:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9605210032.AA23672@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> from "Jean-Marc Zucconi" at May 21, 96 01:32:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You are lucky :-) My machine crashed after an uptime of only one > hour. It was not very loaded (make world in a xterm, a compilation in > another and emacs) The pointer disapeared and the machine > freezed. I had to hit the reset button. > I was not able to make it to crash again though. I restarted the make > world and a few compiles, watching my xconsole, but everything > completed fine. > It is possible that a small bug remains (unless the crash was caused > by a cosmic ray :-)) > Just a a long-shot, try this /sys/i386/include/spl.h, with a modified definition of splvm(): /*- * Copyright (c) 1993 The Regents of the University of California. * All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * $Id: spl.h,v 1.14 1996/05/18 03:36:42 dyson Exp $ */ #ifndef _MACHINE_IPL_H_ #define _MACHINE_IPL_H_ #include /* XXX "machine" means cpu for i386 */ /* * Software interrupt bit numbers in priority order. The priority only * determines which swi will be dispatched next; a higher priority swi * may be dispatched when a nested h/w interrupt handler returns. */ #define SWI_TTY (NHWI + 0) #define SWI_NET (NHWI + 1) #define SWI_CLOCK 30 #define SWI_AST 31 /* * Corresponding interrupt-pending bits for ipending. */ #define SWI_TTY_PENDING (1 << SWI_TTY) #define SWI_NET_PENDING (1 << SWI_NET) #define SWI_CLOCK_PENDING (1 << SWI_CLOCK) #define SWI_AST_PENDING (1 << SWI_AST) /* * Corresponding interrupt-disable masks for cpl. The ordering is now by * inclusion (where each mask is considered as a set of bits). Everything * except SWI_AST_MASK includes SWI_CLOCK_MASK so that softclock() doesn't * run while other swi handlers are running and timeout routines can call * swi handlers. Everything includes SWI_AST_MASK so that AST's are masked * until just before return to user mode. SWI_TTY_MASK includes SWI_NET_MASK * in case tty interrupts are processed at splsofttty() for a tty that is in * SLIP or PPP line discipline (this is weaker than merging net_imask with * tty_imask in isa.c - splimp() must mask hard and soft tty interrupts, but * spltty() apparently only needs to mask soft net interrupts). */ #define SWI_TTY_MASK (SWI_TTY_PENDING | SWI_CLOCK_MASK | SWI_NET_MASK) #define SWI_NET_MASK (SWI_NET_PENDING | SWI_CLOCK_MASK) #define SWI_CLOCK_MASK (SWI_CLOCK_PENDING | SWI_AST_MASK) #define SWI_AST_MASK SWI_AST_PENDING #define SWI_MASK (~HWI_MASK) #ifndef LOCORE extern unsigned bio_imask; /* group of interrupts masked with splbio() */ extern unsigned cpl; /* current priority level mask */ extern volatile unsigned idelayed; /* interrupts to become pending */ extern volatile unsigned ipending; /* active interrupts masked by cpl */ extern unsigned net_imask; /* group of interrupts masked with splimp() */ extern unsigned stat_imask; /* interrupts masked with splstatclock() */ extern unsigned tty_imask; /* group of interrupts masked with spltty() */ /* * ipending has to be volatile so that it is read every time it is accessed * in splx() and spl0(), but we don't want it to be read nonatomically when * it is changed. Pretending that ipending is a plain int happens to give * suitable atomic code for "ipending |= constant;". */ #define setdelayed() (*(unsigned *)&ipending |= loadandclear(&idelayed)) #define setsoftast() (*(unsigned *)&ipending |= SWI_AST_PENDING) #define setsoftclock() (*(unsigned *)&ipending |= SWI_CLOCK_PENDING) #define setsoftnet() (*(unsigned *)&ipending |= SWI_NET_PENDING) #define setsofttty() (*(unsigned *)&ipending |= SWI_TTY_PENDING) #define schedsofttty() (*(unsigned *)&idelayed |= SWI_TTY_PENDING) #define schedsoftnet() (*(unsigned *)&idelayed |= SWI_NET_PENDING) #define softclockpending() (ipending & SWI_CLOCK_PENDING) #ifdef __GNUC__ void splz __P((void)); #define GENSPL(name, set_cpl) \ static __inline int name(void) \ { \ unsigned x; \ \ __asm __volatile("" : : : "memory"); \ x = cpl; \ set_cpl; \ return (x); \ } GENSPL(splbio, cpl |= bio_imask) GENSPL(splclock, cpl = HWI_MASK | SWI_MASK) GENSPL(splhigh, cpl = HWI_MASK | SWI_MASK) GENSPL(splimp, cpl |= net_imask) GENSPL(splnet, cpl |= SWI_NET_MASK) GENSPL(splsoftclock, cpl = SWI_CLOCK_MASK) GENSPL(splsofttty, cpl |= SWI_TTY_MASK) GENSPL(splstatclock, cpl |= stat_imask) GENSPL(spltty, cpl |= tty_imask) /* GENSPL(splvm, cpl |= net_imask | bio_imask) */ GENSPL(splvm, cpl = HWI_MASK | SWI_MASK) static __inline void spl0(void) { cpl = SWI_AST_MASK; if (ipending & ~SWI_AST_MASK) splz(); } static __inline void splx(int ipl) { cpl = ipl; if (ipending & ~ipl) splz(); } #endif /* __GNUC__ */ #endif /* !LOCORE */ #endif /* !_MACHINE_IPL_H_ */ From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 17:27:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02448 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02398; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLfIH-0004JwC; Mon, 20 May 96 17:27 PDT Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <4204.832615564@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > > place). > > YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions > of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! > > Jordan Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Catalyst apps for Solaris/SPARC as for x86. Still, Christos from NetBSD says that their code runs OpenWindows apps whoohoo! Except for programs which require ttsession which need LWP (i.e. threads). Also, he claimed the code would be fairly portable to FreeBSD, and that our ELF loader should be usable, so I'll give it a try and let you all know how it goes! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 20:17:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA16196 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA16172 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01524 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:17:12 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:17:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: current@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While chatting with my fellow administrator we were discussing (yes, the age old argument) freebsd vs linux. One of the points he made was that even the latest releases of fbsd are easy to synflood & spoof. Now for us and OUR users this isn't a problem since we have filters on our cisco that disallows spoofing but lets face it, most ISP's are clueless. My roommate who keeps up with fbsd somewhat more than I do was just chatting with me about this fact and mentioned that someone is working on the socket code and I thought I'd mention this problem since it is (imho) a SERIOUS security problem for those who don't neccessarily know better. On the same topic I had been doing some thinking about tcp sequecing and I was contemplating using a DES noise generator to procude pseudo-random numbers (this idea compliments of the folks on #unix) for the sequencing, any comments? Brett From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 20:27:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA16982 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA16971 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04520; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:27:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:27:09 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: Paul Richards cc: Andreas Klemm , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: /stand/ee In-Reply-To: <199605201639.RAA11154@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Paul Richards wrote: > Well, what I was really getting at is that Unix is not trivial to administer > and having the default editor be vi gets you off on the right foot :-) Bah. Normally you say pretty sensible things, but... ;-) There are some aspacts of unix that genuinely make it more difficult to administer than your average dos box, but there is also the cumulative effect of many smaller unnecessary complications, and vi contributes more than its fair share to the difficulty. I fail to see how adding random roadblocks and potholes in any way a service to the new user. Vi is "standard" in much the same way that MS-DOS is "standard": not because it is good (which is a *separate* issue), but because people have a great investment in it. For programming, vi has its place, but for a lot of sysadmin task, and those involved in getting a new system up and running in particular, the power of vi is excessive, and the learning curve that goes with it is consequently not justified. I have yet to meet file in /etc that where vi or emacs has proven to be discernably more capable or efficient than pico. On this "standard" editor front, I think the other popular operating systems (msdos, windows, os2, macos) have all hit the nail squarely on the head. Each includes an editor that is very small, trivial to learn, and trivial to use. These editors (edit, notepad, e, simpletext) are present on every system and can effectively handle the editing tasks required to customize the system. At the same time, they have no pretentions of being the "one true editor". For serious editing, be it prose or code, the user will choose another editor most suitable to their particular task. Some will find nirvana in a single editor and user it for everything, which is is just fine. Others will find a few more specialized editors more suitable. Every time this editor war comes up, I see a bazillion posts from diehard vi users that conflate the concept of a "standard" editor with the concept of the "one true editor". The two concepts are mutually exclusive. I'm not one to bring change for the sake of change, and at this point I wouldn't dream of proposing to remove vi from the core distribution. However, it is equally shortsighted to keep tradition for sake of tradition. Vi has stubbornly ignored all that the last 15 or so years of human computer interaction research has discovered, and the population of users who have no desire to invest the time to learn a cranky old editor is only going to rise. The longer the unix community clutches with cold bony fingers to the "one true editor" tradition, the smaller the user base will become. > at and I don't see that market going away anytime soon. The only possible > threat is NT rather than windows. Trying to win over every desktop user out NT and unix are probably on par when it comes to inherently difficult administration concepts, but unix throws other random and unnecessary hurdles in the users path. Things like vi. > users. I'm serious about the documentation issue. New users will not > find any documentation on ee out there, all those beginner books talk > about vi (and possibly emacs) so those who really have switched to unix > and want to learn how to use it will have another hurdle to jump over > before they can even start. I'm serious about documentation too. Vi is lousy as a "standard" editor precicely because it needs documentation. When was the last time you had to dig through a book to figure out how to save a file in Notpad or simpletext? Vi is the hurdle that *many* have tripped over, ee is a step and pico a mere bump. Okay. I'm done with my rant. I return you to your hacking... ;-) -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 20:53:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19330 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19305; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA06213; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:15 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:27 -0700 Message-ID: <6211.832650747@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Oh, I know that (said Catalyst catalog also makes that fact pretty obvious :-) but 10% of 2000 apps is still a lot better than the 100% coverage of 3-4 apps we have now. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 21:36:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22831 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22821 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00672; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:46:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Linux Compatibility Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm experimenting with the Linux compatibility in ELF. I made /usr/lib/linux, put libc.so.5 (from Linux) in there and ldconfig'ed it. Where can I get the things like: ELF interpreter /compat/linux/lib/ld-linux.so.1 not found To put in that directory and use certain ELF applications? Regards, Marxx "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 21:53:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25623 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25610 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00721; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 21:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Using DES as a random number generator would be excellent, but might not be quick enough. It was rather nicely discussed in a IP spoofing and TCP sequence prediction paper I read. Being easy to syn flood + spoof has not much to do when it comes to FreeBSD vs. Linux, after 1.3.7x I believe a patch isn't even needed to spoof an IP packet. Let's face it, it would be somewhat silly to attempt to disallow IP packet spoofing, all you're doing it manually building a IP header, and sending it away. Traceroute and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. Most spoofing/sequencing/hijacking attempts an experiments are from people with individual workstations, connected, not users on a server. Practically all Unices are easy to syn flood + spoof on, ok, it only takes 8 requests to hose, but that's irrelevant. The problem doesn't lye in how quickly, it's that it occurs. The problem shouldn't be delt with on the client side, but on the server side. Regards, Marxx "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > While chatting with my fellow administrator we were discussing (yes, the age > old argument) freebsd vs linux. One of the points he made was that even the > latest releases of fbsd are easy to synflood & spoof. Now for us and OUR > users this isn't a problem since we have filters on our cisco that disallows > spoofing but lets face it, most ISP's are clueless. My roommate who keeps up > with fbsd somewhat more than I do was just chatting with me about this fact > and mentioned that someone is working on the socket code and I thought I'd > mention this problem since it is (imho) a SERIOUS security problem for those > who don't neccessarily know better. > > On the same topic I had been doing some thinking about tcp sequecing and I > was contemplating using a DES noise generator to procude pseudo-random > numbers (this idea compliments of the folks on #unix) for the sequencing, > any comments? > > Brett > > From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 22:05:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA26594 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26575; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA12030; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605210505.WAA12030@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help building kernel In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 May 96 22:28:53 +0200. <199605202028.WAA06246@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:05:11 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: >> Help! I'm trying to build a kernel on 2.1.0-Release, and I can't get >> it to work. Every time it goes to link I get these two errors: >> init_main.o: Undefined symbol `_dummyinit' referenced >> kern_xxx.o: Undefined symbol `_dummy_cleanup' referenced >Interesting. Both are defined just one line before they are used. >Are you sure you're using the stock 2.1 `ld'? >Try declaring them as non-static, and see if the linker will find >them. The problem was that the compiler optimized them out of existance. I'm used to building a kernel fully optimized (-O6) under NetBSD, and just did the same thing here. Building with -O fixed the problem. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 22:26:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA28081 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA28058; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA29987; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 20, 96 05:27:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > > > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > > > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > > > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > > > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > > > place). > > > > YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions > > of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! > > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many > Catalyst apps for Solaris/SPARC as for x86. Still, Christos from NetBSD > says that their code runs OpenWindows apps whoohoo! Except for programs > which require ttsession which need LWP (i.e. threads). Also, he claimed > the code would be fairly portable to FreeBSD, and that our ELF loader > should be usable, so I'll give it a try and let you all know how it goes! Which LWP? The SunOS 4.x LWP, which is a user space library that uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, or the kernel threads in Solaris, also called LWP's? "There are no SunOS 4.x LWP's, there are only Solaris LWP's!" "We have *always* been at war with the East!" "There is no Dana, only Zuul!" The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and multithreading. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 22:59:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA29515 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29508 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA29108 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA15018 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08589 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:13:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210513.HAA08589@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: name clash for manpage links To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:13:24 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605202326.BAA12205@campa.panke.de> from Wolfram Schneider at "May 21, 96 01:26:23 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > Some manual page links overwrite other links ;-( > > lib/libc <===> lib/libcompat > /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regcomp.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regex.3 > /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regcomp.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/regexp.3 > lib/libncurses <==> lib/libtermcap > /a/tmp/2/man/man3/tparm.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/curs_termin.3 > /a/tmp/2/man/man3/tparm.3 -> /a/tmp/2/man/man3/termcap.3 Time for libc(3c) and such? (Though i never really liked it in SysV.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 22:59:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA29529 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29513 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA29112 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:48 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA15019 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08669 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:19:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210519.HAA08669@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <22643.832632812@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 20, 96 11:53:32 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Palmer wrote: > 1) After a quick examination of /bin, the majority of the binaries > there I'd like to see stay. The couple that I don't quite > understand being there (such as `rmail') probably need to stay > there for backwards compatability. /bin/rmail could be replaced by a symlink to /usr/bin/rmail. I think Taylor UUCP is smart enough about finding it along the standard path anyway. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 23:01:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29814 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29805 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <07979-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:00:23 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id PAA07317; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:20:19 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id FAA21386; Tue, 21 May 1996 05:20:43 GMT Message-Id: <199605210520.FAA21386@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:01 EST." <199605202353.SAA01994@dyson.iquest.net> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:20:42 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I actually managed to provoke a crash with DDB at the ready while the system was under heavy load! This is on different hardware (486/66, 16Mb with IDE, the old one was 486/66, 8Mb, 1542B + barracuda) & without the suggested alteration of splvm to be the same as splhigh) Mind you, it took two make worlds & running the quake binary to do it. The backtrace is as follows (note I've compiled the kernel with -O2 -m486) - panic: vm_page_activate: already active _vm_page_activate(f02291d0,660000,7fffffff,f01cfc80,208000) at _vm_page_activate+0x34 _vm_pageout_scan((f0bc1b0,9d7,7fffffff,1,80000000) at _vm_pageout_scan+0x1b3 _vm_pageout(f09090cf,f01794a9,f01bce4,efbfffac,f0106d31) at _vm_pageout+0x202 _kproc_start(f01bc1b0,204f00, 208000,0,1) at _kproc_start+0x35 main(with usual args) I'll try the suggested alteration of VM SPL levels. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Mon May 20 23:02:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29922 for current-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29907 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA29239; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:01:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA15059; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:01:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA09012; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:49:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210549.HAA09012@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: NFS bustedness... To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:49:04 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605202359.JAA22823@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "May 21, 96 09:29:15 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > I thought he was testing it to see why NFS installs fail. :-) > > Yup. Or more to the point, why NFS on some of my -current systems was > busted but not others. NFS_NOSERVER was only being used on the small ones, > and they were the only ones sgiwing the symptoms. Hmm. That alone cannot really be it. All my failed attempts to install over NFS were done with the regular boot floppy, not the small one. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 00:13:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03567 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03556 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLlcj-0004K0C; Tue, 21 May 96 00:12 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Compatibility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm experimenting with the Linux compatibility in ELF. I made > /usr/lib/linux, put libc.so.5 (from Linux) in there and ldconfig'ed it. > Where can I get the things like: > > ELF interpreter /compat/linux/lib/ld-linux.so.1 not found > > To put in that directory and use certain ELF applications? > > Regards, > > Marxx The best thing to do is download the Linux libraries port "linux_lib" which is in ports-current. It contains the most common a.out and ELF Linux libraries as well as ld-linux.so.1 and ld.so. Enjoy! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 00:19:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03904 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03896 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA26825; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:18:32 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:18:32 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605210718.RAA26825@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, wollman@lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: some more on fast bcopy Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Another place that it may help (and may fool lmbench and the likes :) >> is libc, do I need to the complicated FP state save/restore in there >> too? Or can that be a simple fnsave/frstor? >Don't forget that you can't make this the default because libc doesn't >know what CPU it's running on. There should be a sysctl or something to determine the cpu class. I want one for the fpu class. Currently we have hw.floatingpoint, but I want more than a binary value: { FPU_EMULATED_AND_BROKEN, FPU_EMULATED, FPU_COPROCESSOR, FPU_CPU }, where FPU_PROCESSOR might need to be multi-valued, and FPU_CPU says that the fpu behaviour is determined by the cpu class. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 01:04:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06372 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seabass.progroup.com (catfish.progroup.com [206.24.122.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06363 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from craig@localhost) by seabass.progroup.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA13152 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:04:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199605210804.BAA13152@seabass.progroup.com> Subject: Re: Solaris x86 +++ To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig Shaver" In-Reply-To: <199605202109.RAA17638@diego.isds.duke.edu> from "Andrew Gallatin" at May 20, 96 05:09:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Jake Hamby writes: > > > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > > place). > > > For quite similar reasons, Solaris/x86 compatibility is something that > I'd like to see happen & help with as well. Is there any ongoing work > in progress on Solaris/x86 compat mode that I could help with? > > Drew > I have both FreeBSD and Solaris 2.(45) x86 running on my little net and would be able to help with some small stuff. Porting, testing, etc.... -- Craig Shaver (craig@progroup.com) (415)390-0654 Productivity Group POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA 94088 From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 01:24:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA07819 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.91.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07729; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03067; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id EAA07997; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199605210823.EAA07997@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: terry@lambert.org CC: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Terry Lambert Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST) The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's etc. although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being discussed. Furthermore, the way Solaris does threads in the kernel has been proven to be a lose (pre-emption, a billion mutexes in the kernel, another thousand read writer locks) and expect the industry to move in "another" direction. Computer science has proven that current smp technology (read as: what SVR4.2MP based kernels do right now) cannot scale past 32 cpu's without an exponential loss in performance. Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can count in an unsigned char. ;-) Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 02:06:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10966 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA10959 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA13074; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605210905.CAA13074@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 May 96 21:02:49 -0400. Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:05:44 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your >clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. Any PC with an ethernet card on the network can open "raw" packets. And they might not even have to be there while the sniffer collects data. I've seen the consequences first-hand. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 03:57:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA16797 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16792 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA00774; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 03:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211055.DAA00774@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: wscott@ichips.intel.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu CC: current@freebsd.org, nisha@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: P6 memory copy speed From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello guys, I would like to know more about the P6 bcopy speeds. Specifically, what exactly are the chipsets on your systems? Something like === >> dmesg | grep chip chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 === would be great. Also, make and brand of motherboard would help too. By the way, Wayne, you said that you can get better numbers from your "server" system. Can you re-run the set of tests on that system so we can compare it side by side with the "desktop" version? If someone out there has a P6 and would like to chime in, please look at: http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/~asami/Td/bcopy.html There is also a link to the gzipped tarball for the test programs in that page. Thanks Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 04:33:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18585 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18579 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00850; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211133.EAA00850@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: vm-related (?) crash From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got this during a make world + tar copy on a 14-disk ccd with the latest vm changes (including the 500us!!! fork() stuff). === IdlePTD 1ff000 current pcb at 1eb1ac panic: vm_page_activate: already active #0 0xf01b1787 in boot () (kgdb) bt #0 0xf01b1787 in boot () #1 0xf0118036 in panic () #2 0xf01aa790 in vm_page_activate () #3 0xf01abea4 in vm_pageout_scan () #4 0xf01ac49a in vm_pageout () #5 0xf0109fb6 in kproc_start () #6 0xf0109f54 in main () === Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 04:39:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18984 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw3.att.com (gw4.att.com [204.179.186.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA18979 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: dob@nasvr1.cb.att.com Received: from nasvr1.cb.att.com (naserver1.cb.att.com) by ig4.att.att.com id AA24058; Tue, 21 May 96 07:30:49 EDT Received: by nasvr1.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA26906; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:36:35 -0400 Received: from cbsky.cb.att.com by nasvr1.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA26891; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:36:26 -0400 Received: by cbsky.cb.att.com (5.x/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA19832; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:36:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:36:03 -0400 Message-Id: <9605211136.AA19832@cbsky.cb.att.com> To: current@freefall.freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VM changes Cc: ejc@gargoyle.bazzle.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, so far the VM changes are working fine for me, I don't notice any > > You are lucky :-) My machine crashed after an uptime of only one > hour. It was not very loaded (make world in a xterm, a compilation in Hi, John. Your VM tester reporting in with his weird configuration (Digital PC, Pentium, 8MB, NO L2 CACHE) results, sir! Compiled kernel as of Monday night (with VM changes), started make world, ran ok until I logged into another virtual console port, then BOOM! panic: vm page already active _panic + 0x5a _vm_page_activate + 0x34 _vm_pageout_scan + 0x198 _vm_pageout + 0x1ea _kproc_start + 0x32 _main +0xcc begin() + x44 I made the splvm to splhigh changes as reported elsewhere, started make world, went to bed, next morning, BOOM! Same, same (as my son at 3 years old used to say). Thanks, Dan O'Brien Lucent Technologies Columbus, OH, USA From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 05:21:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA20969 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 05:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA20963 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 05:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19719; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:21:16 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:21:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > Using DES as a random number generator would be excellent, but might > not be quick enough. It was rather nicely discussed in a IP spoofing and > TCP sequence prediction paper I read. Being easy to syn flood + spoof has > not much to do when it comes to FreeBSD vs. Linux, after 1.3.7x I believe > a patch isn't even needed to spoof an IP packet. Let's face it, it would > be somewhat silly to attempt to disallow IP packet spoofing, all you're > doing it manually building a IP header, and sending it away. Traceroute > and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your > clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. > Most spoofing/sequencing/hijacking attempts an experiments are from people > with individual workstations, connected, not users on a server. > Practically all Unices are easy to syn flood + spoof on, ok, it only takes > 8 requests to hose, but that's irrelevant. The problem doesn't lye in how > quickly, it's that it occurs. The problem shouldn't be delt with on the > client side, but on the server side. The problem lies in the fact that 1: not all OS's are easily synfloodable, seeing as not all OS's are easily sequences like fbsd is. 2: as the net grows more and more 'lusers' are running linux/fbsd/etc at home on a PPP link and therefore have root privs and can open a raw socket. 'Spoofing Warez' as they're known are becoming more and more prevalent on certain parts of IRC and its to the point now where the person spoofing you doesn't even have to know what they're doing, all they do is fill out a basic formula of command line arguments and *poof* they're you. For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop a large # of the spoofers. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 06:37:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA25244 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25238 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA08833; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605211337.IAA08833@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:37:06 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210520.FAA21386@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at May 21, 96 03:20:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I actually managed to provoke a crash with DDB at the ready while the system > was under heavy load! This is on different hardware (486/66, 16Mb with IDE, > the old one was 486/66, 8Mb, 1542B + barracuda) & without the suggested > alteration of splvm to be the same as splhigh) Mind you, it took two make > worlds & running the quake binary to do it. The backtrace is as follows (note > I've compiled the kernel with -O2 -m486) - > > panic: vm_page_activate: already active > There is a syndrome that everyone seems to be tripping over. It isn't spl related, and will be working on it tonight. John From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:05:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00594 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA00584 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01407; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: Jake Hamby cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Compatibility In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks jake. "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 21 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm experimenting with the Linux compatibility in ELF. I made > > /usr/lib/linux, put libc.so.5 (from Linux) in there and ldconfig'ed it. > > Where can I get the things like: > > > > ELF interpreter /compat/linux/lib/ld-linux.so.1 not found > > > > To put in that directory and use certain ELF applications? > > > > Regards, > > > > Marxx > > The best thing to do is download the Linux libraries port "linux_lib" > which is in ports-current. It contains the most common a.out and ELF > Linux libraries as well as ld-linux.so.1 and ld.so. Enjoy! > > ---Jake > > From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:09:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00792 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (sjf-ums.sjf.novell.com [130.57.10.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00786; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-SJF-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:06:10 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:15:30 -0700 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! Besides, I have many of them I want to run. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. >>> Jordan K. Hubbard 5/20 9:52pm >>> > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Oh, I know that (said Catalyst catalog also makes that fact pretty obvious :-) but 10% of 2000 apps is still a lot better than the 100% coverage of 3-4 apps we have now. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:10:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00908 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA00878 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01417; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:18:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <199605210905.CAA13074@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 21 May 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > >and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your > >clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. > > Any PC with an ethernet card on the network can open "raw" packets. You're right, that was my point exactly. User's on his servers aren't going to be opening raw sockets, like was mentioned. It's a raw socket, not a packet. > > And they might not even have to be there while the sniffer collects > data. I've seen the consequences first-hand. This has absolutely nothing to do with sniffing, we're talking about IP spoofing + TCP sequence number generation/prediction, get it straight. Marxx > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com > --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- > NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, > Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... > NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... > > Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. > If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:15:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01097 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01091 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01431; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:24:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 21 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > Using DES as a random number generator would be excellent, but might > > not be quick enough. It was rather nicely discussed in a IP spoofing and > > TCP sequence prediction paper I read. Being easy to syn flood + spoof has > > not much to do when it comes to FreeBSD vs. Linux, after 1.3.7x I believe > > a patch isn't even needed to spoof an IP packet. Let's face it, it would > > be somewhat silly to attempt to disallow IP packet spoofing, all you're > > doing it manually building a IP header, and sending it away. Traceroute > > and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your > > clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. > > Most spoofing/sequencing/hijacking attempts an experiments are from people > > with individual workstations, connected, not users on a server. > > Practically all Unices are easy to syn flood + spoof on, ok, it only takes > > 8 requests to hose, but that's irrelevant. The problem doesn't lye in how > > quickly, it's that it occurs. The problem shouldn't be delt with on the > > client side, but on the server side. > > > The problem lies in the fact that 1: not all OS's are easily synfloodable, > seeing as not all OS's are easily sequences like fbsd is. 2: as the net > grows more and more 'lusers' are running linux/fbsd/etc at home on a PPP > link and therefore have root privs and can open a raw socket. 'Spoofing > Warez' as they're known are becoming more and more prevalent on certain > parts of IRC and its to the point now where the person spoofing you doesn't > even have to know what they're doing, all they do is fill out a basic > formula of command line arguments and *poof* they're you. I agree, there is a number of packages being distributed. The bottom line is however, any TCP implementation can have it's seq's predicted, at the moment, even newer SVR4 implementation that alternate every 60 or so seconds can be taken care of. Stop banging on FreeBSD, every body is at risk. ;-) > > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, Child's play :P > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop > a large # of the spoofers. > > Brett > > From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:27:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA01621 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01614 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA32609; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:27:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:27:29 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605211527.AA32609@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Brett L. Hawn" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop > a large # of the spoofers. Which is why this was introduced in FreeBSD many months ago. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:37:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02540 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02519 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26796; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:36:50 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:36:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > I agree, there is a number of packages being distributed. The bottom > line is however, any TCP implementation can have it's seq's predicted, at > the moment, even newer SVR4 implementation that alternate every 60 or > so seconds can be taken care of. Stop banging on FreeBSD, every body is > at risk. ;-) I'm not 'banging on fbsd so much as pointing out that perhaps its time fbsd took a look at some of the stuff SysV is doing rather than just naysaying it. I've seen alot of BSD fans just automatically turn off the minute you mention SysV but being a user of both I'd have to say that SysV is inherently more secure if somewhat slower. Being part of the administration team of an ISP I can say without doubt that I will give up some speed for security, there are just too many people out there that could, would, will, and do abuse even the slightest hole. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:39:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02688 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA02676 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26897; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:39:10 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:39:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: Garrett Wollman cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <9605211527.AA32609@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, > > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop > > a large # of the spoofers. > > Which is why this was introduced in FreeBSD many months ago. You'll have to pardon me if I don't see it, as part of the discussion we played with my spoofing utility and I found 2.2 -current just as easy to spoof as 2.0.5. I tried to spoof 3 linux boxes, 2 Solaris boxes, and one HP-UX box, all of which failed miserably, this tells me something very important.. the sequencing routines are still very easy to guess. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:44:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA03472 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03457 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA32102; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:44:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:44:48 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605211544.AA32102@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Brett L. Hawn" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: References: <9605211527.AA32609@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > You'll have to pardon me if I don't see it, as part of the discussion we > played with my spoofing utility and I found 2.2 -current just as easy to > spoof as 2.0.5. Presumably your burglars' tools already have knowledge of the 4.4 RNG. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 08:49:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA03986 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03976 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27326; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:49:37 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:49:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: Garrett Wollman cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <9605211544.AA32102@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > You'll have to pardon me if I don't see it, as part of the discussion we > > played with my spoofing utility and I found 2.2 -current just as easy to > > spoof as 2.0.5. > > Presumably your burglars' tools already have knowledge of the 4.4 RNG. > Actually no, I haven't updated the program in some months, its remained pretty much static since 2.1 was released. Basically fbsd'd sequencing is too easy to match. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 09:13:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06249 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from davinci.isds.duke.edu (davinci.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06236 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diego.isds.duke.edu (diego.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.47]) by davinci.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA32073 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Gallatin Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by diego.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) id MAA18122; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605211613.MAA18122@diego.isds.duke.edu> To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: NFS v3 problem Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Understanding that I'm doing so at my own risk, I've been using the NFS v3 support in -current. And I've found a problem. I've been building some software from our departmental source archive. The filesystem is NFS mounted (from a Dec Alpha running Digital UNIX 3.2c) using the options -3,-l. Under this arrangement, I'm having a reproducible problem building a library that's a component of a stats package. When ar is run on an nfsv3 mounted fs I get the following problem: % ar cru libblas.a dasum.o daxpy.o dcopy.o ddot.o dmach.o dnrm2.o drot.o drotg.o dscal.o dswap.o idamax.o % ranlib libblas.a ranlib: libblas.a: Invalid argument I think that I've tracked this down to ar interacting with nfsv3; it doesn't seem to matter if the f77 or ranlib steps are run when the fs is mounted nfsv2 or nfsv3. Ranlib will always fail if ar was run on an nfsv3 mounted fs, and always succeed if ar was run on an nfsv2 mounted fs. If there's anything further I can do to help track this down, I'll be happy to help out however I can. BTW, my system is a Micron pentium-pro 180, some sort of Orian chipset, 16MB RAM, 1G IDE, $20 ne2000-clone ISA ethernet card. Drew From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 10:12:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11057 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11051 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA15825; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211706.KAA15825@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 21 May 96 07:18:54 -0400. Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:06:34 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your >> >clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. >> Any PC with an ethernet card on the network can open "raw" packets. > You're right, that was my point exactly. User's on his servers aren't >going to be opening raw sockets, like was mentioned. It's a raw socket, >not a packet. >> And they might not even have to be there while the sniffer collects >> data. I've seen the consequences first-hand. > This has absolutely nothing to do with sniffing, we're talking about >IP spoofing + TCP sequence number generation/prediction, get it straight. Whatever. For many people, sniffing is just part one of spoofing. Once you're that far, there isn't a whole lot left to get to spoofing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 10:22:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11728 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11708; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLv8J-0004KBC; Tue, 21 May 96 10:22 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Which LWP? The SunOS 4.x LWP, which is a user space library that > uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, or the kernel threads in > Solaris, also called LWP's? > > "There are no SunOS 4.x LWP's, there are only Solaris LWP's!" > "We have *always* been at war with the East!" > "There is no Dana, only Zuul!" > > The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. > > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > multithreading. I suspect it is the latter, as /usr/openwin/bin/ttsession is linked to libthread.so.1. BTW, since most Openwindows Deskset apps use ToolTalk to varying degrees (as does CDE), they will have problems in its absence. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 10:27:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12073 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12050; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01411; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605211722.KAA01411@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: davem@caip.rutgers.edu (David S. Miller) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210823.EAA07997@huahaga.rutgers.edu> from "David S. Miller" at May 21, 96 04:23:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. > > Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's etc. > although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being discussed. Yes. It uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel; these are closer to an event flag cluster than AST's. > Furthermore, the way Solaris does threads in the kernel has been > proven to be a lose (pre-emption, a billion mutexes in the kernel, > another thousand read writer locks) and expect the industry to move in > "another" direction. Computer science has proven that current smp > technology (read as: what SVR4.2MP based kernels do right now) cannot > scale past 32 cpu's without an exponential loss in performance. This is an artifact of their VM implementation, and the number is generally acknowledged to be 8 processors. It's possible to get a modified NUMA for an SMP environment using per processor page allocation pools. You're free to put SLAB allocators on top of those pages. This means that the allocation mutex need only be held when the per processor page pool is refilled/released to the general page pool. Using a hierarchical lock manager and computation of transitive closure over the lock hierarchy (treating it as a directed graph), coupled with intention mode locking, there should be a significant decrease in bus overhead. I *don't* think you'd want a non-symmetric implementation. It should be noted that multithreading UFS in SVR4 (UnixWare) resulted in a 160% performance improvement -- even after the performance loss for using mutexes for locking was subtracted out. > Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can > count in an unsigned char. ;-) So can the scheme described above. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 10:48:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13303 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13281; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLvXK-0004JrC; Tue, 21 May 96 10:47 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Darren Davis cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Darren Davis wrote: > Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to > UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction > for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! > Besides, I have many of them I want to run. > > Darren R. Davis > Senior Software Engineer > Novell, Inc. One problem with all this, before everyone gets too excited! :-) Unlike SCO or BSDI, where many programs are statically linked, nearly all SVR4 commercial software uses multiple shared libraries. This means that in the beginning, you will need to buy a copy of Solaris/x86 and/or UnixWare to get the shared libraries you need. This shouldn't be a problem for someone who works at Novell :-) and Solaris/x86 is available at substantial educational discount (ask your college bookstore!). Hopefully, in the not-too-distant future, we will be able to map the SVR4 API directly to our own libc with stub shared libs, and eliminate the requirement for actual SVR4 libraries, but not now. At any rate, I'm glad to see there is big interest in getting SVR4 emulation added to FreeBSD, and it's fortunate that there is active maintainance of NetBSD's SVR4 code that we will be stealing, er, using.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 11:09:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14433 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.91.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14409; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05548; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:42 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id OAA12006; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199605211808.OAA12006@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: terry@lambert.org CC: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605211722.KAA01411@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Terry Lambert Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) > Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's > etc. although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being > discussed. Yes. It uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel; these are closer to an event flag cluster than AST's. Agreed. It's possible to get a modified NUMA for an SMP environment using per processor page allocation pools. I agree. I once talked with Larry McVoy and we were discussing how we thought that a machine with N cpus and N high speed network interfaces (read as: SuperHippi or faster) should be able to keep the pipes of all interfaces full all the time with no contention whatsoever. The technique we came up with is similar to what you suggest. Basically you pre-allocate a pool of skiipy-bufs/mbufs per interface, no locking necessary to allocate/free things in the pool to run things throught the stack as packets come in and out. If an interface starves, and this is precisely the thing we want to keep from happening, it grabs the global allocation lock, acquires what it needs and since it's eating cycles anyways it looks at all the pools (reading state for the purposes of this heuristic requires no locking) for the interfaces and feed the queues which look like they could approach starvation. I *don't* think you'd want a non-symmetric implementation. This is what I get for not explaining how the implementation I mentioned functions. It is symmetric. Here is the basic idea: 1) Truly scaling in all areas to >4 cpus is difficult if not a complex task. However, medium graining to 4 cpus tops is "not too bad". This 4 cpu grouping is the cluster, and all activities running on that cluster run in a truly symmetric fashion. A somewhat stripped down instance of the kernel runs on each of these cpu clusters. The cluster has the capability to run jobs, and communicate in a fairly simplistic manner with other clusters. Of note is the ability to offload jobs or groups of jobs to another cluster if necessary and/or desirable. 2) Load state is maintained on a per-cluster basis. 3) Operations like fork() scan the clusters to find the cluster with the lowest aggregate load. This cluster is where to job is "communicated to". 4) As jobs run and the per cluster loads go up and down the clusters "push out" or "pull in" jobs so that they operate more efficiently and contention is decreased. You get as symmetric as is reasonable, but no further. The design can be modified to either: 1) have one master "cluster maintainer" kernel thing which does all the work of periodically scanning the loads of all the clusters and moves things around, this method offloads that processing from the clusters and they just run what they have, the only question left is who does the arbitration during things like "fork()" etc. 2) Just put the cluster load processing in the per-cluster kernel. In this particular implementation the hardware is a shared memory machine with all N processors accesing that same memory. It doesn't stop here however. But, it is the example that shows a problem that can be solved by the methodology described. I personally belive that the above described scheme can scale to a shared memory machine with more processors than you can count in an unsigned char, without any problems whatsoever. If your design is clean and done The Right Way(tm), you can take this architecture to other scenerios and setups. Your "clusters" could be uniprocessor workstations on a high speed FDDI ring, the FDDI ring acts as the cluster communications mechanism and the workstations are what is clustered for the jobs, they act and react within themselves. This "cluster" could also be a bunch of UNIX PC boxes on an everyday ethernet. The final example serves not only as a nice proof of concept, it also serves as a method by which "others can play". By this I mean that someone with a bunch of UNIX PC's and cheap ethernet to play with can actively work on such a project and are not left out in the dark because they do not possess a "645 processor SMP machine" ;-) Other directions are moving more than just the jobs, move socket objects around, move vnodes around, move session groups around, expand the pid space. Anything can be done at this point. See? A clean solution to the SMP scaling problem is so clean that it creates a direct pathway to a possible efficient distributed system implementation. It should be noted that multithreading UFS in SVR4 (UnixWare) resulted in a 160% performance improvement -- even after the performance loss for using mutexes for locking was subtracted out. > Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can > count in an unsigned char. ;-) So can the scheme described above. Here is what I am driving at. Ok, break up the page pools so that some locking is avoided. Well, now the filesystem is the bottleneck, so come up with a similar scheme of some sort so you don't grab so many locks and now this is faster. Well, not the FOO is the bottleneck, lets hack that as well.... You see there will always be something else, you cannot eliminate all the contention problems (ever think about what would be involved in implementing a low contention SMP locking scheme for the entire berkeley networking stack?). You've dug yourself into a hole and are trying now to dig yourself out, you may get partway out but you must stay in the hole inevitably. With clustering we are eliminating the hole altogether. There are many people who have been thinking constantly about SMP for many years, and what I present is basically what they have agreed is the most beneficial direction to move in. (careful readers will notice that this is also a move away from kernel bloat as well...) Why get performance with added complexity and maintanence hassle when you can get more performance with less complexity ;-) I'm sure many people are interested in this topic, and much work has started and is continuing on such work in the free operating system world. I invite those interested to join in the discussions taking place now in the MultiComputer project which has recently begun in the Linux camp (no this is not a shameless Linux plug, I would be overly thrilled to see a FreeBSD project of the same vein and a high level of communication between both groups). It is early still for the project, and it is at this point where I think the most interesting discussion occurs because we can talk about architecture instead of how we fucked up and need to fix things. The mailing list is linux-mc@samba.anu.edu.au and it is a ListServ based mailing list. Another interesting place for similar material can be found at the AP+ CAP project home page: http://cap.anu.edu.au/cap/projects/linux/ (the CAP AP+ project is work on a Sparc based parallel computer made by Fujitsu running SparcLinux, they have real parallel programs running and have done experiments with things like Gang Scheduling, handling asynchronous faults from within interrupt context, etc.) Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 11:11:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14659 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14653; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199605211811.LAA14653@freefall.freebsd.org> To: gallatin@stat.Duke.EDU Subject: Re: NFS v3 problem Cc: current Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If there's anything further I can do to help track this dow Take a look at the NetBSD source. The NetBSD people added NFS3 and turned it on by default. They found and fixed a bunch of problems in the process. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 11:25:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15365 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15357; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00264; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211824.LAA00264@precipice.shockwave.com> To: sos@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: bad keyboard reset routine? Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:24:57 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In a -current system as of this morning, I'm now getting: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> I never received this before. Is this something you should be aware of? From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 12:00:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA18564 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb3.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA18558; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01203; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:00:25 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605211900.VAA01203@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:00:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605211824.LAA00264@precipice.shockwave.com> from Paul Traina at "May 21, 96 11:24:57 am" From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Paul Traina who wrote: > In a -current system as of this morning, I'm now getting: > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > I never received this before. Me neither :) > Is this something you should be aware of? Maybe, I'm not up to current (just back from 8 holidays), and the current reports of vm problems makes me a little hesitant to upgrade just yet... (back to mail reading...) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 12:19:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20574 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20568 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA02565; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:19:37 -0700 (PDT) To: Andrew Gallatin cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NFS v3 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 12:13:15 EDT." <199605211613.MAA18122@diego.isds.duke.edu> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:19:37 -0700 Message-ID: <2563.832706377@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think that I've tracked this down to ar interacting with nfsv3; it > doesn't seem to matter if the f77 or ranlib steps are run when the fs > is mounted nfsv2 or nfsv3. Ranlib will always fail if ar was run on > an nfsv3 mounted fs, and always succeed if ar was run on an nfsv2 > mounted fs. > ... > If there's anything further I can do to help track this down, I'll be > happy to help out however I can. BTW, my system is a Micron I think the first step is to see what the differences between the v2 and v3 created versions of libblas.a are. Then you can try and work backwards to see what ar did to create the corrupt version of libblas and, in turn, which NFS operation is going awry. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 12:32:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21953 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21945 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01779; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 21 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > Using DES as a random number generator would be excellent, but might > > not be quick enough. It was rather nicely discussed in a IP spoofing and > > TCP sequence prediction paper I read. Being easy to syn flood + spoof has > > not much to do when it comes to FreeBSD vs. Linux, after 1.3.7x I believe > > a patch isn't even needed to spoof an IP packet. Let's face it, it would > > be somewhat silly to attempt to disallow IP packet spoofing, all you're > > doing it manually building a IP header, and sending it away. Traceroute > > and the such need to generate their own headers. Besides, unless your > > clueless losers and lame crackers gain root, they can't open raw sockets. > > Most spoofing/sequencing/hijacking attempts an experiments are from people > > with individual workstations, connected, not users on a server. > > Practically all Unices are easy to syn flood + spoof on, ok, it only takes > > 8 requests to hose, but that's irrelevant. The problem doesn't lye in how > > quickly, it's that it occurs. The problem shouldn't be delt with on the > > client side, but on the server side. > > > The problem lies in the fact that 1: not all OS's are easily synfloodable, > seeing as not all OS's are easily sequences like fbsd is. 2: as the net All OS's, that have real TCP implementations, are syn floodable at the moment. > grows more and more 'lusers' are running linux/fbsd/etc at home on a PPP > link and therefore have root privs and can open a raw socket. 'Spoofing > Warez' as they're known are becoming more and more prevalent on certain > parts of IRC and its to the point now where the person spoofing you doesn't > even have to know what they're doing, all they do is fill out a basic > formula of command line arguments and *poof* they're you. > > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop > a large # of the spoofers. > > Brett > > From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 12:47:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA23030 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaut.de ([194.39.177.166]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23025 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totum.plaut.de (totum.plaut.de [194.39.177.9]) by plaut.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA14525 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:15:20 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by totum.plaut.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA18253; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:46:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:46:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Reifenberger To: FreeBSD-Current Subject: Missing functions in FreeBSD. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, in order to port a (commercial) NetworkFaxSoftware to FreeBSD, I need: o either a termio.h or the information if I can wrap the termio routines to the termios ones (does anybody know the content of CBAUD?) o The faxsoftware seems to try to lock the Terminal-ttys. Is this necessary under FreeBSD? o The software uses a function to change data+text Segments explicit to readonly. How can this be done under FreeBSD (for the data Pages, because I think that FreeBSD's text-Segments are readonly anyway) Bye! ---- Michael Reifenberger From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 13:44:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28086 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28076; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02836; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:44:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Traina cc: sos@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 11:24:57 PDT." <199605211824.LAA00264@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:44:15 -0700 Message-ID: <2834.832711455@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been getting: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) On both my machines. Jordan > In a -current system as of this morning, I'm now getting: > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > I never received this before. > > Is this something you should be aware of? From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 13:52:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28640 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28603 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uLyPN-0003whC; Tue, 21 May 96 13:51 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA00209; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:51:51 GMT To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 11:27:29 -0400." <9605211527.AA32609@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:51:49 +0000 Message-ID: <207.832711909@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > < sai d: > > > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, > > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop > > a large # of the spoofers. > > Which is why this was introduced in FreeBSD many months ago. Well, we don't use it for TCP yet do we ? Mark ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 13:55:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28856 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28847 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA01868; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:53:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:53:47 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605212053.AA01868@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <207.832711909@critter.tfs.com> References: <9605211527.AA32609@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <207.832711909@critter.tfs.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: >> > For kicks some time ago I built a spoofer and I can tell you this much, >> > creating at least a pseudo-random number generator for sequencing will stop >> > a large # of the spoofers. >> >> Which is why this was introduced in FreeBSD many months ago. > Well, we don't use it for TCP yet do we ? What do you think I just said? Take a moment to examine tcp_iss in the debugger... -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 15:30:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05156 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05116 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02261; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:24:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212224.PAA02261@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NFS v3 problem To: gallatin@stat.Duke.EDU (Andrew Gallatin) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:24:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605211613.MAA18122@diego.isds.duke.edu> from "Andrew Gallatin" at May 21, 96 12:13:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Understanding that I'm doing so at my own risk, I've been using the > NFS v3 support in -current. And I've found a problem. [ ... ] > If there's anything further I can do to help track this down, I'll be > happy to help out however I can. BTW, my system is a Micron > pentium-pro 180, some sort of Orian chipset, 16MB RAM, 1G IDE, $20 > ne2000-clone ISA ethernet card. Tyy adding: options NQNFS # enable lease checking Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 16:22:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10562 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10551 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA08985 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA09921 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11211 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:08:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605212308.BAA11211@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:08:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2834.832711455@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 21, 96 01:44:15 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been > getting: > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) Interesting. :-) I vote for killing scprobe()'s keyboard reset attempt entirely. It's of no real use. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 16:23:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10635 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10608 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA00210 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:21:17 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199605212321.AAA00210@linus.demon.co.uk> From: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:21:17 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: panic: freeing held page Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk panic: freeing held page, count=4, pindex=0(0x0) This panic is from vm_free_page() in revision 1.72 of vm_object.c. Some more of the stack: _vm_free_page() _pmap_release() _vmspace_free() _cpu_wait() _wait1() _wait4() _syscall() Circumstances: I've had a few problems starting up X with the new VM code, sometimes hanging before olvwm starts up, sometimes after, sometimes getting SIGSEGVs from bash. The attempt before this panic gave me a window manager, but my xterms were hanging as they appeared (bash again). I CTL-ALT-BS'd out of the X server, and I had four bash processes in state R+ (I think: there may have been a small letter in there I forgot...), eating up CPU time. A straight "kill" on them had no effect; "kill -9" got me the panic. System: 486DX2/66, 16MB RAM, AHA1542C SCSI, ISA S3C801 video. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine at Home From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 17:09:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16810 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16804; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA29424; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:53:08 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220023.JAA29424@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:53:08 +0930 (CST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605211824.LAA00264@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at May 21, 96 11:24:57 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina stands accused of saying: > > In a -current system as of this morning, I'm now getting: > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) > sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard > sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> > > I never received this before. > > Is this something you should be aware of? _You_ should be reading the commit mails. And the -current mailing list; there must have been at least half a dozen posts about this. It's just indicating that your keyboard didn't respond properly to being reset. >From what work I've done with keyboards, I'm led to believe that this is pretty much par for the course these days. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 17:11:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17009 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (root@dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16988 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from selway.cs.uidaho.edu (selway.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.20]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id RAA21359; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by selway.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id RAA06044; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220010.RAA06044@selway.cs.uidaho.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: selway.cs.uidaho.edu: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 13:44:15 PDT." <2834.832711455@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:10:50 PDT From: faried nawaz Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote... Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been getting: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) On both my machines. Three machines here (p90/neptune micron, dx4-100 clone, 486-33 clone). From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 17:32:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA18554 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA18548 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA29621; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:13:35 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220043.KAA29621@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Missing functions in FreeBSD. To: root@totum.plaut.de (Michael Reifenberger) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:13:34 +0930 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Reifenberger" at May 21, 96 09:46:55 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Reifenberger stands accused of saying: > > Hi, > in order to port a (commercial) NetworkFaxSoftware to FreeBSD, I need: This will be available for commercial sale when you're done? > o either a termio.h or the information if I can wrap the termio routines to > the termios ones (does anybody know the content of CBAUD?) Most of them are compatible; CBAUD is replaced with cfgetispeed/cfsetispeed. If you need an example I can send you one, but it's easy 8) > o The faxsoftware seems to try to lock the Terminal-ttys. > Is this necessary under FreeBSD? Depends on why it's trying to lock them. If it's locking the callin port to use the callout port, no. You'll need to be more specific about this. > o The software uses a function to change data+text Segments explicit to > readonly. How can this be done under FreeBSD (for the data Pages, > because I think that FreeBSD's text-Segments are readonly anyway) Have to pass on this one; is it a vital requirement? > Michael Reifenberger -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 17:45:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19436 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19428 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <24208-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:44:26 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA20386; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:45:04 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA01916; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:45:37 GMT Message-Id: <199605220045.AAA01916@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:01 EST." <199605202353.SAA01994@dyson.iquest.net> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:45:35 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After installing the latest patches to vm_object.c (ctm src-cur 1809) I am now getting a new sort of panic! panic: cleaned vnode isn't _getnewvnode(1,f0932600,f0909800,efbffdac,efbffe08) at _getnewvnode+0x10d _ffs_vget(f0932600,2,efbffdc8,f01bb980,0) at _ffs_vget+0xa3 _ufs_root(f0932600,efbffe08,f091aa80,efbfff94,efbffea0) at _ufs_root+0x1c _lookup(,efbfff94,f0a60000,efbfff94,100) at _lookup+0x463 _namei(efbffea0,efbfff94,f0a60000,0,10540) at _namei+0x183 _stat(f0a60000,efbfff94,efbfff84,807d060,efbfdb78) at _stat+0x44 _syscall(10027,efbf0027,10540,efbfdb78,efbfdbd8) at _syscall+0x19c _Xsyscall() at _Xsyscall+0x35 --- syscall 188, eip = 0x806b7f1, ebp = 0xefbfdbd8 Enjoy Stephen PS fiddling with splvm = splhi didn't make too much of a difference. A couple of tests suggest that it just delayed the onset of the crash for a bit. -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 18:19:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22749 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22727; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA01774; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605220117.TAA01774@rover.village.org> To: "David S. Miller" Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 EDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : You see there will always be something else, you cannot eliminate all : the contention problems (ever think about what would be involved : in implementing a low contention SMP locking scheme for the entire : berkeley networking stack?). You've dug yourself into a hole and are : trying now to dig yourself out, you may get partway out but you must : stay in the hole inevitably. I think the figure that Solbourne was telling some poeple was about four or six man years to come up with a true SMP OS with fine grained locking. I seem to recall that about a year of that was for the networking code in SunOS 4.1.x. The OS/MP kernels scaled well past 4 CPUs and I think the most was something like 12 or so. I'm not sure if any larger number of CPU machines were ever built or not. I know that on a 3CPU system we got nearly 3.0 times three 1 CPU systems of the same speed (something like 2.9 for the specmarks). For an 8 CPU system it wasn't as good (7.5ish) but still well worth it. For a 12 CPU system, I think the number was down to 11ish, but most of that work was done after I left Solbourne. None of these numbers prove that it was a low contention TCP stack, but I know that an interesting number of companies still use big Solbourne Iron for their DP needs. It was a seriously non-trivial amount of work to get thigns to this point. This was the number one reason that the lag between Sun FCS and Solbourne FCS was so large. Don't know if clustering is the answer because then you get a lot of data copying overhead that is free on a shared memory MP box. Does lock contention get so bad that you actually win by data copying for huge numbers of CPUs? I don't know, but it is certainly an area of research that will be fruitful for a few years. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 18:20:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22907 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22902 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA29815; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:18:43 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605220118.UAA29815@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: panic: freeing held page To: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:18:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605212321.AAA00210@linus.demon.co.uk> from "Mark Valentine" at May 22, 96 00:21:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > panic: freeing held page, count=4, pindex=0(0x0) > > This panic is from vm_free_page() in revision 1.72 of vm_object.c. > > Some more of the stack: > > _vm_free_page() > _pmap_release() > _vmspace_free() > _cpu_wait() > _wait1() > _wait4() > _syscall() > Thanks, and the bug must/will be fixed in the next day or so!!! Sometimes, it takes a bit of pain to get any gain :-). Please if ANYONE sees any other kinds of panics, let me know!! Thanks again John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 18:45:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA24502 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24482; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02800; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:40:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605220140.SAA02800@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:40:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: davem@caip.rutgers.edu, terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605220117.TAA01774@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 21, 96 07:17:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't know if clustering is the answer because then you get a lot of > data copying overhead that is free on a shared memory MP box. Does > lock contention get so bad that you actually win by data copying for > huge numbers of CPUs? I don't know, but it is certainly an area of > research that will be fruitful for a few years. I haven't responded to the other post yet myself because of the time needed to give it fair treatment. I dislike the clustering soloution at a gut level. I have to say I agree that the data copying overhead is a big loss, especially if you plan to migrate processes between clusters (anyone else ever run Amoeba?). The locking overhead only applies to contended memory access; using per processor pools instead of a Solaris/SVR4 pure SLAB allocator resolves most of the locking issues. The locking overhead scales relative to bus contention and cache invalidation and/or update overhead for distributed cache coherency. This is more a design flaw in the SMP model used by Solaris/SVR4 than it is an inhernet flaw in the idea of shared memory SMP. Hybrid NUMA architectures using per processor page pools instead of sharing all memory are a big win (Sequent proved this; where Sequent screwed up was in not doing real FS multithreading. Even so, Sequent was able to scale a BSD-derived OS to 32 processors without a lot of undue overhead. The idea of SLAB allocation (as treated in the Vahalia book) is a good one; but it probably wants to be implemented on top of a per processor pool global memory allocator to make it less contentious. The idea of distributed cluster computing only works for small domain distribution; the net is currently too unreliable (and too slow) for any serious process migration over a big domain. And the net is probably only going to get worse in the short term. By the time it's fixed, I suspect content servers will have a big edge over compute servers as a desirable resource. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 18:49:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA24724 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24719 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02815; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:44:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605220144.SAA02815@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:44:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220045.AAA01916@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at May 22, 96 10:45:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > After installing the latest patches to vm_object.c (ctm src-cur 1809) I am now > getting a new sort of panic! > > panic: cleaned vnode isn't > > _getnewvnode(1,f0932600,f0909800,efbffdac,efbffe08) at _getnewvnode+0x10d > _ffs_vget(f0932600,2,efbffdc8,f01bb980,0) at _ffs_vget+0xa3 > _ufs_root(f0932600,efbffe08,f091aa80,efbfff94,efbffea0) at _ufs_root+0x1c > _lookup(,efbfff94,f0a60000,efbfff94,100) at _lookup+0x463 > _namei(efbffea0,efbfff94,f0a60000,0,10540) at _namei+0x183 > _stat(f0a60000,efbfff94,efbfff84,807d060,efbfdb78) at _stat+0x44 > _syscall(10027,efbf0027,10540,efbfdb78,efbfdbd8) at _syscall+0x19c > _Xsyscall() at _Xsyscall+0x35 > > --- syscall 188, eip = 0x806b7f1, ebp = 0xefbfdbd8 Look at my original vget/vclean patch for this and see if it helps; I was pretty sure that the fix the went in for this avoided the problem instead of fixing it. My patch was a kludge, but it addressed the actual problem location. It should be in the -current list archives (look for "free vnode isn't"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 19:45:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA28666 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28616; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id IAA11461; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:34 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605220243.IAA11461@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:33 +0600 (ESD) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Darren Davis" at May 21, 96 08:15:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to > UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction > for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! > Besides, I have many of them I want to run. BTW, SCO5 already has ELF support and most of its standard utilities are already compiled in ELF format (I think they did it to use the ELF shared libraries). -SB From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 20:36:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03804 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03799 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA25552 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:32:55 -0400 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199605220332.XAA25552@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Current crash kernel 5/21/96 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:32:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone else ever see this... I've got no crash dump -- but this showed in dmesg. It's happened twice under X without much going on. The system's running an Adaptec 1542 on ISA bus with 20 meg of memory (bounce buffers are in the kernel). I didn't see this with the -current from about a week ago. I just started seeing this after this morning's make world and a new sup tonight an a kernel rebuild... (dmesg output... follows) vable SCSI 1 st0(aha0:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, drive empty (aha0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-4101TA 3213" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(aha0:6:0): CD-ROM cd0(aha0:6:0): NOT READY asc:4,1 cd0(aha0:6:0): Logical unit is in process of becoming ready can't get the size scd0 not found at 0x230 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface apm0 not found joy0 at 0x201 on isa joy0: joystick new masks: bio c0004840, tty c003163a, net c003163a WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. panic: vm_page_activate: already active syncing disks... 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 giving up 1: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:852368, lblkno:852368 2: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:983136, lblkno:983136 3: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:197136, lblkno:197136 4: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:786576, lblkno:786576 5: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:96, lblkno:96 6: dev:0004040c, flags:21020034, blkno:65936, lblkno:65936 7: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:1179792, lblkno:1179792 8: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:1114240, lblkno:1114240 9: dev:00040404, flags:21020034, blkno:722128, lblkno:722128 10: dev:00040404, flags:a1020034, blkno:721344, lblkno:721344 11: dev:0004040c, flags:21020034, blkno:65600, lblkno:65600 12: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:176, lblkno:176 13: dev:00040404, flags:a1020034, blkno:721456, lblkno:721456 14: dev:00040404, flags:a1020034, blkno:787264, lblkno:787264 15: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:96, lblkno:96 16: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:144, lblkno:144 17: dev:0005040c, flags:a1020034, blkno:64, lblkno:64 18: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:64, lblkno:64 19: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:46224, lblkno:46224 20: dev:00000400, flags:a1020034, blkno:192, lblkno:192 21: dev:00000400, flags:21020034, blkno:46128, lblkno:46128 Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Rebooting... FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #2: Tue May 21 22:58:11 EDT 1996 pechter@i4got.lakewood.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/i4got Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i8254 clock: 1193207 Hz CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real memory = 20971520 (20480K bytes) avail memory = 18497536 (18064K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: generic, 80 col, color, 5 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.20-b24] pccard driver ed added ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 10 maddr 0xd8000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:42:cf:9d, type SMC8216/SMC8216C (16 bit) pccard driver sio added sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 5 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface mse0 at 0x23c irq 9 on isa psm0 at 0x60-0x63 irq 12 on motherboard fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0xff8004 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , multi-block-4 wd0: 500MB (1025136 sectors), 1017 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa (aha0:0:0): "FUJITSU M2263H-512 0168" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(aha0:0:0): Direct-Access 640MB (1312344 512 byte sectors) sd0(aha0:0:0): with 1658 cyls, 15 heads, and an average 52 sectors/track (aha0:1:0): "HP 97536T 8840" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 sd1(aha0:1:0): Direct-Access 308MB (630912 512 byte sectors) sd1(aha0:1:0): with 1663 cyls, 12 heads, and an average 31 sectors/track (aha0:4:0): "ARCHIVE VIPER 150 21247 -006" type 1 removable SCSI 1 st0(aha0:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, drive empty (aha0:6:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-4101TA 3213" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(aha0:6:0): CD-ROM cd0(aha0:6:0): NOT READY asc:4,1 cd0(aha0:6:0): Logical unit is in process of becoming ready can't get the size scd0 not found at 0x230 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface apm0 not found joy0 at 0x201 on isa joy0: joystick new masks: bio c0004840, tty c003163a, net c003163a WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com I'll run Win96 on my box when you pry the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. FreeBSD, OS/2, CP/M, RT11, spoken here. From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 21:20:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09876 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09812 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA00221; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:19:44 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605220419.XAA00221@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Current crash kernel 5/21/96 To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:19:44 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220332.XAA25552@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at May 21, 96 11:32:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone else ever see this... I've got no crash dump -- but > this showed in dmesg. It's happened twice under X without much going > on. The system's running an Adaptec 1542 on ISA bus with 20 meg of memory > (bounce buffers are in the kernel). > You are about the 100th person with the panic that you describe :-). Working on it. Again, if anyone else finds any manifestations of panics -- lemme know!!! John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 22:03:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15803 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15796 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA02201; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:47:05 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220517.OAA02201@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:47:04 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605212308.BAA11211@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 22, 96 01:08:12 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been > > getting: > > > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) > > Interesting. :-) > > I vote for killing scprobe()'s keyboard reset attempt entirely. It's > of no real use. Given that it will have reset on power-up, and the BIOS will have reset it again at least twice. It might be nice to make it an option depending on a 'flags' setting just in case someone needs it. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 23:01:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA19467 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA19460 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA11944; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:52:52 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:52:52 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605220552.PAA11944@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been >> getting: >> >> scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) This has only been reported about 10 times before :-). Philippe Charnier reported that the total delay needs to be at least 250 msec. It isn't clear whether this is caused by a strange keyboard or one of the software bugs. My keyboards take 3-5ms to return each of the reset response code.s >I vote for killing scprobe()'s keyboard reset attempt entirely. It's >of no real use. It is used to set the keyboard to a known state. E.g., it blows away the BIOS defaults for the keyboard repeat and delay rates (RAD), and it turns the keyboard LEDs off. Syscons doesn't track the RAD state, and scattach() calls update_leds(), and update_leds() sets the LEDs unconditionally, so it isn't essential to set the RAD and LEDs to a known state, but I think the keyboard should be reset just to reduce complications. There are more complications if the kernel is booted with -d. scinit() doesn't sync the physical LED state with the syscons variable for the LED state. It syncs the BIOS number-lock state with the syscons variable, but it doesn't sync the other BIOS lock-key states, so it is possible for the LEDs not to match the actual state. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue May 21 23:07:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA19703 for current-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA19698 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id HAA06641; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:45:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00578; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:48:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:48:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: Pat Caldon cc: John Fieber , Andreas@felix.antiquity.arts.su.edu.au, Klemm@felix.antiquity.arts.su.edu.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: /stand/ee In-Reply-To: <199605220503.PAA01699@felix.antiquity.arts.su.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 22 May 1996, Pat Caldon wrote: > An appropriate list of editors would be: > microemacs ctrl-shift-shit-meta-alt-return > vi :? > ee possibly good because it has online doc that seems understandable > pico seems to be simple, well online documented and very easy > joe (lots of DOS users know and love WordStar). In nowadays people know MS-Office products, but wordstar ????? I think one should offer vi and pico for installation in /stand For real life after Installation you should set EDITOR for choosing the right editor for you. Everybody is free to use other editors, that are available via the ports collection. - -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMaKqvfMLpmkD/U+FAQHVVAP/SJeQSZDutmCYhcSBZig9E/31FsILTiVi jjgXKwplEUFP4c/krx41QUiDoiqdhIu7il2VrNdAvqW+MTpfdxN/eiXBlOyGgIN5 9JDvhqrvw7+eR/vJkD16Qp23yTd95GH5x9ra3FnRLSKZXnE3VFVn79UzxvCgI5/w rfob+dk/424= =tGX2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 00:07:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23456 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA23449 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA00410; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:09:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: hamby1.lightside.net: jehamby owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@hamby1 To: Michael Smith cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-Reply-To: <199605220517.OAA02201@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > Thanks for reminding me.. I also meant to mention that I've been > > > getting: > > > > > > scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) > > > > Interesting. :-) > > > > I vote for killing scprobe()'s keyboard reset attempt entirely. It's > > of no real use. > > Given that it will have reset on power-up, and the BIOS will have reset > it again at least twice. It might be nice to make it an option depending > on a 'flags' setting just in case someone needs it. I too get that message. Good to hear that it's not serious. In which case it should not be printed as a "failure". Reminds me of an unusual bug in Solaris/x86 2.5 on my system where whenever you "touch /reconfigure" and reboot (or equivalently, "boot -r" which rebuilds the /dev directory and reprobes the hardware), the keyboard is completely frozen. The first few times I needed to do this, I just waited till the disk activity stopped then punched the Reset button! Finally I realized if you unplugged and replugged the keyboard cable it came back to life. Odd! :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |Jake Hamby| Ask me about Unix, FreeBSD, Solaris, The Tick, Motif, or NT, eh?| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Hi, can I interest you in buying some meat over the phone?" -Lotus commercial From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 00:42:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA25827 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25820 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26331-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:41:27 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id RAA01587 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:21:30 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id RAA22373; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:19:18 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:19:18 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199605220719.RAA22373@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Wildly inaccurate clock calibration. X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans claimed: >>May 16 17:01:33 stupid /kernel: 63814 Hz differs from default of 1193182 Hz by more than 1% > >You are experienced enough to debug it :-). Start by defining option >CLK_CALIBRATION_LOOP and booting with -v. Each calibration should take >about 1 second if the mc14* clock is working. Maybe if I just act dumb long enough, the problem will go away? ;-) Ok, for my first stab in the dark, I lowered the interrupt frequency (as in the patch below). This yielded very reasonable calibration values from 1193766 to 1193782 (difference of 16Hz, or 0.0013% variation) over 15 tests. Perhaps it is working now, or perhaps it has some more subtle systematic error. I can't tell yet for sure. If the set_timer_freq() call is necessary, and must be lower for slow 386 CPUs, it could be set based on the probed CPU type. What observable system feature will change if I accept 1193782Hz vs the default of 1193182Hz (600Hz difference)? Will I be able to check "date" vs wall clock and find 43sec difference over 1 day? Is this stuff used yet? Stephen. --- clock.c-1.58 Tue May 14 14:07:09 1996 +++ clock.c Wed May 22 12:13:53 1996 @@ -542,7 +542,7 @@ * Temporarily calibrate with a high intr_freq to get a low * timer0_max_count to help detect bogus i8254 counts. */ - set_timer_freq(timer_freq, 20000); + set_timer_freq(timer_freq, 2000); freq = calibrate_clocks(); #ifdef CLK_CALIBRATION_LOOP if (bootverbose) { From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 00:44:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA25968 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaut.de ([194.39.177.166]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25963 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totum.plaut.de (totum.plaut.de [194.39.177.9]) by plaut.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA15461; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:10:33 +0200 Received: (from root@localhost) by totum.plaut.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19282; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:43:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:43:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Reifenberger To: Michael Smith cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Missing functions in FreeBSD. In-Reply-To: <199605220043.KAA29621@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:13:34 +0930 (CST) > From: Michael Smith > To: Michael Reifenberger > Cc: current@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Missing functions in FreeBSD. > > Michael Reifenberger stands accused of saying: > > > > Hi, > > in order to port a (commercial) NetworkFaxSoftware to FreeBSD, I need: > > This will be available for commercial sale when you're done? Yes. > > > o either a termio.h or the information if I can wrap the termio routines to > > the termios ones (does anybody know the content of CBAUD?) > > Most of them are compatible; CBAUD is replaced with cfgetispeed/cfsetispeed. Could we integrate a dump termio.h with wrappers to the termios functions/structures into the sourcetree (a'la malloc.h)? > If you need an example I can send you one, but it's easy 8) Yes please, 'cause I have no termio.h to compare... > > > o The faxsoftware seems to try to lock the Terminal-ttys. > > Is this necessary under FreeBSD? > > Depends on why it's trying to lock them. If it's locking the callin > port to use the callout port, no. You'll need to be more specific > about this. I'll look. > > > o The software uses a function to change data+text Segments explicit to > > readonly. How can this be done under FreeBSD (for the data Pages, > > because I think that FreeBSD's text-Segments are readonly anyway) > > Have to pass on this one; is it a vital requirement? I hope not. Thanks for reply. Bye! ---- Michael Reifenberger From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 02:19:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA04189 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04175 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA05308; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:18:35 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 15:52:52 +1000." <199605220552.PAA11944@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 02:18:35 -0700 Message-ID: <5306.832756715@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It is used to set the keyboard to a known state. E.g., it blows away the > BIOS defaults for the keyboard repeat and delay rates (RAD), and it turns Can we kill the error message then since so many keyboards seem to exhibit this problem? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 03:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12777 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12700 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA26630; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:20 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15661; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA13960; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:52:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605220952.LAA13960@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Missing functions in FreeBSD. To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:52:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: root@totum.plaut.de (Michael Reifenberger) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Michael Reifenberger at "May 22, 96 09:43:45 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Reifenberger wrote: > Could we integrate a dump termio.h with wrappers to the termios > functions/structures into the sourcetree (a'la malloc.h)? Doesn't make much sense (and strictly spoken, termios is not downgradable to termio, since termio doesn't support the concept of distinct input and output speeds -- but neither does our hardware ;). Converting something from termio to the Posix-blessed termios is usually done in less than half an hour. The biggest difference aside from the appended `s' is usually that you gotta replace the ioctl cruft by tcgetattr()/tcsetattr(), and the speed stuff by cfsetspeed(). If your application requires more than half an hour to convert it, it's perhaps better to rewrite it instead. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 03:35:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15744 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15738 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA22977; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:33:54 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:33:54 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605221033.UAA22977@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It is used to set the keyboard to a known state. E.g., it blows away the >> BIOS defaults for the keyboard repeat and delay rates (RAD), and it turns >Can we kill the error message then since so many keyboards seem to >exhibit this problem? :-) No. Fix the driver. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 04:49:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA21103 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 04:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA21098 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 04:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA25788; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:44:06 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:44:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605221144.VAA25788@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Wildly inaccurate clock calibration. Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>May 16 17:01:33 stupid /kernel: 63814 Hz differs from default of 1193182 Hz by more than 1% >Ok, for my first stab in the dark, I lowered the interrupt frequency (as >in the patch below). This yielded very reasonable calibration values from >1193766 to 1193782 (difference of 16Hz, or 0.0013% variation) over 15 tests. >Perhaps it is working now, or perhaps it has some more subtle systematic >error. I can't tell yet for sure. This seems like the right fix. The interrupt frequency of 20000 must have been a little too high. I would have expected it to work though, since no interrupts are involved. calibrate_clocks() just needs to read both the clocks within somwhat less than the period of the fastes clock (50us in this case). I see a range of 1192166 to 1192175 on a 486/33. The slow 386 is doing well to have less than twice as much variation. Most of the variation for a short test is caused by the latencies between the first and last change of the RTC and when these changes are detected. The maximum latency is a little larger for the 386. Please check that TIMER0_LATCH_COUNT is large enough for the slow 386. It must be < 62.5 so that microtime() works with a clock interrupt frequency of 16000 for pcaudio. 16000 is probably to large for the slow 386. This is best fixed by not using pcaudio, but TIMER0_LATCH_COUNT needs to work in all cases. Perhaps it should be a variable. >If the set_timer_freq() call is necessary, and must be lower for slow 386 >CPUs, it could be set based on the probed CPU type. It can be be set to hz (= 100) now. I made it large to excercise the timer overflow handling and to trap bogus counts that might result from reading something like 0xff from the hardware registers. Bogus counts don't seem to be a problem. >What observable system feature will change if I accept 1193782Hz vs the >default of 1193182Hz (600Hz difference)? Will I be able to check "date" >vs wall clock and find 43sec difference over 1 day? Is this stuff used >yet? It is only used if you configure the kernel with option CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION or run `sysctl -w machdep.i8254_freq=1193782'. Changing machdep.i8254_freq by 600 changes the timer maximum count by 600.0/hz (rounded to nearest) = 6. I think there are no rounding errors in this case, so the difference should indeed be about 43 seconds/day. You want this iff the RTC is more accurate than the i8254. You can probably get more accuracy by giving an accurate frequency in the sysctl command. Accuracy is currently limited to about 50 parts in 1193182 by the rounding in the conversion to a maximum count. This is worth improving iff it is larger than the inaccuracy due to temperature changes etc. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 05:06:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA21997 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ian.iafrica.com (root@ian.iafrica.com [196.31.1.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA21992; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ian.iafrica.com (khetan@ian.iafrica.com [196.31.1.15]) by ian.iafrica.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA01089; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:07:57 +0200 (SAT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:07:57 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: stable@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Latest ports files Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all. Is there anyway to get the latest ports files from current without having to get the entire lot every two / three days ? I am sure it is possible through CVS and CTM, but don't know the syntax. I tried cvs update -Pd -rRELENG_2_1_0 ports, and this extracted a ports directory with all the files, but they all had ,v at the end, and seemed more a version information file than anything else. I am sorry if this has been asked previously or if the answer is in a faq somewhere. I just cannot find it. --- Khetan Gajjar Visit at http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ UUNet-Internet Africa Operations help@iafrica.com or 0800-030-002 From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 06:45:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA27322 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from expresslane.ca (expresslane.ca [205.233.74.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA27309; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (james@localhost) by expresslane.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06315; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT) From: James FitzGibbon To: Khetan Gajjar cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest ports files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Khetan Gajjar wrote: > I am sorry if this has been asked previously or if the answer is in a faq > somewhere. I just cannot find it. Read the handbook with regards to SUP and CTM. In /usr/share/examples/sup, there is a sample ports-supfile that can be used for SUPping the ports-current collection. The CTM files are on freefall.freebsd.org in a clearly marked directory as I recall. -- j. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | James FitzGibbon james@expresslane.ca | | Technical Operations Voice/Fax: 416-239-3765/3279 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 07:09:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28347 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lear35.cytex.com (root@lear35.cytex.com [38.252.97.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA28342 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mbartley@localhost) by lear35.cytex.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00185 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Bartley Message-Id: <199605221409.HAA00185@lear35.cytex.com> Subject: panic: vm_page_activate: already active To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:09:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Late last night I re-supped and started a make world. Sometime during it, apparently during the "make cleandist" it crashed. According to the message during bootup, it was a panic: vm_page_active: already active and then it saved the coredump to /var/crash. Nothing else got logged. Is there a way to log the entire crash message? I also have no idea what to do with the core dump besides watch it run my /var partition out of disk space. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 07:57:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA01720 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bacchus.eng.umd.edu (bacchus.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01713 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by bacchus.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07515 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.6.4) id KAA01655; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@cappuccino.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: editors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is about an easy editor, changing ee for pico. First, I want to say that I agree, anyone who is even slightly serious about software should never use pico. Still, watching other students in beginning C++ and Pascal classes using pico (because they CAN) when the teacher keeps on pushing emacs and vi makes me understand that people want an easily understandable editor, no matter what. That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 09:07:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06060 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06054 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA04887; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605221607.JAA04887@precipice.shockwave.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.6 3/24/96 To: Garrett Wollman cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , current@freebsd.org, blh@nol.net Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 16:53:47 EDT." <9605212053.AA01868@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:04 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Garret, Brett is absolutely correct. I just looked at what was done for tcp_iss. If tcp_init is not called on every connection (it's not), then the whole design of the ISS randomization looks wrong to me. We're making tcp_iss random in tcp_init.c, but then manipulating it in totally predictable ways. This is not random at all. The ISS needs to be randomized on a PER tcp connection attempt. I realize that violates RFC 793, but it has to be done. Paul From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 09:11:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06495 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (nj-ums.fpk.novell.com [147.2.128.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06490; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-NJ-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:08:24 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:17:06 -0400 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, DARREND@novell.com Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply - Reply Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Serge A. Babkin 5/21 8:43pm >>> >BTW, SCO5 already has ELF support and most of its standard >utilities are already compiled in ELF format (I think they did it to use >the ELF shared libraries). > >-SB The SCO Open Desktop implementation of ELF is an abomination. There ELF support is basically incompatible with any SVR4. I think they did a disservice to the Unix community for creating yet another binary format. Though given the work and their direction with SVR3.2 at the time, it was probably their only choice. In talking with some of their engineers, they would have loved to do an SVR4 implementation of ELF, but they had too many constraints. I guess it's a moot point today :-( Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 09:13:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06940 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06921 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19766; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:13:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:13:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... vi. ee is a bit strage, but I only use pico to edit email, and that only because it interfaces well with pine. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 09:16:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07269 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ceme.umd.edu (ceme.umd.edu [129.2.70.229]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07264 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by ceme.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12878; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.6.4) id MAA02466; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:16:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@cappuccino.eng.umd.edu To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > vi. > > ee is a bit strage, but I only use pico to edit email, and that > only because it interfaces well with pine. Matt, this isn't for YOU, that'd be an insult. This's for all those guys that post on questions "I'm just starting on unix ....". They can't start on vi because it's too confusing for them, same with emacs. Go find a new user, ask them how easy it is to learn vi. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 10:08:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10813 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10808 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMHOl-0004KGC; Wed, 22 May 96 10:08 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please do this! Pico is probably Unix's easiest editor to use, and also very popular. New users would benefit _greatly_ from this. Even experienced users might benefit in the sense that programs like vipw wouldn't start up ee, which I found greatly confusing since it sort of looked like vi, but wasn't compatible with anything I knew. I mean, whose idea was ee in the first place? I don't find it noticably "easier" than vi, nor any more powerful! ---Jake On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > This is about an easy editor, changing ee for pico. > > First, I want to say that I agree, anyone who is even slightly serious > about software should never use pico. Still, watching other students in > beginning C++ and Pascal classes using pico (because they CAN) when the > teacher keeps on pushing emacs and vi makes me understand that people > want an easily understandable editor, no matter what. > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 10:50:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13542 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13523; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id TAA15695; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:30:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00501; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:28:36 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:28:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm To: jkh@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: got the FreeBSD 2.2 SNAPSHOT, great ! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Jordan ! Got the SNAP disk, it's very fine !!! Thanks for the work ! Andreas /// andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMaNOw/MLpmkD/U+FAQE9ygP/Y4rKGJWNyeGf+7j7z12SkDTADG2/oyeP jUGVaS2vupL6GC+SyBa3Jq91+VEDIjmpzHZh6wH/5AvvKbfStsWkcwjGE8kDE2iW HTFye+hoToUHcaX9eeR9w8iXwE79DrqnKQV3Fm1j9tMRJ4vqnSUFWDvd2RWoBVj5 Y1StHDbe3wM= =YcDW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 12:53:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21579 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21574 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26682; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:53:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:53:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Chuck Robey cc: FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > Matt, this isn't for YOU, that'd be an insult. This's for all those guys > that post on questions "I'm just starting on unix ....". They can't > start on vi because it's too confusing for them, same with emacs. Go > find a new user, ask them how easy it is to learn vi. If you make a product that idiots can use, only idiots will use it. :) It took me 4 months to so to be able to reliably exit vi withouth having to hang up the modem. Come on, this is unix, its not supposed to be that easy. All well, I'm standing in the way of progress again. Have a good one. (If it gets any easier to use, the tech-support weenies are going to be able to figure it out and I'll really have problems. *shudder* Imagine the trouble they could get into if they had an OS that made sense most of the time. At least with Linux they just wander in circles alot. I won't be able to say "I dunno why your box is broke, I don't use Linux." *sigh*) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 13:16:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA23078 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23073 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA03773; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: Paul Traina cc: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, blh@nol.net Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <199605221607.JAA04887@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Garret, > > Brett is absolutely correct. > > I just looked at what was done for tcp_iss. If tcp_init is not called on > every connection (it's not), then the whole design of the ISS randomization > looks wrong to me. > We're making tcp_iss random in tcp_init.c, but then manipulating it in > totally predictable ways. This is not random at all. The ISS needs to > be randomized on a PER tcp connection attempt. I realize that violates > RFC 793, but it has to be done. > > Paul > > You may be right, but other implementations don't randomize on every connection either. FreeBSD, at the moment, just has what other implementations have wrong. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 13:49:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26006 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25998 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA14215; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:48:02 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:47:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > You may be right, but other implementations don't randomize on every > connection either. FreeBSD, at the moment, just has what other > implementations have wrong. > So we're to say 'well, they're wrong so its ok for us to be' ? I think not Brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 13:57:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26768 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26762 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10199; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > vi. vi. > | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:04:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA27353 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27337 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03892; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > You may be right, but other implementations don't randomize on every > > connection either. FreeBSD, at the moment, just has what other > > implementations have wrong. > > > > So we're to say 'well, they're wrong so its ok for us to be' ? I think not > > Brett > > Of course not! The only point I was touching on, is the fact that you were wrong in making FreeBSD's implementation seem archaic and extremely insecure in comparison to others. Which it isn't. Marxx From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:11:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA27838 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27830 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03910; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:19:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When are you going to reply to the other letter I sent? I think it would interest us all. "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:26:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29109 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29103 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03944; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:35:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brett, at first you were talking about how easy it was to hose ports like 513 w/ SYN bit set packets, now you've moved into TCP sequence prediction, that's irrelevant to how hard it would be to predict a seq on a tcp session, in theory. The way the seq generator is right now, it's better than some commercial implementations. I'm not coping the "It's broken, but still better than the other stuff." attitude. You're blowing this out of perportion. *I* want to see what the hell you've done to prove FreeBSD is so insecure. If you built rbone, that's child's play; and harmless if you're sensible enough to use tcp wrappers, and besides, I think it still won't work. You're not going to create full-duplex connection based services and expect to see what you're doing, are you? I wanna see what I asked for in the other letter. "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:28:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29350 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29340 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16351; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:28:17 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:28:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > So we're to say 'well, they're wrong so its ok for us to be' ? I think not > > > > Brett > > > > > Of course not! The only point I was touching on, is the fact that > you were wrong in making FreeBSD's implementation seem archaic and > extremely insecure in comparison to others. Which it isn't. I disagree, considering all the testing I've done in the last few days with sequencing and synfloods I'd have to say fbsd is the all around loser in this category. I've tested the following OS's for ease of sequence guessing, guess which one was by far the easiest to screw with: FreeBSD Linux HP-UX Solaris 2.4 Solaris 2.5 Solaris 2.4x86 Solaris 2.5x86 SunOS 4.1.1 SunOS 4.1.3 (note that SunOS was pretty easy to fuck over as well) Irix BSDi 2.0 AIX (version unknown) UnixWare 2.3 and at least 2 others which I don't recall off hand Of all of these the FreeBSD and the SunOS machines were incredibly easy to hose up by guessing their tcp sequences, the others took on the average of 10 tries apiece to get even close. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:29:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29412 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29392 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16416; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:29:10 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:29:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > When are you going to reply to the other letter I sent? > I think it would interest us all. which one? I get updwards of 1000 emails a day, if I miss a few, thats life. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:33:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29762 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29750 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03967; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > > So we're to say 'well, they're wrong so its ok for us to be' ? I think not > > > > > > Brett > > > > > > > > Of course not! The only point I was touching on, is the fact that > > you were wrong in making FreeBSD's implementation seem archaic and > > extremely insecure in comparison to others. Which it isn't. > > I disagree, considering all the testing I've done in the last few days with > sequencing and synfloods I'd have to say fbsd is the all around loser in > this category. I've tested the following OS's for ease of sequence guessing, > guess which one was by far the easiest to screw with: > > FreeBSD > Linux > HP-UX > Solaris 2.4 > Solaris 2.5 > Solaris 2.4x86 > Solaris 2.5x86 > SunOS 4.1.1 > SunOS 4.1.3 (note that SunOS was pretty easy to fuck over as well) > Irix > BSDi 2.0 > AIX (version unknown) > UnixWare 2.3 > > and at least 2 others which I don't recall off hand > > Of all of these the FreeBSD and the SunOS machines were incredibly easy to > hose up by guessing their tcp sequences, the others took on the average of > 10 tries apiece to get even close. The problem doesn't lies in the sequence generator, the problem lies in the fact that any 4.{3.4}BSD derived OS gets hosed up by 8 SYN packets from an unreachable host, that's all, 8. That's why, as you notice, SunOS affected too. What I've been trying to say is that nothing is wrong with the generator, as compared to other OSs, FreeBSD's is actually better! The problem is that FreeBSD, as other BSD OSs, only takes 8 SYN packets from an unreachable host to hose. > > Brett > > From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:37:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00238 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00229 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03991; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: blh@nol.net cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles C. Figueiredo To: "Brett L. Hawn" Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing On Tue, 21 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > I agree, there is a number of packages being distributed. The bottom > > line is however, any TCP implementation can have it's seq's predicted, at > > the moment, even newer SVR4 implementation that alternate every 60 or > > so seconds can be taken care of. Stop banging on FreeBSD, every body is > > at risk. ;-) > > > I'm not 'banging on fbsd so much as pointing out that perhaps its time fbsd > took a look at some of the stuff SysV is doing rather than just naysaying > it. I've seen alot of BSD fans just automatically turn off the minute you > mention SysV but being a user of both I'd have to say that SysV is > inherently more secure if somewhat slower. Being part of the administration > team of an ISP I can say without doubt that I will give up some speed for > security, there are just too many people out there that could, would, will, > and do abuse even the slightest hole. > > Brett > > FreeBSD has an excellent tcp sequence prediction system, read your /usr/src/sys/netinet, then go read Solaris 2.5's tcp.c and compare. Look at tcp_random18() for example (a macro). I'de also like to know what you were attempting w/ TCP sequence prediction, if it was just how hard it was to hose the system w/ SYN bits, that's irrelevant to our number generator and the reliability of the implementation. That's dependant on the fact that the system is 4.4BSD based, which there's nothing wrong with. Now, if you're going to tell me that you tried to exploit r* services using tcp sequence prediction through port 513, well wrappers take care of that, I'de like to see you sequence a full-duplex connection based service, and prove FreeBSD cannot handle just as well as any other Unix. I want to know what you're doing w/ your experiments. You're merely giving me lists of stuff that's known by everyone. Regards, Marxx From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:37:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00262 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00253 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16965; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:36:30 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:36:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > Brett, at first you were talking about how easy it was to hose ports > like 513 w/ SYN bit set packets, now you've moved into TCP sequence > prediction, that's irrelevant to how hard it would be to predict a seq on > a tcp session, in theory. The way the seq generator is right now, it's better > than some commercial implementations. I'm not coping the "It's > broken, but still better than the other stuff." attitude. You're blowing > this out of perportion. *I* want to see what the hell you've done to > prove FreeBSD is so insecure. If you built rbone, that's child's play; > and harmless if you're sensible enough to use tcp wrappers, and besides, > I think it still won't work. You're not going to create full-duplex > connection based services and expect to see what you're doing, are you? > I wanna see what I asked for in the other letter. I never made any commentary towards ports 513 or the like, I think you are getting yourself confused. As for the tcp sequences, its quite easy to see, catch me on IRC one day when I'm not busy and I'll happily spoof you and pretend to be you just so you can see. Once we're done with that perhaps I'll wander around and pretend to be your system and go fuck with some .gov sites, I'm sure a visit from some federalies would just make your day no? The basic problem here is the fact that I've yet to have a problem pretending to be a fbsd box, which means for all intents and purposes that if I wanted to cause you a lot of hell I could. Personally I find the idea of someone being able to pretend their me enough reason to re-vamp the sequence generator. Last I checked fbsd was still incrementing in 64k jumps, even if the first ack is random, pretty simple from there. Brett BTW: You're taking this awfully personal aren't you? If I didn't know better I'd say you're acting your age. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:39:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00341 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00333 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17042; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:38:32 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:38:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem doesn't lies in the sequence generator, the problem lies > in the fact that any 4.{3.4}BSD derived OS gets hosed up by 8 SYN packets > from an unreachable host, that's all, 8. That's why, as you notice, > SunOS affected too. What I've been trying to say is that nothing is > wrong with the generator, as compared to other OSs, FreeBSD's is > actually better! The problem is that FreeBSD, as other BSD OSs, only > takes 8 SYN packets from an unreachable host to hose. Ok, so now we have two problems, 1: it only takes 8 syn's to hose fbsd 2: an easy to guess sequence generator. My guess is that #1 would be easier to avoid if #2 were fixed. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:43:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00748 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00735 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04009; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > Brett, at first you were talking about how easy it was to hose ports > > like 513 w/ SYN bit set packets, now you've moved into TCP sequence > > prediction, that's irrelevant to how hard it would be to predict a seq on > > a tcp session, in theory. The way the seq generator is right now, it's better > > than some commercial implementations. I'm not coping the "It's > > broken, but still better than the other stuff." attitude. You're blowing > > this out of perportion. *I* want to see what the hell you've done to > > prove FreeBSD is so insecure. If you built rbone, that's child's play; > > and harmless if you're sensible enough to use tcp wrappers, and besides, > > I think it still won't work. You're not going to create full-duplex > > connection based services and expect to see what you're doing, are you? > > I wanna see what I asked for in the other letter. > > I never made any commentary towards ports 513 or the like, I think you are > getting yourself confused. As for the tcp sequences, its quite easy to see, > catch me on IRC one day when I'm not busy and I'll happily spoof you and > pretend to be you just so you can see. Once we're done with that perhaps > I'll wander around and pretend to be your system and go fuck with some .gov > sites, I'm sure a visit from some federalies would just make your day no? > The basic problem here is the fact that I've yet to have a problem > pretending to be a fbsd box, which means for all intents and purposes that > if I wanted to cause you a lot of hell I could. Personally I find the idea > of someone being able to pretend their me enough reason to re-vamp the > sequence generator. Last I checked fbsd was still incrementing in 64k jumps, > even if the first ack is random, pretty simple from there. > > Brett > > BTW: You're taking this awfully personal aren't you? If I didn't know better > I'd say you're acting your age. > > I'm sorry brett, but it's evedant that you're taking this personally, and you don't know what you're talking about. The only thing you're going to do over IRC, is compile a IRC sequencing warez you downloaded, and couldn't code if you're life depended on it, and use it to irc, now you can't see what is going on on irc, all you can do is send messages, and have a normal client on the same channel watching. As for the .gov sites, all you're going to do is get rbone off a warez buddy, compile, and hack rlogin on some old machine running sendmail v4. I'de hate to brake the news to you, but I'de get all your RSTs and such logged on my machine, so when the feds came, I could just point them to you. Any hell you try causing me, will just make you seem even lamer, and get you in trouble. Who's acting like who's age? I still have yet to see some real explantions, examples and logs of anything you do, instead of just babble. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:49:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01265 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01230 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17788; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:48:57 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:48:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > FreeBSD has an excellent tcp sequence prediction system, read your > /usr/src/sys/netinet, then go read Solaris 2.5's tcp.c and compare. > Look at tcp_random18() for example (a macro). I'de also like to know > what you were attempting w/ TCP sequence prediction, if it was just how > hard it was to hose the system w/ SYN bits, that's irrelevant to our > number generator and the reliability of the implementation. That's > dependant on the fact that the system is 4.4BSD based, which there's > nothing wrong with. Now, if you're going to tell me that you tried to > exploit r* services using tcp sequence prediction through port 513, well > wrappers take care of that, I'de like to see you sequence a full-duplex > connection based service, and prove FreeBSD cannot handle just as well as > any other Unix. I want to know what you're doing w/ your experiments. > You're merely giving me lists of stuff that's known by everyone. Now I see where you dug the port 513 out of, you're the one who mentioned it, not me. Ok, lets see here, right off the top of my brain I could easily spoof you on IRC and cause you a great deal of pain (having been the victim of one such spoof I can tell you just how much pain it can cause). Next down the line would be 'secure' systems that rely on IP/FQDN for their interaction, I don't need a full duplex connection, all I need to do is get on and do what I mean to do. So I can't see whats coming back, if I have a well thought out plan its my guess that I don't need to see whats coming back. The idea is not to create a full duplex connection, the idea is to 1: knock you out of service, 2: disrupt your service, 3: connect long enough one way to get something done that will allow me to sneak in via a new backdoor, 4: lord only knows what else those minds which are more creative than I have though of. Brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 14:51:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01492 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01457 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17905; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:50:52 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" cc: Paul Traina , Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > I'm sorry brett, but it's evedant that you're taking this > personally, and you don't know what you're talking about. The only thing > you're going to do over IRC, is compile a IRC sequencing warez you > downloaded, and couldn't code if you're life depended on it, and use it > to irc, now you can't see what is going on on irc, all you can do is send > messages, and have a normal client on the same channel watching. As for > the .gov sites, all you're going to do is get rbone off a warez buddy, > compile, and hack rlogin on some old machine running sendmail v4. > I'de hate to brake the news to you, but I'de get all your RSTs and > such logged on my machine, so when the feds came, I could just point them > to you. Any hell you try causing me, will just make you seem even lamer, > and get you in trouble. Who's acting like who's age? I still have yet to > see some real explantions, examples and logs of anything you do, instead > of just babble. > > I'm going to pretend I never got this email from you. brett From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 15:17:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03309 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03300 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMMDG-0004JzC; Wed, 22 May 96 15:17 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can't run Linux static ELF binaries? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just discovered, while trying to upgrade my /compat/linux/lib directory to the latest version of ld.so (1.7.14), that both the new ldconfig and ldd coredump immediately when run. Both are statically linked ELF executables. As a workaround, I installed everything in the ld.so package except for ldconfig and ldd, and am still using the old a.out ldconfig and ldd from linux_lib-2.0. The only problem is that the old ldconfig doesn't properly recognize libc.so.5.3.16 and libm.5.0.6 as valid ELF libraries and links the old versions. Oddly enough, it does link the new version of libc to a file called "syntax_options". I was able to workaround by deleting the old libc and libm, and manually creating the proper symlinks to libc.so.5. If any of the Linux/ELF-meisters have a chance to look at this bug it would be a good idea. Personally, I'm busy with adding SVR4 compatibility from NetBSD, so I might find some bugs from that end, but don't have time to investigate this one. Thanks! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 15:33:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04159 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.iafrica.com ([196.7.74.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03936; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from khetan@localhost) by chain.iafrica.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA01226; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:28:31 +0200 (SAT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:28:31 +0200 (SAT) From: Khetan Gajjar To: James FitzGibbon cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest ports files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, James FitzGibbon wrote: > Read the handbook with regards to SUP and CTM. In > /usr/share/examples/sup, there is a sample ports-supfile that can be used > for SUPping the ports-current collection. The CTM files are on > freefall.freebsd.org in a clearly marked directory as I recall. I found out how - it's as simple as cvs update ports! --- Khetan Gajjar Visit at http://www.iafrica.com/~khetan/ UUNet-Internet Africa Operations help@iafrica.com or 0800-030-002 From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 16:40:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA09781 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09775 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMNW8-0004JrC; Wed, 22 May 96 16:40 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Chris J. Layne" cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chris J. Layne wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > > > vi. > > vi. In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, but since pico is more popular, and we ARE doing this for newbie's, I narrowly lean towards that. I would NOT choose ee, as it has no advantage over vi to me, nor would I expect, to a new user. So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 17:08:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12421 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12315 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11909; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Jake Hamby cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > ---Jake Pico. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 17:19:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA13112 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13104 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26972-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:19:22 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA17653; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:19:58 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA26735; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:20:41 GMT Message-Id: <199605230020.AAA26735@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 18:44:10 MST." <199605220144.SAA02815@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:20:40 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had hoped that this was a FS corruption, but it appears not to be. I've newfs'd & restored from tape, but I can still reliably reproduce the problem (when mtree is run with BSD.root.dist on /). I deleted all my mail archives recently and as a result no longer have the patch in question floating about. I'm very willing to work with you guys on this so that a fix can be found & committed ASAP. It appears as if each new revision of the VM subsystem seems to flush out bugs elsewhere... Stephen > > After installing the latest patches to vm_object.c (ctm src-cur 1809) I am now > > getting a new sort of panic! > > > > panic: cleaned vnode isn't > > > > _getnewvnode(1,f0932600,f0909800,efbffdac,efbffe08) at _getnewvnode+0x10d > > _ffs_vget(f0932600,2,efbffdc8,f01bb980,0) at _ffs_vget+0xa3 > > _ufs_root(f0932600,efbffe08,f091aa80,efbfff94,efbffea0) at _ufs_root+0x1c > > _lookup(,efbfff94,f0a60000,efbfff94,100) at _lookup+0x463 > > _namei(efbffea0,efbfff94,f0a60000,0,10540) at _namei+0x183 > > _stat(f0a60000,efbfff94,efbfff84,807d060,efbfdb78) at _stat+0x44 > > _syscall(10027,efbf0027,10540,efbfdb78,efbfdbd8) at _syscall+0x19c > > _Xsyscall() at _Xsyscall+0x35 > > > > --- syscall 188, eip = 0x806b7f1, ebp = 0xefbfdbd8 > > Look at my original vget/vclean patch for this and see if it helps; > I was pretty sure that the fix the went in for this avoided the > problem instead of fixing it. > > My patch was a kludge, but it addressed the actual problem location. > > It should be in the -current list archives (look for "free vnode isn't"). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- The views expressed above are not those of the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland, Australia. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 17:50:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17207 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA17192 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04251; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:59:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Brett L. Hawn" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Brett L. Hawn wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles C. Figueiredo wrote: > > > FreeBSD has an excellent tcp sequence prediction system, read your > > /usr/src/sys/netinet, then go read Solaris 2.5's tcp.c and compare. > > Look at tcp_random18() for example (a macro). I'de also like to know > > what you were attempting w/ TCP sequence prediction, if it was just how > > hard it was to hose the system w/ SYN bits, that's irrelevant to our > > number generator and the reliability of the implementation. That's > > dependant on the fact that the system is 4.4BSD based, which there's > > nothing wrong with. Now, if you're going to tell me that you tried to > > exploit r* services using tcp sequence prediction through port 513, well > > wrappers take care of that, I'de like to see you sequence a full-duplex > > connection based service, and prove FreeBSD cannot handle just as well as > > any other Unix. I want to know what you're doing w/ your experiments. > > You're merely giving me lists of stuff that's known by everyone. > > > Now I see where you dug the port 513 out of, you're the one who mentioned > it, not me. > > Ok, lets see here, right off the top of my brain I could easily spoof you on > IRC and cause you a great deal of pain (having been the victim of one such > spoof I can tell you just how much pain it can cause). Next down the line > would be 'secure' systems that rely on IP/FQDN for their interaction, I > don't need a full duplex connection, all I need to do is get on and do what > I mean to do. So I can't see whats coming back, if I have a well thought out > plan its my guess that I don't need to see whats coming back. The idea is > not to create a full duplex connection, the idea is to 1: knock you out of > service, 2: disrupt your service, 3: connect long enough one way to get > something done that will allow me to sneak in via a new backdoor, 4: lord > only knows what else those minds which are more creative than I have though > of. > > Brett > > Spoofing irc is no big deal, really. No, you don't need to work in full-duplex, but if you manage to connect, you still have to login and gain root. If you want knock out service, or disrupt, or create backdoors, do it elegantly w/ hijacking. I invite you to have a shot at apocalypse.superlink.net. Managing to sequence connection based services is only worth the trouble when a network is firewalled, and even then, a good firewall is smart enough to stop sequencing attacks of the sort. Marxx From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 18:31:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22550 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA22545 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net (relay-4.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.108]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA29595 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:30:07 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ad00558; 22 May 96 23:51 GMT Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa20759; 23 May 96 0:50 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA11686; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:49:03 GMT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:49:03 GMT From: James Raynard Message-Id: <199605222249.WAA11686@jraynard.demon.co.uk> To: current@freebsd.org CC: toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No core dumps here, (un?)fortunately, but I do get strange behaviour if I try to start up Emacs after connecting up to my ISP. This has only started since I started running with the new VM code. A typical session goes like this:- 1. Dial into ISP using kernel PPP (from a root xterm). 2. As soon as the connection is made, the ISP sets up several SMTP channels to my machine (is that the correct term?). This typically causes 6-8 copies of sendmail to run simultaneously, accompanied by a good deal of forking. 3. My dial script also kicks off slurp. This is a passive NNTP client which requests and downloads news articles simultaneously. 4. I also usually FTP the latest CTM files for cvs-current. 5. When slurp has finished, I run 'rnews -U' to unbatch the articles it has collected. 6. When all my mail has arrived, I close the PPP connection and switch to another virtual window (this is under fvwm). 7. I then do 'telnet localhost', log in as one of my pseudo-users and do 'emacs &'. At this point, strange things can happen. Occasionally emacs will appear to start, but then print out a bogus error message and refuse to do anything. Sometimes it doesn't start, but spews out a load of byte code on the xterm, or an infinite stream of error messages. Once, nothing at all appeared to happen! (And sometimes it works normally). According to top, I always have over 20MB of swap available when this happens and about 9 or 10M of RAM, and everything else appears to be working normally. I don't usually have many applications running - just a few xterms open. However, emacs is using a massive amount of CPU time, and I have to kill it from another xterm. Once I've killed it, it'll start again with no problems. This may possibly be an emacs problem (it's the -release port, compiled under -release; I'll try re-compiling it), or it may be because I'm slightly low on swap (I have 24MB RAM and 64MB swap). But I thought it might be worth mentioning. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland jraynard@dial.pipex.com james@jraynard.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 18:36:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA23242 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rogerswave.ca (mail.rogerswave.ca [198.231.117.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23209; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wong.rogerswave.ca (wong.rogerswave.ca [204.92.17.32]) by rogerswave.ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA24568; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:17:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Wong To: Terry Lambert cc: Jake Hamby , jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > multithreading. are you sure? last time I look at it, was that LWP is just another process that at will share somebody's code and data segments. use union to make use of the process table entries in otherwise regular process table. You are right that they are being used for multithreading in c and ada implementation. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 19:04:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25973 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25963 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.206]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07054; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA24429; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: Jake Hamby cc: "Chris J. Layne" , "Matthew N. Dodd" , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chris J. Layne wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > > > > > vi. > > > > vi. > > In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an > editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on > the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, > but since pico is more popular, and we ARE doing this for newbie's, I > narrowly lean towards that. I would NOT choose ee, as it has no advantage > over vi to me, nor would I expect, to a new user. > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? I appreciate the defense, Jake, but it's not on the mark. I hate pico, I would never use it, but neither you, I, nor Chris qualify as new users. I am talking about a new user's editor, period. Something to replace ee, NOT to replace any tool that any of us use now. I am talking about lowering the fear level for approaching FreeBSD. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 19:04:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25992 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from davinci.isds.duke.edu (davinci.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25950 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diego.isds.duke.edu (diego.isds.duke.edu [152.3.22.47]) by davinci.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05227; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Gallatin Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by diego.isds.duke.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) id WAA24184; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605230204.WAA24184@diego.isds.duke.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NFS v3 problem In-Reply-To: <2563.832706377@time.cdrom.com> References: <199605211613.MAA18122@diego.isds.duke.edu> <2563.832706377@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > I think that I've tracked this down to ar interacting with nfsv3; it > > doesn't seem to matter if the f77 or ranlib steps are run when the fs > > is mounted nfsv2 or nfsv3. Ranlib will always fail if ar was run on > > an nfsv3 mounted fs, and always succeed if ar was run on an nfsv2 > > mounted fs. > > I think the first step is to see what the differences between the v2 > and v3 created versions of libblas.a are. Then you can try and work > backwards to see what ar did to create the corrupt version of libblas > and, in turn, which NFS operation is going awry. After doing a little digging, I see that the v2 and local disk version of what ar spits out is 61454 bytes of meaningful data, but the v3 version is all 0's above 57352 bytes. According to ktrace, the last thing ar does before closing the file is to ftruncate() it to the size it should be. an ar with the ftruncate() called hacked out of it produces a file 57352 bytes long. Apparently ftruncate() is accounting for the 0's. So.. basically, it looks like, give or take a few bytes, the last 8 512-byte blocks of the file are not being written. Where to go from here? BTW: Terry, I enabled NQNFS to no effect. I don't think that DEC supports the leasing extensions to V3, at least not as of DU 3.2c. Drew From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 19:18:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA27150 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27133 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA06744; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:02:05 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230232.MAA06744@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: coredump@nervosa.com (Chris J. Layne) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:02:05 +0930 (CST) Cc: winter@jurai.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris J. Layne" at May 22, 96 11:51:20 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris J. Layne stands accused of saying: > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > > > vi. > > vi. We've already established that 'vi' is not a candidate. If you can use 'vi', you know how to change things so that you get it as a default. You aren't the people that this is aimed at. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:20:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA04169 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA04116; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06176; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:14:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605230314.UAA06176@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: wong@rogerswave.ca (Wong) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:14:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Wong" at May 22, 96 09:17:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > > multithreading. > > are you sure? last time I look at it, was that LWP is just another process > that at will share somebody's code and data segments. use union to make > use of the process table entries in otherwise regular process table. Bzzzt. 1) per thread kernel stacks 2) kernel reentrancy for async calls 3) see John Dysons note on the process page table being shared. > You are right that they are being used for multithreading in c and ada > implementation. Yes; the libLWP (aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel) implementation was never "a supported configuration". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:33:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA05637 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05605 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06229; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:26:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605230326.UAA06229@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing To: blh@nol.net (Brett L. Hawn) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:26:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: marxx@apocalypse.superlink.net, pst@Shockwave.COM, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett L. Hawn" at May 22, 96 04:38:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem doesn't lies in the sequence generator, the problem lies > > in the fact that any 4.{3.4}BSD derived OS gets hosed up by 8 SYN packets > > from an unreachable host, that's all, 8. That's why, as you notice, > > SunOS affected too. What I've been trying to say is that nothing is > > wrong with the generator, as compared to other OSs, FreeBSD's is > > actually better! The problem is that FreeBSD, as other BSD OSs, only > > takes 8 SYN packets from an unreachable host to hose. > > Ok, so now we have two problems, 1: it only takes 8 syn's to hose fbsd 2: an > easy to guess sequence generator. My guess is that #1 would be easier to > avoid if #2 were fixed. Avoidance is a non-fix. Both really need to be fixed. Some general comments on this thread: The BSD problem is that the sequence number is randomized at the start of life and rather regularly guessable from there. I'm also not so thin-skinned as to believe that any criticism of FreeBSD is calling the baby ugly. IRC aside, it's wrong to dismiss Brett's points on the basis of religion. As Sgt. Pinback said to the Bomb, an idea is valid or invalid independent of its source. Personnally, I wouldn't be so casual dismissing the source; but even if you casually dismiss the source, the idea can not be so easily dismissed. Brett wants to make it better; don't shoot him in the head for bearing bad tidings because they are bad tidings. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:37:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06305 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06296 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06238; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:28:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605230328.UAA06238@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:28:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 04:40:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? ex. 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:41:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06703 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06693 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06257; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:30:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605230330.UAA06257@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:30:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230232.MAA06744@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 23, 96 12:02:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > vi. > > > > vi. > > We've already established that 'vi' is not a candidate. If you can use > 'vi', you know how to change things so that you get it as a default. > > You aren't the people that this is aimed at. May I suggest asking on -questions, or in the news group instead? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:45:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA07153 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07142 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA00448 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:13 -0700 Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id UAA06308 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00234; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:52:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: Terry Lambert cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , pst@Shockwave.COM, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-Reply-To: <199605230326.UAA06229@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > The problem doesn't lies in the sequence generator, the problem lies > > > in the fact that any 4.{3.4}BSD derived OS gets hosed up by 8 SYN packets > > > from an unreachable host, that's all, 8. That's why, as you notice, > > > SunOS affected too. What I've been trying to say is that nothing is > > > wrong with the generator, as compared to other OSs, FreeBSD's is > > > actually better! The problem is that FreeBSD, as other BSD OSs, only > > > takes 8 SYN packets from an unreachable host to hose. > > > > Ok, so now we have two problems, 1: it only takes 8 syn's to hose fbsd 2: an > > easy to guess sequence generator. My guess is that #1 would be easier to > > avoid if #2 were fixed. > > Avoidance is a non-fix. Both really need to be fixed. > > Some general comments on this thread: > > The BSD problem is that the sequence number is randomized at the start > of life and rather regularly guessable from there. The, just as important, problem is that BSD hoses easily, if it weren't so easily hosed, any type of sequencing attack wouldn't work. > > I'm also not so thin-skinned as to believe that any criticism of > FreeBSD is calling the baby ugly. FreeBSD is definitely not ugly ;-) > > IRC aside, it's wrong to dismiss Brett's points on the basis of > religion. As Sgt. Pinback said to the Bomb, an idea is valid or > invalid independent of its source. > > Personnally, I wouldn't be so casual dismissing the source; but > even if you casually dismiss the source, the idea can not be so > easily dismissed. > I'm not dismissing the source, I'm all for making it as secure as possible, but if you think aobut it, you can't really do anything w/ sequencing anymore. As long as you use tcp wrappers, which everyone should use, and you mind your r* services, all that can be done is a blind telnet to a horribly secured system. Even maintaining a telnet is hard. Most sequencing applications have been tricking port 513. It should still be fixed though. > Brett wants to make it better; don't shoot him in the head for > bearing bad tidings because they are bad tidings. > I want to, by all means, make it better, I began "shooting the head" after I found some of his post somewhat offending and lame. I don't want to drag this on any further, if I offended Brett in anyway, sorry, just end it, it's been silly for a while now. _Marxx > > Regards, > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 20:45:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA07204 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07191 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.206]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA23749; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA25915; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:43:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: Jake Hamby , coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605230328.UAA06238@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > ex. 8-) Et tu, Terry? This is getting a little frustrating. I am NOT suggesting replacing your favorite editor (ex, Terry, really?). I am talking about replacing the newbie editor, ee, with one that is universally useable by anyone without training, pico. This isn't for me, or most likely for ANYONE currently subscribed to this list. It's strictly for new users, and those just learning unix. Sheesh. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 21:03:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09023 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09012 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.206]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08522; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA21690; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:01:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: Michael Smith , coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605230330.UAA06257@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > vi. > > > > > > vi. > > > > We've already established that 'vi' is not a candidate. If you can use > > 'vi', you know how to change things so that you get it as a default. > > > > You aren't the people that this is aimed at. > > May I suggest asking on -questions, or in the news group instead? We're discussing what's to be changed in -current. This is the correct list for it. We just have to understand that your favorite editor is not being discussed. It's the newbie editor that's under discussion, whether to not to keep it as ee, or change it out for pico. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 22:19:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA17086 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA17070 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA07386; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:03:16 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230533.PAA07386@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:03:16 +0930 (CST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 22, 96 10:04:19 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey stands accused of saying: > > In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an > > editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on > > the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, But it _doesn't_ have to fit on the *#&%%$% boot floppy. It wants to be statically linked on the root filesystem, and maybe live on the _fixit_ floppy. The criteria here is _ease_of_use_by_a_relative_newcomer_to_unix_. Nothing else is particularly significant. 'ee' and 'pico' are both good candidates; they put the important keystrokes on the screen where they can be easily seen. They are modeless (try explaining a modal editor to someone who's never used one before; they'll look at you like you're some kind of drooling lunatic, I assure you) and they don't require amazing finger gymnastics to use (yes, _I_ use emacs). If you're a seasoned unixhead who worships the sectors vi abides within, I bet you can edit root's .chsrc to change the value of EDITOR faster than I can say "twoallbeefpattiesspecialsaucelettucecheesepicklesonionsonasesameseedbun" (and I used to get my free burger every time). > I am talking about lowering the fear level for approaching FreeBSD. _YES_ > Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 23:10:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA21557 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21545 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA01537; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:05:12 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:05:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605230605.QAA01537@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gallatin@stat.Duke.EDU, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: NFS v3 problem Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I think that I've tracked this down to ar interacting with nfsv3; it > > > doesn't seem to matter if the f77 or ranlib steps are run when the fs > > > is mounted nfsv2 or nfsv3. Ranlib will always fail if ar was run on > > > an nfsv3 mounted fs, and always succeed if ar was run on an nfsv2 > > > mounted fs. This problem is very old. I don't think nfsv3 has ever been usable in FreeBSD, although I use it every day, mostly read-only. >After doing a little digging, I see that the v2 and local disk version >of what ar spits out is 61454 bytes of meaningful data, but the v3 >version is all 0's above 57352 bytes. >According to ktrace, the last thing ar does before closing the file is >to ftruncate() it to the size it should be. an ar with the >ftruncate() called hacked out of it produces a file 57352 bytes long. >Apparently ftruncate() is accounting for the 0's. The problem seems to me much more fundamental. In the following program, under -current, the last write() doesn't make it to the disk: #include #include #include int main(void) { char buf[0x2000]; memset(buf, '1', 1); write(1, buf, 1); memset(buf, '2', 0x2000); write(1, buf, 0x2000); /* this block size is critical */ memset(buf, '3', 1); write(1, buf, 1); return 0; } $ mount -t nfs -o -3 localhost:/usr /mnt $ cd /mnt/somewhere/that/probably/doesnt/matter $ /tmp/aboveprog >z $ cat z # no 3 at the end There is also a vm bug in ktrace. This is independent of the nfs bug: $ cd /usr/src/lib/libtermcap $ make $ rm obj/libtermcap.a $ ktrace -id make $ cp ktrace.out z $ kdump >/dev/null # fails $ kdump -f z >/dev/null # works $ cmp ktrace.out z # fails Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed May 22 23:24:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23649 for current-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23644 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA19007; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:04:33 +0200 Message-Id: <199605230604.IAA19007@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Can't run Linux static ELF binaries? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:04:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 03:16:58 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jake Hamby who wrote: > What you are seeing is one of the "not so nice" features in ELF. It is currently impossible to tell what OS a static ELF binary is for, so the loader assumes (incorrectly) that it is a native FreeBSD ELF binary and boom.. There is NO pretty fix for this except marking the files in some way. We know the problem and the workaround, but infact we need coorporation with Linux/SVR4/whatever to set a standard for this, so its likely not to happen :( > I just discovered, while trying to upgrade my /compat/linux/lib directory > to the latest version of ld.so (1.7.14), that both the new ldconfig and > ldd coredump immediately when run. Both are statically linked ELF > executables. As a workaround, I installed everything in the ld.so > package except for ldconfig and ldd, and am still using the old a.out > ldconfig and ldd from linux_lib-2.0. > > The only problem is that the old ldconfig doesn't properly recognize > libc.so.5.3.16 and libm.5.0.6 as valid ELF libraries and links the old > versions. Oddly enough, it does link the new version of libc to a file > called "syntax_options". I was able to workaround by deleting the old > libc and libm, and manually creating the proper symlinks to libc.so.5. > > If any of the Linux/ELF-meisters have a chance to look at this bug it > would be a good idea. Personally, I'm busy with adding SVR4 > compatibility from NetBSD, so I might find some bugs from that end, but > don't have time to investigate this one. Thanks! > > ---Jake > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 00:40:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03625 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA03496 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I51H0W9P4G001TYK@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:39:10 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA24733 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:45:51 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:45:51 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: /usr/share/skel/dotfiles are overwritten To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605230745.JAA24733@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk make world overwrites /usr/share/skel/dotfiles. Is this the intention? Or is there a way override /usr/share/skel by /usr/local/share/skel or something? I mean, do the shells provide for such an alternate path? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 00:46:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04371 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (root@dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04366 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from selway.cs.uidaho.edu (selway.cs.uidaho.edu [129.101.100.20]) by dworshak.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08142; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by selway.cs.uidaho.edu (8.7.5/1.0) with SMTP id AAA11558; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605230746.AAA11558@selway.cs.uidaho.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: selway.cs.uidaho.edu: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 00:01:34 PDT." Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:02 PDT From: faried nawaz Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey wrote... On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > May I suggest asking on -questions, or in the news group instead? We're discussing what's to be changed in -current. This is the correct list for it. We just have to understand that your favorite editor is not being discussed. It's the newbie editor that's under discussion, whether to not to keep it as ee, or change it out for pico. There are far fewer newbies (if any) on -current than on -questions or in the newsgroup. Most people here use vi or emacs or joe, and have done so for years. I agree that this is the correct list to discuss a change in -current, but, as I believe Terry meant, it probably isn't the best list for soliciting names of newbie editors. I have a feeling that if people in -questions or the newsgroup were asked, they would probably want pico. I've never used `ee' in the install, but if I'm correct, it's used for post-install configuration (am I right?). Why not give the user a choice of an editor (from the packages) before it is needed/used for editing purposes? I personally don't like the idea of a "newbie" editor. Ever read those jokes about Linux "sysadmins" and pico? I'm not sure I would like to hear anything similar about FreeBSD from any quarter. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 02:07:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA17284 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA17256 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from max.ludd.luth.se (max.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.52]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id LAA22861 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:07:32 +0200 From: Tomas Klockar Received: (dateck@localhost) by max.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA02480 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:06:36 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:06:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199605230906.LAA02480@max.ludd.luth.se> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: editors Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I vote for gnome... From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 02:34:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA21609 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA21583 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA28350 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:33:28 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Thu, 23 May 1996 10:33:15 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA17769; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:32:50 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199605230932.KAA17769@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: editors To: nawaz921@cs.uidaho.edu (faried nawaz) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:32:50 +0100 (BST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230746.AAA11558@selway.cs.uidaho.edu> from "faried nawaz" at May 23, 96 00:46:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to faried nawaz who said > > I've never used `ee' in the install, but if I'm correct, it's used for > post-install configuration (am I right?). Why not give the user a choice > of an editor (from the packages) before it is needed/used for editing > purposes? It becomes the default editor for everyone period, something I don't think is a good idea at all. > > I personally don't like the idea of a "newbie" editor. Ever read those > jokes about Linux "sysadmins" and pico? I'm not sure I would like to > hear anything similar about FreeBSD from any quarter. There's a bit of a philosophy rift between those who are trying to make FreeBSD a mainstream popular OS and those that really don't care whether newbies get scared off by vi or not and just want FreeBSD to be the best Unix there is in the marketplace. Personally, I don't give a damn if some newbie gets scared off Unix because it doesn't have notepad. As I've already said, if they can't get over that hurdle then they can forget it because the rest of the stuff they have to learn is much scarier. I think that some people have been hacking Unix too long and think it's easy and are assuming that if we replace vi with something simpler unix will suddenly be more accessible. I think that's a fundamentally flawed opinion. It'll just delay things marginally, so, they've got this nice "type away" editor but they're going to quickly realise that adding users, configuring DNS/NFS and other network stuff, getting XFree86 working, setting up the filesystems etc etc etc is rather more difficult than clicking on the word icon and starting work. Given that all these editors have always existed it must amount to something that no-one who has stuck with Unix actually use anything other than vi or emacs. I've got no problem with providing alternative editors and I'll concede that vi is not a good idea for installation or newbies will never get FreeBSD up in the first place BUT I'm really against anything but vi becoming the default editor post-installation for *everyone*. I'm positive that *most* FreeBSD users are already unix hackers and making every one of them change the EDITOR variable is a damn pain. I'm not looking forward to the complaints from sites I've installed FreeBSD boxes in when all their die hard unix users suddenly find their EDITOR is now ee or even pico! Incidentally, I made the suggestion on -chat that the EDITOR setting become an installation option. -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 03:04:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA25131 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA25100 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uMXFd-000QZzC; Thu, 23 May 96 12:04 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA14510; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:22:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199605230922.LAA14510@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: editors To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:22:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 22, 96 10:04:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey writes: > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chris J. Layne wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: >>>>> That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This >>>>> is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with >>>>> pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... >>>> >>>> vi. >>> >>> vi. >> >> In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an >> editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on >> the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, >> but since pico is more popular, and we ARE doing this for newbie's, I >> narrowly lean towards that. I would NOT choose ee, as it has no advantage >> over vi to me, nor would I expect, to a new user. >> >> So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one >> of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > I appreciate the defense, Jake, but it's not on the mark. I hate pico, I > would never use it, but neither you, I, nor Chris qualify as new users. > I am talking about a new user's editor, period. Something to replace ee, > NOT to replace any tool that any of us use now. > > I am talking about lowering the fear level for approaching FreeBSD. OK, I think it's established that most people here wouldn't use pico (I heartily agree). The question is, is pico a good editor for beginners? I don't think so. It has too many non-intuitive control character functions. That probably puts it only slightly ahead of vi for real newbies. Isn't there some editor out there that vaguely resembles Microslop's 'edit'? It doesn't have to be the same, but the idea of using the standard function keys rather than control sequences would vastly raise the acceptance level for newbies. Does anybody know an editor which would meet these criteria? I haven't looked at micro emacs lately, so I don't know whether it can now (be persuaded to) do this, nor if it's small enough to be practical on the boot disk. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 03:15:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA26697 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA26685 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA08533; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:58:46 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605231028.TAA08533@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:58:45 +0930 (CST) Cc: nawaz921@cs.uidaho.edu, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230932.KAA17769@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at May 23, 96 10:32:50 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Richards stands accused of saying: > > In reply to faried nawaz who said > > > > I've never used `ee' in the install, but if I'm correct, it's used for > > post-install configuration (am I right?). Why not give the user a choice > > of an editor (from the packages) before it is needed/used for editing > > purposes? > > It becomes the default editor for everyone period, something I don't think > is a good idea at all. It becomes the default editor for _root_. FCOL, will people at least try to remember what the issues here are? > Personally, I don't give a damn if some newbie gets scared off Unix > because it doesn't have notepad. As I've already said, if they can't > get over that hurdle then they can forget it because the rest of the > stuff they have to learn is much scarier. I think that some people have Bollocks. You've obviously been away from the coalface _much_ too long. > been hacking Unix too long and think it's easy and are assuming that if > we replace vi with something simpler unix will suddenly be more > accessible. I think that's a fundamentally flawed opinion. It'll just > delay things marginally, so, they've got this nice "type away" editor > but they're going to quickly realise that adding users, configuring > DNS/NFS and other network stuff, getting XFree86 working, setting up > the filesystems etc etc etc is rather more difficult than clicking on > the word icon and starting work. No, it's not so easy. But at the same time, it _is_ a _shitload_ easier if the tool that you're using to edit all these files doesn't require a flowing white beard and a damaged forebrain to understand. > Given that all these editors have always existed it must amount to something > that no-one who has stuck with Unix actually use anything other than vi or > emacs. Until fairly recently, Unix was the exclusive preserve of hackers and serious programmers. In the last year or two this has changed, and people with some experience elsewhere are giving up on other systems and moving in. This is a Good Thing. We should _help_ them. This is a _small_ concession to make, and one that will be of immense value. > looking forward to the complaints from sites I've installed FreeBSD > boxes in when all their die hard unix users suddenly find their > EDITOR is now ee or even pico! But it's _NOT_GOING_TO_BE_. > Incidentally, I made the suggestion on -chat that the EDITOR setting > become an installation option. This is a good idea > Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 04:09:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA01791 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA01786 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03275; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:06:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: "Chris J. Layne" , "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 16:40:33 PDT." Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:06:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3273.832849573@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? There is room on the boot disk for only one editor, actually.. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 04:45:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA05673 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA05663 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous229.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.229]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA05162 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:30:12 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01007; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:11:55 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:11:55 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605231111.NAA01007@campa.panke.de> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: CTM & cvs update Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A full cvs update takes me 1952.43 real 92.37 user 190.84 sys This is slow. Can I use the output from ctm_rmail for a faster update? E.g.: $ ctm_rmail [options] > ctm_output_log_file 2>&1 $ cvs update `egrep ' > .. (src|ports)/' | awk '{print $NF}' | sed 's/,v$//'` Wolfram From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 05:17:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA07512 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA07507 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA08768; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:00:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605231230.WAA08768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:00:40 +0930 (CST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3273.832849573@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 23, 96 04:06:13 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > There is room on the boot disk for only one editor, actually.. :-( Delete it then, and make more space. You don't do any editing until _after_ you've installed stuff. Just put (whatever editor) in /stand or /root/bin or wherever in the bindist. Speaking of which, the bindist should probably be non-optional. (or at least under 'virgin install' conditions) > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 05:24:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA07810 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kryten.nina.com (dyn049-gnv.51.fdt.net [205.229.51.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA07783 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from frankd@localhost) by Kryten.nina.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA17541; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:21:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.com To: Jake Hamby cc: "Chris J. Layne" , "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chris J. Layne wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... > > > > > > vi. > > > > vi. > > In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an > editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on > the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, > but since pico is more popular, and we ARE doing this for newbie's, I > narrowly lean towards that. I would NOT choose ee, as it has no advantage > over vi to me, nor would I expect, to a new user. > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > ---Jake > Pico -- Frank From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 05:32:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08256 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from troll.uunet.ca (troll.uunet.ca [142.77.1.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA08251 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by troll.uunet.ca id <21005-23452>; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:32:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:32:34 -0400 From: Cat Okita To: Chuck Robey cc: Terry Lambert , Jake Hamby , coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > Et tu, Terry? This is getting a little frustrating. I am NOT suggesting > replacing your favorite editor (ex, Terry, really?). I am talking about > replacing the newbie editor, ee, with one that is universally useable by > anyone without training, pico. This isn't for me, or most likely for > ANYONE currently subscribed to this list. It's strictly for new users, > and those just learning unix. Am I correct in assuming that you're talking about a new user who is learning how to setup and administrate unix? If so, then what is the aim of the freebsd project - are we trying to make the OS as 'user friendly' as the Windows world? ...or is there an ongoing intention to get people past the simplistic nature of the microsoft 'os's? If it's new users on a system, what difference does it make :> That's just site choice :> c. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 05:33:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08281 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08276 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmarco.eclipse.org (ts1port5d.masternet.it [194.184.65.27]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04916 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:31:12 +0200 Message-ID: <31A4CB93.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:33:23 +0000 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors References: <3273.832849573@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I know I am a bit off-topics but I'd like to say my humble opinion about editors. For beginners, newbie and rookie (as I am) I think the best solution is uemacs... I occasionally use the others but I prefer this one ... not too much great , but intuitive and easy to use even if you are not an octopussy... Thanks for attention ... I hope I have not said a silly thing... -- Regards... +-------------------------------------+--------------------+ | Internet: gmarco@masternet.it | ,,, | | Internet: gmarco@nettuno.it | (o o) | | BIX : ggiovannelli@bix.com | ---oo0-(_)-0oo--- | | Fidonet : 2:332/113.0@fidonet | __ | | Amiganet: 39:102/507@amiganet | __/// Gianmarco | | http://www.masternet.it/dsc/gmarco | \XX/ | +-------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 06:04:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10410 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10405 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.206]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12558; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA18339; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:04:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: faried nawaz cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605230746.AAA11558@selway.cs.uidaho.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, faried nawaz wrote: > Chuck Robey wrote... > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > May I suggest asking on -questions, or in the news group instead? > > We're discussing what's to be changed in -current. This is the correct list > for it. We just have to understand that your favorite editor is not > being discussed. It's the newbie editor that's under discussion, whether > to not to keep it as ee, or change it out for pico. > > There are far fewer newbies (if any) on -current than on -questions or in > the newsgroup. Most people here use vi or emacs or joe, and have done so > for years. I agree that this is the correct list to discuss a change in > -current, but, as I believe Terry meant, it probably isn't the best list > for soliciting names of newbie editors. That's because I _wasn't_ soliciting names for alternative editors, I was proposing replacing ee with pico. I _wasn't_ suggesting replacing vi with pico. I was merely suggesting that ee is not automatically understandable by newbies, while I've already seen that pico is. If I ask a newsgroup, I will get chaos (why don't you use Microsft Word, for gosh sakes). I won't do that. > > I have a feeling that if people in -questions or the newsgroup were asked, > they would probably want pico. > > I've never used `ee' in the install, but if I'm correct, it's used for > post-install configuration (am I right?). Why not give the user a choice > of an editor (from the packages) before it is needed/used for editing > purposes? > > > > I personally don't like the idea of a "newbie" editor. Ever read those > jokes about Linux "sysadmins" and pico? I'm not sure I would like to > hear anything similar about FreeBSD from any quarter. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 06:09:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10716 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10711; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA00518; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 06:12:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby Message-Id: <199605231312.GAA00518@hamby1.lightside.net> To: sos@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Can't run Linux static ELF binaries? Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: hRSuGEYDIjK3Ieh9tZ6yeQ== Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Jake Hamby who wrote: > > > > What you are seeing is one of the "not so nice" features in ELF. > It is currently impossible to tell what OS a static ELF binary > is for, so the loader assumes (incorrectly) that it is a > native FreeBSD ELF binary and boom.. > There is NO pretty fix for this except marking the files in > some way. We know the problem and the workaround, but infact > we need coorporation with Linux/SVR4/whatever to set a standard > for this, so its likely not to happen :( Okay, thanks for the quick reply! This makes sense really, it looks like the way the ELF loader figures out which OS to run is by the filename of the dynamic loader (e.g. /lib/ld-linux.so for Linux, /usr/lib/ld.so.1 for SVR4). If the file is statically linked, well you'd expect the PT_PHDR section to contain some magic number for the OS, but I'll take your word that it doesn't. As a kludge, may I suggest that files within the /compat/linux directory be assumed to be Linux/ELF, and files in /compat/svr4 be assumed SVR4? Looks like the only statically linked programs are stuff like ldconfig anyway, which you would want to install in /compat so as not to conflict with FreeBSD's. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 06:18:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11346 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11339 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00937 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:42 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:40 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA24616; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:06 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199605231317.OAA24616@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: editors To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:05 +0100 (BST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD current mailing list) In-Reply-To: <199605231028.TAA08533@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 23, 96 07:58:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've replied to this fully on chat. In reply to Michael Smith who said > > > Personally, I don't give a damn if some newbie gets scared off Unix > > because it doesn't have notepad. As I've already said, if they can't > > get over that hurdle then they can forget it because the rest of the > > stuff they have to learn is much scarier. I think that some people have > > Bollocks. You've obviously been away from the coalface _much_ too long. What you on about? > > Incidentally, I made the suggestion on -chat that the EDITOR setting > > become an installation option. > > This is a good idea What editor does linux use by deafult? -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 06:20:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11536 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epprod.elsevier.co.uk (epprod.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11374 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by epprod.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00951 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:18:22 +0100 Received: from cadair.elsevier.co.uk (actually host cadair) by snowdon with SMTP (PP); Thu, 23 May 1996 14:18:21 +0100 Received: (from dpr@localhost) by cadair.elsevier.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA24711; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:56 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199605231317.OAA24711@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: editors To: gmarco@masternet.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:55 +0100 (BST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <31A4CB93.41C67EA6@masternet.it> from "Gianmarco Giovannelli" at May 23, 96 08:33:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Gianmarco Giovannelli who said > > For beginners, newbie and rookie (as I am) I think the best solution is > uemacs... > I'm curious, what exactly is a newbie in this context, what sort of user group are we trying to win over? -- Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 06:36:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12350 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA12345 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA00528; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby Message-Id: <199605231332.GAA00528@hamby1.lightside.net> To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, cat@uunet.ca Subject: Re: editors Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: EPcRhKbvzd0lh4yrz+cbDg== Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Am I correct in assuming that you're talking about a new user who is learning > how to setup and administrate unix? If so, then what is the aim of the > freebsd project - are we trying to make the OS as 'user friendly' as the > Windows world? ...or is there an ongoing intention to get people past the > simplistic nature of the microsoft 'os's? > > If it's new users on a system, what difference does it make :> That's just > site choice :> > > c. Well, this is a good point. I don't think it's THAT hard to learn "h, j, k, and l move the cursor around (although our vi also supports cursor keys :-), i or a insert or append text at that location, ESC gets you back to command mode, :wq means save and quit, and :q! means quit, don't save." In a perfect world, you would have your choice of editor at all times (and a fully X-based install, like Solaris), but the hard reality is that all of the established Unixes expect the administrator to have some competance with vi. Hmm, well I suppose with Solaris you could "/usr/openwin/bin/openwin" and "textedit", and I do know Unix admins (not competant ones :-) who use textedit and filemgr for their system maintainance. Just a scary thought. If there is room, and we can include pico in /stand or /usr/bin, that may be a good idea in the short term to get some people new to Unix able to edit config files without simultaneously painfully learning a new editor. However, in the long term, we should probably be encouraging new administrators to learn the standard tools so they will have the knowledge to administer other Unix-based systems (e.g. SunOS is a small jump from FreeBSD, of course SVR4 is much different but they both have in common vi). My other point is that ee wasn't much better than vi, from what I can tell, and confusing to myself to see it pop up when you run, e.g. vipw, although of course I knew how to change $EDITOR. Maybe the best thing to do is a very brief vi command summary in the documentation built into sysinstall? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 07:03:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13912 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13907 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA00669; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:02:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Richards cc: gmarco@masternet.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:55 BST." <199605231317.OAA24711@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:02:27 -0700 Message-ID: <666.832860147@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm curious, what exactly is a newbie in this context, what sort of > user group are we trying to win over? It's not a question of "winning over" anyone or waging any significant new campaigns - yeesh! Has this whole editor thing ever gotten blown out of proportion! All I've ever wanted with this was one very very simple thing: An editor that displays its keybindings on the screen. The set of people who've never seen vi before includes everyone from the unix newcomers to hardened computing professionals who've spent their entire careers using VM/CMS or VMS machines and define the word "editor" completely differently. For those people, I don't want to make a trip to Egghead for a vi book a necessary step in setting up FreeBSD on the new Gateway machine some lazy sunday afternoon. There are already enough complexities in trying to bring a new user up from a standing start (and yes, this SHOULD be possible - we're just not there yet) without adding a cryptic, multi-mode editor to the equation. For the record, I also bear _NO_ personal animosity to vi. I know vi very well indeed, I've used it for decades, I still use it about 50/50 with emacs (my fingers are simply wired for vi and I often use it in reflex even with an emacs window lying around nearby :-). This is not about the vi users, this is about how to do effective bootstrapping into UNIX and an entirely different topic. As to the root defaults, that's not a problem - I'll simply add an editor choice menu to sysinstall (where setting the editor has already been possible for awhile in the Options screen) and tack it on the configuration question path. Whichever editor is chosen will also be written into the root profile files at the time that /etc/sysconfig is updated. Problem solved? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 07:14:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14663 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14658 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA00720; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:14:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Paul Richards cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD current mailing list) Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 14:17:05 BST." <199605231317.OAA24616@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:14:12 -0700 Message-ID: <718.832860852@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Bollocks. You've obviously been away from the coalface _much_ too long. > > What you on about? This was an allusion to the fact that you haven't been out in your back yard in Wales recently, Paul. Go outside and see what's happening! :-) No, I think he actually meant this as a metaphor (which I've generally heard used by british programmers, actually) - being "at the coalface" means to be working at a much lower level, usually as some peon just-out-of-university programmer who's struggling to pick away at a set of problems that are totally new and different and right in his face. As I've already said in another email, from my perspective I just want things that are _self documenting_ in the installation path so that you don't have to reach for a stack of books just to install the system. If you had vi and some sort of "helper" app that actually showed you the keymap and basic usage instructions in a side window somehow, I'd happily use it here. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 07:28:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA15789 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15732 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id JAA07186 for freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:27:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:27:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199605231427.JAA07186@plains.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think editor preference is a "religious" issue simular to the Linux/FreeBSD debate. a good percentage of the people will be unhappy with whatever choice is made. Jordan, go dictator and choose one. > Isn't there some editor out there that vaguely > resembles Microslop's 'edit'? It doesn't have to be the same, but the > idea of using the standard function keys rather than control sequences > would vastly raise the acceptance level for newbies. by default, doesn't X remap the function keys when it starts? my concern is if we get someone fimilar with a function-key based editor, and then try to explain to this new user what to do when he/she start X. I professor has remapped jove to be like his DOS editor using .joverc files and we had to remap all his X functions keys because of the above. --mark. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 08:00:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18294 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18280 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA09701; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605231459.IAA09701@rover.village.org> To: Paul Traina Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing Cc: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, blh@nol.net In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:04 PDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:59:48 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : We're making tcp_iss random in tcp_init.c, but then manipulating it in : totally predictable ways. This is not random at all. The ISS needs to : be randomized on a PER tcp connection attempt. I realize that violates : RFC 793, but it has to be done. There was recently an RFC issued, as I'm sure you are aware, that suggests making the sequence number a random thing based on the MD-5 hash of the traditional TCP/IP 4-touple and some host private information (like output from /dev/random). Is that sufficient, or do sequence numbers need to be randomly jiggered more to prevent the attacks that are being whined, err ummm, talked about here? Per attempt is easy to ramdomize w/o violating 793 since you still have 2^31 bits of randomness that you can use (since the original request partitions the space in 2). Even if you picked a more conservative figure, you can make it fairly hard to guess the next ISS w/o significantly impacting the ability of TCP to detect and discard stale packets. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 08:55:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA22496 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22483 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uMcgz-000QYSC; Thu, 23 May 96 17:52 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA15274; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:41:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199605231541.RAA15274@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: panic: freeing held page To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:41:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current users) In-Reply-To: <199605220118.UAA29815@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at May 21, 96 08:18:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson writes: > >> >> panic: freeing held page, count=4, pindex=0(0x0) >> >> This panic is from vm_free_page() in revision 1.72 of vm_object.c. >> >> Some more of the stack: >> >> _vm_free_page() >> _pmap_release() >> _vmspace_free() >> _cpu_wait() >> _wait1() >> _wait4() >> _syscall() >> > Thanks, and the bug must/will be fixed in the next day or so!!! Sometimes, > it takes a bit of pain to get any gain :-). Please if ANYONE sees any other > kinds of panics, let me know!! Well, this one was a hang, not a panic, but it happened on the same kernel which was giving me the vm_page_activate syndrome all the time, so there's a good chance that it's related. I'll keep the dumps until I hear from you. Another possibly related thing: I had a number of cases where processes either spontaneously SIGSEGV, or they disappear without signalling their parent (typically you hit ^C and nothing happens, but the process is gone). I can probably drag up some .cores for you, but I don't know if that'll be much good. Greg IdlePTD 244000 current pcb at 20497c panic: from debugger During symbol reading, debug info mismatch between compiler and debugger. #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:940 940 dumppcb.pcb_ptd = rcr3(); (kgdb) bt #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../i386/i386/machdep.c:940 #1 0xf011fc97 in panic (fmt=0xf0101328 "from debugger") at ../../kern/subr_prf.c:127 #2 0xf0101345 in db_panic (dummy1=-266591309, dummy2=0, dummy3=-1, dummy4=0xefbffcf0 "") at ../../ddb/db_command.c:395 #3 0xf010122e in db_command (last_cmdp=0xf01f3b34, cmd_table=0xf01f3994) at ../../ddb/db_command.c:288 #4 0xf01013ad in db_command_loop () at ../../ddb/db_command.c:417 #5 0xf0103718 in db_trap (type=3, code=0) at ../../ddb/db_trap.c:73 #6 0xf01c218a in kdb_trap (type=3, code=0, regs=0xefbffdec) at ../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:136 #7 0xf01ca9d0 in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 1, tf_esi = 134, tf_ebp = -272630224, tf_isp = -272630252, tf_ebx = 6, tf_edx = -266591355, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = 38, tf_trapno = 3, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266591309, tf_cs = -272695288, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -266591371, tf_ss = -266431077}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:399 #8 0xf01c2a01 in calltrap () #9 0xf01ea2b2 in scgetc (noblock=1) at ../../i386/isa/syscons.c:2656 #10 0xf01e5e44 in scintr (unit=0) at ../../i386/isa/syscons.c:514 #11 0xf01c339e in Xresume1 () #12 0xf01cac2c in trap_pfault (frame=0xefbfffbc, usermode=1) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:631 #13 0xf01ca793 in trap (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 37107, tf_esi = 36928, tf_ebp = -272638452, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 82054, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 94272, tf_eax = 82054, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 4, tf_eip = 134447700, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 66194, tf_esp = -272639896, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:246 #14 0xf01c2a01 in calltrap () #15 0x2302 in ?? () #16 0x2fa3 in ?? () #17 0x1ace in ?? () #18 0x180e in ?? () #19 0x1095 in ?? () From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:08:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24450 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24443 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uMcuz-0003wvC; Thu, 23 May 96 09:07 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA01848; Thu, 23 May 1996 02:01:34 GMT To: Wolfram Schneider cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CTM & cvs update In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 13:11:55 +0200." <199605231111.NAA01007@campa.panke.de> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 02:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1846.832816891@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A full cvs update takes me 1952.43 real 92.37 user 190.84 sys > This is slow. Can I use the output from ctm_rmail for a faster > update? E.g.: > > $ ctm_rmail [options] > ctm_output_log_file 2>&1 > $ cvs update `egrep ' > .. (src|ports)/' | > awk '{print $NF}' | sed 's/,v$//'` If you make an option to ctm_rmail to do it, I'll review and approve even if you write it in COBOL :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:14:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24856 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24850 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11431; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605231614.JAA11431@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Warner Losh cc: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, blh@nol.net Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 08:59:48 MDT." <199605231459.IAA09701@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:14:01 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ BHL, could you send me a copy of your tools or a URL so I can verify your test results and check the randomness? -- Paul] From: Warner Losh Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing : We're making tcp_iss random in tcp_init.c, but then manipulating it in : totally predictable ways. This is not random at all. The ISS needs to : be randomized on a PER tcp connection attempt. I realize that violates : RFC 793, but it has to be done. There was recently an RFC issued, as I'm sure you are aware, that suggests making the sequence number a random thing based on the MD-5 hash of the traditional TCP/IP 4-touple and some host private information (like output from /dev/random). Is that sufficient, or do sequence numbers need to be randomly jiggered more to prevent the attacks that are being whined, err ummm, talked about here? That offers no improvement over just randomization. Per attempt is easy to ramdomize w/o violating 793 since you still have 2^31 bits of randomness that you can use (since the original request partitions the space in 2). Even if you picked a more conservative figure, you can make it fairly hard to guess the next ISS w/o significantly impacting the ability of TCP to detect and discard stale packets. That's what the 4.4 code currently tries to do, which worries me that BHL claims it's so easy to guess FreeBSD's number. It spins the bottom 21 bits on a per-connection basis according to my reading of the code. However, the random number generator that we're using could be badly broken, which is why I want to get BHL's tools and verify his tests. Paul From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:21:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25601 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25596 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA10068; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605231621.KAA10068@rover.village.org> To: Paul Traina Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing Cc: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, blh@nol.net In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 09:14:01 PDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:21:07 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : That offers no improvement over just randomization. As long as the randomization isn't predictible, yes. I'm not sure why they suggest the MD-5 hash. I wrote: : Per attempt is easy to ramdomize w/o violating 793 since you still : have 2^31 bits of randomness that you can use (since the original 31 bits Paul again: : However, the random number generator that we're using could be badly broken, : which is why I want to get BHL's tools and verify his tests. If it is a pseudo random number sequence generater, then it buys you nothing over += 30 because it is predictible (even if it is uniform and looks random). I've not tkaen a look at the code to know for sure if the randomness is good enough or not. Likely you need to do a /dev/random sort of thing that will be both uniform and unpredictable. Warner P.S. /dev/random here is a entropy gatherer in the kernel for the purpose of generating cryptographically strong random numbers. -stable doesn't seem to have this, not sure about -current. Linux does which is where I'm getting the nomenclature from. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:22:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25672 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25667 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15534; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15403; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:17:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Paul Richards cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605231317.OAA24711@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Paul Richards wrote: > In reply to Gianmarco Giovannelli who said > > > > For beginners, newbie and rookie (as I am) I think the best solution is > > uemacs... > > > > I'm curious, what exactly is a newbie in this context, what sort of > user group are we trying to win over? As for me, Mike Smith defined it well enough. Not someone new to computers, instead, someone new to unix. Someone who is trying to get his first FreeBSD system to allow a new user, or some other task right at the beginning of their unix experience. I wouldn't suggest to anyone that they stay with pico, but it lets people get their feet wet _before_ they get past their max frustration index and junk it all. Hopefully, then they move to a _real_ editor, but they'll never get started if they reach too high a frustration level too quickly, before they get tempted by all the tools. Lord knows I wasn't ever suggesting that anyone subscribed to this list would use pico. > > -- > Paul Richards. Originative Solutions Ltd. (Netcraft Ltd. contractor) > Elsevier Science TIS online journal project. > Email: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk > Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 (0)1865 843155 > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:38:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA27454 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27449 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02140; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 22:00:40 +0930." <199605231230.WAA08768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:36:12 -0700 Message-ID: <2138.832869372@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Delete it then, and make more space. You don't do any editing until _after_ > you've installed stuff. Just put (whatever editor) in /stand or /root/bin > or wherever in the bindist. Actually, it's on the root floppy not the boot floppy (I lied). And the root floppy is going away, so this may become a slightly different question soon. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 09:41:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA27892 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27885 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11518; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605231640.JAA11518@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Warner Losh cc: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , current@FreeBSD.ORG, blh@nol.net Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 10:21:07 MDT." <199605231621.KAA10068@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:40:06 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, the MD5 hash would make it much less predictable, even it it was stable, so that could certainly be the reason. Say we do: ulong foo[] = MD5(hostname+secret+random); tcp_iss += 0x3ffff & (foo[0] ^ foo[1] ^ foo[2] ^ foo[3]); that should give us the properties we want. The bottom bits get highly jittered and should (hah) be relatively unpredictable (who knows how the xor hurts MD5). From: Warner Losh Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing : That offers no improvement over just randomization. As long as the randomization isn't predictible, yes. I'm not sure why they suggest the MD-5 hash. I wrote: : Per attempt is easy to ramdomize w/o violating 793 since you still : have 2^31 bits of randomness that you can use (since the original 31 bits Paul again: : However, the random number generator that we're using could be badly broken >>, : which is why I want to get BHL's tools and verify his tests. If it is a pseudo random number sequence generater, then it buys you nothing over += 30 because it is predictible (even if it is uniform and looks random). I've not tkaen a look at the code to know for sure if the randomness is good enough or not. Likely you need to do a /dev/random sort of thing that will be both uniform and unpredictable. Warner P.S. /dev/random here is a entropy gatherer in the kernel for the purpose of generating cryptographically strong random numbers. -stable doesn't seem to have this, not sure about -current. Linux does which is where I'm getting the nomenclature from. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 10:08:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01261 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kanto.cc.jyu.fi (root@kanto.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01252 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kallio@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kanto.cc.jyu.fi (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA16071; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:08:24 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:08:24 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: Chuck Robey cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > That being the case, I have b'maked pico, and given it to Jordan. This > > > is a chance to everyone to comment, and tell me that replacing ee with > > > pico is wrong. If you don't want this to happen, now's your chance ... Yes, emacs is great but pig and hard to learn for a novice. I use pico a lot, it's starting fast and have similar commands as emacs Often I use use pico -zw or pico -tzw Seppo From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 10:22:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03075 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kanto.cc.jyu.fi (root@kanto.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03070 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kallio@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kanto.cc.jyu.fi (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA16348; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:17:14 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:17:13 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: "Chris J. Layne" cc: Jake Hamby , "Matthew N. Dodd" , Chuck Robey , FreeBSD current Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chris J. Layne wrote: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > ---Jake > > Pico. pico Seppo From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 10:52:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05425 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05420 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA07713; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:43:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605231743.KAA07713@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:43:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 22, 96 11:43:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > > > ex. 8-) > > Et tu, Terry? This is getting a little frustrating. I am NOT suggesting > replacing your favorite editor (ex, Terry, really?). I was joking -- see that smiley way out to the right? 8-). You said "other than vi". > I am talking about replacing the newbie editor, ee, with one that > is universally useable by anyone without training, pico. This isn't > for me, or most likely for ANYONE currently subscribed to this list. > It's strictly for new users, and those just learning unix. > > Sheesh. Pico is a good idea. A better idea would be something like DOS "EDIT" (the full screen version). The problem there is the 'alt' key would need to be replaced; probably with 'esc' and you use "insert 'esc'" from the menu to put in an escape. 8-(. But in a pinch, Pico is closer to the ideal than ee (I always get stuck in emacs, mostly because it depends on fully working tty code and I like to hack tty code occasionally). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 10:55:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05529 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05522 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA07727; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:45:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605231745.KAA07727@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:45:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, coredump@nervosa.com, winter@jurai.net, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 23, 96 00:01:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > You aren't the people that this is aimed at. > > > > May I suggest asking on -questions, or in the news group instead? > > We're discussing what's to be changed in -current. This is the correct list > for it. We just have to understand that your favorite editor is not > being discussed. It's the newbie editor that's under discussion, whether > to not to keep it as ee, or change it out for pico. I still think asking the newbies their favorite simple editor couldn't hurt. I feel like a senator from one state arguing with another senator from another state over welfare reform in a third state. Why not ask the senator from the third state what *he* thinks? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 11:40:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08218 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08213 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archive.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa29640; 23 May 96 14:39 EDT Received: from stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA10433; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA12215; Thu, 23 May 96 14:39:31 EDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Paul Richards , Michael Smith , FreeBSD current mailing list Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <718.832860852@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > As I've already said in another email, from my perspective I just want > things that are _self documenting_ in the installation path so that > you don't have to reach for a stack of books just to install the > system. If you had vi and some sort of "helper" app that actually > showed you the keymap and basic usage instructions in a side window > somehow, I'd happily use it here. > > Jordan Erm... Does ":help" count as "_self documenting_"? It spits out the following brief message: +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ To see the list of vi commands, enter ":viusage" To see the list of ex commands, enter ":exusage" For an ex command usage statement enter ":exusage [cmd]" For a vi key usage statement enter ":viusage [key]" To exit, enter ":q!" Needless to say, ":viusage" lists more than you want to know. Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, System Administrator --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! NVL, NIIMS and Telemedicine Labs -->>| For an application and information Member: League for Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 12:24:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10955 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10847 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id MAA20076; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605231923.MAA20076@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: freebsd + synfloods + ip spoofing To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: pst@Shockwave.COM, wollman@lcs.mit.edu, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org, blh@nol.net In-Reply-To: <199605231621.KAA10068@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 23, 96 10:21:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Warner > > P.S. /dev/random here is a entropy gatherer in the kernel for the > purpose of generating cryptographically strong random numbers. > -stable doesn't seem to have this, not sure about -current. Linux > does which is where I'm getting the nomenclature from. -current does have a /dev/random > From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 12:46:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12670 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utgard.bga.com (utgard.bga.com [205.238.129.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12665 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from faulkner@localhost) by utgard.bga.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04144; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:46:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605231946.OAA04144@utgard.bga.com> Subject: Re: editors To: frankd@yoda.fdt.net (Frank Seltzer) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:46:33 -0459 (CDT) From: "Boyd R. Faulkner" Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Seltzer" at May 23, 96 08:21:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Frank Seltzer: > On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > > In Chuck's defense, I would say "vi" too, but if you had a choice of an > > editor IN ADDITION TO vi, which would you pick? (remember it must fit on > > the boot floppy :-) I heard one vote for "joe" which is a decent editor, > > but since pico is more popular, and we ARE doing this for newbie's, I > > narrowly lean towards that. I would NOT choose ee, as it has no advantage > > over vi to me, nor would I expect, to a new user. > > > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > > > ---Jake > > > Pico > > -- > Frank > joe, for 200k says it gives you joe, pico+extensions, uemacs+extensions, and wordstar+extensions. You could truly give them a choice. As long as vi is one of them, I am happy. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner "The fates lead him who will; faulkner@asgard.bga.com Him who won't, they drag." http://asgard.bga.com/~faulkner Old Roman Saying -- Source: Joseph Campbell _____________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 13:36:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16786 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16775; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08230; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:30:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605232030.NAA08230@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Can't run Linux static ELF binaries? To: jehamby@hamby1.lightside.net (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:30:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605231312.GAA00518@hamby1.lightside.net> from "Jake Hamby" at May 23, 96 06:12:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As a kludge, may I suggest that files within the /compat/linux > directory be assumed to be Linux/ELF, and files in /compat/svr4 > be assumed SVR4? Looks like the only statically linked programs > are stuff like ldconfig anyway, which you would want to install > in /compat so as not to conflict with FreeBSD's. A "proper" implementation of an ELF ld.so has it mapping into the memory hole above the 4k 0 page but below the actual program load address (this is, I am convinced, why the SVR4 EABI mandates a high load address. In that event, you can't use the ld.so name in order to get the binary type, even on shared images. You are putting off dealing with the inevitable. As to looking for /compat/xxx directory traversal, there is no way iterate a flag down on lookup as a result of lookup; otherwise, you could easily support forks using POSIX namespace escapes. I have some experimental mods for this, but they significantly impact the lookup mechanism in kern/vfs_lookup.c and in ecery one of the FS specific xxx_lookup routines for namei() processing; the biggest problem is the way the vnode locking is handled as a form of non-counting lock, making relookup() necessary in the first place. The changes are *way* above and beyond the FS changes I submitted; they are intended for support of extended attributes, resource forks and alternate directory name spaces (ie: Unicode file name support). They would incidently allow a flag to propagate down following a lookup without needing it to really be a namespace selector; thus when you traversed the point, the flag would be set, the traversal could complete, and the flag would remain set. It would be more correct (and elegant) to attach an ELF segment identifying the binary type by machine to Linux and FreeBSD binaries... or better, to add a system interface ident to the ELF format (yes, this would be a real format change) that can be ignored by systems that don't support it, but which the GNU tools would produce and set a prereserved flag type for Solaris and UnixWare, seperately. Then hope that Sun and SCO adopted the enhancement, but assuming Sun or SCO if nothing was present. Sean has more input on all of this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 13:42:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17200 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17195 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08245; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:34:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605232034.NAA08245@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: p.richards@elsevier.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:34:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: gmarco@masternet.it, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605231317.OAA24711@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from "Paul Richards" at May 23, 96 02:17:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > For beginners, newbie and rookie (as I am) I think the best solution is > > uemacs... > > > > I'm curious, what exactly is a newbie in this context, what sort of > user group are we trying to win over? A person who does not already have training in the editor that they must use to get base level functionality out of their system. So the editor must be one with a clearly identified help command at all times, at a minimum, and, preferrably, menus that get accessed by the help command instead of just an odd "learn these control keys" table. I suspect the editor would have to be "modeless" (unlike vi or ex). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 14:25:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21276 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA21271 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02965; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:24:04 -0700 (PDT) To: adrian@virginia.edu cc: Paul Richards , Michael Smith , FreeBSD current mailing list Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 14:39:31 EDT." Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: <2963.832886643@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Erm... Does ":help" count as "_self documenting_"? It spits out No. :-) Yes, I know about ex's doc commands, but that's as good as buried if you've got nothing telling you to type it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 14:28:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21657 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21623 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11055 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:53 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11601 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:52 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA18954 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:28:09 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605232028.WAA18954@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:28:09 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605230922.LAA14510@allegro.lemis.de> from Greg Lehey at "May 23, 96 11:22:18 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > Isn't there some editor out there that vaguely > resembles Microslop's 'edit'? ee :) (Perhaps extended by F-keys, though this is messy for anything else than the graphics console.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 14:28:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21655 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21576 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11039 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11597 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA18936 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:26:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605232026.WAA18936@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:26:08 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605230932.KAA17769@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> from Paul Richards at "May 23, 96 10:32:50 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Paul Richards wrote: > It becomes the default editor for everyone period, something I don't think > is a good idea at all. We already basically agreed that the install program should give the users a choice for ${EDITOR}. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 14:28:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21766 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21569 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11043 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:48 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11598 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:47 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA18978 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:30:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605232030.WAA18978@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:30:43 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605231230.WAA08768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "May 23, 96 10:00:40 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > There is room on the boot disk for only one editor, actually.. :-( > > Delete it then, and make more space. You don't do any editing until _after_ > you've installed stuff. You should do more installation testing. :) Jordan imported `ee' since he needed an editor for the /etc/exports file in case the user wants to make his box an NFS server. (At least, people must get a chance to exit the editor again, even in case they decide to abandon the idea of an NFS server once being faced with the required exports file.) Yep, well, ok, the system is already installed at this point, so anything in /mnt/usr/bin (or even /mnt/usr/local/bin) might be used. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 14:33:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22562 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22506 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA10970; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:26:59 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11558; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:26:53 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA18312; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:45:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605231845.UAA18312@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.1R vs 050196SNAP To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:45:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605221811.NAA03001@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from Randy Terbush at "May 22, 96 01:03:19 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Randy Terbush wrote: > One of the more interesting things about the -current source tree > is the DEVFS. I don't have a feel for how stable it is in the latest > SNAP, but something I am looking forward to using. Perhaps someone > can comment on it's usefullness/stability? It's still rather green. You might only want to really enable it right now if you're going to test and/or debug it. (That doesn't mean it's particularly _instable_, but it's still some way until it can fully replace /dev.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:08:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25692 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25684 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 199.183.109.242 by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Thu, 23 May 1996 17:08:32 -0600 Message-ID: Date: 23 May 1996 17:08:19 -0500 From: "Richard Wackerbarth" Subject: Re(2): CTM & cvs update To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" , "Wolfram Schneider" Cc: "current@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: Mail*Link PT/Internet 1.6.0 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Schneider writes: > > A full cvs update takes me 1952.43 real 92.37 user 190.84 sys > > This is slow. Can I use the output from ctm_rmail for a faster > > update? E.g.: > > > > $ ctm_rmail [options] > ctm_output_log_file 2>&1 > > $ cvs update `egrep ' > .. (src|ports)/' > > | awk '{print $NF}' | sed 's/,v$//'` Poul-Henning Kamp replies: > If you make an option to ctm_rmail to do it, I'll review and approve even if you write it in COBOL :-) Please don't add more bloat to ctm_rmail. His solution seems fine and in the Unix tradition. As I read his message, he simply wants to know if it would work. -- ...computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1/2 tons. -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:14:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26259 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26253 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04376; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:13:45 -0700 (PDT) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 22:30:43 +0200." <199605232030.WAA18978@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:13:45 -0700 Message-ID: <4374.832889625@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yep, well, ok, the system is already installed at this point, so > anything in /mnt/usr/bin (or even /mnt/usr/local/bin) might be used. And that's what the Options screen lets you set. I set this to /usr/bin/vi first thing. :-) Also, the editor is called in about 3 places now - there's the anon ftp welcome message and a few other things besides /etc/exports that needs editing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:24:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27360 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27355 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous222.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.222]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA28918; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:11:30 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA01774; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:26:58 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:26:58 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605232026.WAA01774@campa.panke.de> To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: /usr/share/skel/dotfiles are overwritten In-Reply-To: <199605230745.JAA24733@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <199605230745.JAA24733@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph P. Kukulies writes: >make world overwrites /usr/share/skel/dotfiles. >Is this the intention? Yes. /usr/share/skel is an *example* directory for dot files, see hier(7). >Or is there a way override >/usr/share/skel by /usr/local/share/skel or something? >I mean, do the shells provide for such an alternate path? No shell use any file from /usr/share/skel. For adduser(8), try option -dotdir /usr/local/share/skel or something. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:30:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27825 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27813 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I52C55U1N400201R@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:29:50 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA27879 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:36:40 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:36:40 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: world build fails (vi tutorials) To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605232236.AAA27879@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Only with me here ? BTW, my world build went from 12.000 s to around 17.000. Can it be that it's because I included the secure stuff now? Anyway last build failed with: groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' ===> share/doc/usd/11.vitut (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/11.vitut/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/edit; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- edittut.ms) | gzip -c > paper.ep_ps.gz groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' ===> share/doc/usd/12.vi (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.in vi.chars) | gzip -c > paper.ep_ps.gz groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.summary) | gzip -c > summary.ep_ps.gz groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.apwh.ms) | gzip -c > viapwh.ep_ps.gz groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' ===> share/doc/usd/13.viref # Build index.so, side-effect of building the paper. sed -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(vi.ref\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(ex.cmd.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(../../install/recover.script\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(ref.so\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(set.opt.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(vi.cmd.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e 's:^\.so index.so$::' /usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/vi.ref | groff -Tep_ps -t -s -me -o1- > /dev/null groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' *** Error code 3 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. 8645.11 real 6438.63 user 1074.63 sys --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:52:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA29749 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29740 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17328; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:50:29 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605232250.PAA17328@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: editors To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: adrian@virginia.edu, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <2963.832886643@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 23, 96 02:24:03 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Erm... Does ":help" count as "_self documenting_"? It spits out > > No. :-) > > Yes, I know about ex's doc commands, but that's as good as buried if > you've got nothing telling you to type it. Well, you could almost do it with vi and :split, but I can't find an easy way make it exit without having to close the first screen with the help commands in it: vi -c "split /the/file/you/really/want" /usr/share/misc/vicommands.txt #vicommands.txt would have help for vi in it. I suppose a: vi -c "help" /the/file/you/really/want/to/edit would work, heck, the output even stays on the bottom of the screen, until you cause a screen scroll to wipe it out :-). Perhaps it is not out of the question to add an option to vi that would put this and a few other things on the bottom of the screen... a small addition to vi would be smaller than any additional editor as far as source code sizes go :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 15:59:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA00488 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00481 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04682; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:58:18 -0700 (PDT) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: adrian@virginia.edu, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 15:50:29 PDT." <199605232250.PAA17328@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:58:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4680.832892298@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps it is not out of the question to add an option to vi that would put > this and a few other things on the bottom of the screen... a small addition > to vi would be smaller than any additional editor as far as source code > sizes go :-) Indeed, or even to hack on `ee' until it's closer to everyone's ideal. I'm not wedded to its current keymap, ya know. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 16:27:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA03251 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03223 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA17471; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:25:37 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605232325.QAA17471@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Re(2): CTM & cvs update To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "May 23, 96 05:08:19 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Wolfram Schneider writes: > > > > A full cvs update takes me 1952.43 real 92.37 user 190.84 sys > > > This is slow. Can I use the output from ctm_rmail for a faster > > > update? E.g.: > > > > > > $ ctm_rmail [options] > ctm_output_log_file 2>&1 > > > $ cvs update `egrep ' > .. (src|ports)/' > > | > awk '{print $NF}' | sed 's/,v$//'` > > Poul-Henning Kamp replies: > > > If you make an option to ctm_rmail to do it, I'll review and approve even if > you write it in COBOL :-) > > Please don't add more bloat to ctm_rmail. His solution seems fine and in the > Unix tradition. > > As I read his message, he simply wants to know if it would work. No, it would not for 3 reasons: a) Addition of directories to the cvs repository would not exist in the checked out tree so the ``cvs update pathname'' would fail. b) Removal of files/directories from the cvs tree cause the files to go into Attic subdirectories, the above would serious fail there (some massaging and adding the -P option to the cvs udpate command could fix this). c) Other problems I haven't though of yet. This is not to say that the desired results could not be obtained, but it is a fair bit more complex than the above 1 line script. I don't run ctm, but here is a better filter to replace the above ``awk '{print $NF}' with (this is written for sup -v >&logfile): /\/Attic\// { next; } /CVSROOT\// { next; } /^SUP Receiving file / { print $NF; } /^SUP Deleted file / { print $NF; } Then a little massaging with sed to rip off the filename components and a pass through sort -u to get down to just the directories you need to update, and finally a script that checks how far down a hierachy it can cd before running a cvs update -P and you have your desired results. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 16:42:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA05593 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05568 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA17517; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:42:25 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605232342.QAA17517@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: world build fails (vi tutorials) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605232236.AAA27879@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at "May 24, 96 00:36:40 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Only with me here ? > BTW, my world build went from 12.000 s to around 17.000. > Can it be that it's because I included the secure stuff now? > > Anyway last build failed with: unsetenv PRINTER; unset PRINTER; make world; > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > ===> share/doc/usd/11.vitut > (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/11.vitut/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/edit; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- edittut.ms) | gzip -c > paper.ep_ps.gz > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > ===> share/doc/usd/12.vi > (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.in vi.chars) | gzip -c > paper.ep_ps.gz > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.summary) | gzip -c > summary.ep_ps.gz > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > (cd /usr/src/share/doc/usd/12.vi/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vitut; groff -Tep_ps -t -ms -o1- vi.apwh.ms) | gzip -c > viapwh.ep_ps.gz > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > ===> share/doc/usd/13.viref > # Build index.so, side-effect of building the paper. > sed -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(vi.ref\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(ex.cmd.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(../../install/recover.script\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(ref.so\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(set.opt.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e\ 's:\(\.so[\ \ ][\ \ ]*\)\(vi.cmd.roff\)$:\1/usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/\2:' -e 's:^\.so index.so$::' /usr/src/share/doc/usd/13.viref/../../../../usr.bin/vi/USD.doc/vi.ref/vi.ref | groff -Tep_ps -t -s -me -o1- > /dev/null > groff: can't find `DESC' file > groff:fatal error: invalid device `ep_ps' > *** Error code 3 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > 8645.11 real 6438.63 user 1074.63 sys > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 17:36:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA10252 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10243 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu (riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.164]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id RAA19039 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14567; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:35:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199605240035.RAA14567@riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Paul Richards cc: nawaz921@cs.uidaho.edu (faried nawaz), chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 10:32:50 BST." <199605230932.KAA17769@cadair.elsevier.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:35:57 -0700 From: Doug White Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -------- Donning asbestos suit...:-) > > Incidentally, I made the suggestion on -chat that the EDITOR setting > become an installation option. I second this. A fellow FreeBSD hacker and I just about fainted when we got this wacky thing when we typed 'vipw' after getting a SNAP machine up. I think I still get it - at least I know how to fix it! Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 17:53:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12231 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12221 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA10609; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:00:53 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605240030.KAA10609@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: adrian@virginia.edu Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:00:53 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" at May 23, 96 02:39:31 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adrian T. Filipi-Martin stands accused of saying: > > Erm... Does ":help" count as "_self documenting_"? It spits out No. What makes you think that a user is going to type ":help" as they're madly pounding at the keyboard and screaming for the nurse? > Adrian -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 19:16:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA23206 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net (relay-4.mail.demon.net [158.152.1.108]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23179 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id aq26267; 24 May 96 2:08 GMT Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa04683; 24 May 96 0:48 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA12097; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:15:05 GMT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:15:05 GMT Message-Id: <199605240015.AAA12097@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk CC: current@freebsd.org, toor@dyson.iquest.net In-reply-to: <199605222249.WAA11686@jraynard.demon.co.uk> (message from James Raynard on Wed, 22 May 1996 22:49:03 GMT) Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> James Raynard writes: > According to top, I always have over 20MB of swap available when this > happens and about 9 or 10M of RAM, and everything else appears to be Silly me, I was looking at the wrong column in top. The 9 or 10M of RAM is the amount of *active* RAM, not free. The amount of free RAM on my system is typically about 700-800k, but sometimes goes down to 72k. I've upgraded to the version of Emacs in the -release ports, but still have problems with Emacs dying if I try and start it just after the system's been swapping heavily. I'm currently re-compiling it again with less optimisation, to see if that helps. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland jraynard@dial.pipex.com james@jraynard.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 20:51:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06606 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06573 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA12134; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:33:18 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605240403.NAA12134@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:33:17 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605232030.WAA18978@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 23, 96 10:30:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > Yep, well, ok, the system is already installed at this point, so > anything in /mnt/usr/bin (or even /mnt/usr/local/bin) might be used. My point exactly. The whole trend at the moment is towards doing _less_ in sysinstall, not more. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 22:25:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA22050 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA22039 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01026; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:25:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:25:01 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605230328.UAA06238@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > So in other words, if there is room on the boot disk for two editors, one > > of which being vi, what do you vote for as the second editor? > > ex. 8-) cat, head, and tail. Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection right off the bat! :-P -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 23:52:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03443 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03364 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA25279 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:40 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA17505 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA21714 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:30:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605240630.IAA21714@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /usr/share/skel/dotfiles are overwritten To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:30:50 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605232026.WAA01774@campa.panke.de> from Wolfram Schneider at "May 23, 96 10:26:58 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Wolfram Schneider wrote: > >Or is there a way override > >/usr/share/skel by /usr/local/share/skel or something? > >I mean, do the shells provide for such an alternate path? > > No shell use any file from /usr/share/skel. For adduser(8), try > option -dotdir /usr/local/share/skel or something. I suggest adduser(8) should pick /etc/skel/ in case this directory exists, and then fall back to /usr/share/skel/. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu May 23 23:52:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03507 for current-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03414 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA25283 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA17506 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA21790 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:34:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605240634.IAA21790@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:34:54 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <4374.832889625@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 23, 96 03:13:45 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > And that's what the Options screen lets you set. I set this to > /usr/bin/vi first thing. :-) Don't use hard-coded path's again. /stand/ee was, ähm, a bit messy (in particular since /usr/bin/ee was also available). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 00:21:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05091 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beeblebrox.cc.jyu.fi (beeblebrox.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.41.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA05086 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kallio@localhost) by beeblebrox.cc.jyu.fi (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA15163; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:20:54 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:20:54 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , adrian@virginia.edu, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <4680.832892298@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Perhaps it is not out of the question to add an option to vi that would put > > this and a few other things on the bottom of the screen... a small addition > > to vi would be smaller than any additional editor as far as source code > > sizes go :-) > > Indeed, or even to hack on `ee' until it's closer to everyone's ideal. > I'm not wedded to its current keymap, ya know. :-) ee could be OK. I think most "hackers" use emacs, and novices goto emacs sooner or later. Help of ee is not good. I had problems how to exit from it! The main tasks you must be able to do are: Function pico emacs ee vi exit+save C-x C-x C-c C-c exit ZZ * delete line C-k C-k C-y dd * delete characters Del Del Del (?) x * add characters a a a a ** add lines a a a a ** a = just type it in (and use enter for new line - complicated for some novices) * = you must be in command mode ** = you must be in input mode pico: all main commands all time on the screen emacs: read the manual or help ee: most main commands on the screen (exept exit+save) vi: read the manual or help Many pico commands same as in emacs, ee commands from TurboPascal/WordStar ? Seppo From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 01:17:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08704 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from masternet.it (root@masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08682 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmarco.eclipse.org (ts1port3d.masternet.it [194.184.65.25]) by masternet.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11037 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:15:13 +0200 Message-ID: <31A5E11B.41C67EA6@masternet.it> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:17:31 +0000 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Intel 430HX & A2940uw troubles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I changed my mainboard from the oldie Asus P/I-P55TP4XE with a new Asus P/I-P55T2P4 with the new Intel 430HX I have no changed anything other in my hardware configuration, or in software (except applying the few last ctm #1816) Now I am not able to make FreeBSD find every devices attach to A2940uw after the 2 HD as you can see from the logs... It seems the A2940uw not work correctly anymore : May 24 15:34:20 gmarco /kernel: ahc0: ahc_intr - referenced scb not valid during scsiint 0x8a scb(0) Any idea ? Who is the guilty, mainboard, A2940uw, FreeBsd or me... ? And more important ... any solutions ? :-) As usual, thanks for your attention... Asus P/I-P55T2P4 : -------------------------------------------------------- May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Fri May 24 12:19:03 1996 May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: gmarco@gmarco.eclipse.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/GMARCO May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i586 clock: 166181521 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193101 Hz May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: CLK_USE_I586_CALIBRATION not specified - using old calibration method May 24 15:34:11 gmarco /kernel: i586 clock: 0 Hz May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: CPU: Pentium (166.18-MHz 586-class CPU) May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: avail memory = 31219712 (30488K bytes) May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: chip0 rev 1 on pci0:0 May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: chip1 rev 0 on pci0:7:0 May 24 15:34:12 gmarco /kernel: pci0:7:1: Intel Corporation, device=0x7010, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: vga0 rev 1 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "FUJITSU M2932S-512 0110" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 2076MB (4253391 512 byte sectors) May 24 15:34:13 gmarco /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 3421 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 138 sectors/track May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: ahc0:A:1: refuses WIDE negotiation. Using 8bit transfers May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:1:0): "FUJITSU M1606S-512 6236" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 1041MB (2131992 512 byte sectors) May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 3457 cyls, 6 heads, and an average 102 sectors/track May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 24 15:34:14 gmarco /kernel: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: ed0: address 00:c0:6c:69:84:54, type NE2000 (16 bit) May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 24 15:34:15 gmarco /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 24 15:34:16 gmarco /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 24 15:34:16 gmarco /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 24 15:34:16 gmarco /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 24 15:34:16 gmarco /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 24 15:34:16 gmarco /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: wd2: 1547MB (3170160 sectors), 3145 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa May 24 15:34:17 gmarco /kernel: sb0: May 24 15:34:18 gmarco /kernel: opl0 at 0x388 on isa May 24 15:34:18 gmarco /kernel: opl0: May 24 15:34:18 gmarco /kernel: sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa May 24 15:34:19 gmarco /kernel: May 24 15:34:19 gmarco /kernel: sbxvi0 at 0x0 drq 5 on isa May 24 15:34:19 gmarco /kernel: sbxvo0: May 24 15:34:19 gmarco /kernel: joy0 at 0x201 on isa May 24 15:34:20 gmarco /kernel: joy0: joystick May 24 15:34:20 gmarco /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 24 15:34:20 gmarco /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 24 15:34:20 gmarco /kernel: ahc0: ahc_intr - referenced scb not valid during scsiint 0x8a scb(0) Asus P/I-P55TP4XE : ---------------------------------------------- May 22 12:42:20 gmarco /kernel: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed May 22 12:11:56 1996 May 22 12:42:20 gmarco /kernel: gmarco@gmarco.eclipse.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/GMARCO May 22 12:42:20 gmarco /kernel: Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... i586 clock: 165774948 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193079 Hz May 22 12:42:20 gmarco /kernel: CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency May 22 12:42:20 gmarco /kernel: CLK_USE_I586_CALIBRATION not specified - using old calibration method May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: i586 clock: 0 Hz May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: CPU: Pentium (165.78-MHz 586-class CPU) May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52c Stepping=12 May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: avail memory = 31219712 (30488K bytes) May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 May 22 12:42:21 gmarco /kernel: chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7:0 May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: piix0 rev 2 on pci0:7:1 May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: vga0 rev 1 int a irq 12 on pci0:10 May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "FUJITSU M2932S-512 0110" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 May 22 12:42:22 gmarco /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 2076MB (4253391 512 byte sectors) May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 3421 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 138 sectors/track May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:1:0): "FUJITSU M1606S-512 6236" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 1041MB (2131992 512 byte sectors) May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: sd1(ahc0:1:0): with 3457 cyls, 6 heads, and an average 102 sectors/track May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:3:0): "SONY CD-R CDU920S 2.0b" type 4 removable SCSI 2 May 22 12:42:23 gmarco /kernel: uk0(ahc0:3:0): Unknown May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:4:0): "SONY CD-ROM CDU-76S 1.1a" type 5 removable SCSI 2 May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: cd0(ahc0:4:0): CD-ROM cd present [174734 x 2048 byte records] May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: (ahc0:5:0): "TANDBERG TDC 3500 =01:" type 1 removable SCSI 2 May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: st0(ahc0:5:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, 512-byte blocks, write-enabled May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 22 12:42:24 gmarco /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 22 12:42:25 gmarco /kernel: ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa May 22 12:42:25 gmarco /kernel: ed0: address 00:c0:6c:69:84:54, type NE2000 (16 bit) May 22 12:42:25 gmarco /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 22 12:42:25 gmarco /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 22 12:42:26 gmarco /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 22 12:42:26 gmarco /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 22 12:42:26 gmarco /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 22 12:42:26 gmarco /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 22 12:42:26 gmarco /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: wd2: 1547MB (3170160 sectors), 3145 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: fdc0: NEC 72065B May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: sb0: May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: opl0 at 0x388 on isa May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: opl0: May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: May 22 12:42:27 gmarco /kernel: sbxvi0 at 0x0 drq 5 on isa May 22 12:42:28 gmarco /kernel: sbxvo0: May 22 12:42:29 gmarco /kernel: joy0 at 0x201 on isa May 22 12:42:29 gmarco /kernel: joy0: joystick May 22 12:42:29 gmarco /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 22 12:42:29 gmarco /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 22 12:42:29 gmarco /kernel: changing root device to sd1a --------------------------------------------------------------- -- Regards... +-------------------------------------+--------------------+ | Internet: gmarco@masternet.it | ,,, | | Internet: gmarco@nettuno.it | (o o) | | BIX : ggiovannelli@bix.com | ---oo0-(_)-0oo--- | | Fidonet : 2:332/113.0@fidonet | __ | | Amiganet: 39:102/507@amiganet | __/// Gianmarco | | http://www.masternet.it/dsc/gmarco | \XX/ | +-------------------------------------+--------------------+ From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 01:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA10761 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA10753 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id SAA02614 Fri, 24 May 1996 18:38:53 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605240838.SAA02614@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: editors To: kallio@beeblebrox.cc.jyu.fi (Seppo Kallio) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:38:52 +1000 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Seppo Kallio" at May 24, 96 10:20:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Seppo Kallio writes: > The main tasks you must be able to do are: .. [ nice comparison of editors ] Personally, I "grew up" with wordstar on CP/M 1.4 so my preference is for joe aka jstar aka jmacs aka .. which personality do you want today ? :-) It has "online" help including how to exit and even spell-check if ispell is installed .. michael From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 02:04:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA12552 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 02:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA12545 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 02:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04706; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 01:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: James Raynard cc: fcurrent@jraynard.demon.co.uk, current@freebsd.org, toor@dyson.iquest.net Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? In-Reply-To: <199605240015.AAA12097@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, James Raynard wrote: > I've upgraded to the version of Emacs in the -release ports, but still > have problems with Emacs dying if I try and start it just after the > system's been swapping heavily. I'm currently re-compiling it again > with less optimisation, to see if that helps. > James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland > jraynard@dial.pipex.com Look in your logfiles to see if the kernel reported a "swap_pager: out of swap space." If this is the case, you need to increase your swap size. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 06:45:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA04356 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA04344 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (sendmail) with UUCP id XAA04207 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:45:43 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mark@localhost) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA08621; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:46:08 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:46:08 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199605241246.WAA08621@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 References: <199605220552.PAA11944@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <5306.832756715@time.cdrom.com> From: mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au (Mark Hannon) Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? X-Original-Newsgroups: freebsd.current In-Reply-To: <5306.832756715@time.cdrom.com> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <5306.832756715@time.cdrom.com>, jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes: >> It is used to set the keyboard to a known state. E.g., it blows away the >> BIOS defaults for the keyboard repeat and delay rates (RAD), and it turns > >Can we kill the error message then since so many keyboards seem to >exhibit this problem? :-) > > Jordan Unfortunately since this error message started showing up my keyboard also stopped working! Running -stable a few days old. /mark -- +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Mark Hannon,| FreeBSD - Free Unix for your PC| mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au| | Melbourne, | PGP key available by fingering | epamha@epa.ericsson.se | | Australia | seeware@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au | | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 08:10:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16108 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (dns1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.44.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16092 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon (platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.96.1]) by platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA21437 ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:12:24 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:12:23 +0100 (BST) From: " Stephen P. Butler" X-Sender: stephen@platon To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: editors. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > I appreciate the defense, Jake, but it's not on the mark. I hate pico, I > would never use it, but neither you, I, nor Chris qualify as new users. > I am talking about a new user's editor, period. Something to replace ee, > NOT to replace any tool that any of us use now. > > I am talking about lowering the fear level for approaching FreeBSD. I've used joe and pico. joe is good where people have used Wordstar before, but I think pico just pips joe to the post perhaps. To be honest, both are really easy to use for simple editing and maybe the choice ought to be made on size of binary. Regards, Stephen. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- |Stephen Butler |stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk | |Computer Science Undergraduate. | | |Royal Holloway, University of London.| | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 09:22:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26816 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26809 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07673; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT) To: Seppo Kallio cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , adrian@virginia.edu, p.richards@elsevier.co.uk, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: editors In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 10:20:54 +0300." Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:19:36 -0700 Message-ID: <7671.832954776@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ee could be OK. I think most "hackers" use emacs, and novices goto emacs > sooner or later. > > Help of ee is not good. I had problems how to exit from it! So change the keybindings to be more like pico! Then we've have this whole silly debate finished. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 09:45:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00650 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (dns1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.44.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00633 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from platon (platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.96.1]) by platon.cs.rhbnc.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA29755 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:46:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:46:32 +0100 (BST) From: " Stephen P. Butler" X-Sender: stephen@platon To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: editors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, John Fieber wrote: > cat, head, and tail. > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > right off the bat! Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) On a slightly more serious note, I vote for the set $EDITOR facility in sysinstall, with perhaps pico as the default selection if you don't choose anything different. Regards, Stephen. ---------------------------------------------------------------- |Stephen Butler |stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk | |Computer Science Undergraduate. | | |Royal Holloway, University of London.| | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 10:47:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09823 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09818 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08032; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:46:39 -0700 (PDT) To: mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au (Mark Hannon) cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 22:46:08 +1000." <199605241246.WAA08621@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:46:39 -0700 Message-ID: <8030.832959999@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Unfortunately since this error message started showing up my keyboard > also stopped working! Running -stable a few days old. I see! Uh, so.. Bruce, you have any plans for this since you didn't like my (stupid) suggestion of removing the error message? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 12:53:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA22395 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22360 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA21752; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:52:32 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA24534; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:52:32 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23399; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:50:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605241950.VAA23399@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? To: mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au (Mark Hannon) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:50:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605241246.WAA08621@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> from Mark Hannon at "May 24, 96 10:46:08 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Hannon wrote: > >Can we kill the error message then since so many keyboards seem to > >exhibit this problem? :-) > Unfortunately since this error message started showing up my keyboard > also stopped working! Running -stable a few days old. Bump the number of retries. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 13:01:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA22841 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22823 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01650; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:00:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605242000.NAA01650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk (Stephen P. Butler) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:00:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Stephen P. Butler" at May 24, 96 05:46:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > > right off the bat! > > Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk > sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able > to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) Luxury! Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only my bare hands and "dd"... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 13:21:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23822 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23801 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA22321 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:21 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA24852 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:20 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA23635 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:07:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605242007.WAA23635@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:07:26 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Seppo Kallio at "May 24, 96 10:20:54 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Seppo Kallio wrote: > Help of ee is not good. I had problems how to exit from it! > > The main tasks you must be able to do are: > > Function pico emacs ee vi > > exit+save C-x C-x C-c C-c exit ZZ * ESC Enter ...to be exact. ;) (But this only shows that there's really a problem with the online help.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 13:30:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24512 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24473 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id aa29690; 24 May 96 20:22 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa02851; 24 May 96 19:34 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA14111; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:45:20 GMT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:45:20 GMT Message-Id: <199605241045.KAA14111@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: grog@lemis.de CC: toor@dyson.iquest.net, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605231541.RAA15274@allegro.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: panic: freeing held page Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Another possibly related thing: I had a number of cases where > processes either spontaneously SIGSEGV, or they disappear without > signalling their parent (typically you hit ^C and nothing happens, but > the process is gone). I can probably drag up some .cores for you, but > I don't know if that'll be much good. I'm getting these as well, typically when I start emacs just after the system has been swapping. They seem to have gone away since I rebuilt emacs with '-g -O' instead of '-O2 -fno-strength-reduce'. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland jraynard@dial.pipex.com james@jraynard.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 14:20:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA29254 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29249 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08703 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:20:11 -0700 (PDT) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: NFS over udp broken? Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: <8701.832972811@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try this: Given: machine-a:/some/cvs/repository Do: machine-b# mount_nfs -U machine-a:/some/cvs/repository /repo machine-b# setenv CVSROOT /repo machine-b# cvs co src You'll get about 50 files into the checkout operation before machine-b panics. Now do: machine-b# mount_nfs -T machine-a:/some/cvs/repository /repo machine-b# setenv CVSROOT /repo machine-b# cvs co src Using NFS over tcp instead of udp, the entire checkout operation succeeds. Anyway, just some food for thought and perhaps known-problem #4381 in -current's NFS. Can anyone else reproduce? This feature, at least, sort of used to work. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 14:33:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA00311 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00303 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.207]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27438 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09924; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:33:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD current Subject: libc_r Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anybody know the status of the libc_r threads library? Does it work? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 15:51:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15464 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (h196-7-192-129.iafrica.com [196.7.192.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15393 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA02601; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:50:13 +0200 From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199605242250.AAA02601@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: editors To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 00:50:11 +0200 (SAT) Cc: stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199605242000.NAA01650@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 24, 96 01:00:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > > > right off the bat! > > > > Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk > > sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able > > to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) > > Luxury! > > Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only > my bare hands and "dd"... Hmm. Half the trouble with the whole 'editors' thread is that people simply aren't digging deep enough to recall some of the really hairy, insane, and plain disgusting text editors around. If is all very well for some to dismiss 'vi' as an abomination, but.... Anyone with a VMS background remember TECO? Sample TECO command sequence: [1 J ^P $ L $ $ J <.-Z; .,(S,$ -D .)FX1 @F^B $K :L I $ G1 L>$$ The really neat thing about TECO is that pretty much any arbitrary ASCII string is a TECO program that actually does something. So if you get bored _editing_ your text, you can always relieve the monotony by _running_ it instead. (Try doing that in MS-Word....) Start 'em off with TECO. Having mastered that, they'll be saying, "Gee, I didn't know UNIX itself would be so easy...." -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 16:54:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA20437 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (root@sunrise.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20432 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA24589; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:57:56 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:57:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199605242357.QAA24589@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: current@freebsd.org, ccd@stampede.cs.berkeley.edu In-reply-to: <199605211949.FAA22504@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Wed, 22 May 1996 05:49:23 +1000) Subject: Re: P6 memory copy speed From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * >http://stampede.cs.berkeley.edu/~asami/Td/bcopy.html * * Please update it with these changes. Thanks, updated. You can get to the new tarfile from the same link. * I figured out why unrolling helps so much. You may remember that I said : * It does help for reading, but this doesn't have much to do with floating * point - prefetching a few K using integer registers works just as well. * I implemented this. Thanks. * Other changes: * - removed fsave/frstor. These aren't necessary in user mode and require * additional complications in kernel mode. Now the FP version is competitive * for all sizes and much better for len >= size or 2*size, provided the data * (src or dst) isn't cached (fully cached case: integer speed 400MB/s, FP * speed 140MB/s :-(). ;) * - avoided fxch's. These didn't cost anything but they made the code * larger. Ok. * *** unroll.c~ Tue May 7 20:12:21 1996 * --- unroll.c Wed May 22 04:44:08 1996 This change has been applied. I also cleaned up the C program for testing (why was that program soooooooo long to do something so simple? ;). You are right, now the FP unroll-64 version is just as fast as much larger unroll sizes. Given that, this is the updated patch to /sys/i386/i386/support.s and trap.c: === Index: support.s =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/i386/support.s,v retrieving revision 1.35 diff -u -r1.35 support.s --- 1.35 1996/05/03 21:01:00 +++ support.s 1996/05/24 22:06:19 @@ -453,6 +453,16 @@ /* bcopy(%esi, %edi, %ebx) */ 3: movl %ebx,%ecx +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + cmpl $128,%ecx + jbe slow_copyout + + call fastmove + jmp done_copyout + + ALIGN_TEXT +slow_copyout: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ shrl $2,%ecx cld rep @@ -500,6 +510,16 @@ cmpl $VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS,%edx ja copyin_fault +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + cmpl $128,%ecx + jbe slow_copyin + + call fastmove + jmp done_copyin + + ALIGN_TEXT +slow_copyin: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ movb %cl,%al shrl $2,%ecx /* copy longword-wise */ cld @@ -510,6 +530,10 @@ rep movsb +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + ALIGN_TEXT +done_copyin: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ popl %edi popl %esi xorl %eax,%eax @@ -525,6 +549,206 @@ movl $0,PCB_ONFAULT(%edx) movl $EFAULT,%eax ret + +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY +/* fastmove(src, dst, len) + src in %esi + dst in %edi + len in %ecx + uses %eax and %edx for tmp. storage + */ +/* +LC0: + .ascii "npxproc == curproc\0" +LC1: + .ascii "support.s" + */ + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove: + cmpl $63,%ecx + jbe fastmove_tail + + testl $7,%esi /* check if src addr is multiple of 8 */ + jnz fastmove_tail + + testl $7,%edi /* check if dst addr is multiple of 8 */ + jnz fastmove_tail + + pushl %ebp + movl %esp,%ebp + subl $176,%esp + +/* if (intr_nesting_level > 0) */ + cmpb $0,_intr_nesting_level + je L6 +/* save reentrantly */ + movl %cr0,%edx + clts + fnsave -176(%ebp) + jmp L7 + +/* else { */ + ALIGN_TEXT +L6: +/* if (npxproc != NULL) { */ + cmpl $0,_npxproc + je L8 +/* assert(npxproc == curproc); */ +/* movl _npxproc,%eax + cmpl %eax,_curproc + je L6b + pushl LC0 + pushl $599 + pushl LC1 + call ___assert + addl $12,%esp +L6b: */ +/* fnsave(&curpcb->pcb_savefpu); */ + movl _curpcb,%eax + fnsave 112(%eax) +/* npxproc = NULL; */ + movl $0,_npxproc +/* } */ +L8: +/* now we own the FPU. */ + +/* + * The process' FP state is saved in the pcb, but if we get + * switched, the cpu_switch() will store our FP state in the + * pcb. It should be possible to avoid all the copying for + * this, e.g., by setting a flag to tell cpu_switch() to + * save the state somewhere else. + */ +/* tmp = curpcb->pcb_savefpu; */ + pushl %edi + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + leal -176(%ebp),%edi + movl _curpcb,%esi + addl $112,%esi + cld + movl $44,%ecx + rep + movsl + popl %ecx + popl %esi + popl %edi +/* stop_emulating(); */ + clts +/* npxproc = curproc; */ + movl _curproc,%eax + movl %eax,_npxproc +/* } */ +L7: +4: + pushl %ecx + cmpl $1792,%ecx + jbe 2f + movl $1792,%ecx +2: + subl %ecx,0(%esp) + cmpl $256,%ecx + jb 5f + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + .align 4,0x90 +3: + movl 0(%esi),%eax + movl 32(%esi),%eax + movl 64(%esi),%eax + movl 96(%esi),%eax + movl 128(%esi),%eax + movl 160(%esi),%eax + movl 192(%esi),%eax + movl 224(%esi),%eax + addl $256,%esi + subl $256,%ecx + cmpl $256,%ecx + jae 3b + popl %ecx + popl %esi +5: + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove_loop: + fildq 0(%esi) + fildq 8(%esi) + fildq 16(%esi) + fildq 24(%esi) + fildq 32(%esi) + fildq 40(%esi) + fildq 48(%esi) + fildq 56(%esi) + fistpq 56(%edi) + fistpq 48(%edi) + fistpq 40(%edi) + fistpq 32(%edi) + fistpq 24(%edi) + fistpq 16(%edi) + fistpq 8(%edi) + fistpq 0(%edi) + addl $-64,%ecx + addl $64,%esi + addl $64,%edi + cmpl $63,%ecx + ja fastmove_loop + popl %eax + addl %eax,%ecx + cmpl $64,%ecx + jae 4b + +/* if (intr_nesting_level > 0) */ + + cmpb $0,_intr_nesting_level + je L9 + +/* Restore reentrantly. */ + frstor -176(%ebp) + movl %edx,%cr0 + jmp L10 + +/* else { */ + ALIGN_TEXT +L9: +/* curpcb->pcb_savefpu = tmp; */ + pushl %edi + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + movl _curpcb,%edi + addl $112,%edi + leal -176(%ebp),%esi + cld + movl $44,%ecx + rep + movsl + popl %ecx + popl %esi + popl %edi + +/* start_emulating(); */ + smsw %ax + orb $8,%al + lmsw %ax +/* npxproc = NULL; */ + movl $0,_npxproc +/* } */ +L10: + movl %ebp,%esp + popl %ebp + + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove_tail: + movb %cl,%al + shrl $2,%ecx /* copy longword-wise */ + cld + rep + movsl + movb %al,%cl + andb $3,%cl /* copy remaining bytes */ + rep + movsb + + ret +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ /* * fu{byte,sword,word} : fetch a byte (sword, word) from user memory Index: trap.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c,v retrieving revision 1.75 diff -u -r1.75 trap.c --- 1.75 1996/03/28 05:40:57 +++ trap.c 1996/05/24 20:32:12 @@ -319,6 +319,14 @@ (void) trap_pfault(&frame, FALSE); return; + case T_DNA: +#if NNPX > 0 + /* if a transparent fault (due to context switch "late") */ + if (npxdna()) + return; +#endif /* NNPX > 0 */ + break; + case T_PROTFLT: /* general protection fault */ case T_SEGNPFLT: /* segment not present fault */ /* === I stuck it in our kernel, and the "read-lseek" loop test showed it's just as fast as the old unroll-256 version. * This is for some FP tests on an ASUS P133. I've never seen >= 80MB/s * except when there were bugs in the tests. size = 1024 is worse than That's probably because we have EDO memory. EDO doesn't seem to make much difference in real life but for a benchmark that pushes the memory (and memory only) to the limit, it really shines. ;> Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 17:11:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21477 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Kryten.nina.com (dyn020-gnv.51.fdt.net [205.229.51.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21467 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from frankd@localhost) by Kryten.nina.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA05914; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 20:08:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Seltzer X-Sender: frankd@Kryten.nina.com To: Terry Lambert cc: "Stephen P. Butler" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: <199605242000.NAA01650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > > > right off the bat! > > > > Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk > > sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able > > to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) > > Luxury! > > Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only > my bare hands and "dd"... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > And walked 5 miles to school, uphill both ways :-) -- Frank From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 18:06:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA24829 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24823 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA19308; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:06:10 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199605250106.SAA19308@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: editors To: rnordier@iafrica.com (Robert Nordier) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199605242250.AAA02601@eac.iafrica.com> from Robert Nordier at "May 25, 96 00:50:11 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > > Hmm. Half the trouble with the whole 'editors' thread is that > people simply aren't digging deep enough to recall some of the > really hairy, insane, and plain disgusting text editors around. > > If is all very well for some to dismiss 'vi' as an abomination, > but.... > > Anyone with a VMS background remember TECO? TECO predates VMS and the VAX by a Decade or so, try ``Anyone with a DEC PDP-8 OS/8 background remeber TECO?'', circa 1968. And yes, TECO was the first editor I ever learned... and remeber this was in the days of the ASR33 and Tektronics 4002 DVST terminals. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 18:08:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA25085 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25080 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ae13948; 25 May 96 1:32 +0100 Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa14014; 25 May 96 1:26 +0100 Received: (from fcurrent@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA16934; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:35:28 GMT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:35:28 GMT Message-Id: <199605242235.WAA16934@jraynard.demon.co.uk> From: James Raynard To: coredump@nervosa.com CC: current@freebsd.org, toor@dyson.iquest.net In-reply-to: (coredump@nervosa.com) Subject: Re: Possible problem with new VM code? Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Look in your logfiles to see if the kernel reported a "swap_pager: out of > swap space." If this is the case, you need to increase your swap size. Nope, that's not the problem. Every now and again something dies with a SIGBUS or a SIGSEGV, even if I have 30 or 40M of swap free. Sorry if I didn't make that very clear. -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland jraynard@dial.pipex.com james@jraynard.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 18:24:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA25967 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA25962 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA19046; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:09:05 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605250139.LAA19046@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: editors To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:09:04 +0930 (CST) Cc: stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605242000.NAA01650@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 24, 96 01:00:24 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > > > right off the bat! > > > > Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk > > sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able > > to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) > > Luxury! > > Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only > my bare hands and "dd"... Yeah, and? That's _how_ Ultrix is installed. Just try remembering which Dectape the file you want is on (or how to rewind a TK50 before you've got 'mt' off it 8) > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 19:10:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28529 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28522 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02441; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:08:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605250208.TAA02441@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: editors To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:08:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605250139.LAA19046@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 25, 96 11:09:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Luxury! > > > > Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only > > my bare hands and "dd"... > > Yeah, and? That's _how_ Ultrix is installed. Just try remembering which > Dectape the file you want is on (or how to rewind a TK50 before you've got > 'mt' off it 8) That's not how it's installed if your problem is that the disk you have is not in the default /etc/disktab. Then it's not installed unless you hack the install shell script on the ramdisk. Which I did, using dd as my editor. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 19:17:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28987 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (h196-7-192-132.iafrica.com [196.7.192.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28981 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA03712; Sat, 25 May 1996 04:16:03 +0200 From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199605250216.EAA03712@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: editors To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 04:16:01 +0200 (SAT) Cc: rnordier@iafrica.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, stephen@dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk, terry@lambert.org In-Reply-To: <199605250106.SAA19308@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at May 24, 96 06:06:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > ... > > > > Hmm. Half the trouble with the whole 'editors' thread is that > > people simply aren't digging deep enough to recall some of the > > really hairy, insane, and plain disgusting text editors around. > > > > If is all very well for some to dismiss 'vi' as an abomination, > > but.... > > > > Anyone with a VMS background remember TECO? > > TECO predates VMS and the VAX by a Decade or so, try ``Anyone with a > DEC PDP-8 OS/8 background remeber TECO?'', circa 1968. And yes, TECO > was the first editor I ever learned... and remeber this was in the > days of the ASR33 and Tektronics 4002 DVST terminals. True, but we're still not going back far enough. :) Dan Murphy wrote TECO - in the days when it was still (paper) _Tape_ Editor and Corrector - originally for the PDP-1. This was even in the largely pre-terminal, pre-ASCII days. The first TECO used a 6-bit character set called FIO-DEC; and ASCII came along with a port to the PDP-6. Good to hear from a genuine TECO user. I guess Emacs has quite an ancestry. -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 21:50:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06737 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06732 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA03351 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:49:14 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199605250449.OAA03351@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: sys compile problem after upgrade from -stable To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:49:14 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have just upgraded from -stable to -current by supimg the -currnet sources and doing a make world. That went through to completion however when I went to compile a fresh kernel so ps etc. would work again I got the following errors:- cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI386_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI586_CPU -DEXT2FS -DSBC_IRQ=9 -DNETATALK -DLLC -DCCITT -DGATEWAY -DPPP -DCOMPAT_43 -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL ../../net/if_ethersubr.c ../../net/if_ethersubr.c: In function `ether_input': ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: sizeof applied to an incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: warning: unsigned value >= 0 is always 1 ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: sizeof applied to an incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: sizeof applied to an incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: sizeof applied to an incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:543: sizeof applied to an incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:546: warning: implicit declaration of function `sdl_sethdrif' ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:550: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:555: `llcintrq' undeclared (first use this function) ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:555: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:555: for each function it appears in.) ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:382: warning: `inq' might be used uninitialized in this function *** Error code 1 Stop. I am using the same config file as I used in -stable with the addition of the EXT2FS option which is the reason for the switch to -current. Any suggestions? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 21:55:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA06955 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from melb.werple.net.au (melb.werple.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06947 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by melb.werple.net.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with UUCP id OAA25529 for mira!freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-current; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:42:31 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199605250442.OAA25529@melb.werple.net.au> Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA07949; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:43:09 +1000 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: libc_r To: Glue.umd.edu!chuckr@melb.werple.net.au (Chuck Robey) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:43:08 +1000 (EST) Cc: freefall.freebsd.org!freebsd-current@melb.werple.net.au In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 24, 96 05:33:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anybody know the status of the libc_r threads library? Does it work? There have been changes to files fork.S, pipe.S, sigpending.S and sigreturn.S which won't compile with _THREAD_SAFE because they have too many arguments for the macro PSYSCALL (which takes care of the #ifdef for _THREAD_SAFE). I don't know why these changes were made. The file uthread_select.c needs a fix to work with the X libraries. Other than that it should work. I say *should* because I'm running 2.1.0R on our system at the moment (The slightest mention of VM changes ruins my day 8-). Our application programs link against the code from the libc_r directory, but it is built using our code management system, not make so I can't even claim that libc_r will build as it is now. FWIW, our factory monitoring and control software is fully functional using the (non-threaded) X libraries on the 2.1.0R CD and the libc_r code. The source for this contains over a million lines of documented code built into 62 shared libraries. Under FreeBSD on a 486/50 with 16Mb of memory running X, the system can still execute PLC code faster than the fastest Allen Bradley PLC. Regards, -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-current Fri May 24 23:32:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA12775 for current-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kanto.cc.jyu.fi (root@kanto.cc.jyu.fi [130.234.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12765 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kallio@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kanto.cc.jyu.fi (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA22762; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:29:40 +0300 (EET DST) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:29:40 +0300 (EET DST) From: Seppo Kallio To: Frank Seltzer cc: Terry Lambert , "Stephen P. Butler" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: editors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Frank Seltzer wrote: > On Fri, 24 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Gotta get those new user up to speed on pipes and redirection > > > > right off the bat! > > > > > > Huh! Mere child's tools. I vote we ought to give them just a disk > > > sector editor. After all, any self-respecting hacker ought to be able > > > to edit files by writing the disk format directly! :-) > > > > Luxury! > > > > Why, I remember installing Ultrix on a non-DEC drive using only > > my bare hands and "dd"... > > Terry Lambert > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > > And walked 5 miles to school, uphill both ways :-) > > Frank You forgot the "Bare foot in 1 meter deep snow with -20 degrees Celsius." Seppo From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 03:39:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA00353 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA00348 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA13162; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:29:54 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:29:54 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605251029.UAA13162@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Unfortunately since this error message started showing up my keyboard >> also stopped working! Running -stable a few days old. >I see! >Uh, so.. Bruce, you have any plans for this since you didn't like >my (stupid) suggestion of removing the error message? :-) First, don't read KB_DATA in the initial loop without checking that it is valid. A succession of false negative responses results in sending 5 resets in a row to the keyboard, and who knows what the keyboard would do then. Second, increase the arg in DELAY(10) into something that can give a resonably accurate result on all systems of interest. DELAY() has a guaranteed accuracy of -20..+infinity us, except at probe time has a guaranteed accuracy of -20..+20 us on all systems of interest. DELAY(1000) would be OK for the probe, but DELAY(1000) is too wasteful once the system has started. (So is DELAY(1) :-).) Third, increase the number of retries in the second loop until the error message goes away. Fourth, figure out why the total timeout retries needs or needed to be about 50 times larger for some keyboards than for others. My keyboards aren't very sensitive to timing, so this is hard for me to debug. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 03:39:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA00402 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00377 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id DAA21280; Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 03:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605251039.DAA21280@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: current@freebsd.org, ccd@stampede.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: More on kernel bcopy From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce, I tried calling fastmove from bcopy. Unfortunately, it crashed right after it loaded. I remember you mentioning that the fnsave/frstor part is only used when we call it from bcopy and an interrupt handler calls bcopy. Maybe there is a bug in there still. Here's the diff. === Index: support.s =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/i386/support.s,v retrieving revision 1.35 diff -u -r1.35 support.s --- support.s 1996/05/03 21:01:00 1.35 +++ support.s 1996/05/25 09:30:20 @@ -291,6 +291,18 @@ subl %esi,%eax cmpl %ecx,%eax /* overlapping? */ jb 1f +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + cmpl $128,%ecx + jbe slow_bcopy + + jmp slow_bcopy /* XXX take this out and see it crash */ + + call fastmove + jmp done_bcopy + + ALIGN_TEXT +slow_bcopy: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ shrl $2,%ecx /* copy by 32-bit words */ cld /* nope, copy forwards */ rep @@ -299,6 +311,9 @@ andl $3,%ecx /* any bytes left? */ rep movsb +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY +done_bcopy: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ popl %edi popl %esi ret @@ -453,6 +468,16 @@ /* bcopy(%esi, %edi, %ebx) */ 3: movl %ebx,%ecx +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + cmpl $128,%ecx + jbe slow_copyout + + call fastmove + jmp done_copyout + + ALIGN_TEXT +slow_copyout: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ shrl $2,%ecx cld rep @@ -500,6 +525,16 @@ cmpl $VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS,%edx ja copyin_fault +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + cmpl $128,%ecx + jbe slow_copyin + + call fastmove + jmp done_copyin + + ALIGN_TEXT +slow_copyin: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ movb %cl,%al shrl $2,%ecx /* copy longword-wise */ cld @@ -510,6 +545,10 @@ rep movsb +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY + ALIGN_TEXT +done_copyin: +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ popl %edi popl %esi xorl %eax,%eax @@ -525,6 +564,206 @@ movl $0,PCB_ONFAULT(%edx) movl $EFAULT,%eax ret + +#ifdef I586_FAST_BCOPY +/* fastmove(src, dst, len) + src in %esi + dst in %edi + len in %ecx + uses %eax and %edx for tmp. storage + */ +/* +LC0: + .ascii "npxproc == curproc\0" +LC1: + .ascii "support.s" + */ + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove: + cmpl $63,%ecx + jbe fastmove_tail + + testl $7,%esi /* check if src addr is multiple of 8 */ + jnz fastmove_tail + + testl $7,%edi /* check if dst addr is multiple of 8 */ + jnz fastmove_tail + + pushl %ebp + movl %esp,%ebp + subl $176,%esp + +/* if (intr_nesting_level > 0) */ + cmpb $0,_intr_nesting_level + je L6 +/* save reentrantly */ + movl %cr0,%edx + clts + fnsave -176(%ebp) + jmp L7 + +/* else { */ + ALIGN_TEXT +L6: +/* if (npxproc != NULL) { */ + cmpl $0,_npxproc + je L8 +/* assert(npxproc == curproc); */ +/* movl _npxproc,%eax + cmpl %eax,_curproc + je L6b + pushl LC0 + pushl $599 + pushl LC1 + call ___assert + addl $12,%esp +L6b: */ +/* fnsave(&curpcb->pcb_savefpu); */ + movl _curpcb,%eax + fnsave 112(%eax) +/* npxproc = NULL; */ + movl $0,_npxproc +/* } */ +L8: +/* now we own the FPU. */ + +/* + * The process' FP state is saved in the pcb, but if we get + * switched, the cpu_switch() will store our FP state in the + * pcb. It should be possible to avoid all the copying for + * this, e.g., by setting a flag to tell cpu_switch() to + * save the state somewhere else. + */ +/* tmp = curpcb->pcb_savefpu; */ + pushl %edi + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + leal -176(%ebp),%edi + movl _curpcb,%esi + addl $112,%esi + cld + movl $44,%ecx + rep + movsl + popl %ecx + popl %esi + popl %edi +/* stop_emulating(); */ + clts +/* npxproc = curproc; */ + movl _curproc,%eax + movl %eax,_npxproc +/* } */ +L7: +4: + pushl %ecx + cmpl $1792,%ecx + jbe 2f + movl $1792,%ecx +2: + subl %ecx,0(%esp) + cmpl $256,%ecx + jb 5f + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + .align 4,0x90 +3: + movl 0(%esi),%eax + movl 32(%esi),%eax + movl 64(%esi),%eax + movl 96(%esi),%eax + movl 128(%esi),%eax + movl 160(%esi),%eax + movl 192(%esi),%eax + movl 224(%esi),%eax + addl $256,%esi + subl $256,%ecx + cmpl $256,%ecx + jae 3b + popl %ecx + popl %esi +5: + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove_loop: + fildq 0(%esi) + fildq 8(%esi) + fildq 16(%esi) + fildq 24(%esi) + fildq 32(%esi) + fildq 40(%esi) + fildq 48(%esi) + fildq 56(%esi) + fistpq 56(%edi) + fistpq 48(%edi) + fistpq 40(%edi) + fistpq 32(%edi) + fistpq 24(%edi) + fistpq 16(%edi) + fistpq 8(%edi) + fistpq 0(%edi) + addl $-64,%ecx + addl $64,%esi + addl $64,%edi + cmpl $63,%ecx + ja fastmove_loop + popl %eax + addl %eax,%ecx + cmpl $64,%ecx + jae 4b + +/* if (intr_nesting_level > 0) */ + + cmpb $0,_intr_nesting_level + je L9 + +/* Restore reentrantly. */ + frstor -176(%ebp) + movl %edx,%cr0 + jmp L10 + +/* else { */ + ALIGN_TEXT +L9: +/* curpcb->pcb_savefpu = tmp; */ + pushl %edi + pushl %esi + pushl %ecx + movl _curpcb,%edi + addl $112,%edi + leal -176(%ebp),%esi + cld + movl $44,%ecx + rep + movsl + popl %ecx + popl %esi + popl %edi + +/* start_emulating(); */ + smsw %ax + orb $8,%al + lmsw %ax +/* npxproc = NULL; */ + movl $0,_npxproc +/* } */ +L10: + movl %ebp,%esp + popl %ebp + + ALIGN_TEXT +fastmove_tail: + movb %cl,%al + shrl $2,%ecx /* copy longword-wise */ + cld + rep + movsl + movb %al,%cl + andb $3,%cl /* copy remaining bytes */ + rep + movsb + + ret +#endif /* I586_FAST_BCOPY */ /* * fu{byte,sword,word} : fetch a byte (sword, word) from user memory Index: trap.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c,v retrieving revision 1.76 diff -u -r1.76 trap.c --- trap.c 1996/05/18 03:36:19 1.76 +++ trap.c 1996/05/18 11:23:39 @@ -319,6 +319,14 @@ (void) trap_pfault(&frame, FALSE); return; + case T_DNA: +#if NNPX > 0 + /* if a transparent fault (due to context switch "late") */ + if (npxdna()) + return; +#endif /* NNPX > 0 */ + break; + case T_PROTFLT: /* general protection fault */ case T_SEGNPFLT: /* segment not present fault */ /* === As it is, it will check the copy size but won't call fastmove. When you take out this line: jmp slow_bcopy /* XXX take this out and see it crash */ it should crash with fireworks on the screen right after the kernel load. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 06:09:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA18418 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com ([206.103.246.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18402; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ejc@localhost) by gargoyle.bazzle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00599; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:11:29 GMT Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:11:29 +0000 () From: "Eric J. Chet" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: dyson@freebsd.org Subject: -current panic 5/25 kernel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello I just made a kernel as of 8:30am EDT 5/25, the system paniced very quickly with no load on the system. Panic freeing held page, count=1, pindex=32(0x20) Eric J. Chet - ejc@bazzle.com - Powered by FreeBSD Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs Innovations - ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com Columbus, Ohio 43213 RM 1E222 --dmesg FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Wed May 22 21:18:54 1996 ejc@gargoyle.bazzle.com:/var/usr/src/sys/compile/gargoyle Calibrating clock(s) relative to mc146818A clock ... failed, using default i8254 clock of 1193182 Hz CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x4e4 real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 31440896 (30704K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 4 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 3 on pci0:2 ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 11 on pci0:5 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST15150W 0020" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): WIDE SCSI (16 bit) enabled. sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 4095MB (8388315 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:1:0): "QUANTUM LP240S GM240S01X 6.4" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 234MB (479350 512 byte sectors) (ncr0:2:0): "PLEXTOR CD-ROM DM-XX28 3.08" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ncr0:2:0): CD-ROM cd0(ncr0:2:0): asynchronous. cd present [326402 x 2048 byte records] (ncr0:2:2): asynchronous. (ncr0:2:3): asynchronous. (ncr0:2:4): asynchronous. (ncr0:2:5): asynchronous. (ncr0:2:6): asynchronous. (ncr0:2:7): asynchronous. vga0 rev 1 on pci0:6 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: scprobe: keyboard RESET failed (result = 0xfa) sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 5 on isa sio2: type 16550A sio3: disabled, not probed. lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 at 0x278-0x27f on isa fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface new masks: bio c0000840, tty c00300ba, net c00300ba IP firewall initialized WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. cd0(ncr0:2:0): asynchronous. From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 07:37:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA26810 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 07:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA26801 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA06413; Sat, 25 May 1996 07:37:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad keyboard reset routine? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 May 1996 20:29:54 +1000." <199605251029.UAA13162@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 07:37:25 -0700 Message-ID: <6410.833035045@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My keyboards aren't very sensitive to timing, so this is hard for me to > debug. Commit the changes to -current and we'll help you. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 09:32:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01358 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01352 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I54S8Q3X2800031O@mail.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:32:25 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA04610 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:38:11 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 18:38:11 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: something's weird with ps To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Message-id: <199605251638.SAA04610@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On a machine with a current world build of today I'm getting: toots> ps ax PID TT STAT TIME COMMAND 0 ?? DLs 0:00.00 (swapper) 1 ?? Is 0:00.00 (init) 2 ?? DL 0:00.00 (pagedaemon) 3 ?? DL 0:00.00 (vmdaemon) 4 ?? DL 0:00.00 (update) 69 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (syslogd) 75 ?? Is 0:00.00 (portmap) 78 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (ypserv) 81 ?? Is 0:00.00 (yppasswdd) 89 ?? Is 0:00.00 (mountd) 91 ?? Is 0:00.00 (nfsd) 93 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) 94 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) 95 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) 96 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) 100 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) 101 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) 102 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) 103 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) 108 ?? Is 0:00.00 (inetd) 115 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (cron) 117 ?? Is 0:00.00 (lpd) 120 ?? Is 0:00.00 (sendmail) 165 ?? Is 0:00.00 (ypbind) 175 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (rlogind) 176 p0 Ss 0:00.00 (tcsh) 191 p0 R+ 0:00.00 (ps) 169 v0 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) 170 v1 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) 171 v2 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 10:25:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04176 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apocalypse.superlink.net (root@apocalypse.superlink.net [205.246.27.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04121 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from marxx@localhost) by apocalypse.superlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04677; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:34:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: something's weird with ps In-Reply-To: <199605251638.SAA04610@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > On a machine with a current world build of today I'm getting: > > toots> ps ax > PID TT STAT TIME COMMAND > 0 ?? DLs 0:00.00 (swapper) > 1 ?? Is 0:00.00 (init) > 2 ?? DL 0:00.00 (pagedaemon) > 3 ?? DL 0:00.00 (vmdaemon) > 4 ?? DL 0:00.00 (update) > 69 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (syslogd) > 75 ?? Is 0:00.00 (portmap) > 78 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (ypserv) > 81 ?? Is 0:00.00 (yppasswdd) > 89 ?? Is 0:00.00 (mountd) > 91 ?? Is 0:00.00 (nfsd) > 93 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) > 94 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) > 95 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) > 96 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsd) > 100 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) > 101 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) > 102 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) > 103 ?? I 0:00.00 (nfsiod) > 108 ?? Is 0:00.00 (inetd) > 115 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (cron) > 117 ?? Is 0:00.00 (lpd) > 120 ?? Is 0:00.00 (sendmail) > 165 ?? Is 0:00.00 (ypbind) > 175 ?? Ss 0:00.00 (rlogind) > 176 p0 Ss 0:00.00 (tcsh) > 191 p0 R+ 0:00.00 (ps) > 169 v0 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) > 170 v1 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) > 171 v2 Is+ 0:00.00 (getty) > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > Reconfigure and build your kernel. _Marxx "I don't want to grow up, I'm a BSD kid. There's so many toys in /usr/bin that I can play with!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles C. Figueiredo Marxx marxx@superlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 10:41:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA06321 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06315; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id DAA02636 Sun, 26 May 1996 03:40:32 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605251740.DAA02636@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: try this .. panic :-( To: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 03:40:31 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This morning I discovered quite by accident .. i) insert write protected floppy ii) dd if=boot.flp of=/dev/fd0 bs=9k iii) oops .. WP errors .. pulls floppy out of drive w/o hitting ^C first iv) panic: page not present Pity it was my news server I did it on :-( michael From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 12:44:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10911 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10891; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA28584; Sun, 26 May 1996 05:42:23 +1000 Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 05:42:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605251942.FAA28584@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, imb@scgt.oz.au, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: try this .. panic :-( Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >i) insert write protected floppy >ii) dd if=boot.flp of=/dev/fd0 bs=9k >iii) oops .. WP errors .. pulls floppy out of drive w/o hitting ^C first >iv) panic: page not present This has been reported before, but I couldn't duplicate it then or now in -current. Don't use block disk devices if you value your data. I/O errors aren't reported to the application. They are only logged. Perhaps they should be reported by close(). dd would still ignore them. It doesn't even bother to close the output file explicitly :-(. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat May 25 22:32:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA05485 for current-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05458; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA03164; Sun, 26 May 1996 00:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199605260531.AAA03164@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: -current panic 5/25 kernel To: ejc@gargoyle.bazzle.com (Eric J. Chet) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 00:31:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Eric J. Chet" at May 25, 96 09:11:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello > I just made a kernel as of 8:30am EDT 5/25, the system paniced > very quickly with no load on the system. > > Panic freeing held page, count=1, pindex=32(0x20) > Try again, there was a missing piece of code in vm_fault, and I just committed it... I could get it to break regularly by setting my MAXMEM=4384. MAXMEM=8192 didn't seem to do it for me. John